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Unfair comparison

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November 10, 2006 5:06:45 PM

I’m also a big fan of ATI, we must be honest, the Nvidia 8800 Hardware is far superior than any other graphics card on the market.
But, we also we must not compare garlic with onions!
In this fight, it cannot be one Heavy and other Medium-Heavy fighting together.
Let just wait for the R600, (just like Sonogoku, training in heaven for the big fight) :) 
What’s the point to have right now a DX10 card if there are no applications to roll on?
I think that ATI is playing well with the two feet on the ground, waiting for Windows Vista, and some games DX10 ready, and taking advantage of the last few moths of DX10 emptiness for tuning drivers…
So, fellows, lets wait and be patient.

More about : unfair comparison

November 10, 2006 7:41:20 PM

but this does not answer whether you like your mum or dad
November 10, 2006 7:52:15 PM

It's not really an unfair comparison because the X1950 XTX is what is out there right now. Those who are getting the 8800s right now are those who pay the premium for being first movers.

In return, they get solid AA/AF for the next few months, and if that is what they want, then they get the card.

Besides, when the R600 comes out, there may be a refresh in the form of a 8900 and ATI can worry about that at that time. People who want to get something now to enjoy Oblivion or whatever don't want to wait until Jan/Feb. For those who can wait because they're happy with the current setup, then we'll see what both sides have to offer in a few months.

Just keep in mind that while you (and many others) can be patient, there are lots of impulse buyers that want something right now and that has to be taken into account. It's possible that they buy now and buy an R600 also when that comes out, etc.

DX10 games won't be out in force for a very long time even after the R600 is out, so that's not really much of a consideration.

Basically, they're not exact competitors as the X1950XTX is a bit cheaper and gives slightly less performance. We'll get a much more accurate pictures once the R600 is out, but the current comparison is not completely invalid because they're the closest competitors right now.
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November 10, 2006 8:07:17 PM

It is kind of unfair. It like comparing World of Warcraft to Everquest...(New vs old, instead of World of Warcraft to Everquest 2)....but wouldn't you rather get more substance from a review comparing the new with the new?

I completely agree....I think it would be the utmost wisest decision to wait for R600 vs g80 head to head comparisons (as well as rd600 vs 680i).

But if your pockets are deep and your patience is thin by all means go for what ever makes you feel good.
November 10, 2006 8:27:40 PM

I agree with A123456.
3lfking, it would be unfair comparing WoW to Everquest as long as Everquest 2 exists. If Everquest 2 didn't exist. It wouldn't be unfair at all.

The fact that ATi has nothing in DX10 out doesn't make it 'unfair' to compare nVidia's best with ATi's best.
November 10, 2006 8:34:53 PM

Unfair? What are you, in grade school?

This is the real world. You don't wait for the competition; you leapfrog them. Maybe Intel should wait a year for AMD to catch up to 65nm? Idiota...
November 10, 2006 8:41:20 PM

Quote:
I’m also a big fan of ATI, we must be honest, the Nvidia 8800 Hardware is far superior than any other graphics card on the market.
But, we also we must not compare garlic with onions!
In this fight, it cannot be one Heavy and other Medium-Heavy fighting together.
Let just wait for the R600, (just like Sonogoku, training in heaven for the big fight) :) 
What’s the point to have right now a DX10 card if there are no applications to roll on?
I think that ATI is playing well with the two feet on the ground, waiting for Windows Vista, and some games DX10 ready, and taking advantage of the last few moths of DX10 emptiness for tuning drivers…
So, fellows, lets wait and be patient.


Do we have to go through this everytime anyone releases a new architecture (and the competition isn't ready)?

The only unfair comparison is speculation on whether unreleased hardware is better than released hardware.

I think ATI is playing the cards they were dealt... their architecture isn't ready so they aren't releasing it, not some sort of desire to wait for the cards to be used for DX10.
November 10, 2006 8:52:54 PM

Quote:
What’s the point to have right now a DX10 card if there are no applications to roll on?


The point is to be able to get decent FPS in games like Oblivion with maximum details.
a b Î Nvidia
November 10, 2006 8:54:22 PM

Quote:

The fact that ATi has nothing in DX10 out doesn't make it 'unfair' to compare nVidia's best with ATi's best.


Except for they aren't priced anywhere near the same, that's what's 'unfair'/uneven.

The proper comparison for 'heads-up' is GTS versus XTX. not the GTX which is more expensive than any other card out there (other than workstation cards).

I agree you compare what you have, but anyone thinking it's an equal comparison when putting the XTX against the GTX isn't trying to be 'fair' by any stetch of the imagination. They are in different leagues period, and priced accordingly.
November 10, 2006 9:13:12 PM

Written like a true fanboy.

1) If you don't care what has the best performance at today's games, then pick what is best at your budget or heat level, power requirement or whatever.

2) If you do care, thinking "wait" is senseless, as someone who takes the "wait" attitude will always be waiting for that next great thing to come along, and if only you wait another few months or quarters, something better WILL always come along.
a b Î Nvidia
November 10, 2006 9:31:54 PM

For point b) you miss one major point, it's waiting 'til Jan not June, and there's good reason to wait for these cards since they are selling somewhat on 'DX10' capability as well, if that's anyone's concern that can't be guaged now, especially without another solution to compare against.

So if you're only looking for DX9 performance, then sure no reason to wait too long since the performance is good, but also no need to buy day 1 when prices are above MSRP. If you've got a large LCD and the coin, the it's definitely a good time to buy for current performance, but once againly only if you're buying it for current perrformance.

However, if you're looking to spend the money as the only card you'll own for 1-2years and care about DX10 performance, then there's every reason to wait and see what that performance is, especially since the apps, games and the other card to compare to don't come out 'til next year.

Definitely shouldn't keep waiting for the next thing on the horizon, but there is enough reasons to wait for this card if you're thinking long term. What's 2 months for a card that's supposed to last you 2 years?
November 10, 2006 9:34:21 PM

This similar argument goes back to something as simple as the AMD vs. INTEL argument of the past few months... If AMD releases its next generation processor it should be compared against INTELs previous crown holder.

It is not fair because AMD does not have a current gen... Blah blah blah...

Any time you have a market leader "ATI 1950 series or NV 7950 series for instance" and a new product in the same category comes out you must gauge that newer device against the current leader. How hard is that? I could see it if we were talking about two totally different categories here, but we are not. We are talking about class leading performance graphics adapters.

In fact if the 7950GX2 series were the class leading adapter (take any fanboyism stance you want on this) then the 8800 should be compared to that as well. How else do you gauge a performance increase? There has to be a baseline for which to draw reasonable conclusions.

You see the word BASELINE was bolded and Highlighted because in this instance it carries the most weight/worth of this current discussion.

The X1950XXX and 7950XXX series both defined new performance baselines. When all fanboy comments are pushed aside you are left with facts.

I would like to see the R600 as well but ATI does not have an offering.
November 10, 2006 9:43:09 PM

I agree with the APE,

The timing involved almost forces the reasonable consumer (may be forced to purchase now anyways depending on your situation) to "wait and see". A proposed Jan release of the ATI counterpart is close enough (based upon your own threshold) to wait for the direct comparo of both DX10 devices.

But also being truthful you can not dismiss the DX9 capabilities of the cards either as they give you the FIRST hint of the cards capabilities. We will soon have a new box for us to play in called DX10. I am sure that the 8800 will establish a new BASELINE for that environment.

I am also sure that ATI will be shooting to exceed both DX9 and DX10 baselines that it sets.
November 10, 2006 10:58:02 PM

Quote:
Unfair? What are you, in grade school?

This is the real world. You don't wait for the competition; you leapfrog them. Maybe Intel should wait a year for AMD to catch up to 65nm? Idiota...


I hate to be mean (not really :twisted: ), but your a moron...don't ever post here again.

We aren't talking about this from a business standpoint. We are talking about recent reviews and how the comparison could be considered unfair.

Nvidia's most recent cheating [11/11/06]

Quote:
The big news continues to be that of the GeForce 8800. Surprisingly, we have a distasteful bit of info to pass along. We heard from two separate manufacturers yesterday information that made us step back and say What?!? Here's a quote from one of the e-mails that was all but identical to the other. One line says it all.

Furthermore NVIDIA has specifically allocated this card to certain reviewers in order to control what information is sent to the press.

As far as the GeForce 8800 reviews Jeremy noted yesterday, I didn't see a single one that came from a review site whose integrity I question; but being informed that NVidia is directly controlling review authorization for third party companies based on their desire to directly control what is and is not said seems like some strong arm stuff we've seen from them before. I guess it all goes to show you, the larger a company is, the more tempting it is for them to behave outside the moral scope of the rest of the business community.

With all this said, I can bet you won't see any more NVidia reviews here after NVidia's marketing department reads our calling a spade a spade. However, this is a nice thing about the OCC. This site is something Brian, Jeremy and I enjoy. And with our not being a profit driven site, we can speak our hearts. Call things for what they really are and not give a damn about consequences.

Questionable ethics of NVIDIA's marketing and PR departments aside, it looks like the 8800 has a lot to offer. Here are two more huge reviews that are beyond question, that Jeremy inadvertently left out along with a few new ones.


Kinda leaves a bitter flavor in your Nvidia fan boy mouth doesn't it JPack (lame name btw)


In other news...

It's great to see that we are making strides in the gpu category, and that we have a new king to the throne...but the prince (r600) has yet to be born in order to see who really deserves to take the throne. Whoever performs better will be the rightfull king.

Granted Nvidia makes the best card right now....but thats only when you compare it to previous generation video cards...where is the competition??...there is none...yet.

Ati:
Last generation: x1xxx series
Current: x2xxx series (r600)...to be released in January

Nvidia:
Last generation: GeForce 7 series
Current generation: GeForce 8 series (g80)...just released this week

Comparing the old with the new has no relevance. Current generation results are all that matters in the real world.

Let me dumb it down for you a little bit:
Choice 1) -Lets say you purchase a 07' SUV just because it is better than the competitors 06' SUV...and they havn't released an 07' model yet.
-Now lets say 2 1/2 months later the competitor finally releases their new 07' suv and it is much better than the SUV you just purchased...
They are both 07' models...but clearly you made a regretable decision by not waiting to compare the two.

Now on the other hand

Choice 2) -Lets say you purchase a 07' SUV just because it is better than the competitors 06' SUV...and they havn't released an 07' model yet.
-Now lets say 2 1/2 months later the competitor finally releases their new 07' suv and it is not as good as the SUV you just purchased...
They are both 07' models(current generation)...but clearly you got lucky because you did not wait to see if one was better than the other.

This first choice is always the wisest unless your willing to take the gamble

I sure hope that made sense to you.

The r600 series has not yet been released. So there is nothing to compare it with yet...so it would be wise to wait to see what the current generation of graphics cards have to offer.

Maybe you find that its great to compare new with old (Then new audi vs the old bmw) to show what progress the industry is making. But for real world results it means absolutely nothing until you compare the new with the new.

Enthusiasts like myself wait to see the difference between two modern technologies before we throw down $2000-$3000 on a new rig only to make a possibly regretable decision too early in the game.

This isn't about comparing nvidia's best vs ati's best atm.... (some noob is going to quote me on this...just you wait and see) its about waiting to see who offers the best CURRENT GENERATION SOLUTION.

Current Generation:
Mobo chipsets: Ati rd600
Nvidia 680i

Gpu: Ati R600
Nvidia G80

Anything outside of that category is not current generation.
*refer back to the car model I presented earlier*

~3lfk1ng
November 11, 2006 12:49:41 AM

Quote:
For point b) you miss one major point, it's waiting 'til Jan not June, and there's good reason to wait for these cards since they are selling somewhat on 'DX10' capability as well, if that's anyone's concern that can't be guaged now, especially without another solution to compare against.


I'm not missing the point at all, it just doesn't make any sense to hold out on performance you want NOW, only to pay a premium later after putting up with lower performance than (apparently some think they need) then plan to use that for 2 years.

Not just a premium but a true premium IF the card was actually worth waiting for and you adopt early, and then no games yet to take advantage of it so it just depreciates by hundreds of dollars (Edit: not really "hundreds" but at least $100 wouldn't be unusual) while you wait for some DX10 games. Then games show up, and you find that they didn't even have any decent DX10 card to develop on so you get very little out of DX10 in the beginning.

By the time you get any meaningful benefit from the card, you could have just bought a card THEN instead and would've saved so much money and time as to completely offset anything else.

It all comes back to the age-old wisdom, you don't use a crystal ball to buy a video card.
November 11, 2006 10:28:43 AM

Quote:
(...)You don't wait for the competition; you leapfrog them. Maybe Intel should wait a year for AMD to catch up to 65nm?


In more soft terms, that's the point here. NVidia will sell a new product which by the way is it's new top model and have DX10 capabilities (and ready for Vista).
AMD/ATI will prepare their own similar card and surely that won't take too long...
November 11, 2006 11:05:50 AM

Quote:
What’s the point to have right now a DX10 card if there are no applications to roll on?


The point is to be able to get decent FPS in games like Oblivion with maximum details.

Exatcly.

It still runs Dx9, but will run DX10 too. Why should it not be compared just because it has new capabilities?
November 11, 2006 12:09:49 PM

It has nothing to do with being fair or not, at least not as I see it.

In this case it's more of an evaluation of the progress being made and compare features of newer vs older generation card. This process is by nature unfair.
November 11, 2006 12:35:37 PM

I see it as there is 2 products on the market. If the competitor is behind is that the fault of the other company?

What else is there to compare it to?

Bare in mind it's also easier to chase than be chased. NV are setting the mark here.
November 11, 2006 1:27:35 PM

Meh, we can only compare what is availible.

Saying we shouldnt draw comparisons between the 8800 and the x1950 untill we see R600 is like saying we should wait for K8L or K10 to compare Intel and AMD.

ATi originally scheduled the x1800 for a few months after the 7800 - it took *months* to come out. Its possible we'll see the same with the R600.

Yeah there are no DX10 games right now, but its also the fastest DX9 part going.

Its actually competitive in DX9 benchmarks with x1950XTX Crossfire, and in the UK I can get 8800GTXs for £400, while the x1950XTX is still ~£300. That makes an x1950 Crossfire setup 50% more expensive.

The 8900GTX die shrink to 80nm or 65nm may be faster... but if I had a 7800GTX I'd be happy with it now, so I assume I'll be happy with an 8800GTX when the 8900 is out.
November 11, 2006 6:23:09 PM

It's perfectly fair.

Now, suppose it is not... What then? Would it be to blame THG for their interactive charts just because they've placed a GeForce 6200 and the Radeon X1950 XTX on the same page? Or maybe for placing a Athlon 64 2800 on the same page as a Core 2 X6800 on a CPU chart? :roll:

Please, get real!
November 11, 2006 7:03:37 PM

Quote:
It is kind of unfair. It like comparing World of Warcraft to Everquest...(New vs old, instead of World of Warcraft to Everquest 2)....but wouldn't you rather get more substance from a review comparing the new with the new?

I completely agree....I think it would be the utmost wisest decision to wait for R600 vs g80 head to head comparisons (as well as rd600 vs 680i).

But if your pockets are deep and your patience is thin by all means go for what ever makes you feel good.


well if you can sh** a next generation ATI card I'm sure someone would be happy to test it against the 8800's. But since I'm fairly certain you cant then what would you have us test the 8800's against? just curious? or should Nvidia just sell cards and have no benchmarks ??
November 11, 2006 7:37:01 PM

lol... thats possibly what hes thinking (along with the OP)... because its the only DX10 card out right now... you should compare it to nothing, only other DX10 cards, when they come out... ...nevermind DX9 performance, that isnt applicable (even if it is capable of processing DX9)... because the new card is a DX10 capable card... and no other card is, so, it cant be benched and compared then...

thats also the same as saying its unfair to benchmark a SM3.0 capable card against a SM2.0 capable card, because under SM3.0, it will experience reduced performance compared to a SM2.0 only card (and because the SM2.0 card doesnt offer SM3.0, so, you cant compare them in any benchmarks together), because of that difference... and, the same with a SM4.0 card (G80, no less)

or, its unfair to compare an x1900 series gpu to any other DX9 card, for whatever reason, or compare 6600GT PCIe performance to 6600GT AGP performance, because theyre different interfaces... or compare AMD to INTEL, because their architectures are different... or compare 10k raptor HDDs against any 7.2k HDD, because their rpms are different, and no other company has 10k capable sata HDDs either, so we should wait until other companies start producing 10k sata drives [before we start comparing raptors]... and when WD produces 15k sata HDDs in late 2008 or whenever, you cant compare them to anything, because other companies will only have just started coming out with 10k sata HDDs (and at that point, you can only compare their 10k HDDs with raptors from before 2007, so their rpms match)

when DX10 comes out, you can *almost* guarantee that the G80 wont seem as fast as it does now, wont score as high under DX10... DX9 simply just isnt as demanding, same with DX8, DX7, DX6, etc

until DX10 comes out, for all practical purposes, the G80 is only a DX9 capable card, along with every other card out now... cant even process DX10, so to speak, because it isnt available yet.
November 11, 2006 8:29:57 PM

Quote:
I’m also a big fan of ATI, we must be honest, the Nvidia 8800 Hardware is far superior than any other graphics card on the market.
But, we also we must not compare garlic with onions!
In this fight, it cannot be one Heavy and other Medium-Heavy fighting together.
Let just wait for the R600, (just like Sonogoku, training in heaven for the big fight) :) 
What’s the point to have right now a DX10 card if there are no applications to roll on?
I think that ATI is playing well with the two feet on the ground, waiting for Windows Vista, and some games DX10 ready, and taking advantage of the last few moths of DX10 emptiness for tuning drivers…
So, fellows, lets wait and be patient.
You do know that the Geforce 8800GTX is also able to play Direct X9 games, and it's performance is far greater than the X1950XTX in this. Now please, give me one reason to not compare the 8800GTX to the X1950XTX. Truthfully, the X1950XTX is a horrible price/performance card in comparison to the X1950XT or other R580 based cards. When the R600 comes out, we'll compare that to the Geforce 8800GTX's performance, and maybe you'll stop complaining as it seems you may have some sort of disliking for Nvidia.

Truth is, the Geforce 8800GTX is by far the fastest consumer graphics card on the market. I myself will not be buying it as it is no use to me until the release of either UT2007 or Crysis, and by March 2007 we'll see the Geforce 8 refresh and R600 on the market.
November 13, 2006 6:57:10 AM

Quote:
lol... thats possibly what hes thinking (along with the OP)... because its the only DX10 card out right now... you should compare it to nothing, only other DX10 cards, when they come out... ...nevermind DX9 performance, that isnt applicable (even if it is capable of processing DX9)... because the new card is a DX10 capable card... and no other card is, so, it cant be benched and compared then...

thats also the same as saying its unfair to benchmark a SM3.0 capable card against a SM2.0 capable card, because under SM3.0, it will experience reduced performance compared to a SM2.0 only card (and because the SM2.0 card doesnt offer SM3.0, so, you cant compare them in any benchmarks together), because of that difference... and, the same with a SM4.0 card (G80, no less)

or, its unfair to compare an x1900 series gpu to any other DX9 card, for whatever reason, or compare 6600GT PCIe performance to 6600GT AGP performance, because theyre different interfaces... or compare AMD to INTEL, because their architectures are different... or compare 10k raptor HDDs against any 7.2k HDD, because their rpms are different, and no other company has 10k capable sata HDDs either, so we should wait until other companies start producing 10k sata drives [before we start comparing raptors]... and when WD produces 15k sata HDDs in late 2008 or whenever, you cant compare them to anything, because other companies will only have just started coming out with 10k sata HDDs (and at that point, you can only compare their 10k HDDs with raptors from before 2007, so their rpms match)

when DX10 comes out, you can *almost* guarantee that the G80 wont seem as fast as it does now, wont score as high under DX10... DX9 simply just isnt as demanding, same with DX8, DX7, DX6, etc

until DX10 comes out, for all practical purposes, the G80 is only a DX9 capable card, along with every other card out now... cant even process DX10, so to speak, because it isnt available yet.



HAHAHA wow after this post I dont think anything else has to be said lol.
November 13, 2006 7:47:33 AM

im sorry this makes no sense

according to you
if i want to play far cry, oblivion, dark messiah or any other dx9 game and i want to play at full settings with a decent fps im not allowed to seehow the 8800 performs because its too good

Quote:
until DX10 comes out, for all practical purposes, the G80 is only a DX9 capable card, along with every other card out now... cant even process DX10, so to speak, because it isnt available yet.


yes exactly i totally agree for all purposes it is a dx 9 card right now
hmm therefore should we not compare it with dx9 cards


when the r600 is released then i beleive that the performance crown will be handed back to amd but for now Nvidia has the most powerful card on the market.

the only way it could possibly classed as unfair is that the card is twice the price as the 1950 and therefore puts it in a higher bracket but this is why performance/£ was invented and although the 1950 beats the 8800 here there are countless other cards that beat that

how can you not compare hardware that does the same job together i.e your hard drives rant. if im considering a new hard drive i would like to know just how much better a raptor is over a regular drive in order to justify the cost to myself (this isnot opening up a hard drive debate by the way) its the same with everything
November 13, 2006 7:59:36 AM

Why are we comparing these two again? Why did you have to open yet another silly thread? I'm sorry, I guess I just don't get the point of arguing semantics when the cards are what they are at the prices they are, and you'll either buy it or you won't. All these argument threads do nothing, they don't change ideas or prices. :-) The best cards out are the 8800's, second in line is the ATI X1950's and SLI with dual 7900's or 7950's can match the 8800 at around the same cost, but it's just not as good because it's still DX9.

End of argument. No need to troll. This was a stupid post.
November 13, 2006 5:16:30 PM

sorry about that... ...my whole post was meant to be completely sarcastic... basically saying, that there is no reason not to be able to legitimately and fairly compare a G80, against any other card currently available... so i gave examples of different competing hardware, all of which hopefully appeared somewhat farfetched, and out of reasonable thinking, to some extent...

in other words, im completely okay with comparing the G80 to other DX9 cards, same with all the other hardware i gave examples of.
a b Î Nvidia
November 13, 2006 5:44:26 PM

Quote:
basically saying, that there is no reason not to be able to legitimately and fairly compare a G80, against any other card currently available...


Well there is the issue of price, but as these are mostly tech comparisons not pricepoint reviews, it ineviteable that they'd be compared especially as indications of the next step in tech compared to the previous step.
November 13, 2006 5:45:49 PM

yeah
November 14, 2006 12:18:50 AM

Well compared to X1950's and 7950's the GeForce 8800's are a lot stronger, even for the price. DX10 notwithstanding. The pure power of this card will outperform DX9 cards, by a small, but still a noticeable margin. It's like comparing the PS3 and Xbox360...the PS3 really can blow away the 360, but games will look great on either system compared to a SuperNES. :-P
November 14, 2006 9:01:50 AM

lol totally missed the sarcasm thought you were being serious!

oh well it was a monday and i was tired
November 14, 2006 9:17:54 AM

lol, its okay :) 
November 14, 2006 9:54:04 AM

Quote:
Unfair? What are you, in grade school?

This is the real world. You don't wait for the competition; you leapfrog them. Maybe Intel should wait a year for AMD to catch up to 65nm? Idiota...


No need to attack anyone here. I think we know who is in grade school....
a b Î Nvidia
November 14, 2006 4:59:56 PM

Quote:
Well compared to X1950's and 7950's the GeForce 8800's are a lot stronger, even for the price. DX10 notwithstanding.


Actually no it's not, only when compared to the XTX does it even come close, comparing it to an X1950XT or GF7950GT they are far better values. Less than 1/2 the price of the GTX for more than half the performance, and even compared to the GTS the XT and GT do better. This may change if the G80 prices drop or their performance improves due to drivers, etc. But for now, you're statement doesn't reflect reality.
It's apples and oranges, and don't to pretend otherwise makes someone look silly, I really don't think it's relevant to a tech review but don't pretend they are equivalent 'value' right now.
While there is the need to compare old vs new, but it's not like they are anywhere close to the same target market nor value per $.

Quote:
The pure power of this card will outperform DX9 cards, by a small, but still a noticeable margin.


Which is the point, the performance margin is smaller than the price margin. But that too will change. The GTX and GTS have their market and the performance is undeniable, but to most people the price is also undeniable.

Quote:
It's like comparing the PS3 and Xbox360...the PS3 really can blow away the 360, but games will look great on either system compared to a SuperNES. :-P


The PS3 has less graphical capabilities than the X360 (and technically less than the Wii, but with the RSX likely pushing more fps, just not as many options), so blowing it away would need to be a function of the CPU, and right now I wouldn't say either wins in that area until there's a common platform game. Like has been mentioned before, developers say it'll be easier to make a game go from DX10 to X360 than to PS3 due to more common features of the Xenos. However it's likely that is the target is PC and console,, initially it won't matter since the baseline will be the SM3.0 level since it's shared between the Wii, X360, and PS3.

So comparing the PS3 to X360 isn't as easy as you think, especially considering one is pretty much an unknown commodity in the retail market other than the select few in Asia right now.
November 15, 2006 12:48:43 AM

Pretty much nothing you just said had any meaning. I think this is trolling. But hey, you have 12k posts so you're an expert right?
a b Î Nvidia
November 15, 2006 1:45:59 AM

So when someone says something you don't agree with that contradicts your statements, regardless of whether it's factual or not you think it's trolling. :roll:

Let me clrify it for you since you didn't get it, your statements have no basis in facts and, if anything the facts would completely contradict what you say, not the first time I might add.

You can hide behind post count, but it's the facts you lack, not the number of posts.
November 15, 2006 2:01:10 AM

It's funny you say that, I too read TGH every day and look at the VGA charts frequently...I guess I'm not sure where you're getting your info. I was pretty much saying that everything you said had no value and made little sense. Way to repeat me and say I'm doing it.
November 15, 2006 4:14:04 PM

Ryan, Ape,

Mine is bigger than both of yours ;) 

But that is an "UNFAIR COMPARISON". ;) 
November 16, 2006 5:10:46 AM

Mature. I kinda have to doubt it. But I'll let you think what you want since there aren't very many girls that read TGH. :-P
November 16, 2006 5:31:37 AM

Have you ever seen a GreatGrapeApe try to hide behind 12k posts? Possibly 40k would do it, but 12 wont do much to hide the GreatGrapeApe.
November 16, 2006 5:37:36 AM

Shows what he's been doing with the last few years of his life. We need to get him some help, maybe check him into CFAA. Computer Forum Addicts Annonymous. I'm taking a month vacation to get some work done around the house and a breather. I'm taking business courses and it's killin me. All summer I was working part time, cleaning the house cuz my gf worked 12 hr shifts at the hospital like 5 days a week (the money's great though), and in college half time. I need a breather!
a b Î Nvidia
November 16, 2006 7:20:31 AM

Quote:
Shows what he's been doing with the last few years of his life.


Yeah, whatever dude, my life's probably more active and full than 2 of yours.
Kinda helps when you have a good enough job to be able to post from work a your leisure, no part-time crap.
But I'm sure you have some excuse...

Quote:
I'm taking a month vacation to get some work done around the house and a breather. I'm taking business courses and it's killin me. All summer I was working part time, cleaning the house cuz my gf worked 12 hr shifts at the hospital like 5 days a week (the money's great though), and in college half time. I need a breather!


Sounds like you need the help dude. :tongue:

BTW, last night I went and picked up the SkiVan, Watched the Bruins game at the pub with friends and then played a hockey game at the University scoring a goal and 2 assists. Really don't need any avice from your sorry a$$. :roll:
November 16, 2006 7:31:15 AM

I pay $400 a week in child support by a wife I mentioned the word divorice to and who took everything from me by pursuing the divorice first...and that's not that half of it.

Yet, you're the one who appears to be in need of an attitude adjustment. LOL :-)

You're sitting here bragging about making a goal in a hockey game...LOL Here buddy, I'll help you with your self-esteem problem. You rule!!! K? OMG, guess what everyone. I won a game of StarCraft against my friends kid! I RULE! Who cares about a game? I don't even watch sports. They're inflated. 500 years from now nobody will even remember or care who the hell Gretzky was, and I'm sure he's better than you. Some of us work for our money and actually contribute something. You've probably had an easy life and I applaud you. But the least you could do is be a little more empathitic to those that seek to overcome and stay positive. You might have some growing up to do and that's ok. We all get wiser as we grow older.
a b Î Nvidia
November 16, 2006 7:50:05 AM

Yawn!

You don't watch sports, you 'work' for your money (how noble of you, mine is made from moondust), but obviously you're not smart to get a better job. As for you contributing something, what? No evidence of your contributions around here.

You wanna start commenting on people's use of their time here while you obviously squandered yours!

As for being empathetic, WHY THE FAQ SHOULD I BE?
I'm empathetic or sympethetic or even concerned for people who deserve it, not prats like you! :roll:

Seriously, considering all YOUR baggage, a better question would be "WTF are you doing here!?!" Fix your own life first before you try and tell others they need to fix theirs, let alone their computers. :roll:

Sounds like you've got alot of growing up to do, especially for posting such trash.
November 16, 2006 3:09:11 PM

Ryan,

I expected as much from you... Had you paid a little attention to my post you would have obviously seen the humor in it.

You and the Ape were having what we call around here an E-p3nis match.

I called you on it, so you would see how funny it was.

You were not "aware" enough to even recognize this. The APE was at least aware enough to recognize the humor in my reply.

Then on top of adding how mature I am... You proceed to tell the whole world your life story in a totally open forum. How very mature of you.

Thanks for your contribution... I needed a laugh this am :) 

I wish you well in your endeavors and hope you get the break you so obviously need.

Oh and by the way... I would never discount someone else's work... They have a job, be it a janitor or a rocket scientist. This is the reason I applaud you.. Having a job and going through college is a good achievement. I would dare to guess that the person that works their way through ANYTHING would have a much greater understanding/passion for what they do.

The Ape may have worked his way to a position able to take advantage of differing benefits.

Have a great day and enjoy your time off. It would be nice if I could take a month off ;) 
November 16, 2006 3:10:13 PM

My life is fine. I'm working on it. You don't know me, my life is something of a novel, and people can hardly believe the things I tell them. I've been in a plane wreck, am adopted, I've been neglected, divoriced, and I'm still here with a smile on my face and chugging along. This is the fifth state I've lived in, my folks moved a lot. I fell a class short in HS at the best HS in Indiana. A couple years later I got high honors on the GED. I'm not sure how my joke turned into a brash of insults...maybe you're wound tight. For someone with a sit down job and a college education (which you never even mentioned you had, we'll assume) I wonder how it is you can get paid for typing in forums at your job and not even know how to spell the word sympathetic. My life doesn't need a "fix." Life goes as it will. The best one can do is try to guide it. Apparently you're a spoiled kid, or you have yet to run into any hardships that are beyond your control. I explained that I was on vacation over the holidays. I busted my ass and took accelerated classes to get them out of the way so I could do that. It frees me up to get caught up on some things, relax a bit, and find time to spend with my girlfriend since she works a demanding job. The degree I'm going for is a marketing degree in entrepreneurship. Spell that one moondust. You're pretty easy to control, it's no wonder you're a sports fanatic. You better stick to physical competition, since your anger seems to get the better of you, and your brain just can't keep up. If it's slander you're looking for bud, you've come to the right place. When it comes to words I wouldn't put you in my mouth to chew you up and spit you back out. Putting a man inside a mouth is more your thing. I'm not sure why I need to explain myself to you, maybe it's just to help you wisen up and realize the world doesn't revolve around you and how many goals you scored in a game.
November 16, 2006 3:16:38 PM

Ches, he's the one that wipped out his little cocker spaniel and flailed it around for all to see. Maybe you missed the fact that I was JOKING, and we all kind of "waste" our time. Next time you decide to choose a side when you're so valiantly being the forum jester, you'll actually think a bit more before you chime in. :-) I don't need you to tell me that the world needs janitors too. I've done my share of back breaking labor without any significant gain. I put bread on the table for a kid that wasn't even mine. I didn't mention I had a stepson. What have you done lately? Who cares if some strangers read about a stranger's personal life. You don't know me and it really doesn't matter. It's a virtual world. I type because I want to, not because I honestly care about what someone online thinks of me. :-) I know who I am. Next time you try sarcasm on me, make sure you're a friend first. If you want to kid around, I'm all for it. I don't side with ANYONE in forums. I think for myself.
November 16, 2006 3:36:52 PM

Why so OVERLY defensive?

Why so worried about what I say in a virtual world/forum?

It seems you have already emotionally attached yourself to what I have said.

I applauded you and you picked up only on the negative. So maybe I question the smile on your face.

The Ape has been the Ape on these forums for some time now (not speaking of post count). He is who he is. I have seen many a time when the Ape has helped people (especially around the graphics forums). He has contributed. Therefore I provide a little room for a bit of E-respect. Take what you will from that.
!