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Ageia PhysX is CHEAP!

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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November 10, 2006 9:42:07 AM

All you nay sayers to this PPU from BFG have now very little to complain about the Price. Sure the 8800GTX can handle its "Quantum Physics" but just think of having a dedicated PPU that can do so much more.

how much you ask? 180$! it has now gone down 120$! im so tempted to buy one now. Just think the 8800GTX doing the rendering while we sit and watch beautiful physics.....

Here it is for 180$ no rebate no nothing Zipzoomfly charges no Taxes or shipping so 180$ out the door for US citizens.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?Product...

More about : ageia physx cheap

November 10, 2006 10:21:05 AM

They should have sold them for 40$ a piece, then they would´ve penetrated the market before nvidia and ATI would´ve been able to make a move. Spending 180 $ on a technology tree that has two competing technologies (intel with their multiple core approach and ATI/Nvidia with their GPU Physics) that both have a stronger backing just doesn´t seem smart.
November 10, 2006 11:51:36 AM

Will a current DX9 card and this Physix card be able to be a substitute for a DX 10 card? Will the combo be the same as a DirectX 10 card?
Related resources
November 10, 2006 1:45:06 PM

No. There just aren't any games out yet that use the PhysX middleware. GRAW was a poorly done, quick taste of it. I like the price now, but I'm still waiting for the games. At least one that fully uses the software so we can really see how it works. A good DX10 card is a way better investment than a PhysX card, at least for now. And you can always add it later as games become available.

They can still easily beat ATI and nVidia, and I hope they do. Those solutions remain in the lab and may never amount to much. Few regular gamers are going to buy 2 or 3 video cards, and the mobo to support it.
November 10, 2006 2:00:16 PM

Quote:
No. There just aren't any games out yet that use the PhysX middleware. GRAW was a poorly done, quick taste of it. I like the price now, but I'm still waiting for the games. At least one that fully uses the software so we can really see how it works. A good DX10 card is a way better investment than a PhysX card, at least for now. And you can always add it later as games become available.

They can still easily beat ATI and nVidia, and I hope they do. Those solutions remain in the lab and may never amount to much. Few regular gamers are going to buy 2 or 3 video cards, and the mobo to support it.

I second that
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 10, 2006 2:17:25 PM

Quote:
but just think of having a dedicated PPU that can do so much more.


Is that a fact or a personal opinion?
November 10, 2006 2:22:02 PM

Quote:
Will a current DX9 card and this Physix card be able to be a substitute for a DX 10 card? Will the combo be the same as a DirectX 10 card?


No.
November 10, 2006 2:33:01 PM

Besides, Tom's already said they are crap! So go, ahead blow your money....
November 10, 2006 3:07:05 PM

The only reason Tom's and other reviewers didn't like the card, was the same reason. No game has made use of it yet. GRAW slapped on a tiny bit of PhysX at the tail end of developement. Thus, it was unimpressive. The card has great potential but just hasn't been proven yet. At least now if games do arrive the card is in the affordable range. It's still a wait and see topic, but with dual and quad cores on the CPU now, maybe game studios will start using cores instead.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 10, 2006 3:07:55 PM

And get yourself a killer NIC and a X-Fi sound card. They make a nice trio!

(note: the X-Fi is actually worth it in certain area...)
November 10, 2006 3:10:31 PM

Wow, a $120 paper weight. :roll:
November 10, 2006 3:52:03 PM

Quote:
And get yourself a killer NIC and a X-Fi sound card. They make a nie trio!

(note: the X-Fi is actually worth it in certain area...)

Priceless... :lol: 
November 10, 2006 4:12:43 PM

The problems with GRAW go beyond physx being tacked on at the end (it uses both havok and physx simultaneously), but seems to extend to everything made with an early build of the physx engine. As this city of villans performance review shows, later builds of the physx engine when coupled with the physx card can substantially improve performance.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2828

Basically, the launch of physx was premature since the engine wasn't ready, the card was overpriced for it's usefullness and should have been on PCIe the whole time. The $120 price for the card is about right, but there's still a lack of games (especially good ones) for the card right now which continue to render it pointless.

Unreal tourmanent 2007, or maybe even unreal engine 3 looks to be the turning point for the physx card.

Also, the x-fi is hardly worthless.
November 10, 2006 4:38:53 PM

How much is Ageia paying you?

Seriously, either your terribly mis-informed and haven't looked at the actual "benefits" of the PhysX card vs the drawbacks or your getting paid for this. I'm leaning toward the latter...
November 10, 2006 5:15:55 PM

Try I've owned a physx card since they were launched, I've played with all the demos, I've done some research into how it works, and I've played with most versions of ageia's semi-public SDK up to 2.6.2. There are no drawbacks to the card (asside from having to spend money on it), just craptastic developers who tack on support at the last minute. Even then, in GRAW they've improved performance by nearly 150% in situations that heavily use the physx card. Having one doesn't get the fps any higher on average, but they no longer dip lower than when you don't have it.

In games that only use the physx engine, there will be a major performance difference between having a physx card and not having one.
November 10, 2006 5:52:58 PM

NIC? what is that?

Network Interface Card?
November 10, 2006 6:06:30 PM

Quote:
NIC? what is that?

Network Interface Card?


a waste of money just like a physics card...
November 10, 2006 6:13:31 PM

Can you just tell me what is NIC?
November 10, 2006 6:18:34 PM

Quote:
NIC? what is that?

Network Interface Card?


a waste of money just like a physics card...

How exactly does the machine you posted this on connect to the internet?
Synergy6

Edit: Just for slim142
November 10, 2006 6:19:33 PM

Quote:
Will a current DX9 card and this Physix card be able to be a substitute for a DX 10 card? Will the combo be the same as a DirectX 10 card?


You are joking right? :lol: 
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 10, 2006 6:21:47 PM

Yup Network Interface Card
Link

Pretty cool, no way you shoould pay that much. Maybe with FNApps it can become attractive! none available yet.

@ konfuzd
Quote:

Also, the x-fi is hardly worthless.


Added a small note when I wrote that if you notice.

I included it because the XFi is really not for everyone. Most people are perfectly satisfied with the on board audio. Yet if you play with headphones, don't want your ~5% cpu usage, have a good ear, etc, it is useful. Just a on the expensive side.(not worth the price for 80%+)

Killer NIC can be useful to extreme/professional gamer, just not worth the price.(for 99%)

Aegia can help sometimes, just not worth the price.

You get my point.
November 10, 2006 6:22:59 PM

Quote:
Try I've owned a physx card since they were launched, I've played with all the demos, I've done some research into how it works, and I've played with most versions of ageia's semi-public SDK up to 2.6.2. There are no drawbacks to the card (asside from having to spend money on it), just craptastic developers who tack on support at the last minute. Even then, in GRAW they've improved performance by nearly 150% in situations that heavily use the physx card. Having one doesn't get the fps any higher on average, but they no longer dip lower than when you don't have it.

In games that only use the physx engine, there will be a major performance difference between having a physx card and not having one.


It's great that you've played with the SDK since you'll soon have to be writing your own games once this failed card is not supported anymore. However, it's still not too late to sell it for $40 (Before the price drops to ZERO).
November 10, 2006 6:27:47 PM

Quote:
How much is Ageia paying you?

Seriously, either your terribly mis-informed and haven't looked at the actual "benefits" of the PhysX card vs the drawbacks or your getting paid for this. I'm leaning toward the latter...


I think he is in Ageia's marketing and sales. They get paid around 60K a year plus bonuses.

Although we may feel sorry for the people who paid full price for this card, the true losers are the people who invested money in Ageia. It's down-hill from here.
November 10, 2006 6:35:48 PM

Have you guys seen the deformable metal video that was done by Ageia ON the AGEIA card. Its so awesome, at first i agreed 300$ for a PhysX card was way too much! but now seeing the price go down and become more reasonable i was thinking into getting one. ATI and Nvidia have there own version but it going to be no where near Ageia Engine. Its a PPU, NOT a GPU like what GFX cards will use so there for one is a big difference. It was designed to run Physics not GFX cards, which are designed to render scenes.

GRAW for PC was C*rpectacular possible the worst FPS i have played in while, and so for every game released does not USE the full POTENIAL of a PPU. I mean look at the game CellFactor, the stuff possible is amazing even though the game blows. I mean you going to spend 200+ on a GFX card to EVEN RUN a Dedicated Physics card when you can spend that same money on a PCI bus card that will have so much more.

It will be, I, who will laugh at your silly ATI 2+1, and Nvida "Quantum Physics" because Ageia has been in the game far longer and has been able to work out the kinks in Drivers.

(BTW i do own an X-FI card :D  )
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 10, 2006 6:36:58 PM

euh he was talking about the 250$ Killer Nic, not just any NIC,

...I hope!
November 10, 2006 6:39:35 PM

Even if I did try to sell it, I'm not sure I could get anything for it. I didn't pay for it since it came in my xps400 I recieved as a gift so I don't feal preasured to get my money back. Besides, the first wave of physx supporting games, including UT2007, are due out in the next few months. After seeing what is possible with the SDK, I see no reason to get rid of it.

Quote:
Have you guys seen the deformable metal video that was done by Ageia ON the AGEIA card. Its so awesome, at first i agreed 300$ for a PhysX card was way too much! but now seeing the price go down and become more reasonable i was thinking into getting one. ATI and Nvidia have there own version but it going to be no where near Ageia Engine. Its a PPU, NOT a GPU like what GFX cards will use so there for one is a big difference. It was designed to run Physics not GFX cards, which are designed to render scenes.

GRAW for PC was C*rpectacular possible the worst FPS i have played in while, and so for every game released does not USE the full POTENIAL of a PPU. I mean look at the game CellFactor, the stuff possible is amazing even though the game blows. I mean you going to spend 200+ on a GFX card to EVEN RUN a Dedicated Physics card when you can spend that same money on a PCI bus card that will have so much more.

It will be, I, who will laugh at your silly ATI 2+1, and Nvida "Quantum Physics" because Ageia has been in the game far longer and has been able to work out the kinks in Drivers.

(BTW i do own an X-FI card )


Nice to see someone agrees with me. Here's a link to the videos.

http://www.ageia.com/physx/tech_demos.html

The bending metal and fluids videos are done on unreal engine 3.
November 10, 2006 6:52:55 PM

Quote:
euh he was talking about the 250$ Killer Nic, not just any NIC,

...I hope!


Whoa! I didn't know anyone made a NIC that sold for that much money! You either got to be dumb, crazy, or be doing some serious business stuff to use it. The business people probably don't care too much, as they get to write it off on their taxes, but still.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 10, 2006 7:02:14 PM

Thats a gaming network card!
you can read anand article...pretty cool technology, actually easy to understand the price of this card, lots of hardware and RD, just not worth it!
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 10, 2006 7:04:50 PM

Quote:
ATI and Nvidia have there own version but it going to be no where near Ageia Engine. Its a PPU, NOT a GPU like what GFX cards will use so there for one is a big difference. It was designed to run Physics not GFX cards, which are designed to render scenes.


Do some reasearch.

its like" PS3 and Xbox will kill any PC in gaming. PC was not design to run games!...

The 8800 and the R600 can now be called: GPGPU, general purpose GPU.
And the hardware is really appropriate to do physics, + everyone has a graphic card, developper are MUCH more likely to develop for Havoc then Aegia.

Do some research
November 10, 2006 7:15:41 PM

Ageia PhysX is CHEAP!
Revision:
Ageia PhysX is a Failure!

Ati and Nvidia has solutions that will put Ageia Phyx to shame.

Quote:
Everyone has a graphics card, developpers are MUCH more likely to develop for Havoc then Aegia.


You are correct sir

Also...

The Killer Nic is a great network card!
Revision:
The Killer Nic is not worth $250.

Read DaSickNinja's Review on the Killer Nic

Quote:
The conclusion of all things is... spend your money else where. The only people that I can see benefiting from this would be people running older single core CPU's. And there is a limit to that. My old Pentium 2 wouldn't even support the NIC, so any chance of testing on that was reduced to nil. But even if you are running, say, a AMD 3800+ 939, wouldn't the money be better spent on a better component, like a 4000+ X2, or a ATI XT1900 XT or NVIDIA 7600GT, or better, faster RAM instead?
November 10, 2006 7:30:20 PM

Quote:
ATI and Nvidia have there own version but it going to be no where near Ageia Engine. Its a PPU, NOT a GPU like what GFX cards will use so there for one is a big difference. It was designed to run Physics not GFX cards, which are designed to render scenes.


Do some reasearch.

its like" PS3 and Xbox will kill any PC in gaming. PC was not design to run games!...

The 8800 and the R600 can now be called: GPGPU, general purpose GPU.
And the hardware is really appropriate to do physics, + everyone has a graphic card, developper are MUCH more likely to develop for Havoc then Aegia.

Do some research

Word. Also, on top of that, the card run on a PCI bus, which can be a bottle-neck. Money is better spent on a new graphics card. Like the previous poster said, they might have had a shot with a $40 initial price, but it is too late now.
November 10, 2006 7:40:07 PM

For the hardware side of things, ageia has caught on with developers by offering their engine for free to any dev that will support the PPU. Havok FX doesn't have any takers AFAIK.

GPGPU's could easily be the ultimate solution for physics and given the structure of directx 10 it wouldn't be too hard to implement. The idea isn't really too different than ageia's approach since like a GPGPU, the PPU is only a generic, powerful floating point processor (though they've often compared it to cell for structure). The problem is on the software side. As of right now, the only way to use a GPU for physics is havok fx and there doesn't seem to be any interest. Unless microsoft decides to actually do something in the physics arena, it looks like the physics processing capabillities of GPU's will continue to go ignored.

On the other hand, ageia's physx engine wasn't designed to run on anything specific. It exists entirely in software and is in no way bound to the PPU. Ageia incorperated an offload engine into physx that enables it to compute various tasks on the PPU instead of the CPU. From the game's stand point, it all looks the same. If you rewrote the offload engine to use a GPGPU, it would.

Ultimately, GPGPU's will probably be chosen for direct physics with SLI/Crossfire configs becomming almost necessary for high end machines. For now, the PPU is the way to go and untill proven otherwise I will continue to own and use one.
November 10, 2006 7:44:25 PM

Aegia is (was) too small of a company that lacked the money, technology, and name to make their product worth it. This small name that no one heard of just said "Hey now! I'm gonna change the way we game, I'm gonna change the norm in gaming/computing! I'm going to beat the majors to an inevitable idea!" They don't have the power/influence to go their own way and be good at it.
So I don't know if ATI/NVidia had this plan originally anyway (though I bet they did)...They just looked at Aegia and said "ummm...yeah we're gonna release that in 4 months basically and it'll be 4 times better, people will back it, and we'll have more support. So go away"
Aegia just had a lot of hype behind a pretty poor product, then when people found that out they were just turned off, and no one will listen to them again. It doesn't matter if they revise it to be better, or get more game support...people will still look lowly upon it. First impressions are most important. I believe that in less than 2 years Aegia will be forgotten and go bankrupt.
November 10, 2006 7:45:24 PM

Quote:
Thats a gaming network card!
you can read anand article...pretty cool technology, actually easy to understand the price of this card, lots of hardware and RD, just not worth it!


OK, I stand corrected in its use, but its still way too much money.
November 10, 2006 7:54:37 PM

Quote:
Will a current DX9 card and this Physix card be able to be a substitute for a DX 10 card? Will the combo be the same as a DirectX 10 card?


no because it won't do DX10.
November 10, 2006 8:20:21 PM

Quote:
Aegia is (was) too small of a company that lacked the money, technology, and name to make their product worth it. This small name that no one heard of just said "Hey now! I'm gonna change the way we game, I'm gonna change the norm in gaming/computing! I'm going to beat the majors to an inevitable idea!" They don't have the power/influence to go their own way and be good at it.
So I don't know if ATI/NVidia had this plan originally anyway (though I bet they did)...They just looked at Aegia and said "ummm...yeah we're gonna release that in 4 months basically and it'll be 4 times better, people will back it, and we'll have more support. So go away"
Aegia just had a lot of hype behind a pretty poor product, then when people found that out they were just turned off, and no one will listen to them again. It doesn't matter if they revise it to be better, or get more game support...people will still look lowly upon it. First impressions are most important. I believe that in less than 2 years Aegia will be forgotten and go bankrupt.


Ageia's situation isn't nearly as dire as you think. They have a product that allows for realtime accurate physics simulation on a desktop computer. For engineering, realtime simulations usually involve supercomputers and other really expensive setups. With microsoft robotics studio, they can use 1 (or more) physx cards to play with a working model of their robot in a realtime virtual environment on the average workstation. This saves companies money because it's $120 rather than $10,000+ for the same result. I'm not sure if ageia intended the physx card for this purpose, but it's better than their lackluster experience with gaming.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 10, 2006 8:38:38 PM

Thanks for that post, it was informative and rather factual!

I do agree with you on most count. But I do think that with the tighter specs of DX10, implementing physic on the G80 and R600 will require the same code (even if they dont use Havoc FX). That being said, it wouldn't surprise me to see nVidia/ATi twisting some dev arm to get physic coming to us faster! Physic could make SLI/XFire really worth and bring tons of $$ to nVidia/ATI. Plus seeing how they already pay money to dev to put a The way it's meant to be played, I don't see it as a big stretch!

I did hear that Havoc has a bigger install base than aegia.
Also isn't Havoc a general physic 'software/extension' with added capacity to offload to video card???

Finally I do agree that Aegia had a good idea, ahead of it's time and without enough ressources to push it, if it would've been MS or Intel, things could be different!
November 11, 2006 9:25:00 PM

Quote:
NIC? what is that?

Network Interface Card?


a waste of money just like a physics card...

How exactly does the machine you posted this on connect to the internet?
Synergy6

Edit: Just for slim142

Please don't reply until you've read the posts above entirely

He was referring to the Bigfoot Networks Killer NIC which will run you $250...now like if you would have taken my comment in context with what was previously said then you would have known i wasn't referring to just any NIC card, i was referring to this one which is not worth your money even if you've run out of things to spend it on...
November 11, 2006 10:09:55 PM

Well yeah I knew he was talking about expensive NICs

Thx for the info thought I did it before cuz I was too curious.

AGEIA PhysX sucks, I would get it for maybe $30 :D 
November 11, 2006 10:10:40 PM

Someone else sees the light :) 

Icy18: Woo, posting tips, cheers :roll:

Synergy6
November 12, 2006 9:02:15 AM

For all you Nah sayers out there (looking at Slim142 :wink: )

Read this article

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2828&p=1

You cannot say PyshX is worthless or stupid based on facts, only on your pointless opinion!

All it takes is for the developer to actually put time into it.
November 12, 2006 9:16:34 AM

wow I'm gonna buy 2 of them and be king of the psychics hill!!!! /sarcasm
November 12, 2006 9:39:01 AM

I find it ridiculous that what is basically just a modified fx5600 can cost so much.
November 12, 2006 10:21:45 AM

Am i understanding you correctly that, while the Agea does amazing stuff, it only is supported with games that suck? Why would i want to buy something like that?

Buying that card right now is a little stupid anyway. If, and that´s a big if, Agea starts to lead the physics market, they have a monopoly. Buying from a monopolist means paying through your nose.

But as i said before, i doubt Agea will come out on top. The card may be able to do amazing things, but it has almost no market and thus there are only few game developers willing to support it. And those that do support it won´t support it to the fullest because that would mean lots of trouble if their games feature a mulitplayer mode.
November 12, 2006 10:58:06 AM

Quote:
wow I'm gonna buy 2 of them and be king of the psychics hill!!!! /sarcasm

Only until I buy 3.
November 13, 2006 1:38:59 PM

Quote:
For all you Nah sayers out there (looking at Slim142 :wink: )

Read this article

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2828&p=1

You cannot say PyshX is worthless or stupid based on facts, only on your pointless opinion!

All it takes is for the developer to actually put time into it.


Well instead of reading that article why dont you read this Is Ageia's PhysX Failing?

As shown in the article it didn't even require a PhysX card to even run the phsyics effects. I can't believe that you would really be so interested in a card that delivers performance on only very limited titles. On top of all of that nvidia and ATi are developing there own physics with Havok FX and both will be a cheaper solution that will deliver just as good of effects.

And to top all of that off with games becoming optimized for multicore cpus i'm sure you've heard of the Alan Wake demo where the quad core cpus will be doing physics calculations on one of the 4 cores. So not only will the physx card be obsolete because of quad core cpus in the future, but also because ATi and nVidia will allow people to use their old graphics cards, (i.e. x1k or 7900 series card) to do physics, they will be plenty powerful enough to handle any physics

So with that article no on really knows what a PhysX card is doing if you don't even need one to actually run it! It just goes to show that any of the cards i mentioned above will be able to easily handle physics, those cards are so many time more powerful than that measly little physX card running on the pci interface
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 13, 2006 2:28:47 PM

I totally agree with IcY18, and I think many of us tried to make that point:

It's not the technology/the idea/the hardware that make this card un-worthy almost independently of the price, it's the lack of support and the competing technologies that are on the horizon, these competing tech are back by the GIANTS of the industry so their chances of success are much higher in many people opinion.

Personally I wouldn't pay 5$ for a card that doesn't bring benefit in games I play!

If aegia succeed I will be happy for them and I'll consider the card, I guess we will know in 1 year from now!
November 13, 2006 3:52:54 PM

<SHAMELESS PLUG>
Quote:
The Killer Nic is a great network card!
Revision:
The Killer Nic is not worth $250.

Read DaSickNinja's Review on the Killer Nic

</SHAMELESS PLUG>

Hah... I love Ninja and crew. Always taking every opportunity to turn the THG forumz into an ad campaign :D . (BTW, it's kind of endearing so don't stop)

Then complaining about nVidia's hands-on ad campaigns. Priceless. :lol: 

(OK, and don't flame me, because I'm just messing around)
!