Am2 or 939 (please help)

[Shirt]

939 or Am2?

Hello,

I’ve been snooping around reading reviews for a few hours I’m a little confused on which setup would be best for me.

For the longest time I’ve been gaming on a low end system


Socket 462
Asus a78nx Deluxe (I think I got it right)
2400+ amd Processor (2.2ghz)
1 gig of ram (184 pin)

Yes I know outdated machine  the games I play are Call Of Duty 2 and Counter Strike Source. Now believe it or not I actually get pretty decent fps in both games. I rarely drop below 70 in cod2 most of the time I hang around 100 and 200 fps)1024 x 768 and 800x600) and around 60-100 in css(1024x768).

I want to upgrade but I’m just not exactly sure what I should be getting. I thought at 1st it would be Am2 but after some reading I can somewhat understand that Am2 isn’t much better than a 939 socket solution but then again I’d rather have people that are more experience kind of point me in the right direction.

What I have salvage from my old machine

- Keyboard, case mouse, monitor, cables ide hard drives (maybe even my 184 pin ram)

What I was looking into getting

939

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813131568R
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814143070
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103547R

Am2
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813131068R
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814143070
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819103741

^will need ram for this one seem some stuff at zipzoom for 113 (1 gig)

My budget is 530 maybe 600 (digging deep) for these parts.

I’ve always been an amd/nvidia person but if you have other suggestions by all means let me know

Thanks in advance

 

[jaguarskx]

If total cost is your primary concern then get the S939 Athlon since you can reuse your DDR 400 (assuming that's what you have). The downside of the S939 Athlons is that no more of them will be produced after this year. The faster CPUs you can drop into it are the X2 4600+, X2 4800+ (if you can find it), and the FX-60.

Newer Athlons like the X2 5000+, 5200+, etc will only come out for socket AM2. However AM2 requires DDR2 800 to be just as fast as a socket 939 Athlon of the same model with DDR 400 RAM. If you don't see yourself upgrading the CPU for another 3 years or so, then go with the cheaper S939 setup. By the time you want to upgrade, you'll probably want to do it from scratch.

 

[mesarectifier]

I haven't even looked at the parts and I'm going to say AM2 - there's no reason to be on 939 any more.

 

[Shirt]

Thanks for your reply jag, the ram is Pc 2100 and pc2700 would that work on that mobo? I figured 184 pin would work on all mobo's (that accept 184)


You bring up a good point asfar as the upgrading in the future i haven't put much thought to that but it would be nice to just have to upgrade a cpu rather than the whole system again.

I've seen some bench marks running a few applications and seemed liek the Am2 set was just slower

I was kinda thinking about that Mesa then i got on some boards like this one and was just comfused with people saying Am2 is better then others saying no 939 so i thought i'd get a better response i put what i was trying to do on the table. I just want the most for the $ thats all
Anymore input?

Thanks

 

[mad-dog]

I just want the most for the $ thats all
Anymore input?

Then you should build a Intel system......

 

[Shirt]

I just want the most for the $ thats all
Anymore input?

Then you should build a Intel system......

If there is a nice one can fit that budget by all means let me know

 

[4745454b]

You're probably going to need to get a S939 system. Looking at the AM2, unless you have a different powersupply, yours is to old to handle newer tech. Even the lowly 7900GS needs the 6 pin PCIe plug, which I doubt your psu has. (assuming it was bought when you bought your current motherboard.) Speaking of which, both new motherboards require a 24 pin connection, and the seperate 4 pin 12V plug. The odds of your Socket A era PSU having ANY of these plugs is very low. If you toss in the price of a good PSU (no less then $60 probably), that leaves you with only $540 to upgrade. Perhaps some people here know of how to buy a C2D or AM2 with only $540, but I'd stick with the S939. (and upgrade to real ram first chance you get.

 

[Shirt]

Emm i Didn't even think about the Psu i know i went through 2 of them on the 3rd one now its like 480 watts when i get home i will post the specs on it

THanks for that info

 

[NeonDeon]

Seems like to me that your at a point where you need a whole new system. With that said you have every option available to you. You could even go with an Intel system.
If you must go AMD and you don't plan on upgrading your system for another two years, and want to save some money... go with a 939 pin. You just missed a sale from NewEgg on a Athlon FX-55 @2.6GHz and 250gig HD for $199!it could still be on, or they could have something else on sale. Check the combo deals!

But like I said you have a lot of options at this point so don't just think cheap.

 

[4745454b]

Thats actually good if your on your third. Theres a chance it has a 24pin motherboard plug, a 4 pin 12V plug, and the 6pin PCIe plug. If it has say the 24pin and the 4 pin plugs, but not the 6pin, you could buy an adaptor if you don't mind using them. (I hate them, so I bought a new PSU the last time I upgraded.) If this is the case, then you should try to get the AM2 setup. Don't be afraid to get only 1GB of ram, or a 7600GT instead of the 7900GS. Adding ram or a new video card is MUCH easier then replacing a motherboard or CPU.

 

[lambofgode3x]

liek everyone has said, you will need a new power supply, mobo, processor, ram, and a vid card...thats gonna be very hard to find on a 600 dollar budget...here's what i think if you really wanna go that route...

Video card
Motherboard
Power supply
Ram
Processor

all of this comes to a total of 665 plus shipping. look around, and find out other things about those products...from what i know, those are all good and will work together very well. that setup is more than you need to run counter strike source and call of duty 2. also, 530-600 is not a lot when it comes to upgrading. if you want to go with upgraded cpu cooling, then your subtotal comes to about 720 with a good heatsink and fan combo.

 

[jaguarskx]

Thanks for your reply jag, the ram is Pc 2100 and pc2700 would that work on that mobo? I figured 184 pin would work on all mobo's (that accept 184)

Well, that's going to cause the CPU to run slower then because you have DDR 333 RAM. The Athlon 64 X2 needs DDR 400 to run at the correct speed. DDR 400 = 200MHz FSB x 2.

The Athlon X2 4200+ runs at 2.2GHz. The speed is calculated as follows:

FSB x Clock-Multiplier = 200MHz FSB x 11 = 2.2GHz

However, PC2700 is DDR 333 RAM which runs at 166.67MHz FSB. That will force the Athlon X2 4200+ to run slower:

FSB x Clock-Multiplier = 166.67MHz FSB x 11 = 1.83GHz.

You will need to buy DDR 400 RAM unless the almost 400MHz loss in performance is acceptable.

 

[4745454b]

Actually, the ram would default to the lowest of the ram speed, pc2100. (DDR266) What happens next depends on the motherboard. If its a good overclocking motherboard, or at the very least one with lots of different ram ratios, you'll select a ratio that allows your CPU to run at its real speed, while holding the ram to DDR266. (3:2) You only loose the CPU MHz if you stick with 1:1.

 

[jaguarskx]

Since you will need to buy new RAM anyway, then you will probably want to turn your attention to the Core 2 Duo processor. The cheapest C2D CPU is the E6300, for about $183, and is as fast as the X2 4400+/4600+ depending on which benchmarks you look at.

As I mentioned in my first post, AM2 will need DDR2 800 RAM to keep pace with the S939 Athlon & DDR 400 RAM. However, C2D CPUs only requires DDR2 533 to run at stock speed. Therefore RAM is cheaper. You can go with DDR2 667 or 800 if you want to overclock.

On the other hand, motherboards for C2D CPUs are more expensive than AM2 Athlon 64 CPUs because they are newer. But the extra cost of a C2D motherboard is offset by the cheaper price of DDR2 533 RAM.

To sum up in price:

C2D E6300 + DDR2 533 + C2D motherboard = AM2 Athlon + DDR2 800 + AM2 motherboard.

Roughly speaking.

The Core 2 Duo system will be faster.

 

[flasher702]

You can re-use your DDR ram with a single-core s939 build pretty effectively. Don't get an s939 x2 though, they are overpriced.

In order of price and performance these are your good choices:
1. get a single core s939 and re-use your ram
2. Get an AM2 x2 3800+
3. Get C2D

Options 1 and 3 are the better ones, the x2 3800+ is a pretty narrow $/performance niche for a gaming machine.

But you really beg the question: If you're getting 100fps in the games you play why in the hell are you upgrading?!?! Unless your system breaks or you want to play some more resource-hungry games stick with what you have and be happy

 

[flasher702]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103547R

WTH? A $180 s939 x2 4200+ It's actually cheaper than the AM2 one. If you browse CPUs on newegg that isn't even listed. You have to search for it. Pricewatch.com lists the cheapest s939 x2 4200+ as $211. I just payed $193 for my x2 4200+ ~1month ago.

 

[mr_fnord]

Open box is always cheaper. Open box specials don't show up on newegg browse, only search and specials.

 

[bridonca]

This is how you can have your cake and eat it too. This solution will allow you to reuse your DDR memory and AGP video card. Not only that, to future proof it, you can later add DDR2 memory and a PCIe video card when your budget allows. Did I mention this solution will yield the fastest machine in comparison to what is suggested here so far, or that it will easily fit in your $500 budget? Am I nuts? Nope. here is the skinny

Gets an Intel core 2 duo E6600. I pick this chip because of the huge 4 meg cache, which is needed to minimize the speed deficiency of DDR memory, cost $386

As for the motherboard, this is what I pick, the ASRock 775Dual-VSTA http://www.ocworkbench.com/2006/asrock/775Dual-VSTA/g1.htm It slices and dices, etc, etc. and only $55. So what is wrong with it? Nothing too evil. It uses a VIA chipset, and only has PCIe 4x. But even with those minuses, it will still blow the doors off current AMD offerings.

 

[mr_fnord]

For a C2D:

http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819115005
combo to save $10 with:
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813135022
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813135022

You'll get a C2D E6300 with a 965 mobo and a gig of value RAM for $360. You won't be able to use your AGP card in this though, so you'll need another $150 for a video card and maybe $50ish for a PSU.

That isn't a very overclockable board, only +.15V and 266/333 system bus selections, so either the system will clock at 333 with +.15V or it won't and you'll be at stock.


You might also consider building another computer as you go. Leave your current one intact, since all you'll be getting from it is a case, mouse, KB, HD and DVD, and your HD will be PATA anyway. You could probably get all of those components for ~$100. Then, order the new system in pieces as you get money:
case - $20
PSU - <$50
HD - $55
DVD-R - $28
KB - $5
mouse - $5
CPU/MB/RAM - $300-400
Video card - $100-200
= low end gaming system that will be many times faster than what you have, and you'll have two systems.

 

[mr_fnord]

I saw that board on newegg. What kind of performance hit is there with PCIe 4x instead of 16x? I assume it would be noticeable, but there are a fair number of boards that offer a 16x and a 4x for dual video cards...

 

[jaguarskx]

Actually, the ram would default to the lowest of the ram speed, pc2100. (DDR266)

Oops.

Yeah, you are correct. While writing my response I forgot that he had two different types of RAM.

 

[mad-dog]

Look at the bright side, if he wasn't thoroughly confused before, he is now..... :?

 

[jaguarskx]

Look at the bright side, if he wasn't thoroughly confused before, he is now..... :?

Yeah, isn't it fun when lots of people offer tech advice? Especially when it's they contradict each other.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...

 

[4745454b]

Actually Mr._fnord, you're on the right track.

If he buys this motherboard, he can get the 6300 combo for about $325.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128018

This is the Gigabyte DS3, but with onboard graphics. It still has a PCIe 16x upgrade slot however, so he can upgrade his video when he gets the $$$ again. Throw in 2 GBs of OCZ ram for $220 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227118 ($195 after rebate), that leaves $55/$80 for a new PSU if he needs one.

Yes he'll be stuck with onboard, but as I said earlier, better to get a good motherboard and CPU now, then have to upgrade them later. They are the heart and brain of the machine, its easier to do a hip replacement then a brain transplant. If thats still to much, you can always drop down to 1GB instead of two, and upgrade when prices drop.

 

[randomizer]

Maybe he could go for the Asrock 775Dual-VSTA, that way he can keep his agp card until he has enough money to upgrade to pci-e and a new psu. He can even use his old RAM until he has enough to upgrade that too.

EDIT: This has got to be one of the best boards ever made for people who have little cash and an old system that still has reasonable parts in it. Kind of like what the 939Dual-SATA2 was, only now you can keep you RAM too!