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System Builder MVP?

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Anonymous
December 21, 2004 5:57:02 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

Why is it that the product groups get to have all of the fun? I see MVPs all
the time for XP and for Server and for IIS and for SQL, but where are the
MVPs for System Builders? They tell me there cannot be an MVP group for a
"Program", only for products because there would not be enough to offer
either side in the relationship.

Dang it...I say that is not true. I can think of many ways in which a n MVP
program could be beneficial to both Microsoft and to the System Builders
involved.

Maybe we should just create a group called System Builder MVPs and prove
that we are a "worthy" group...

Before I give my ideas as to what would be involved in this give-and-take
relationship, what are your thoughts? If you were an MVP, what would you
expect to get from Microsoft and what should you be expected to do in turn?

(Note - There are no dumb ideas here, only dumb people...wait, that doesn't
sound right...<big grin>)

--
Steve Winfield
National SB Tech Manager (aka BOB)
US Partner Group, Microsoft

***E-mail: BOBTalk@microsoft.com***
*** Web: oem.microsoft.com/BOB***

More about : system builder mvp

December 21, 2004 6:05:02 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

As a system builder myself, I agree that a unique forum for this catagory
would be a great idea.

I would expect that it assists experienced people to understand the
integration of new technologies and services from a hardware perspective.
Take for example the introduction of SATA drives: how many questions have we
seen these last four months from users [system builders, administrators etc]
attempting to install and use them for the first time. They are a great idea
from a performance perspective, yet manufacturers only go as far as
explainging how to physically install a drive, not use it.

One could also suggest that one would also find that this forum would
identify poorly made or documented products and thus there may be feedback to
manufacturers in order to improve their 'game'.

Here, here from me. How soon can the forum get up and running.

"Steve Winfield [MSFT]" wrote:

> Why is it that the product groups get to have all of the fun? I see MVPs all
> the time for XP and for Server and for IIS and for SQL, but where are the
> MVPs for System Builders? They tell me there cannot be an MVP group for a
> "Program", only for products because there would not be enough to offer
> either side in the relationship.
>
> Dang it...I say that is not true. I can think of many ways in which a n MVP
> program could be beneficial to both Microsoft and to the System Builders
> involved.
>
> Maybe we should just create a group called System Builder MVPs and prove
> that we are a "worthy" group...
>
> Before I give my ideas as to what would be involved in this give-and-take
> relationship, what are your thoughts? If you were an MVP, what would you
> expect to get from Microsoft and what should you be expected to do in turn?
>
> (Note - There are no dumb ideas here, only dumb people...wait, that doesn't
> sound right...<big grin>)
>
> --
> Steve Winfield
> National SB Tech Manager (aka BOB)
> US Partner Group, Microsoft
>
> ***E-mail: BOBTalk@microsoft.com***
> *** Web: oem.microsoft.com/BOB***
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 6:11:03 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

Thanks for the fast response!!!

If you are really interested in helping out, send an e-mail to
BOBTalk@microsoft.com and take a look at http://oem.microsoft.com/bob to get
an idea of who we are and what we do. Yo may also want to check out our
brand new System Builder discussion group here on TechNet.

Once I get a number of reponses, we will look to see what we can do to make
this a reality.

"BAR" wrote:

> As a system builder myself, I agree that a unique forum for this catagory
> would be a great idea.
>
> I would expect that it assists experienced people to understand the
> integration of new technologies and services from a hardware perspective.
> Take for example the introduction of SATA drives: how many questions have we
> seen these last four months from users [system builders, administrators etc]
> attempting to install and use them for the first time. They are a great idea
> from a performance perspective, yet manufacturers only go as far as
> explainging how to physically install a drive, not use it.
>
> One could also suggest that one would also find that this forum would
> identify poorly made or documented products and thus there may be feedback to
> manufacturers in order to improve their 'game'.
>
> Here, here from me. How soon can the forum get up and running.
>
> "Steve Winfield [MSFT]" wrote:
>
> > Why is it that the product groups get to have all of the fun? I see MVPs all
> > the time for XP and for Server and for IIS and for SQL, but where are the
> > MVPs for System Builders? They tell me there cannot be an MVP group for a
> > "Program", only for products because there would not be enough to offer
> > either side in the relationship.
> >
> > Dang it...I say that is not true. I can think of many ways in which a n MVP
> > program could be beneficial to both Microsoft and to the System Builders
> > involved.
> >
> > Maybe we should just create a group called System Builder MVPs and prove
> > that we are a "worthy" group...
> >
> > Before I give my ideas as to what would be involved in this give-and-take
> > relationship, what are your thoughts? If you were an MVP, what would you
> > expect to get from Microsoft and what should you be expected to do in turn?
> >
> > (Note - There are no dumb ideas here, only dumb people...wait, that doesn't
> > sound right...<big grin>)
> >
> > --
> > Steve Winfield
> > National SB Tech Manager (aka BOB)
> > US Partner Group, Microsoft
> >
> > ***E-mail: BOBTalk@microsoft.com***
> > *** Web: oem.microsoft.com/BOB***
Related resources
December 21, 2004 9:08:28 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

Wonderful Idea!
when can we get it up and running??
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 11:06:13 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

Seems to me that system builders and others who are dealing with repairing
other people's computers are going to run into problems that don't apply to
someone tweaking their own system. And we've also probably got an array of
tools that an average user isn't going to have available. And when we have a
problem, by the time we come to a group to ask a question, it's not going to
be a simple matter of scanning for viruses.

Just wondering though -- are you imagining that this is going to be open to
the public, or is it going to be private? If it's a public group, one
benefit might be some sort of referral system where people looking for
repairs, computer, on-site service, technical support, or whatever, might
get a link to a business in their area. The downside to making it public is
that folks will be posting the simple questions and expecting professional
answers, where the system builders would be looking to solve their own
unique problems with help from peers.


"Steve Winfield [MSFT]" <BOBTalk@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7194496A-E27B-4764-B822-B890DB04A8A5@microsoft.com...
> Why is it that the product groups get to have all of the fun? I see MVPs
> all
> the time for XP and for Server and for IIS and for SQL, but where are the
> MVPs for System Builders? They tell me there cannot be an MVP group for a
> "Program", only for products because there would not be enough to offer
> either side in the relationship.
>
> Dang it...I say that is not true. I can think of many ways in which a n
> MVP
> program could be beneficial to both Microsoft and to the System Builders
> involved.
>
> Maybe we should just create a group called System Builder MVPs and prove
> that we are a "worthy" group...
>
> Before I give my ideas as to what would be involved in this give-and-take
> relationship, what are your thoughts? If you were an MVP, what would you
> expect to get from Microsoft and what should you be expected to do in
> turn?
>
> (Note - There are no dumb ideas here, only dumb people...wait, that
> doesn't
> sound right...<big grin>)
>
> --
> Steve Winfield
> National SB Tech Manager (aka BOB)
> US Partner Group, Microsoft
>
> ***E-mail: BOBTalk@microsoft.com***
> *** Web: oem.microsoft.com/BOB***
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 11:19:02 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

You bring up some very good points. I would imagine that the System Builder
MVPs and System Builder newsgroup would focus more on issues for System
Builders only. If any end-user did post, then we would be good net-citizens
and direct them politely and appropriately to the proper newsgroup or
resource. The main purpose is for System Builders to help System Builders
and to improve communication with Microsoft. This new approach would address
all levels of System Builder questions, either from the peers or from experts
at Microsoft.

Regarding the idea of pointing end-users with issues to local resources,
there is actually a group working on this from the Microsoft Partner Program
(so make sure you are registered at www.microsoft.com/partner...hint-hint).

Thanks for the great input.

If you want to get involved in the idea, please send me an e-mail at
BOBTalk@microsoft.com.

See ya,
Steve

Regarding

"D.Currie" wrote:

> Seems to me that system builders and others who are dealing with repairing
> other people's computers are going to run into problems that don't apply to
> someone tweaking their own system. And we've also probably got an array of
> tools that an average user isn't going to have available. And when we have a
> problem, by the time we come to a group to ask a question, it's not going to
> be a simple matter of scanning for viruses.
>
> Just wondering though -- are you imagining that this is going to be open to
> the public, or is it going to be private? If it's a public group, one
> benefit might be some sort of referral system where people looking for
> repairs, computer, on-site service, technical support, or whatever, might
> get a link to a business in their area. The downside to making it public is
> that folks will be posting the simple questions and expecting professional
> answers, where the system builders would be looking to solve their own
> unique problems with help from peers.
>
>
> "Steve Winfield [MSFT]" <BOBTalk@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:7194496A-E27B-4764-B822-B890DB04A8A5@microsoft.com...
> > Why is it that the product groups get to have all of the fun? I see MVPs
> > all
> > the time for XP and for Server and for IIS and for SQL, but where are the
> > MVPs for System Builders? They tell me there cannot be an MVP group for a
> > "Program", only for products because there would not be enough to offer
> > either side in the relationship.
> >
> > Dang it...I say that is not true. I can think of many ways in which a n
> > MVP
> > program could be beneficial to both Microsoft and to the System Builders
> > involved.
> >
> > Maybe we should just create a group called System Builder MVPs and prove
> > that we are a "worthy" group...
> >
> > Before I give my ideas as to what would be involved in this give-and-take
> > relationship, what are your thoughts? If you were an MVP, what would you
> > expect to get from Microsoft and what should you be expected to do in
> > turn?
> >
> > (Note - There are no dumb ideas here, only dumb people...wait, that
> > doesn't
> > sound right...<big grin>)
> >
> > --
> > Steve Winfield
> > National SB Tech Manager (aka BOB)
> > US Partner Group, Microsoft
> >
> > ***E-mail: BOBTalk@microsoft.com***
> > *** Web: oem.microsoft.com/BOB***
>
>
>
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 11:25:01 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

Hey Boss,

I would love to get it up and running yesterday, but unfortunately we have
to work out the gives-and-gets first.

If you want to get involved in this, send me an e-mail at
BOBTalk@microsoft.com.

See ya,
Steve

"boss" wrote:

> Wonderful Idea!
> when can we get it up and running??
>
>
>
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 12:33:29 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

Just to add my 2 cents which might not be worth much, generally, the MS-MVP
program is geared to help with specific MS Products. System Building
doesn't actually fall into that category and the MS public newsgroups do
include a Hardware newsgroup. I don't know that there are any "Hardware"
specific MVPs but a number of MVPs who are versed in hardware issues do
populate that group.

We do occasionally get questions in these groups from system builders but
generally, they are related to a specific product.

System building issues don't fall under the purview of Microsoft. Hardware
issues, drivers, updates compatibility are the responsibility of the
manufacturer, something we preach in these groups as users sometimes get the
idea that the OS will be patched to accommodate every individual problem or
issue, something that is definitely not the case and decidedly wrong.

I would think, if a system builder has some issue between the hardware and
the OS, the public hardware group would be where he would post but an awful
lot of those legitimately should go to the hardware manufacturer assuming
the person with the issue can determine which piece of hardware is at fault.

--
Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Steve Winfield [MSFT]" <BOBTalk@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9A0600EB-EB86-41F8-9EDD-919336BF5B3C@microsoft.com...
> You bring up some very good points. I would imagine that the System
> Builder
> MVPs and System Builder newsgroup would focus more on issues for System
> Builders only. If any end-user did post, then we would be good
> net-citizens
> and direct them politely and appropriately to the proper newsgroup or
> resource. The main purpose is for System Builders to help System Builders
> and to improve communication with Microsoft. This new approach would
> address
> all levels of System Builder questions, either from the peers or from
> experts
> at Microsoft.
>
> Regarding the idea of pointing end-users with issues to local resources,
> there is actually a group working on this from the Microsoft Partner
> Program
> (so make sure you are registered at
> www.microsoft.com/partner...hint-hint).
>
> Thanks for the great input.
>
> If you want to get involved in the idea, please send me an e-mail at
> BOBTalk@microsoft.com.
>
> See ya,
> Steve
>
> Regarding
>
> "D.Currie" wrote:
>
>> Seems to me that system builders and others who are dealing with
>> repairing
>> other people's computers are going to run into problems that don't apply
>> to
>> someone tweaking their own system. And we've also probably got an array
>> of
>> tools that an average user isn't going to have available. And when we
>> have a
>> problem, by the time we come to a group to ask a question, it's not going
>> to
>> be a simple matter of scanning for viruses.
>>
>> Just wondering though -- are you imagining that this is going to be open
>> to
>> the public, or is it going to be private? If it's a public group, one
>> benefit might be some sort of referral system where people looking for
>> repairs, computer, on-site service, technical support, or whatever, might
>> get a link to a business in their area. The downside to making it public
>> is
>> that folks will be posting the simple questions and expecting
>> professional
>> answers, where the system builders would be looking to solve their own
>> unique problems with help from peers.
>>
>>
>> "Steve Winfield [MSFT]" <BOBTalk@microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:7194496A-E27B-4764-B822-B890DB04A8A5@microsoft.com...
>> > Why is it that the product groups get to have all of the fun? I see
>> > MVPs
>> > all
>> > the time for XP and for Server and for IIS and for SQL, but where are
>> > the
>> > MVPs for System Builders? They tell me there cannot be an MVP group
>> > for a
>> > "Program", only for products because there would not be enough to offer
>> > either side in the relationship.
>> >
>> > Dang it...I say that is not true. I can think of many ways in which a
>> > n
>> > MVP
>> > program could be beneficial to both Microsoft and to the System
>> > Builders
>> > involved.
>> >
>> > Maybe we should just create a group called System Builder MVPs and
>> > prove
>> > that we are a "worthy" group...
>> >
>> > Before I give my ideas as to what would be involved in this
>> > give-and-take
>> > relationship, what are your thoughts? If you were an MVP, what would
>> > you
>> > expect to get from Microsoft and what should you be expected to do in
>> > turn?
>> >
>> > (Note - There are no dumb ideas here, only dumb people...wait, that
>> > doesn't
>> > sound right...<big grin>)
>> >
>> > --
>> > Steve Winfield
>> > National SB Tech Manager (aka BOB)
>> > US Partner Group, Microsoft
>> >
>> > ***E-mail: BOBTalk@microsoft.com***
>> > *** Web: oem.microsoft.com/BOB***
>>
>>
>>
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 1:39:02 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

Michael,

Thanks for the response, and I agree that the current MVP program is
completely product-centric. However, I think you are missing the point of a
System Builder MVP program and what system builders are all about. In the US
alone, there are over 70k system builders (almost 200k worlwide) who have
special technical needs, training needs, pre-installation tools, and business
plans that go way beyond just talking about hardware. Also, the fact that
more computers are built world-wide by the small system builders than by the
big guys is another reason for the creation of a program such as this. We at
Microsoft need to do a better job of helping system builders survive and
compete with our products, and likewise we need to hear what they need from
us in future OS releases.

Microsoft is actually already very, very involved with system builders
(hince my job and my team <big grin>). While I also agree that some of the
discussion could be handled on 3rd party vendor sites, part of our
(Microsoft's) responsibility should be to help our partners (and end-users in
the ultimate sense) in any way we can. Heck, that is why we allow Windows
Update to provide updates to drivers in addition to hot fixes.

The whole idea of this thought is to help system builders be better at what
they do, and to have a group they can turn to for system builder issues.

Just my $.37 worth... :) 

See ya,
Steve Winfield
National System Builder Tech Manager (aka BOB)
US Partner Group, Microsoft Corporation


"Michael Solomon (MS-MVP)" wrote:

> Just to add my 2 cents which might not be worth much, generally, the MS-MVP
> program is geared to help with specific MS Products. System Building
> doesn't actually fall into that category and the MS public newsgroups do
> include a Hardware newsgroup. I don't know that there are any "Hardware"
> specific MVPs but a number of MVPs who are versed in hardware issues do
> populate that group.
>
> We do occasionally get questions in these groups from system builders but
> generally, they are related to a specific product.
>
> System building issues don't fall under the purview of Microsoft. Hardware
> issues, drivers, updates compatibility are the responsibility of the
> manufacturer, something we preach in these groups as users sometimes get the
> idea that the OS will be patched to accommodate every individual problem or
> issue, something that is definitely not the case and decidedly wrong.
>
> I would think, if a system builder has some issue between the hardware and
> the OS, the public hardware group would be where he would post but an awful
> lot of those legitimately should go to the hardware manufacturer assuming
> the person with the issue can determine which piece of hardware is at fault.
>
> --
> Michael Solomon MS-MVP
> Windows Shell/User
> Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
> DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/
>
> "Steve Winfield [MSFT]" <BOBTalk@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:9A0600EB-EB86-41F8-9EDD-919336BF5B3C@microsoft.com...
> > You bring up some very good points. I would imagine that the System
> > Builder
> > MVPs and System Builder newsgroup would focus more on issues for System
> > Builders only. If any end-user did post, then we would be good
> > net-citizens
> > and direct them politely and appropriately to the proper newsgroup or
> > resource. The main purpose is for System Builders to help System Builders
> > and to improve communication with Microsoft. This new approach would
> > address
> > all levels of System Builder questions, either from the peers or from
> > experts
> > at Microsoft.
> >
> > Regarding the idea of pointing end-users with issues to local resources,
> > there is actually a group working on this from the Microsoft Partner
> > Program
> > (so make sure you are registered at
> > www.microsoft.com/partner...hint-hint).
> >
> > Thanks for the great input.
> >
> > If you want to get involved in the idea, please send me an e-mail at
> > BOBTalk@microsoft.com.
> >
> > See ya,
> > Steve
> >
> > Regarding
> >
> > "D.Currie" wrote:
> >
> >> Seems to me that system builders and others who are dealing with
> >> repairing
> >> other people's computers are going to run into problems that don't apply
> >> to
> >> someone tweaking their own system. And we've also probably got an array
> >> of
> >> tools that an average user isn't going to have available. And when we
> >> have a
> >> problem, by the time we come to a group to ask a question, it's not going
> >> to
> >> be a simple matter of scanning for viruses.
> >>
> >> Just wondering though -- are you imagining that this is going to be open
> >> to
> >> the public, or is it going to be private? If it's a public group, one
> >> benefit might be some sort of referral system where people looking for
> >> repairs, computer, on-site service, technical support, or whatever, might
> >> get a link to a business in their area. The downside to making it public
> >> is
> >> that folks will be posting the simple questions and expecting
> >> professional
> >> answers, where the system builders would be looking to solve their own
> >> unique problems with help from peers.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Steve Winfield [MSFT]" <BOBTalk@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:7194496A-E27B-4764-B822-B890DB04A8A5@microsoft.com...
> >> > Why is it that the product groups get to have all of the fun? I see
> >> > MVPs
> >> > all
> >> > the time for XP and for Server and for IIS and for SQL, but where are
> >> > the
> >> > MVPs for System Builders? They tell me there cannot be an MVP group
> >> > for a
> >> > "Program", only for products because there would not be enough to offer
> >> > either side in the relationship.
> >> >
> >> > Dang it...I say that is not true. I can think of many ways in which a
> >> > n
> >> > MVP
> >> > program could be beneficial to both Microsoft and to the System
> >> > Builders
> >> > involved.
> >> >
> >> > Maybe we should just create a group called System Builder MVPs and
> >> > prove
> >> > that we are a "worthy" group...
> >> >
> >> > Before I give my ideas as to what would be involved in this
> >> > give-and-take
> >> > relationship, what are your thoughts? If you were an MVP, what would
> >> > you
> >> > expect to get from Microsoft and what should you be expected to do in
> >> > turn?
> >> >
> >> > (Note - There are no dumb ideas here, only dumb people...wait, that
> >> > doesn't
> >> > sound right...<big grin>)
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Steve Winfield
> >> > National SB Tech Manager (aka BOB)
> >> > US Partner Group, Microsoft
> >> >
> >> > ***E-mail: BOBTalk@microsoft.com***
> >> > *** Web: oem.microsoft.com/BOB***
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 2:45:10 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

Steve, as one who has had his PCs built by a system builder for a number of
years, I'm certainly familiar and I agree that such communications are not
only imperative but should definitely be improved. We too often see system
builders hit these newsgroups with questions that in truth don't belong here
and that's my point. There should be specific groups for that, a
requirement of which should be that only qualified system builders belong.
I don't believe it belongs on the public newsgroups, rather it should be a
part of resources that Microsoft should make available to qualified system
builders.

In that regard, I certainly think the assistance and resources offered to
the major OEMs should also be available to the many "white box" builders
around the world.

MVPs in these groups come about as a result of participation and being
noticed within the MVP community. I would think, any such MVPs in System
Builder newsgroups should be a result of similar notice of participation and
giving consistently good information.

I'm not disagreeing with what you basically propose, only the venue which I
don't think belongs in the public newsgroups. You have system builders who
deal with proprietary information, who may well have foreknowledge of coming
products, tantamount to being a beta tester, all of whom must sign NDAs. In
fact, even the MS-MVPs are governed by such an agreement but we are the link
to the public. You are talking about something that would be very difficult
to control in a public setting. Beyond that, there are things, tools, ways
of doing things that might well be provided to system builders that don't
belong in the public arena. Users, might not be able to perform many such
functions on their own system but if talked about in public newsgroups, it's
an open opportunity for them to try which then opens the possibility they
will end up doing something that is far outside standard use or the
parameters of use for the general public and as such, might then end up
being something we can't fix.

Having private newsgroups for what you are suggesting would resolve any such
issues and likely make it an easier sell to Microsoft. I believe they
resources should exist but they should be backchannel as opposed to public
newsgroups.

--
Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Steve Winfield [MSFT]" <BOBTalk@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:D 7A89787-0175-4945-B6B5-434D63058937@microsoft.com...
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 3:09:02 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

(Okay...one last post tonight... :-)... then I am really wrapping gifts)

Thanks for the clarification Michael. I can see your point in making it a
private newsgroup. Currently, we are limited to using TechNet for newsgroups
until we get something off the ground.

The vast majority of our work will be off the MSFT OEM/System Builder
website (http://oem.microsoft.com) which requires registration and
authentication, so it meets the ideas you are espousing. This is also where
the MVP work would be done in time.

Thanks again for your input and feel free to contact us directly at
BOBTalk@microsoft.com.

See ya,
Steve

"Michael Solomon (MS-MVP)" wrote:

> Steve, as one who has had his PCs built by a system builder for a number of
> years, I'm certainly familiar and I agree that such communications are not
> only imperative but should definitely be improved. We too often see system
> builders hit these newsgroups with questions that in truth don't belong here
> and that's my point. There should be specific groups for that, a
> requirement of which should be that only qualified system builders belong.
> I don't believe it belongs on the public newsgroups, rather it should be a
> part of resources that Microsoft should make available to qualified system
> builders.
>
> In that regard, I certainly think the assistance and resources offered to
> the major OEMs should also be available to the many "white box" builders
> around the world.
>
> MVPs in these groups come about as a result of participation and being
> noticed within the MVP community. I would think, any such MVPs in System
> Builder newsgroups should be a result of similar notice of participation and
> giving consistently good information.
>
> I'm not disagreeing with what you basically propose, only the venue which I
> don't think belongs in the public newsgroups. You have system builders who
> deal with proprietary information, who may well have foreknowledge of coming
> products, tantamount to being a beta tester, all of whom must sign NDAs. In
> fact, even the MS-MVPs are governed by such an agreement but we are the link
> to the public. You are talking about something that would be very difficult
> to control in a public setting. Beyond that, there are things, tools, ways
> of doing things that might well be provided to system builders that don't
> belong in the public arena. Users, might not be able to perform many such
> functions on their own system but if talked about in public newsgroups, it's
> an open opportunity for them to try which then opens the possibility they
> will end up doing something that is far outside standard use or the
> parameters of use for the general public and as such, might then end up
> being something we can't fix.
>
> Having private newsgroups for what you are suggesting would resolve any such
> issues and likely make it an easier sell to Microsoft. I believe they
> resources should exist but they should be backchannel as opposed to public
> newsgroups.
>
> --
> Michael Solomon MS-MVP
> Windows Shell/User
> Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
> DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/
>
> "Steve Winfield [MSFT]" <BOBTalk@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:D 7A89787-0175-4945-B6B5-434D63058937@microsoft.com...
>
>
>
December 22, 2004 4:10:57 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

Micheal;
I believe most of the issues of a "System Builder" fall mainly on
Microsoft Products" as few of us are building Linux or open source
computers. And those who are building such have some fine user groups of
their own.
I think this project would help system builders and would also help
Microsoft as well, by providing feedback in both directions.
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 4:10:58 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

Great point. If we are going to compete against open source, we need to make
sure we have the proper tools and resources. A community of system builders
and system builder MVPs would help provide a common forum and outlet for
system builder specific information.

Thanks,
Steve

"boss" wrote:

> Micheal;
> I believe most of the issues of a "System Builder" fall mainly on
> Microsoft Products" as few of us are building Linux or open source
> computers. And those who are building such have some fine user groups of
> their own.
> I think this project would help system builders and would also help
> Microsoft as well, by providing feedback in both directions.
>
>
>
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 4:10:58 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

Okay, but why wouldn't those go to the appropriate Microsoft product
newsgroup as opposed to a generic system builder group? I agree about the
feedback but I believe there are some other venues for system builders. I'm
not familiar with them but I seem to recall some system builder(s) having
posted links for such communications as well as newsgroup links in the past.

--
Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"boss" <here@iam.not> wrote in message
news:%23ZUpN0%235EHA.2124@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Micheal;
> I believe most of the issues of a "System Builder" fall mainly on
> Microsoft Products" as few of us are building Linux or open source
> computers. And those who are building such have some fine user groups of
> their own.
> I think this project would help system builders and would also help
> Microsoft as well, by providing feedback in both directions.
>
>
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 4:10:59 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

Surprisingly, most channels available for system builders fall in one of two
categories:

1. Reactive in nature. Not there to help build business, but merely
solve issues when they arise.
2. Stop at the installation of the OS. Unfortunately, this is a
short-coming of our system builder offerings. Over 90% of our system
builders also engage in services outside of system building; however, they
are also a group that has special needs that the product groups don't
currently understand. This is one of the reasons my team was created. We
are currently working with Office, MBS, and the Longhorn groups to help them
understand the needs of system builders.

I certainly appreciate your comments and questioning on this topic. Don't
hesitate to keep questioning...it is helping me further hone my thoughts on
the subject.

After all, we are all in this together...

(I am done for the night...need to wrap gifts... :-) ...see ya)


"Michael Solomon (MS-MVP)" wrote:

> Okay, but why wouldn't those go to the appropriate Microsoft product
> newsgroup as opposed to a generic system builder group? I agree about the
> feedback but I believe there are some other venues for system builders. I'm
> not familiar with them but I seem to recall some system builder(s) having
> posted links for such communications as well as newsgroup links in the past.
>
> --
> Michael Solomon MS-MVP
> Windows Shell/User
> Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
> DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/
>
> "boss" <here@iam.not> wrote in message
> news:%23ZUpN0%235EHA.2124@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> > Micheal;
> > I believe most of the issues of a "System Builder" fall mainly on
> > Microsoft Products" as few of us are building Linux or open source
> > computers. And those who are building such have some fine user groups of
> > their own.
> > I think this project would help system builders and would also help
> > Microsoft as well, by providing feedback in both directions.
> >
> >
>
>
>
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 3:27:02 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

Thank you, Steve, that takes care of my concerns.

--
Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Steve Winfield [MSFT]" <BOBTalk@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:8332D424-E055-4652-9C38-E7438CC1BEBC@microsoft.com...
> (Okay...one last post tonight... :-)... then I am really wrapping gifts)
>
> Thanks for the clarification Michael. I can see your point in making it a
> private newsgroup. Currently, we are limited to using TechNet for
> newsgroups
> until we get something off the ground.
>
> The vast majority of our work will be off the MSFT OEM/System Builder
> website (http://oem.microsoft.com) which requires registration and
> authentication, so it meets the ideas you are espousing. This is also
> where
> the MVP work would be done in time.
>
> Thanks again for your input and feel free to contact us directly at
> BOBTalk@microsoft.com.
>
> See ya,
> Steve
>
> "Michael Solomon (MS-MVP)" wrote:
>
>> Steve, as one who has had his PCs built by a system builder for a number
>> of
>> years, I'm certainly familiar and I agree that such communications are
>> not
>> only imperative but should definitely be improved. We too often see
>> system
>> builders hit these newsgroups with questions that in truth don't belong
>> here
>> and that's my point. There should be specific groups for that, a
>> requirement of which should be that only qualified system builders
>> belong.
>> I don't believe it belongs on the public newsgroups, rather it should be
>> a
>> part of resources that Microsoft should make available to qualified
>> system
>> builders.
>>
>> In that regard, I certainly think the assistance and resources offered to
>> the major OEMs should also be available to the many "white box" builders
>> around the world.
>>
>> MVPs in these groups come about as a result of participation and being
>> noticed within the MVP community. I would think, any such MVPs in System
>> Builder newsgroups should be a result of similar notice of participation
>> and
>> giving consistently good information.
>>
>> I'm not disagreeing with what you basically propose, only the venue which
>> I
>> don't think belongs in the public newsgroups. You have system builders
>> who
>> deal with proprietary information, who may well have foreknowledge of
>> coming
>> products, tantamount to being a beta tester, all of whom must sign NDAs.
>> In
>> fact, even the MS-MVPs are governed by such an agreement but we are the
>> link
>> to the public. You are talking about something that would be very
>> difficult
>> to control in a public setting. Beyond that, there are things, tools,
>> ways
>> of doing things that might well be provided to system builders that don't
>> belong in the public arena. Users, might not be able to perform many
>> such
>> functions on their own system but if talked about in public newsgroups,
>> it's
>> an open opportunity for them to try which then opens the possibility they
>> will end up doing something that is far outside standard use or the
>> parameters of use for the general public and as such, might then end up
>> being something we can't fix.
>>
>> Having private newsgroups for what you are suggesting would resolve any
>> such
>> issues and likely make it an easier sell to Microsoft. I believe they
>> resources should exist but they should be backchannel as opposed to
>> public
>> newsgroups.
>>
>> --
>> Michael Solomon MS-MVP
>> Windows Shell/User
>> Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
>> DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/
>>
>> "Steve Winfield [MSFT]" <BOBTalk@microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:D 7A89787-0175-4945-B6B5-434D63058937@microsoft.com...
>>
>>
>>
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 5:31:10 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

"boss" <here@iam.not> wrote in message
news:#zR$II75EHA.1392@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
| Wonderful Idea!
| when can we get it up and running??

Maybe you can clean up the old barn and put on a show!!
December 22, 2004 6:34:48 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support (More info?)

Well, now partner, I am thinking with an extra hand (like yourself), we
could get that ole barn cleaned right out and get the ball rollin. What do
ya think?
!