AMD having problems....how will they fight back?

[SyPheR]

I'm just wondering...Nvidia allready caused heavy financial damage on AMD's company called ATI and say that ATI is throwing in the towel. >>> http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4891

If this is true, Intel could make it really hard for AMD on the financial course. AMD missed out on the dual core market while Intel is allready stunting with prices and showing of their quad core. Will this be the financial dead penalty for company AMD/ATI? How will they be able to fight back....Anyone got a clue? I hope my point of view is wrong...

 

[jammydodger]

I dont think AMD are doing as badly as you seem to be suggesting, the main problem they are having at the moment is meeting demand. Dell are eating up a large number of AMD's chips now that they have signed a deal [url = Inquirer]http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33462]Inquirer article[/url]. If AMD are having trouble meeting demand then I would assume they are selling lots of chips and thus doing very well.
AMD's profits for the forth quater of 2005 was $96Million..doesn't sound to bad to me? They have also just moved to the 65nm process which shoul make production costs cheaper.

I dont know why Nvidia are suggesting that ATI is throwing in the towel, by all accounts the R600 (ATI's DX10 graphics chip due for release in Q1 2007) is faster than the G80.

 

[papi4baby]

AMD is fine, they are just going thruh alot of stuff right now. They will be ok, dont worry. They didn't get to where they are today by always having the performance crown. They have always been the underdog but have survived. AMD is here to stay. And ATI has an awnser to the 8 series nV card coming up in like 4 to 5 months supposably.

 

[godman]

yeah jammydodger is right.

Its like tennis, if you bring something new out the other will bring something out and the ball is back on your side and however hard you try to get your opponent out they will always still fight back with something new. It's intels turn right now (core uarch) and AMD has had its turn before (athlon 64, K8 uarch) it just has to get ready for annother go to have a hold of the crown.


until the other wins....


....not sure about what I said above because in tennis one person wins at the end so i guess it wasn't a very good metaphor was it?.... :lol:

 

[SyPheR]

Yes, you might be right indeed about AMD sales (maybe they should build another factory?) but the reason why Nvidia is saying this ''ATI throwing the towel'' is that they allready released their DX10 card and are allready working on new DX10 cards so they will be able provide the 8800gtx much cheaper by the time ATI releases their 1st DX10 card. Also will nvidia release a much faster card soon after ATI´s first DX10 card comes to show.

But I do hope you are right about AMD having too many demands Still they have to come with a good quad core responce.

 

[shinigamiX]

IMO, "fighting back" isn't as urgent as it seems. Even when Intel's NetBurst was getting pummeled by K8 Pentiums still sold well. AMD's made a name for itself, and the average consumer won't know that a Core 2 Duo performs better. Even though their spending is a bit high recently, what with acquiring ATI and building new Fabs and all, but it will definitely pay off a few years down the line. Don't forget, it wasn't until 2003 that K8 was introduced, and AMD's been around since 1969. They've survived worse.

 

[fatcat]

IMO, "fighting back" isn't as urgent as it seems. Even when Intel's NetBurst was getting pummeled by K8 Pentiums still sold well. AMD's made a name for itself, and the average consumer won't know that a Core 2 Duo performs better. Even though their spending is a bit high recently, what with acquiring ATI and building new Fabs and all, but it will definitely pay off a few years down the line. Don't forget, it wasn't until 2003 that K8 was introduced, and AMD's been around since 1969. They've survived worse.

I pretty much agree with this. Also, things might seems worst since AMD was on top for the last 2 - 3 years till C2D come out. Seeing them taking the second sit again certainly has an influence on the preception people have of them but it might not reflect the reality. I might be wrong on this since I don't have hard numbers, it's just my feelings.

 

[qcmadness]

I'm just wondering...Nvidia allready caused heavy financial damage on AMD's company called ATI and say that ATI is throwing in the towel. >>> http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4891

If this is true, Intel could make it really hard for AMD on the financial course. AMD missed out on the dual core market while Intel is allready stunting with prices and showing of their quad core. Will this be the financial dead penalty for company AMD/ATI? How will they be able to fight back....Anyone got a clue? I hope my point of view is wrong...

If you know what happened to AMD when P4C came out, you will not start this thread.

 

[kaleb_zero]

To say that ATi is 'throwing in the towel' is such a bold claim to make. AMD has said in numerous press releases that they have an interest in maintaining ATi's leadership in discrete performance graphics. On top of that, the logic that ATi is throwing in the towel because nVidia just released their first DirectX10 GPU to market before ATi is totally flawed because ATi has already designed and brought to market a DirectX10 GPU... The Xbox360's Xenos GPU. R600 will in fact be ATi's second generation of DirectX10 chips, and they wont be comming to market with an inferior product. I hate threads like this, so much speculation.

 

[SyPheR]

To say that ATi is 'throwing in the towel' is such a bold claim to make. AMD has said in numerous press releases that they have an interest in maintaining ATi's leadership in discrete performance graphics. On top of that, the logic that ATi is throwing in the towel because nVidia just released their first DirectX10 GPU to market before ATi is totally flawed because ATi has already designed and brought to market a DirectX10 GPU... The Xbox360's Xenos GPU. R600 will in fact be ATi's second generation of DirectX10 chips, and they wont be comming to market with an inferior product. I hate threads like this, so much speculation.

You could be right on that yes. The hardware is capable of it. Right now it's basically DirectX9c. They just need to patch the software to DirectX10 level shaders I guess. And indeed it's a very hard speech nvidia is producing there. I wonder if they can make their statement true.

Well, after reading all these posts I'll guess AMD doesn't have to worry afterall....I'm glad to hear this. We'll just wait and see when they will be able to strike back on Intel as for now Intel is the top of the cream atm.
It's like the song from snoop...Ups and downs round and round

 

[BaronMatrix]

To say that ATi is 'throwing in the towel' is such a bold claim to make. AMD has said in numerous press releases that they have an interest in maintaining ATi's leadership in discrete performance graphics. On top of that, the logic that ATi is throwing in the towel because nVidia just released their first DirectX10 GPU to market before ATi is totally flawed because ATi has already designed and brought to market a DirectX10 GPU... The Xbox360's Xenos GPU. R600 will in fact be ATi's second generation of DirectX10 chips, and they wont be comming to market with an inferior product. I hate threads like this, so much speculation.

I actually think he meant "throwing in the towel" about Intel chipsets. SUposedly R600 will be the last one. ATi can still sell more chispets as AMD supply increases, people will still want ATi chipsets for Intel. There is at least one mobo due next month.

 

[papi4baby]

IMO, "fighting back" isn't as urgent as it seems. Even when Intel's NetBurst was getting pummeled by K8 Pentiums still sold well. AMD's made a name for itself, and the average consumer won't know that a Core 2 Duo performs better. Even though their spending is a bit high recently, what with acquiring ATI and building new Fabs and all, but it will definitely pay off a few years down the line. Don't forget, it wasn't until 2003 that K8 was introduced, and AMD's been around since 1969. They've survived worse.

Pummeled is what C2D is doing to K8, since the only thing that K8 wins is at memory(AKA the BS HT link). But if i remember corrently Netburst VS K8 was more of a fight, since Intel would actually win some of the test, while AMD would win most of the test. Yeah K8 is supperior to Netburst, but it was not pummeling Netburst.

 

[shinigamiX]

Here is a very interesting take on things.

In July of this year Intel launched Core 2 Duo and then it backed this superb dual-core processor up with the quad-core Core 2 Extreme QX6700 in November. In a matter of months gamers switched from AMD to Intel. However, they had a problem, as LGA775 motherboards used either an Intel or ATI chipset, and therefore could not support nVidia graphics cards in SLI. When AMD bought ATI it put the kibosh on the ATI-Intel relationship, reducing the options still further.

Hardcore gamers could run a Core 2 Duo on an Intel 975X motherboard provided they were content to use Radeon X1950 XTX graphics, but that also changed this week when nVidia launched its GeForce 8800 GTS and GTX. These stunning new graphics cards have moved the goalposts so far, that anyone building a gaming PC would be desperate to combine a Core 2 Duo and GeForce 8800, which means that they also want an nForce 680 SLI motherboard which leaves AMD and ATI in the lurch.

If you follow that line of thinking then AMD is going to sink without trace, although the ATI R600 graphics chip may change part of that picture early next year.

Except that it’s all nonsense.

The sort of gamer who moves from Athlon 64 X2 to Core Duo and has the £400 or £500 for a GeForce 8800 is a tiny percentage of the PC market. One in a thousand perhaps, or maybe one in ten thousand.

There’s no doubt that Intel has reclaimed the high-end of the PC market and it will likely turn the tide in the server market, which means that AMD has no choice apart from going mainstream. That means a PC with acceptable performance, integrated graphics and a low price, which is territory that has been dominated by Intel with its Celeron and ludicrously named Extreme graphics.

AMD hopes to be saved by some fortuitous timing - Windows Vista is about to hit the streets. The Premium version with the 3D Aero interface puts a heavy demand on your graphics and AMD thinks that it has the edge on Intel in this department. There’s no problem getting ATI graphics to run Aero but Intel has all of its money backing a single horse in the shape of the 965G chipset. Not the Q965, which uses the feeble GMA 3000 graphics core (an update of GMA 950) but the G965 which uses the all-new GMA X3000 core. Make no mistake about it, GMA X3000 will run Windows Vista but AMD is betting that the punters will see the difference when they run Vista in its graphics.

Where will you buy a PC with AMD/ATI silicon? Well, the channel is complaining that it can’t get AMD processors because AMD is shipping everything that it can make to Dell, AMD’s new best friend. Dell has reason to be hacked off with Intel after the fiasco of Pentium 4 and it was none too pleased that Intel decided to jump into bed with Apple.

So let’s recap.

Earlier this year most budget PCs were powered by Intel while AMD ruled the world of gaming but in 2007 AMD expects that Windows Vista will turn that situation on its head thanks to the power of its integrated graphics.

On paper that argument makes perfect sense but ask yourself this. Based on your personal experience of what people will put up with - think CRT monitors flickering at 60Hz, overhead lights reflecting on the screen like crazy and a screen that is full of toolbars and other Spyware infested junk – do you really think that the punters will notice that Aero isn’t quite as slick as it ought to be? I have a horrible feeling that AMD is putting far too much faith in the buying public.

I also have a horrible feeling AMD is putting too much faith in Vista and the power of their IGP - if Intel embraces Nvidia's IGP solution even that advantage will disappear.

 

[BaronMatrix]

I also have a horrible feeling AMD is putting too much faith in Vista and the power of their IGP - if Intel embraces Nvidia's IGP solution even that advantage will disappear.

Everythng is always dramatic when comparing AMD/Intel. Intel has two choices, go with their own lower perf IGPs or adopt nVidia or ATi. If they do the first the experience for Vista may not be so thrilling ( Imean Intel has been creating Extreme Graphics for years that always sucked worse than the specs) which will push OEMs to AMD/ATi.

If they go with nVidia, they can't sell their own chipsets - unless they make a deal to integrate the IGP into 975/965.

As a marketing tool for selling IGPs, saying the other guy's sucks and being right is good.

 

[WR]

And ATI has an awnser to the 8 series nV card coming up in like 4 to 5 months supposably.

That's an eternity in the graphics business. Has ATI traditionally been this late in announcing a competing product?

Right now [AMD] cant keep up with demand, so how bad can it be?

It would seem to defy common sense that a company can be in trouble yet see consumer demand outpacing supply. But in the chip business that's exactly what has set Intel apart. You can certainly design the highest performing, hardest-to-manufacture CPU of the time. But when you can't get any yields because the fabs are hopelessly behind, that's going to adversely affect your return on investment. That's why so many others in the past have left the chip business. There's a fine line in design complexity which ultimately revolves around available process technology.

 

[BaronMatrix]

Pummeled is what C2D is doing to K8, since the only thing that K8 wins is at memory(AKA the BS HT link). But if i remember corrently Netburst VS K8 was more of a fight, since Intel would actually win some of the test, while AMD would win most of the test. Yeah K8 is supperior to Netburst, but it was not pummeling Netburst.

I think pummeling means having a 2.2GHz X2 beating a 3.2GHz PD. CHeck any benches. Core 2 is only 3-400MHz better than X2, meaning that a 2.8GHz X2 is needed to beat a 2.4GHz Core 2.

 

[shinigamiX]

That's a moot point when after three years you're still topping out at 2.8GHz and they reach 2.93 with the very first release. There is no such thing as a 2.8GHz X2 anyway.

 

[Bluefinger]

AMD and ATI are pretty strong... despite them not being on top of the game. AMD, compared to Intel, have been rather stable in the face of C2D, acting accordingly by making the right decisions and proceeding with their own roadmap. Of course, AMD has had its hiccups, but I think compared to Intel's staff layoff hiccup, I can be sure that AMD doesn't have much to worry about. As long as they can sell lots of their processors whilst providing decent performance for the punters, AMD will make enough money to allow them to bring a new performance-crown holder into the midst. Plus, with ATI, they cannot afford to stop the Radeon range, doing so would destroy them and drag AMD down with them. ATI, with all the extra funds from the merger, will use that money to expand their capabilities, by producing better IGPs and chipsets to provide AMD with the platform they need in order to compete with Intel. As long as AMD/ATI can provide not only decent processors and graphics card, but also a decent platform, then Intel will also have to work harder in order to keep up. All in all, there's nothing going wrong, it's all just healthy competition between two companies.

 

[Heyyou27]

There is no such thing as a 2.8GHz X2 anyway.

The FX62 does come clocked at 2.8GHz, does it not? Or do you mean the X2 line of CPUs? :?

Either way, AMD will bounce back eventually; Intel has been lazy for the last 3 years and now they're back up and moving, bring some excellent new products and serious competition for AMD.

 

[shinigamiX]

I meant the X2 line of CPUs.

 

[orsino]

AMD has a significant advantage over Intel when it comes to marketing and nomenclature.

The AMD quad is known as:

4x4

Quadfather

etc...

The Intel Quad is known as:

Core 2 Extreme. Ya. So is an Intel Dual. So what's the difference? Couldn't they have come up with another name for the damn thing? No, let's come up with a first-in-market breakthrough and name it so nobody knows that it's there.

DUH!

Dear Intel. My marketing resume is in the mail. Signing bonus: One million US Dollars and a few dozen QX6700s OCd to 5GHz!

:lol:

 

[WR]

If you are an enthusiast or in the business of SMP, you'll know what quad-core means no matter what it's called. If you aren't, then you shouldn't be purchasing either Kentsfield or 4x4, should you?

AMD is marketing as if it has the upper hand on the release of 4x4. It is a good platform, and certainly AMD in the future could have the better performing system, but right now that's simply not the case because they lack the processors to go with it.

 

[orsino]

If you are an enthusiast or in the business of SMP, you'll know what quad-core means no matter what it's called. If you aren't, then you shouldn't be purchasing either Kentsfield or 4x4, should you?

Well, by that logic, GM should call its Corvette the Aveo since anyone with the bucks to buy it will know the difference. That runs counter to every basic marketing tenet taught in the first week of college!

:lol:

 

[Grinch123456]

If you are an enthusiast or in the business of SMP, you'll know what quad-core means no matter what it's called. If you aren't, then you shouldn't be purchasing either Kentsfield or 4x4, should you?

AMD is marketing as if it has the upper hand on the release of 4x4. It is a good platform, and certainly AMD in the future could have the better performing system, but right now that's simply not the case because they lack the processors to go with it.

Well, from what I've heard, Barcelona is going to be similar to what Intel did to Core to Core 2, an incrimental increase. It's going to increase performance a bit, sharpening AMD's competative edge so to speak. Here is the source.

EDIT: Extraneous tag removed

 

[orsino]

Well, from what I've heard, Barcelona is going to be similar to what Intel did to Core to Core 2, an incrimental increase. It's going to increase performance a bit,

I dunno, dude. Core 2 is one hell of an incremental increase. That's a damn rocketship. :lol: