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Am2 or 939 (please help)

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November 14, 2006 4:14:22 PM

939 or Am2?

Hello,

I’ve been snooping around reading reviews for a few hours I’m a little confused on which setup would be best for me.

For the longest time I’ve been gaming on a low end system


Socket 462
Asus a78nx Deluxe (I think I got it right)
2400+ amd Processor (2.2ghz)
1 gig of ram (184 pin)

Yes I know outdated machine  the games I play are Call Of Duty 2 and Counter Strike Source. Now believe it or not I actually get pretty decent fps in both games. I rarely drop below 70 in cod2 most of the time I hang around 100 and 200 fps)1024 x 768 and 800x600) and around 60-100 in css(1024x768).

I want to upgrade but I’m just not exactly sure what I should be getting. I thought at 1st it would be Am2 but after some reading I can somewhat understand that Am2 isn’t much better than a 939 socket solution but then again I’d rather have people that are more experience kind of point me in the right direction.

What I have salvage from my old machine

- Keyboard, case mouse, monitor, cables ide hard drives (maybe even my 184 pin ram)

What I was looking into getting

939

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E1681...
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E1681...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

Am2
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E1681...
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E1681...
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E1681...

^will need ram for this one seem some stuff at zipzoom for 113 (1 gig)

My budget is 530 maybe 600 (digging deep) for these parts.

I’ve always been an amd/nvidia person but if you have other suggestions by all means let me know

Thanks in advance

More about : am2 939

November 14, 2006 4:37:01 PM

If total cost is your primary concern then get the S939 Athlon since you can reuse your DDR 400 (assuming that's what you have). The downside of the S939 Athlons is that no more of them will be produced after this year. The faster CPUs you can drop into it are the X2 4600+, X2 4800+ (if you can find it), and the FX-60.

Newer Athlons like the X2 5000+, 5200+, etc will only come out for socket AM2. However AM2 requires DDR2 800 to be just as fast as a socket 939 Athlon of the same model with DDR 400 RAM. If you don't see yourself upgrading the CPU for another 3 years or so, then go with the cheaper S939 setup. By the time you want to upgrade, you'll probably want to do it from scratch.
November 14, 2006 4:38:40 PM

I haven't even looked at the parts and I'm going to say AM2 - there's no reason to be on 939 any more.
Related resources
November 14, 2006 4:45:49 PM

Thanks for your reply jag, the ram is Pc 2100 and pc2700 would that work on that mobo? I figured 184 pin would work on all mobo's (that accept 184)


You bring up a good point asfar as the upgrading in the future i haven't put much thought to that but it would be nice to just have to upgrade a cpu rather than the whole system again.

I've seen some bench marks running a few applications and seemed liek the Am2 set was just slower

I was kinda thinking about that Mesa then i got on some boards like this one and was just comfused with people saying Am2 is better then others saying no 939 so i thought i'd get a better response i put what i was trying to do on the table. I just want the most for the $ thats all
Anymore input?

Thanks
November 14, 2006 4:51:14 PM

Quote:
I just want the most for the $ thats all
Anymore input?

Then you should build a Intel system......
November 14, 2006 4:53:13 PM

Quote:
I just want the most for the $ thats all
Anymore input?

Then you should build a Intel system......

If there is a nice one can fit that budget by all means let me know :D 
a b B Homebuilt system
November 14, 2006 5:09:12 PM

You're probably going to need to get a S939 system. Looking at the AM2, unless you have a different powersupply, yours is to old to handle newer tech. Even the lowly 7900GS needs the 6 pin PCIe plug, which I doubt your psu has. (assuming it was bought when you bought your current motherboard.) Speaking of which, both new motherboards require a 24 pin connection, and the seperate 4 pin 12V plug. The odds of your Socket A era PSU having ANY of these plugs is very low. If you toss in the price of a good PSU (no less then $60 probably), that leaves you with only $540 to upgrade. Perhaps some people here know of how to buy a C2D or AM2 with only $540, but I'd stick with the S939. (and upgrade to real ram first chance you get.
November 14, 2006 5:20:07 PM

Emm i Didn't even think about the Psu i know i went through 2 of them on the 3rd one now its like 480 watts when i get home i will post the specs on it

THanks for that info
November 14, 2006 5:22:56 PM

Seems like to me that your at a point where you need a whole new system. With that said you have every option available to you. You could even go with an Intel system.
If you must go AMD and you don't plan on upgrading your system for another two years, and want to save some money... go with a 939 pin. You just missed a sale from NewEgg on a Athlon FX-55 @2.6GHz and 250gig HD for $199!it could still be on, or they could have something else on sale. Check the combo deals!

But like I said you have a lot of options at this point so don't just think cheap.
a b B Homebuilt system
November 14, 2006 5:31:20 PM

Thats actually good if your on your third. Theres a chance it has a 24pin motherboard plug, a 4 pin 12V plug, and the 6pin PCIe plug. If it has say the 24pin and the 4 pin plugs, but not the 6pin, you could buy an adaptor if you don't mind using them. (I hate them, so I bought a new PSU the last time I upgraded.) If this is the case, then you should try to get the AM2 setup. Don't be afraid to get only 1GB of ram, or a 7600GT instead of the 7900GS. Adding ram or a new video card is MUCH easier then replacing a motherboard or CPU.
November 14, 2006 5:46:07 PM

liek everyone has said, you will need a new power supply, mobo, processor, ram, and a vid card...thats gonna be very hard to find on a 600 dollar budget...here's what i think if you really wanna go that route...

Video card
Motherboard
Power supply
Ram
Processor

all of this comes to a total of 665 plus shipping. look around, and find out other things about those products...from what i know, those are all good and will work together very well. that setup is more than you need to run counter strike source and call of duty 2. also, 530-600 is not a lot when it comes to upgrading. if you want to go with upgraded cpu cooling, then your subtotal comes to about 720 with a good heatsink and fan combo.
November 14, 2006 5:53:18 PM

Quote:
Thanks for your reply jag, the ram is Pc 2100 and pc2700 would that work on that mobo? I figured 184 pin would work on all mobo's (that accept 184)


Well, that's going to cause the CPU to run slower then because you have DDR 333 RAM. The Athlon 64 X2 needs DDR 400 to run at the correct speed. DDR 400 = 200MHz FSB x 2.

The Athlon X2 4200+ runs at 2.2GHz. The speed is calculated as follows:

FSB x Clock-Multiplier = 200MHz FSB x 11 = 2.2GHz

However, PC2700 is DDR 333 RAM which runs at 166.67MHz FSB. That will force the Athlon X2 4200+ to run slower:

FSB x Clock-Multiplier = 166.67MHz FSB x 11 = 1.83GHz.

You will need to buy DDR 400 RAM unless the almost 400MHz loss in performance is acceptable.
a b B Homebuilt system
November 14, 2006 6:02:29 PM

Actually, the ram would default to the lowest of the ram speed, pc2100. (DDR266) What happens next depends on the motherboard. If its a good overclocking motherboard, or at the very least one with lots of different ram ratios, you'll select a ratio that allows your CPU to run at its real speed, while holding the ram to DDR266. (3:2) You only loose the CPU MHz if you stick with 1:1.
November 14, 2006 6:08:17 PM

Since you will need to buy new RAM anyway, then you will probably want to turn your attention to the Core 2 Duo processor. The cheapest C2D CPU is the E6300, for about $183, and is as fast as the X2 4400+/4600+ depending on which benchmarks you look at.

As I mentioned in my first post, AM2 will need DDR2 800 RAM to keep pace with the S939 Athlon & DDR 400 RAM. However, C2D CPUs only requires DDR2 533 to run at stock speed. Therefore RAM is cheaper. You can go with DDR2 667 or 800 if you want to overclock.

On the other hand, motherboards for C2D CPUs are more expensive than AM2 Athlon 64 CPUs because they are newer. But the extra cost of a C2D motherboard is offset by the cheaper price of DDR2 533 RAM.

To sum up in price:

C2D E6300 + DDR2 533 + C2D motherboard = AM2 Athlon + DDR2 800 + AM2 motherboard.

Roughly speaking.

The Core 2 Duo system will be faster.
November 14, 2006 7:00:25 PM

You can re-use your DDR ram with a single-core s939 build pretty effectively. Don't get an s939 x2 though, they are overpriced.

In order of price and performance these are your good choices:
1. get a single core s939 and re-use your ram
2. Get an AM2 x2 3800+
3. Get C2D

Options 1 and 3 are the better ones, the x2 3800+ is a pretty narrow $/performance niche for a gaming machine.

But you really beg the question: If you're getting 100fps in the games you play why in the hell are you upgrading?!?! Unless your system breaks or you want to play some more resource-hungry games stick with what you have and be happy :) 
November 14, 2006 7:22:56 PM



WTH? A $180 s939 x2 4200+ It's actually cheaper than the AM2 one. If you browse CPUs on newegg that isn't even listed. You have to search for it. Pricewatch.com lists the cheapest s939 x2 4200+ as $211. I just payed $193 for my x2 4200+ ~1month ago.
November 14, 2006 8:09:54 PM

Open box is always cheaper. Open box specials don't show up on newegg browse, only search and specials.
November 14, 2006 8:24:53 PM

This is how you can have your cake and eat it too. This solution will allow you to reuse your DDR memory and AGP video card. Not only that, to future proof it, you can later add DDR2 memory and a PCIe video card when your budget allows. Did I mention this solution will yield the fastest machine in comparison to what is suggested here so far, or that it will easily fit in your $500 budget? Am I nuts? Nope. here is the skinny

Gets an Intel core 2 duo E6600. I pick this chip because of the huge 4 meg cache, which is needed to minimize the speed deficiency of DDR memory, cost $386

As for the motherboard, this is what I pick, the ASRock 775Dual-VSTA http://www.ocworkbench.com/2006/asrock/775Dual-VSTA/g1.... It slices and dices, etc, etc. and only $55. So what is wrong with it? Nothing too evil. It uses a VIA chipset, and only has PCIe 4x. But even with those minuses, it will still blow the doors off current AMD offerings.
November 14, 2006 8:35:08 PM

For a C2D:

http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E1681...
combo to save $10 with:
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E1681...
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E1681...

You'll get a C2D E6300 with a 965 mobo and a gig of value RAM for $360. You won't be able to use your AGP card in this though, so you'll need another $150 for a video card and maybe $50ish for a PSU.

That isn't a very overclockable board, only +.15V and 266/333 system bus selections, so either the system will clock at 333 with +.15V or it won't and you'll be at stock.


You might also consider building another computer as you go. Leave your current one intact, since all you'll be getting from it is a case, mouse, KB, HD and DVD, and your HD will be PATA anyway. You could probably get all of those components for ~$100. Then, order the new system in pieces as you get money:
case - $20
PSU - <$50
HD - $55
DVD-R - $28
KB - $5
mouse - $5
CPU/MB/RAM - $300-400
Video card - $100-200
= low end gaming system that will be many times faster than what you have, and you'll have two systems.
November 14, 2006 8:38:23 PM

I saw that board on newegg. What kind of performance hit is there with PCIe 4x instead of 16x? I assume it would be noticeable, but there are a fair number of boards that offer a 16x and a 4x for dual video cards...
November 14, 2006 8:52:37 PM

Quote:
Actually, the ram would default to the lowest of the ram speed, pc2100. (DDR266)


Oops.

Yeah, you are correct. While writing my response I forgot that he had two different types of RAM.
November 14, 2006 9:15:03 PM

Look at the bright side, if he wasn't thoroughly confused before, he is now..... :?
November 14, 2006 9:23:06 PM

Quote:
Look at the bright side, if he wasn't thoroughly confused before, he is now..... :?


Yeah, isn't it fun when lots of people offer tech advice? Especially when it's they contradict each other.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...
a b B Homebuilt system
November 14, 2006 9:39:18 PM

Actually Mr._fnord, you're on the right track.

If he buys this motherboard, he can get the 6300 combo for about $325.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

This is the Gigabyte DS3, but with onboard graphics. It still has a PCIe 16x upgrade slot however, so he can upgrade his video when he gets the $$$ again. Throw in 2 GBs of OCZ ram for $220 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1682... ($195 after rebate), that leaves $55/$80 for a new PSU if he needs one.

Yes he'll be stuck with onboard, but as I said earlier, better to get a good motherboard and CPU now, then have to upgrade them later. They are the heart and brain of the machine, its easier to do a hip replacement then a brain transplant. If thats still to much, you can always drop down to 1GB instead of two, and upgrade when prices drop.
November 14, 2006 9:46:49 PM

Maybe he could go for the Asrock 775Dual-VSTA, that way he can keep his agp card until he has enough money to upgrade to pci-e and a new psu. He can even use his old RAM until he has enough to upgrade that too.

EDIT: This has got to be one of the best boards ever made for people who have little cash and an old system that still has reasonable parts in it. Kind of like what the 939Dual-SATA2 was, only now you can keep you RAM too!
a b B Homebuilt system
November 14, 2006 9:56:41 PM

Perhaps. I understand thats a good board, but I dont' think its close to the DS3. (actually at stock it probably is, but overclock is another matter.) If he went with that board, the combo pricing is out, but seeing as thats a cheap board, probably no biggie.
November 14, 2006 10:00:39 PM

am2 is is barely if anymore expensive
November 14, 2006 10:04:20 PM

Oh its nowhere near the DS3 in terms of OC potential, but hes trying to keep costs to a minimum, and the 775Dual-VSTA is great for that because of its ease of upgrade.
November 14, 2006 10:12:28 PM

Actually, 4x PCIe performance is barely noticable, at worst 2-3 FPS penalty on most games. That makes sense, because all these buses do most of the time is transfer data from the hard drive to the video card memory, and the hard drive is the bottleneck. Once the data is on the video card memory, it does not need the bus as much. I would recommend a video card with a large amount of on board memory. :) 
November 14, 2006 10:49:06 PM

Onboard, fast memory with plenty of bandwidth to go around :wink: None of this 64-128 bit stuff :lol: 
November 15, 2006 12:21:42 AM

Here you go grand total $502.97 for a Core 2 Duo, includes Mobo, 1 Gig DDR2 Ram, Intel E6300 CPU and Nvidia 7600 GS Video.

Video:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E1681...

Mobo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E1681...

Memory:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E1682...
1.8 volt which this mobo needs

Core 2 Duo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E1681...

If a new PSU is needed here's one that is inexpensive but should be good enough, Iv'e had good luck with Cooler Master PSU's

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

Even with a new PSU it is $536.96

If was going to upgrade on a budget I would be happy with this setup.
November 15, 2006 12:27:51 AM

Oops! slight mistake, noticed he has IDE Drives. This mobo has 1 IDE port only. So he can add $25.00 for a PCI IDE Card or find a Mobo supports Core 2 Duo or a 965 with more than one IDE port (if such a thing exists).

Edit:
Here we go Nvidia 570i Chipset has 2 IDE ports for 4 IDE devices:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
November 15, 2006 12:58:14 AM

For the cheap part go with 939 as you can still use your existing memory.But if you can afford it,buy the am2 and go with ddr2 as this will guarantee upgradability for the next couple years.But again you've stated that cost is an issue so go with 939 for now as they are still very good processors and save your pennies for another day to build a new system.Goodluck.

Dahak

AMD X2-4400+@2.4 S-939
EVGA NF4 SLI MB
2X EVGA 7800GT IN SLI
2X1GIG DDR IN DC MODE
WD300GIG HD
EXTREME 19IN.MONITOR 1280X1024
ACE 520WATT PSU
COOLERMASTER MINI R120
November 15, 2006 1:06:14 AM

Quote:
EDIT: This has got to be one of the best boards ever made for people who have little cash and an old system that still has reasonable parts in it. Kind of like what the 939Dual-SATA2 was, only now you can keep you RAM too!


I just got the 939Dual-SATA2. It really is a nice board. I kept my PC3200 as well. And, since it has an AM2 path, I should be set for a while, if I decide to upgrade to AM2. But, for now, I think I'm set for a few years...For now. :wink:
November 15, 2006 1:18:06 AM

Quote:
EDIT: This has got to be one of the best boards ever made for people who have little cash and an old system that still has reasonable parts in it. Kind of like what the 939Dual-SATA2 was, only now you can keep you RAM too!


I just got the 939Dual-SATA2. It really is a nice board. I kept my PC3200 as well. And, since it has an AM2 path, I should be set for a while, if I decide to upgrade to AM2. But, for now, I think I'm set for a few years...For now. :wink:
warning that board has a higher than normal failure rate;been there done that.
You're a real pessimist you know that? :evil:  You just had to go and pull out the bad facts.
November 15, 2006 1:30:33 AM

Calm down I'm only joking. But yes it was something you said.

Quote:
warning that board has a higher than normal failure rate;been there done that.

We were just discussing the advantages of the board (as well as the 775dual-vsta) and you had to go and say that. :wink:
November 15, 2006 1:31:57 AM

Oh, and give your dad my condolences 8)
November 15, 2006 1:42:04 AM

A 70yr old tech freak.... wow. My grandma wouldnt come near a computer if I forced her to :lol: 
November 15, 2006 1:43:52 AM

Quote:
A 70yr old tech freak.... wow. My grandma wouldnt come near a computer if I forced her to :lol: 


tie her up and bring it to her.lmao :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

That's wrong 8O
November 15, 2006 1:50:18 AM

Quote:
A 70yr old tech freak.... wow. My grandma wouldnt come near a computer if I forced her to :lol: 


tie her up and bring it to her.lmao :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

That's wrong 8O

rotflmao you are sick buddy.

No you're sick. Tieing up old peple and torturing them with computers you're the sicko here not I. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
November 15, 2006 2:00:48 AM

OKAY!!! Shees some people can't take a joke! No wonder this world sucks ass, everyone is too serious (hahahaha!!!!)
November 15, 2006 3:52:03 AM

I've read the forums for awhile and when people ask these sort of questions I always wonder why no one suggests an opteron anymore. I have an Opteron 165 overclocked to 2.9ghz and sh!t's on almost every processor out except for i think the e6600 and higher C2Ds.

The components below come up to 604 dollars @ newegg.

AMD Opteron 159.99 shipped
ASUS A8N5X NVIDIA nForce4 ATX 79.00 Shipped
Crucial Ballistix 1GB (2x512) 135.00 shipped
ASUS EAX1950PRO 256 GDDR3 PCIe X16 195.00 shipped
ZALMAN CNPS7000B-ALCU 92mm 2 Ball Cooling Fan - Retail 35.00 shipped
November 15, 2006 11:20:24 AM

Thanks for all your help
November 15, 2006 12:36:47 PM

Do you know what part fails? I'll keep my fingers crossed. It's much better than the Chaintech 7NJL6.
November 15, 2006 2:26:56 PM

I never did see the specs on your PSU. Is it 20 or 24 pin? Can you give the exact model. This will determine on what you can do.

Btw, what video card do you currently have? I didn't see you post this either.

Anyway, my opinion on the Dual mobo's (either for AMD or Intel). I honestly don't know why people would suggest this when you have DDR 266 and DDR 333 memory.

And you can buy a connector board to go from 939 to AM2 but then you'd have to buy DDR2 800 memory to go along with it. And buying the connector board is just added money which would of been money better well spent to buy a better board in the first place.

For $600, here's my suggestion.

CPU: E6300 - $183
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-965P-S3 - $122
Video Card: eVGA 7600 GT - $125 after MIR
Case & PSU: I was going to suggest the Antec Sonata II with a 450W PSU but the $40 rebate is gone. Hopefully your PSU is good enough which it should be.
Memory: Corsair Value Select 1GB DDR2 533 - $107. I suggest getting a 1GB stick for now and then getting another 1GB stick later on.
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 160GB SATA 3.0GB/s - $64

I would suggest getting a new HDD and just moving your data over. With a new motherboard, you're going to have to do a "repair" with Windows XP at the minimum so your Registry gets updated so it recognized the new mobo if you keep your old HDD's. Though, a new install with a new HDD would be my recommendation.

If you include the HDD, total cost is $601. If you need a new PSU, then do without the new HDD.

Much cleaner solution than trying to reuse that old DDR memory (if it was DDR 400, I would of suggested going the 939 route to save the hundred bucks). You get a low-end modern system with plenty of head-room for growth. You won't be limited except going Quad-core.

I was reading some comment on waiting for AM3. This is a joke. AM3 won't be out until 2008 and maybe, just maybe at the end of 2007.
November 15, 2006 6:38:59 PM

Sorry about that

the psu isn't 6pin its some noname brand 430 watt its made in thailand

Model and serial = lpj2-23/0502183817

Looks like i will just a new Psu anyway

Previous vid card Apg 8x evga 6600gt 128meg

I dont mind wiping my current HDD's of their info for a clean install either
November 15, 2006 7:13:19 PM

No worries. Just asking so I can help you the best I can.

To meet your budget this FSP Group 450W is the best PSU that I saw for $62 with shipping. 18A on both channels max. The specs say the max wattage for the dual rails is 384W. Therefore 384W/(12V) gives a max of 29 Amps for the 2 rails. You just can't add 18+18 to get 36.

The 29 Amps is fine even for a 8800GTS or a 8800GTX which needs 26A and 28 A, respectively.

Deleting the HDD and adding the PSU gives a grand total of $599.

I think you'd be really happy with this system.
November 15, 2006 7:33:23 PM

Quote:
I haven't even looked at the parts and I'm going to say AM2 - there's no reason to be on 939 any more.


Duh... of course there is. Have you SEEN the price of RAM???

If you can recycle your old Ram you can save $250-$300. Not bad when your spec-ing out a $550 system.
November 15, 2006 8:00:13 PM

There is no longer any logic in selecting an AM2 platform. Since you would have to buy memory, you'd be much faster on any C2D rig. If you must go 939, then consider an Opteron 165 over an any X2. The Opterons all have 1Mb L2 cache, and overclock extremely well. Keep in mind that only the X2 4400 and 4800 have 1Mb L2 cache.
!