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Has anyone gotten DirectX 10 working on an 8800 card?

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November 19, 2006 2:26:36 AM

I know that DirectX 10 requires Vista.

I also heard that the drivers for the 8800 card on Vista are not available yet.

If anyone HAS gotten DirectX 10 to work on Vista, with the 8800 card, could you please post some graphic shots.

I hear that MS Flight Sim X has DirectX 10 support, so maybe some screen shots from that.

TIA
a b U Graphics card
November 19, 2006 3:21:27 AM

no its not out yet.
November 19, 2006 4:48:41 PM

sadly we need to wait till January 30 to see DX10 in action
Related resources
November 19, 2006 5:53:40 PM

I have direct x10 working in Vista with my 6800's....
November 19, 2006 6:44:08 PM

Quote:
I have direct x10 working in Vista with my 6800's....


Seeing as GF6800s physically cannot do DX10, that would difficult. Oh, and even if they could, nVidia haven't released any DX10 drivers yet. :roll:

(And before you come back "Wawawa, my Vista *says* I have DX10...". I know it does. But that doesn't mean you're actually running DX10.)

Synergy6
November 19, 2006 6:57:17 PM

Quote:
I have direct x10 working in Vista with my 6800's....


Seeing as GF6800s physically cannot do DX10, that would difficult. Oh, and even if they could, nVidia haven't released any DX10 drivers yet. :roll:
Actually, you would be able to install it, but the 6800s wouldn't use fully use its features. You'd technically have DX10 installed, but it'll run like DX9.
November 19, 2006 7:07:34 PM

Quote:

Actually, you would be able to install it, but the 6800s wouldn't use fully use its features. You'd technically have DX10 installed, but it'll run like DX9.


I know :)  Hence the bit in brackets.
Synergy6
November 20, 2006 2:55:50 AM

Vista IS dx 10... Dx 10 is not a driver, the geforce drivers are the driver... Doesn't matter what driver I use, in Vista I have DX 10. There will NOT be a DX 9. anything for Vista as of this time. (At least not according to the latest information in MSDN and Technet.)

Most all larger corps by now have a copy of Vista RTM.

OK, my cards cannot make full use of DX 10, but they still work just fine in Aero mode, and have since the Feb. release. 5386, wasn't it?
November 20, 2006 3:01:17 AM

Guy, we are getting of topic here. :?

So DirectX 10 IS in RC1 of Vista.

People now have the Nvidia 8800 card, I am sure someone has tried it with Vista?

Can anyone report that they have an Nvidia 8800 card in Vista?

If so, can you please post some screen shots?
November 20, 2006 3:43:52 AM

I've read that Vista will not have dx10 included on launch. Think it was Tom's that had the article.


I will find it, but also, if u upgrade now from the 6600 which has a 64 or a 128bit memory interface, to a 6800 for 120$ or so with a 256bit, and usually 256 mb of ddr3 memory, those laggs will most likely go away.

Thats not too much money to spend, for now, and when dx10 comes out next summer with more than 3 games to play that utilize the dx10 technology you'll have a larger variety of cards to chose from and lower prises.

For those of you who think that having top of the line products 1st for bragin rights is kool. This is for you, video cards dont come out like cars, motorcycles or tvs(50 inch plasma) with all that is needed to run for aleast 10 years. they come out with little support( drivers-beta usually) games need to catch up and usually we the gamers are the research and developement. So havin said that the 8800s with dx10 capable are not also Backwards compatable. DX10 isnt bwc, maybe they'll change it. But the cards are.

Best advise i can give you is, to spend a little now and say til summer 07 to get the best deals on 4x4 amd or c2d-4, dx10 cards and games that use the dx10 technology.

P.S. I think that microsoft will see the need for dx10 on existing XP and be bwc. Why? Cause of the lack of people upgrading to Vista, when its not really and upgrade. People like to stick with what works and I am 1 of them, so until MS shows that Vista is a operating system i cant do without ( like ME to XP) then im stickin with XP.
a c 171 U Graphics card
November 20, 2006 4:06:03 AM

Quote:
Doesn't matter what driver I use, in Vista I have DX 10.


Not quite. You still need the hardware to support DX10.


Quote:
There will NOT be a DX 9. anything for Vista as of this time. (At least not according to the latest information in MSDN and Technet.)


Really? I thought Vista and XP were going to both use DX9.L?

Quote:
OK, my cards cannot make full use of DX 10, but they still work just fine in Aero mode, and have since the Feb. release. 5386, wasn't it?


Probably because Aero uses DX9, not DX10.
November 20, 2006 4:10:03 AM

1 more reply,

//news.softpedia.com/newsdirectx-10-and-so-it-ends-7762.shtml

check this out.

something only ibm has tried before, another thing to think about when upgrading.
November 20, 2006 5:51:27 AM

Quote:
Vista IS dx 10...
No it isn't... :?

Quote:
Dx 10 is not a driver
You're right about that one, it's a graphics api :wink:

From my understanding of DirectX 10 it will limit the features you're able to use depending on the capabilities of your card.

So yes, you might have DirectX 10 installed but your 6800 isn't gonna make full use of it.

It's kinda like having DirectX 9.0c installed on a system running a TNT2, it'll install but it won't be put to full use :p 
November 20, 2006 6:00:03 AM

To these 'uberclods' it might as well be... I don't have all day to explain the intricacies of Vista's new HAL to newbies that only understand 'plug'n play'...

Back to the point.

Got Vista, and an 8800? If so, any benchmarks yet?
November 20, 2006 6:43:35 AM

Nice Link Naw-yi!

Got one that works? :-) sounds like an interesting article though.
November 20, 2006 7:10:58 AM

DirectX 10 isnt out yet!

and all the news about it says that it isnt backwards compatible so no existing games or benchmarking software will work with it, also no operating system will work with it. Yet.?

if anyone finds a link that states other wise plz let us know.
a c 171 U Graphics card
November 20, 2006 7:11:48 AM

Quote:

It's kinda like having DirectX 9.0c installed on a system running a TNT2, it'll install but it won't be put to full use :p 


I strangely thought of this just now. I remember the first time I had issues with DX. At the time I was running a P3 with a TNT2. I could play any game I wanted, until I got Halo. Halo introduced me the idea of render path. By adding a switch to the shortcut icon, I could change the DX path that would be run. Sadly, I never found a setting that would work with a card as low as a TNT2. Even though I had DX9 installed on my system, my video card couldn't render ANYTHING close to DX9. (matter of fact, the TNT2 isn't even DX7 as it lacks hardware T&L.) Vista uses DX9 for Glass, not DX10. Loading Vista on a system doesn't mean your now seeing DX10. And until games or benchmark programs come out, you still won't see DX10. To answer the question, seeing as there is a lack of DX10 programs, I don't think anyone is using DX10 yet.
November 20, 2006 7:16:47 AM

Quote:
I have direct x10 working in Vista with my 6800's....


:lol: 
November 20, 2006 7:25:44 AM

One question that has been teasing my mind is this:
Are the unified shaders of the G80s being used in DX9? As in, are the shaders "changing" from pixel to vertex and vice versa all the time, or are they fixed when running DX9? Does anyone know?
November 20, 2006 7:26:08 AM

Which part of "you're wrong" don't you get? Vista WILL NOT have ANY version of DX 9.?.!!! The new HAL will not support it, now, later, or ever without a complete recoding.

Go read your tech notes from your TechNet subscription.... (Don't have them handy?)

"No" is a 16 bit word.... And all my engineers still have eight bit brains....
November 20, 2006 7:28:06 AM

What's DX9.0Ex, then? :roll:

(Note to everyone: There's no such thing as DX9.0L anymore, it was renamed to DX9.0Ex)
November 20, 2006 7:29:28 AM

Good question.... I'd love to be able to see the code.

Since I can't, all i can do is observe the results.

So far, they aren't too bad.
November 20, 2006 7:33:36 AM

But if you think about it..if the shaders are fixed to something in DX9 mode, you'll see quite an improvement in performance when they become truly unified in DX10.

However, if they're already unified (as in, changing during runtime), then the results we have now don't seem as great. ;) 
November 20, 2006 7:35:20 AM

Maybe you can tel me where I can find that in my TechNet? Or the aforementioned dx 9.0L?
November 20, 2006 7:37:17 AM

Quote:
One question that has been teasing my mind is this:
Are the unified shaders of the G80s being used in DX9? As in, are the shaders "changing" from pixel to vertex and vice versa all the time, or are they fixed when running DX9? Does anyone know?


I think it would still be using the unified shaders to render both DX9 and DX10.
a c 171 U Graphics card
November 20, 2006 7:37:52 AM

Quote:
Vista WILL NOT have ANY version of DX 9.?


Then why does Glass only need DX9? If you don't want to run glass, you don't even need a DX9 card, as any DX7 or 8 card will work. I think you are confused. XP WILL NOT have ANY version of DX.10. "Ever" according to MS, but that could change if/when they feel like it. It makes no sence for MS to release Vista with no support of <=DX9. It wouldn't run on ANY computers currently out. Why spend millions of dollars on the next OS so that it can run on only 2% of the comptuers in the world?

The part of "you're wrong" I don't get is the fact that you're wrong...

(several people have told you this already, you might want to double check your sources before you look 100% foolish...)

EDIT: Read this link.
http://incrysis.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1490

Assuming this is the same RTsa, he might know what he's talking about.

(LOL, your so sure your right, and you haven't even heard of DX9.L?)
November 20, 2006 7:39:23 AM

Once I get a P.O cut, I'll be able to add a nvidia 8800 to our lab.... Until then I'm guessing on what the performance will be like. I'm an engineer, I don't like guessing.
November 20, 2006 7:42:59 AM

Please go out and do some reading... DX10 and your card do have a relationship, but nothing to do with prior DX versions. Don't you know the difference between an API and a driver? Jeesh....
a c 171 U Graphics card
November 20, 2006 7:50:16 AM

Quote:
Please go out and do some reading...


Oh trust me, judging by your comments, I've done quite a bit more reading about this then you have...

Quote:
DX10 and your card do have a relationship, but nothing to do with prior DX versions. Don't you know the difference between an API and a driver? Jeesh....


Yes, and? DXx and my video card do have a relationship. (level of support comes to mind...) Yes, I know the difference between an API and a driver. Nothing interesting in this post. I'll leave you tonight so you can read up on DX9.L/Ex. Perhaps in the morning you'll have something new to talk about.
November 20, 2006 8:50:09 AM

Quote:
Don't you know the difference between an API and a driver? Jeesh....

Considering you didn't know the difference between and operating system and an graphics api...
Quote:
Vista IS dx 10...

...you shouldn't be criticizing :p 
November 20, 2006 10:12:50 AM

Quote:
EDIT: Read this link.
http://incrysis.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1490

Assuming this is the same RTsa, he might know what he's talking about.
Yup, same RTsa. :D 

I don't know of anyone else, who would use the same nick. ;) 

edit: Considering I've really been digging into Crysis, I've also had to do a lot of research on DX10 and Vista, I do know something. :) 
(then, we have Doc :lol: )
November 20, 2006 4:46:06 PM

What this leads me to believe, it that microsoft is try to get dx10 to work with all existing software and hardware.

wait and see : )
a c 171 U Graphics card
November 20, 2006 5:13:12 PM

I assumed as much. I did a search last night on the word dx9.0ex, and the first link was to the Crysis forum with you talking about it. For those that didn't follow the link, it appears the RTsa is a mod on that forum, with over 3000 posts. Again, if you are a mod on that forum talking about what was rumored to be one of the biggest first DX10 games coming out, I would hope you have a small clue as to whats going on in the DX universe.

I was hoping Croc would have posted something else, perhaps he's still sleeping from his late night reading. Perhaps he'll share some of what he's learned when he wakes up.
November 20, 2006 5:38:13 PM

Quote:
--the first link was to the Crysis forum with you talking about it. For those that didn't follow the link, it appears the RTsa is a mod on that forum, with over 3000 posts. Again, if you are a mod on that forum talking about what was rumored to be one of the biggest first DX10 games coming out, I would hope you have a small clue as to whats going on in the DX universe.
Yeah. You could think like that. You could be right, too. :) 

Still, what I'd really like to know is if the G80 already uses unified shaders or not...
November 20, 2006 6:40:29 PM

I wonder what the difference (in performance) XP SP2's DX9.0c oct and Vista (Final) DX9.0L

Running with a 7900GTO/GTX

i wonder if all this talk about improved Driver/Hardware handling will actuley improve or even affect the currant Generation of Videocards (DX9.0) in anyway!
November 20, 2006 7:09:26 PM

Quote:
I have direct x10 working in Vista with my 6800's....


Seeing as GF6800s physically cannot do DX10, that would difficult. Oh, and even if they could, nVidia haven't released any DX10 drivers yet. :roll:

(And before you come back "Wawawa, my Vista *says* I have DX10...". I know it does. But that doesn't mean you're actually running DX10.)

Synergy6


Might be moot but here goes anyway, DirectX is an API. It's like an onion with layers, the outmost layer is DX10 and the next layers in is DX9. Your drivers tell your card which layer of the onion to execute. You may have DX10 but a driver that uses the DX9 layer, in which case you're executing DX9 calls. Until you have both DX10, a DX10 driver AND a DX10 card, you'll be running DX9.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
a b \ Driver
November 20, 2006 7:35:01 PM

Could you please enlighten me and tell me what does the Hardware Abstraction Layer has to do with DX9/10, I don't really see how it would prevent DX9 from working. Oh and I am not a newbie so you dont have to spare me the intricacies, links will do, no need to rephrase it :)  . And I am not subscribed to TechNet, get enough spam already.

Link
Quote:
DirectX 10 will be available to Windows Vista users only at its introduction. You will not find DirectX 10 being released for the Windows XP operating system. DirectX 10 is deeply embedded into Windows Vista operation and we currently know of no plans by Microsoft to allow Windows XP to officially support the new API. Also embedded into Windows Vista is DirectX 9.0L to allow for compatibility with DirectX 9 components. Think of it like two separate DirectX systems. We will have DirectX 9.0L for DirectX 9 hardware and we will have DirectX 10 for DirectX 10 capable hardware. If you want DirectX 10 you will have to go with Windows Vista as your OS. Because of this we will see an expensive upgrade path associated with the experience of DirectX 10. You will need Windows Vista, DirectX 10 hardware and of course some DirectX 10 coded games.


/Might be DX9.0ex now , but still...

So anyway don't tell people to go read when they are right/partially right.


@RTSa
Quote:
One question that has been teasing my mind is this:
Are the unified shaders of the G80s being used in DX9? As in, are the shaders "changing" from pixel to vertex and vice versa all the time, or are they fixed when running DX9? Does anyone know?


From the architecture of the G80 and after reading many review I get that the 'load balancing' between the PS/GS/VS is made by the threading engine inside the G80 I don't think it is specific to DX10 bu I could be wrong but I don't see any reason why the hardware itself would not 're-configure' on the fly to accommodate the requirements of the game, be a DX10/9 title
November 20, 2006 7:45:54 PM

Quote:
Might be moot but here goes anyway, DirectX is an API. It's like an onion with layers, the outmost layer is DX10 and the next layers in is DX9. Your drivers tell your card which layer of the onion to execute. You may have DX10 but a driver that uses the DX9 layer, in which case you're executing DX9 calls. Until you have both DX10, a DX10 driver AND a DX10 card, you'll be running DX9.


I know :)  Well, I'm not much good at describing software, but I knew the gist of it, so to speak. Cheers for the analogy though, helpful for others too.
Synergy6
January 10, 2007 7:15:37 PM

Quote:
I have direct x10 working in Vista with my 6800's....


Seeing as GF6800s physically cannot do DX10, that would difficult. Oh, and even if they could, nVidia haven't released any DX10 drivers yet. :roll:

(And before you come back "Wawawa, my Vista *says* I have DX10...". I know it does. But that doesn't mean you're actually running DX10.)

Synergy6


Might be moot but here goes anyway, DirectX is an API. It's like an onion with layers, the outmost layer is DX10 and the next layers in is DX9. Your drivers tell your card which layer of the onion to execute. You may have DX10 but a driver that uses the DX9 layer, in which case you're executing DX9 calls. Until you have both DX10, a DX10 driver AND a DX10 card, you'll be running DX9.

Actually its round the other way. Imagine your videocard is in the middle of the onion and the layers go DX10, dx9, DX8 etc. from the inside out, so the outmost layer is the oldest. I'm pretty sure but not certain that the layer (DX version) you use always has to talk in turn to any newer inner layers between it and the video hardware. Thats why DX8 would be slower on a DX10 machine (assuming the same hardware) than a DX8 machine (because it has to talk to the DX9 layer which in turn talks to the DX10 layer which in turn talks to the video hardware).

Dx9.0L is a version of DX9 for vista that I believe has been modified to talk to the DX10 layer as opposed to the original DX9 that talked directly to the video hardware. I believe with DX9.0L its still DX10 which talks to the video card. So its probably slower than the XP version of DX9 which would talk directly to the hardware. Its purpose is to allow DX9 games to run on Vista (not DX10 games to run on XP as The Inquirer originally misreported then retracted).

The driver basically gives the different layers a way to talk to the hardware. A newer driver works deeper in. A DX9 driver allow the DX9 layer to talk to the hardware, a dx10 driver will allow the dx 10 layer to talk to the hardware.
Basically to use DX10 you need the video card in the middle to be DX10, the DX10 onion layer (DX10 itself) and an nVidia driver that would fit directly between the video hardware and the DX10 layer.
Vista RC1 has DX10, but no-one has been able to use it yet as nVidia are only now realeasing their DX10 driver, so first results soon I guess, presuming someone actually has something to run on it, as you also need the game or benchmark program to talk DX10, i.e. is written using the DX10 API.
a c 171 U Graphics card
January 10, 2007 10:32:31 PM

Quote:
you also need the game or benchmark program to talk DX10, i.e. is written using the DX10 API.


I don't know about anyone else, but I haven't heard diddly about any games coming out soon. Flight Sim X, Crysis, etc are supposed to be DX10, but I don't believe a DX10 version of FSX has been released yet. You can finally run Vista with a Nvidia DX10 card and driver, but there aren't any DX10 software titles to run yet. (Remember, Glass is DX9 based, not DX10)
January 10, 2007 10:52:35 PM

Well, you can program one yourself. :D 
a c 171 U Graphics card
January 10, 2007 11:09:55 PM

Sorry, I program SQL and VB6. Neither of these is DX10 AFAIK. If you'd like to program the first DX10 game, be my guest.
January 10, 2007 11:32:34 PM

I think Croc realized he was wrong and he's trying to save himself now. It happens to the best of us.
January 10, 2007 11:59:16 PM

Well unless you get the super secret drivers from Nvidia you wont be testing anything.

Rumor has it that beta driver have some serious problems or that the card performs poorly. As I have 8800 GTX card and legit copy of Vista running I can tell you that it rather frustrating. I can also say that 8800 is rather poorly engineered card or perhaps one with sloppy drivers. Either way it's way to buggy to begin with.

I would love to get it running under Vista 64 though it's hindering my 64bit testing at the moment.
January 11, 2007 12:17:51 AM

Quote:
I think Croc realized he was wrong and he's trying to save himself now. It happens to the best of us.


no, it happens to noobs all the time
January 13, 2007 4:37:46 PM

lol, very true. Good point.
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