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Did I kill my motherboard/cpu?

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November 12, 2006 4:33:50 PM

Hi All:
I recently discovered my cpu was running too hot after installing IE 7 and running into some compatibility problems. So I uninstalled IE 7 and rolled back the O.S. to a previous known good operating date and it worked fine. However, since the CPU had been running at 97% and 70C+ when I installed IE 7, I decided I should re-do the heatsink/fan installation and after doing so, my computer will not boot at all. No fans, nothing on the monitor. I do have a little light indicating standby power to the board, but that's it. I wore an anti-static wrist strap while working in the computer and used the new prescribed method of applying Artic Silver compound (a narrow strip running up the center of the processor). The fan/sink assembly is solidly fastened to the motherboard. I checked all wiring connections and switched to different known-good memory sticks. I removed all PCI cards and disconnected the cd-rom drive....still no boot.
My system: Intel 945GNTL m-board, Pentium D 840 (3.2 Ghz), (2) Kingston 553 Mhz DDR2 memory sticks, Antec Sonata II case with 450W Smart Power 2 PSU, Media Center 2005 O.S.
If anyone has any suggestions to fix the problem, I would sure appreciate it! I am new to computer building and don't have the knowledge or equipment to test the voltages on the PSU, but it was working fine before the heatsink/fan work. If I need to replace the m-board or CPU that's fine, but I sure would like to know what's wrong so I don't needlessly buy a m-board, cpu or PSU!

newnerd

More about : kill motherboard cpu

a c 99 à CPUs
November 12, 2006 5:17:03 PM

70c is way too hot! Is the heatsink fan turning? and sending an RPM signal to the M/B? If you get it to boot consider a good aftermarket CPU cooling solution your present solution isn't doing the job!



Quote:
and used the new prescribed method of applying Artic Silver compound (a narrow strip running up the center of the processor).


The only way to know if that gives full coverage is to pull the heatsink and check if the coverage is all the way across, I always apply a thin even layer [thinner than notebook paper but thick enough you can't see through it], on the die or heatspreader itself and then seat the heatsink on it, I've never yet not gotten full coverage like that.
November 12, 2006 5:43:40 PM

Hi Ryan:
Thanks for your input. My original application of Artic Silver compound was a small drop in the center of the computer. When I removed the heatsink/fan due to the recent discovery of overly hot operation, I saw that the compound had spread all over the top of the CPU and was probably too thick. It left enough to cover both the base of the heatsink/fan and the cpu. So, I researched on the Artic Silver website and they have an illustration showing the method I described. I sized the image on the screen to the size the cpu and applied a strip the same width. When I still didn't get a boot, I pulled the heatsink/fan and it had made a neat little circle covering the top of the cpu but still seemed too thick so I did it again with a strip the same width but thinner and still get no boot. I'm starting to think I may have damaged the pins on the motherboard installing the CPU. It seemed to fit in easily but I may have moved it slightly as I released the cpu and bent some pins......who knows. Unless someone has some other ideas I will probably replace the M-board. I don't think the CPU would have been damaged if I mis-handled the installation would it? That would leave the motherboard as the likely problem?

newnerd
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a c 99 à CPUs
November 12, 2006 7:31:43 PM

Its easy enough to pull the cpu and see if the pins are bent, I've never bent any pins myself, but pulled a cpu the other day on an upgrade and the cpu didn't seem to want to come out of the socket and its pins were bent, about 4 of them to be exact, I took a pair of forcepts and very, very, carefully straightened them.


Any Thermal Compounds purpose is to fill the Microscopic imperfections between the CPU die and the heatsink contact point, the less it takes to do that, the better, however full even coverage all the way across is required.

Too much thermal compound tends to insulate rather than conduct the heat.
November 12, 2006 7:52:52 PM

First, I wouldn't expect the CPU running too hot to cause compatibility problems, since the CPU should just throttle itself slower. Also, your CPU doesn't have pins, being LGA775, it just has little pads. The fragile parts are in the socket on the MB -- the 775 little spring-loaded metal contacts. Take a bright flashlight and a magnifying glass and carefully examine the socket, looking for any bent/depressed contacts. If you find one, you can try to very gently bend it back into place with one or two toothpicks (round ones with pointy ends, not rectangular ones).
November 12, 2006 8:09:01 PM

Hi Mondoman:
The problems were caused by IE 7 not being compatible with Google and causing the computer to go bananas and start using 97% of cpu capacity. Up 'til then the CPU had never been that heavily utilized. That's when I discovered the high temp prob. Prior to that it had run 45 idle to 55 doing my normal stuff. There are hundreds of posts on the IE Explorer 7 Newsgroup daily about the problems IE 7 has caused due to incompatible add-ons and software. I don't think the Pentium D 840 throttles down til around 85C. I'll try your suggestion about checking the pins on the motherboard........don't know if my old eyes and hands can handle that kind of delicate work tho lol!

newnerd
November 12, 2006 8:13:17 PM

Try resetting your CMOS for the heck of it.

I'm afraid you might need to bring your rig to someone that happens to have spare parts to narrow down your problem. Spare powersupply, mb (with your socket), etc.

I just faced this issue with my Asus a7n8x and it turns out I must of been too hard on a trace with the motherboard in its tray pushing down the new heat sink clip. :-\

Let us know what you find..
November 12, 2006 8:28:56 PM

Hi Sypil:
You may be right, after 4 re-installs of the heatsink/fan and the force necessary to get the fasteners to click in place, I may have done in the motherboard too. If I don't get anything figured out, I'll probably start by ordering a new motherboard as that is cheaper than going to an expert to find out if it's damaged. For about $100 I could step up to an Intel G965 board that would then be upgradable to a Core 2 Duo in the future, so it wouldn't be that awful to buy one. I have a Core 2 Duo on my homebuilt Viiv computer and it's unbelieveable. Runs at 36C while recording a tv show, running a Norton system scan and sending a recorded movie to the LR tv while I'm simultaneously downloading Window Updates and I didn't even know it when the Norton Scan started!

newnerd
November 13, 2006 4:05:05 PM

Hi All:
Most of the comments to my question have involved the proper installation of the heatsink/fan and don't seem to address the failure of the computer to turn on and boot. I have been googling for suggestions for failure to boot problems and almost all the results suggest I may have a power supply problem since I get no boot, no fans, no power on indicator on the front of the computer. I wouldn't think my power supply would fail in less than 3 months but from what I've read, that would be a distinct possibility........more likely than motherboard or cpu failure it seems. So, I have a problem report submitted to Antec RE the computer not turning on and hopefully they may be able to help me zero in on the problem. For all I know it may even be a failed on/off switch on the case or on the power supply! That would be less expensive to fix than replacing the cpu or motherboard.........I have my fingers crossed!
November 14, 2006 3:05:44 AM

Hi Sypil:
Thanks for the suggestion. I heard back from Antec about the computer not turning on and they had a simple way to check to see if the switch was working. They suggested just switching the "reset connector" and the "power connector" because they operate the same. I tried that and still didn't get any power to the fans, pwr led etc. After informing Antec of that, they said they would replace the defective power supply. So in a couple of weeks after they get mine and send me a new one everything will work fine. Uh huh. I hope they are right but I don't believe in coincidences and the fact that the power supply worked fine until I turned it off and unplugged it to re-do the heatsink/fan and then it didn't work when turned back on still suggests to me it is probably the motherboard or cpu. Maybe I'll get lucky and a new power supply will solve it. Had to remove the cd/dvd drive and floppy drive and all the face plates in the 5" exterior bays to pull the power supply out the front of the case.........probably break those putting them back later LOL!
November 14, 2006 3:20:21 AM

Re-Hi Sypil:
I forgot to respond to your suggestion to test for proper grounding and power levels. I'm not sure it would be worth the expense of buying even a cheap tester for that since if the power supply fans don't come on, the power supply probably isn't out-putting any power at all????? At first I thought it might be because the standbye LED was lit on the motherboard, but that could come on with battery power when I push the power switch and not be drawing from the power supply? I didn't think the PSU circuitry would allow it to output power without the fans coming on?
November 14, 2006 4:04:12 AM

70-80C will not permanently damage your CPU. It wouldn't recomend letting run like that all the time but your CPU should shut itself down before cuasing permanent damage.

Did you make sure that your fan is free spinning and is still pluged in? Once I took my comp to a friends house and it wouldn't start. It seems that a wire was keeping the fan from spining and consequently the computer refused to turn on.
November 14, 2006 6:30:09 AM

Quote:
70-80C will not permanently damage your CPU. It wouldn't recomend letting run like that all the time but your CPU should shut itself down before cuasing permanent damage.


your referring those temps just with his pentium chip right? cause my axp can get to around 75 on load but i thought that was normal
November 14, 2006 7:01:34 AM

I don't think it is normal for an Athlon XP to hit 75C if that is what you are asking. I am not too familiar with XPs though having never owned one. So I could be wrong.
November 14, 2006 9:59:26 AM

Interesting.. Are you saying that the power standby led would light up on the motherboard only after you would hit the power button on the case? Or is the light on all the time once you have power to your power suply? In either case I think your power supply must of been partially working since that led is powered from the supply, not the CMOS battery. Anyway, it still possible for the power supply is bad in that it is delivering maybe proper power to some of the rails but not others.

Curiosity question, you do have a speaker hooked up to the speaker header pins (4 pins) or is there a small piezo speaker soldered onto your board?

You don't have a multi-meter? :)  $9 bucks at Radio shack for a digital one hehe.

Anyways I did come across this link with a guy that has had the same problem as you with the identical board.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1113435

Forgot to have you try the pull of the 4 pin connector or the Insert key trick.

Hope the new power supply does the trick for you. Let us know how it goes.

P.S. I spoke too soon I guess for my board issue. I've actually resurrected my Asus board which I thought I damaged with the CPU cooler install. Turns out the bios was corrupt and had to use an in the dark bios flashing technique.. I was lucky though, since yours is a harder one to diagnose with no fans, etc. Mine would at least sometimes partially POST.
November 14, 2006 7:58:38 PM

Hi All:
Thanks for the input! Good idea about the fan sticking on stray wires Scougs. Fortunately I noticed that the heatsink/fan wires AND the wires to an 80 mm supplemental fan for the heatsink air duct could be a problem so I had them tied out of the way with an "electrical cable zip-tie"!
The standby LED I referred to Sypil was a green LED indicator light on the motherboard near the memory sticks, not the case LED light. I had no LED indicator lights working on the case when I tried to turn it on. As to the speaker question.....the Intel motherboard has a tiny speaker that is supposed to beep various signals when certain problems come up. That has never occurred......YET! The only other speakers I have are from the output plugs on the back of the computer case and they are integrated. I have never used the case front audio jack, tho it is wired to the motherboard. RE $9 multi-meter: be careful, just read an article about non-digital meters. The article said the meters with a needle type indicator work by applying current to wires and the current it supplies is higher than the digital ones and can cause damage and to never use that type! Of course the writer may be "full-of-it" lol! Glad to hear you re-vived your M-board. Glad it was you and not me doing the "in-the-dark" bios flash. Thanks for pointing out the thread about the other young man with the same board not powering up. Doesn't seem like quite the same problem......I think he may have damaged his board by not connecting up the power correctly. Said he hooked it up with only 20 of the 24 connectors and tried running it without hooking up the 4 pin CPU power connected. The Intel manual for that and my other boards says you can cause major damage if you run it without that CPU power connected.
November 14, 2006 8:04:50 PM

Hi Fungalberry:
How do you expect me to EVER work on the inside of a computer again after watching that video!!!!! Of course you did notice it was an AMD chip.......we all know Intel chips are indestructible! :D 
Anonymous
November 14, 2006 8:09:34 PM

Make sure you put the CPU in the right way in the socket, and the lever is all the way down.
November 14, 2006 8:31:02 PM

Hi czgncdoe:
I'm sure I put the CPU in the right way........silver side up! And the lever finally went all the way down after I put the computer case on the floor so I could put all my weight on the lever!....................................
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Just kidding. I was very careful to put the notched end over the corresponding location on the m-board. And I pressed down on the cover plate as I lowered the lever and hooked it to the m-board. Thanks for the caution tho.......sounds like an error I could have made, but thankfully didn't.
!