F*** HDCP...

[dean7]

Am I the only one that's annoyed with HDCP?

High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) is a form of digital rights management (DRM) developed by Intel Corporation to control digital audio and video content as it travels across Digital Visual Interface (DVI) or High Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) connections. The HDCP specification is proprietary and an implementation of HDCP requires a license.

HDCP is licensed by Digital Content Protection, LLC, a subsidiary of Intel. In addition to paying fees, licensees agree to limit the capabilities of their products. For example, High-definition digital video content must be restricted to DVD quality on non-HDCP compliant video outputs when requested by the source. DVD-Audio content is restricted to DAT quality on non-HDCP digital audio outputs (analog audio outputs have no quality limits). Licensees cannot allow their devices to make copies of content, and must design their products to "effectively frustrate attempts to defeat the content protection requirements."

My frustration is this: HDCP adds another layer of complexity. But who is really affected by this? The people who are pirating? Or people like me that are 100% legit?

All of this DRM BS companies are trying to stack on to everything just slows everything down and is a pain for legitimate consumers. Can you imagine if everything moves this way? How long will it be before you have to have a set of headphones (that have to be compliant with some spec) with an encryption key just to plug in to your MP3 player?

This + MS "Genuine Software Validation" (e.g. "Genuine Waste of my Friggin' time") + iTunes + Sony Rootkit (a harsh blow to Sony, I'll admit, but what Rootkits have they slid on to our PCs that we didn't detect???) = a bunch of BS. These companies are going as far as invading our privacy / making everything a big pain in the butt, to protect their own interests (seriously, DVD sniffing dogs???).

Why can't these people just read "who moved my cheese", figure out how to swim instead of sink in this new era, and move on? Sure, the media industry might be getting tough, but it's not because of DRM not being stringent enough. It's changing because people aren't as interested in "Lethal Weapon #34", and independent studios are able to produce higher quality films (with the help of the latest round of cameras/software).

[/rant]

Anyway, I wanted to hear other people's thoughts on this.

By the way, this is a hilarious quote on the DVD-sniffing dogs:

For the time being, Lucky and Flo are working at a FedEx shipping center at Stansted Airport where they are sniffing packages that are shipped around the world. Trainers say the dogs have been notifying customs agents of packages with discs in them. The packages have been opened but so far no pirated movies have been found.

"We're encouraged by this. It's a new tool against piracy but we welcome it and hope others will adopt such practices," said Bernards.

So, they have invaded privacy by opening packages, and found 0 pirated movies. And they are encouraged by this? So they are opening people's stuff for no reason and that makes them happy? Priceless... :lol:

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=1944531&page=1

 

[rodney_ws]

How 'bout you tell us what you're REALLY thinking? Don't hold back man.

 

[rodney_ws]

Here are the top 10 reasons you should be against DRM...

http://www.learnoutloud.com/content/blog/archives/2006/11/the_top_10_argu.html

Of those, I thought #7 was the best argument that most people could accept and understand... the thought of having to buy something twice when you still have your original copy... well, that's just wrong.

 

[nukemaster]

You forum picture works well with your mood.....

but yes HDCP can suck my balls

 

[Talon]

I agree, at the end of the day they're just alienating the consumers they claim to be "helping".

Pirates will always find a way no matter what they do and the sooner they accept this and put their $ and time to better use the better off we'll all be.

If anything I'm more discouraged than ever to plunk my hard earned cash down for a movie unless I just love that movie completely.

To put that in perspective I used to buy tons of movies every month just based on "I think this might be worth watching". Now I give it long and hard thought before making a purchase because they aren't working to help me at all. /rant off

 

[dean7]

How 'bout you tell us what you're REALLY thinking? Don't hold back man.

Alright, but it's not going to be pretty .

 

[dean7]

You forum picture works well with your mood.....

but yes HDCP can suck my balls

Seriously, you should try an angry rant sometime. I feel MUCH better now! :lol:

(I was in a bad mood to begin with because an idiot rear-ended my car while I was sitting at a stop light + I lost my badge and have to wear a "pink contractor badge of shame" at work).

@Talon:
Yeah, pirates will ALWAYS find a way to crack DRM/avoid it completely (e.g. "DVD Jon" cracking iTunes DRM).

@rodney_ws:
Yes, when I read #7 it made me feel even more aggro about DRM (hard to believe, I know).

Anyway, I'm glad other people recognize the absurdity of DRM. I'm feeling much less aggro now.

 

[mesarectifier]

When will record companies and movie studios and media conglomerates realise that DRM willnever work, and all it does is get in the way of regular folk.

 

[dean7]

ye i don't like it especially as HD DVD's are supposed to come with a pretty decent copyprotection anyway. there is no need to add another layer on it. not that i will buy one unless i have to but it is annoying knowing that my monitor is better than most "HD" tv's but since i don't have HDCP i might not be able to view dvd's in their proper res although i am not sure if that is going to be standard until a few years from now.

still, this is crap and everyone know it bar the companies who want it cause it will force you to upgrade which is the main reason IMO.

Good point... I hadn't thought about the handy fact that it forces you to not only upgrade your DVD drive, but you have to make sure your monitor/GPU are HDCP-ready as well.

When will record companies and movie studios and media conglomerates realise that DRM willnever work, and all it does is get in the way of regular folk.

It seems like they will never "get it". The problem is: they are viewing any downloaded/pirated media as "lost revenue". But, that's not the case. Many people that illegally download MP3s wouldn't download them/buy them if they had to pay for them. I mean seriously, if it's free and you have a fast connection you aren't going to think twice about downloading it to hear it. If you're paying $17 a CD or $10 on iTunes, you're going to think twice before buying it.

E.G. if I can download an episode of Lost for free, I'd download it (even if I'm not that in to it). If I have to pay $1.99 an episode, there's no way I'm going to download it unless I'm a fanatic (because I'd rather watch it for free on TV).

So, it seems like their numbers are incorrect.

 

[dean7]

One other thing: if you buy DRM-protected media from some place like iTunes, you are getting horrible quality compared to real DVDs/CDs. I personally can't stand 128kbps AAC/MP3 (I rip CDs to FLAC for my MP3 player).

Here's some info on video quality (as you can see, iTunes video looks horrible even compared to regular DVD quality):
http://www.hackingnetflix.com/2006/09/itunes_movie_qu.html

Here's some info on audio quality:
http://www.recordstorereview.com/misc/aacmp3.shtml
http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/1729
http://tweakhound.com/itunes/fandq.htm

If one of these DRM-heavy music/video stores would offer their stuff in extremely high quality (e.g. lossless), it might make the thought of dealing with DRM a little less harsh. But, since DRM = annoying, and quality = crap, I don't see why anybody would deal with these services.

 

[Hawkeye22]

I know the topic is HDCP, but since mp3's and such were thrown into the mix, don't forget about all the DRM that goes into games and other software. There is a lot of DRM out there. Until recently I wouldn't even buy an Ubisoft game because it used starforce. How many times have you read the small print on a game and find that it says "this disc contains copy protection and may not work in all cd/dvd drives"?

 

[dean7]

I know the topic is HDCP, but since mp3's and such were thrown into the mix, don't forget about all the DRM that goes into games and other software. There is a lot of DRM out there. Until recently I wouldn't even buy an Ubisoft game because it used starforce. How many times have you read the small print on a game and find that it says "this disc contains copy protection and may not work in all cd/dvd drives"?

Haha this thread is now an all-out DRM flame-fest! :lol:

But, yes, some games' DRM is absolutely insane. Why can't everybody be like Bethesda???

On a side-note: I use STEAM and I don't mind it. Sure, it encrypts games (and I wonder if there is a performance hit when it decrypts) but it's really convenient to use! When I want a new game on steam I hit the "buy" button, download it, and I'm good to go. Plus, there is no quality hit for going with STEAM vs. boxed versions of software (e.g. if it was like music services, the texture packs would be compressed to hell to save bandwidth).

 

[icbluscrn]

I for one like hdcp or at the least dont mind it as much as i used t, it might be a pain to get used to but its not that bad. I like the idea of making it harder for pirates. IMO. if the goverment is not going to crack down on these "pirates" then the companies have a right to try any way possible. I am also glad we have a universal standard like hdcp imagine if each company came out with there different version of cp.

I dont see how hdcp is "getting in the way of regular folk" its rather simple

 

[utaka95]

It's getting in the way if my present componetry is fully capable of outputting compliant resolutions, but I can't view the new media in it's full glory because I didn't buy a new vid card, monitor, etc that is HDCP compliant. THAT's how it gets in the average Joe's way.

 

[ches111]

Worse yet!!

Ever try to implement an HDCP compliant interface? My upscaling DVD player has an HDCP compliant HDMI output that I send to my projector. I send it via an equalizing HDMI switch since a standard straight through will not work. Without the eq/amp in the switch the HDMI/HDCP handshake times out.

My Dish receiver often has issues too (even though it throws a strong HDMI/HDCP signal).

HDCP over long runs just does not work well. My run is only 25ft and with a very good cable. Gggggrrrrrrrrr....

 

[dean7]

Bingo. By forcing everybody to upgrade their hardware to comply with the new standard.

 

[dean7]

See, that's one of the things that makes me aggro over this. It adds another layer of problems. One more thing to go wrong. One more thing to troubleshoot.

And why? I don't see how it's going to hurt pirates that much. They should focus on DVD encryption, not signal encryption.

yep, just look at my comp. i can play oblivion at 19 x 12 res which is higher than 1080p(by a bit) but i cannot it seems use anything which has HDCP. that is just not right. having to buy a certain dvd player is one thing but having all the other stuff as well, that is just ridiculous.

What? You mean you don't want to buy new graphics card, HD-DVD drive and monitor???

 

[Alyarbank]

I remember how the advent of cassette recorders put the record industry out of business...... 8O
Wait their still here!....Chasing after downloaders of mp3's! LMAO! :lol:

This stuff is not necesary, these companies have thrived without these technologies this long. Their mistake IMO is they have failed to embrace the new technology. Their content is not as compelling as it once was. They should be innovating new products, not sueing their customers. :!:

 

[ches111]

IC,

You might want to try your universal standard out on a cable longer than 6ft.

You see I have an HDCP compliant vid card that can not lock up my projector on a digital out because of the HDCP handshake, it will not even lockup through my switch.

I have to take my PC over to my projector and place it on a table directly under it. That way I can use a 6ft HDMI cable to get the PJ to lock.

I now have to search to find the perfect vid card that can get an HDCP compliant handshake over a 25ft (high dollar) HDMI cable.

No inconvenience at all none zip zilch nada

Mind you, standard DVI cable interfaces (the base for which HDMI/HDCP is built upon) has been tested at lengths up to 50ft with no sparkles even...

When ya add the HDCP handshake there becomes the issue.

Nope, no problem at all with that standard.

 

[ches111]

Alyar,

Now there is an accurate well thought out response (of course it falls completely in line with what I have been telling folks for years ).

The recording industry missed the iTunes bus and now they are backpedaling trying to get their piece of that pie.

They ignored the MP3 craze and now that it is ingrained in our commonality they are worried they do not have enough controls.

Anyone remember farmclub.com? No it is not about animals and stuff folks do with them... It was a MP3 site where no-name bands placed their music up for voting. If your music was the most downloaded and best voted you got an appearance on the farmclub.com TV show. If you presented well there they offered a recording contract right there.

Please see FARMCLUB.COM

The RIAA was furious because they no longer controlled the artists. Farmclub.com went away very quickly... Too much pressure from outside influences...

 

[dean7]

Yeah... I hate the RIAA. They take whatever "art" might be found in music and replace it with Britney Spears. Then they try to strongarm anybody that gets in their way and sue their customers.

Then they blame lack of DRM for their lack of sales. :lol:

 

[rodney_ws]

The RIAA was furious because they no longer controlled the artists. Farmclub.com went away very quickly... Too much pressure from outside influences...

Not trying to hijack this or anything... but that's kinda like big oil and the electric car. Looking out for itself at the expense of the rest of us.

 

[plankmeister]

The thing is, all the people with the power are trying to make their shareholders happy. They do this by ensuring that their product is bought, which obviously nets them money. Piracy robs them of this money (even though it's actually a very small amount) So the people with the power sit around and think... "Hmmm... wouldn't it be great if people HAD to buy our product? How can we do that?" And they get some technical guys in and say "We want people to be forced to buy our digital data. How can we do that?" And the technical guys (obviously on a good contract) say "Well... we can encrypt it!"

So, the cascade effect is due to the fact that the people at the top want to please their shareholders. So if we could somehow prevent these shareholders from getting their money, the whole house of cards would collapse. But this means absolutely abandoning all music labels (or other digital content providers) that support DRM and forcing the entire digital content market to adopt new strategies.

And *that* is the problem. Joe Public can't imagine not being able to buy that track he heard on the radio earlier from iTunes, and the shareholders can't imagine a world where they don't have big houses and Ferarris. So the cycle continues, vicious as it is.

Perhaps we should organise a "International Abandonment of Digital Content Download Day" (or IADCDD. Hey... snappy!) but instead of a day, run it for a month. With the big labels out of business, the smaller independent labels would undoubtedly lead the way in new market approaches.

One thing I think is great is that here in Denmark, you can go to the library and get virtually ANY CD or DVD and borrow it for free! So it is possible to hear/watch digital content in Denmark 100% legally without paying anything I'm amazed it's possible the more I think about it. Those shareholders would surely be choking on their caviar if they found out!

 

[Alyarbank]

Exactly... The artists are the ones who suffer for it. Now the record execs sign small deals with pop-tarts as many call them and use studio magic to make it sellable and they get busted lip-syncing. I remeber when I was young bands had a following and put on bigger and better produtions as the progressed, now they just sort of fade away after 3 CD's...

 

[dean7]

Good point. I guess this is a combination of a bunch of different people trying to preserve their contracts, jobs, status, stockholder happiness, etc. and doesn't have much to do with "reality" per se.

Perhaps we should organise a "International Abandonment of Digital Content Download Day" (or IADCDD. Hey... snappy!) but instead of a day, run it for a month. With the big labels out of business, the smaller independent labels would undoubtedly lead the way in new market approaches.

Tell me more... :lol:

One thing I think is great is that here in Denmark, you can go to the library and get virtually ANY CD or DVD and borrow it for free! So it is possible to hear/watch digital content in Denmark 100% legally without paying anything Smile I'm amazed it's possible the more I think about it. Those shareholders would surely be choking on their caviar if they found out!

You know the insane thing? You can do the same here in the USA. Our public libraries have tons of CDs/DVDs you can borrow for free.

I guess the industry is trying to preserve their public image? I mean, if they cracked down on every library in the USA they would be evil fiends hated by everybody. But, they think they can get away with suing single moms and come out unscathed (and maybe they're right, because sales certainly haven't stopped).