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F*** HDCP...

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November 20, 2006 3:27:00 PM

Am I the only one that's annoyed with HDCP?

Quote:
High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) is a form of digital rights management (DRM) developed by Intel Corporation to control digital audio and video content as it travels across Digital Visual Interface (DVI) or High Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) connections. The HDCP specification is proprietary and an implementation of HDCP requires a license.

HDCP is licensed by Digital Content Protection, LLC, a subsidiary of Intel. In addition to paying fees, licensees agree to limit the capabilities of their products. For example, High-definition digital video content must be restricted to DVD quality on non-HDCP compliant video outputs when requested by the source. DVD-Audio content is restricted to DAT quality on non-HDCP digital audio outputs (analog audio outputs have no quality limits). Licensees cannot allow their devices to make copies of content, and must design their products to "effectively frustrate attempts to defeat the content protection requirements."


My frustration is this: HDCP adds another layer of complexity. But who is really affected by this? The people who are pirating? Or people like me that are 100% legit?

All of this DRM BS companies are trying to stack on to everything just slows everything down and is a pain for legitimate consumers. Can you imagine if everything moves this way? How long will it be before you have to have a set of headphones (that have to be compliant with some spec) with an encryption key just to plug in to your MP3 player?

This + MS "Genuine Software Validation" (e.g. "Genuine Waste of my Friggin' time") + iTunes + Sony Rootkit (a harsh blow to Sony, I'll admit, but what Rootkits have they slid on to our PCs that we didn't detect???) = a bunch of BS. These companies are going as far as invading our privacy / making everything a big pain in the butt, to protect their own interests (seriously, DVD sniffing dogs???).

Why can't these people just read "who moved my cheese", figure out how to swim instead of sink in this new era, and move on? Sure, the media industry might be getting tough, but it's not because of DRM not being stringent enough. It's changing because people aren't as interested in "Lethal Weapon #34", and independent studios are able to produce higher quality films (with the help of the latest round of cameras/software).

[/rant]

Anyway, I wanted to hear other people's thoughts on this.

By the way, this is a hilarious quote on the DVD-sniffing dogs:
Quote:
For the time being, Lucky and Flo are working at a FedEx shipping center at Stansted Airport where they are sniffing packages that are shipped around the world. Trainers say the dogs have been notifying customs agents of packages with discs in them. The packages have been opened but so far no pirated movies have been found.

"We're encouraged by this. It's a new tool against piracy but we welcome it and hope others will adopt such practices," said Bernards.


So, they have invaded privacy by opening packages, and found 0 pirated movies. And they are encouraged by this? So they are opening people's stuff for no reason and that makes them happy? Priceless... :lol: 

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=1944531&page=...

More about : hdcp

November 20, 2006 3:55:36 PM

How 'bout you tell us what you're REALLY thinking? Don't hold back man.
November 20, 2006 3:57:49 PM

Here are the top 10 reasons you should be against DRM...

http://www.learnoutloud.com/content/blog/archives/2006/...

Of those, I thought #7 was the best argument that most people could accept and understand... the thought of having to buy something twice when you still have your original copy... well, that's just wrong.
Related resources
a c 110 U Graphics card
November 20, 2006 4:06:19 PM

You forum picture works well with your mood..... :) 

but yes HDCP can suck my balls
November 20, 2006 4:07:03 PM

I agree, at the end of the day they're just alienating the consumers they claim to be "helping".

Pirates will always find a way no matter what they do and the sooner they accept this and put their $ and time to better use the better off we'll all be.

If anything I'm more discouraged than ever to plunk my hard earned cash down for a movie unless I just love that movie completely.

To put that in perspective I used to buy tons of movies every month just based on "I think this might be worth watching". Now I give it long and hard thought before making a purchase because they aren't working to help me at all. /rant off
November 20, 2006 4:09:58 PM

Quote:
How 'bout you tell us what you're REALLY thinking? Don't hold back man.

Alright, but it's not going to be pretty ;) .
November 20, 2006 4:17:44 PM

Quote:
You forum picture works well with your mood..... :) 

but yes HDCP can suck my balls

Seriously, you should try an angry rant sometime. I feel MUCH better now! :lol: 

(I was in a bad mood to begin with because an idiot rear-ended my car while I was sitting at a stop light + I lost my badge and have to wear a "pink contractor badge of shame" at work).

@Talon:
Yeah, pirates will ALWAYS find a way to crack DRM/avoid it completely (e.g. "DVD Jon" cracking iTunes DRM).

@rodney_ws:
Yes, when I read #7 it made me feel even more aggro about DRM (hard to believe, I know).

Anyway, I'm glad other people recognize the absurdity of DRM. I'm feeling much less aggro now.
November 20, 2006 4:28:30 PM

When will record companies and movie studios and media conglomerates realise that DRM willnever work, and all it does is get in the way of regular folk.
November 20, 2006 4:42:21 PM

Quote:
ye i don't like it especially as HD DVD's are supposed to come with a pretty decent copyprotection anyway. there is no need to add another layer on it. not that i will buy one unless i have to but it is annoying knowing that my monitor is better than most "HD" tv's but since i don't have HDCP i might not be able to view dvd's in their proper res although i am not sure if that is going to be standard until a few years from now.

still, this is crap and everyone know it bar the companies who want it cause it will force you to upgrade which is the main reason IMO.

Good point... I hadn't thought about the handy fact that it forces you to not only upgrade your DVD drive, but you have to make sure your monitor/GPU are HDCP-ready as well.

Quote:
When will record companies and movie studios and media conglomerates realise that DRM willnever work, and all it does is get in the way of regular folk.

It seems like they will never "get it". The problem is: they are viewing any downloaded/pirated media as "lost revenue". But, that's not the case. Many people that illegally download MP3s wouldn't download them/buy them if they had to pay for them. I mean seriously, if it's free and you have a fast connection you aren't going to think twice about downloading it to hear it. If you're paying $17 a CD or $10 on iTunes, you're going to think twice before buying it.

E.G. if I can download an episode of Lost for free, I'd download it (even if I'm not that in to it). If I have to pay $1.99 an episode, there's no way I'm going to download it unless I'm a fanatic (because I'd rather watch it for free on TV).

So, it seems like their numbers are incorrect.
November 20, 2006 5:05:16 PM

One other thing: if you buy DRM-protected media from some place like iTunes, you are getting horrible quality compared to real DVDs/CDs. I personally can't stand 128kbps AAC/MP3 (I rip CDs to FLAC for my MP3 player).

Here's some info on video quality (as you can see, iTunes video looks horrible even compared to regular DVD quality):
http://www.hackingnetflix.com/2006/09/itunes_movie_qu.h...

Here's some info on audio quality:
http://www.recordstorereview.com/misc/aacmp3.shtml
http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/1729
http://tweakhound.com/itunes/fandq.htm

If one of these DRM-heavy music/video stores would offer their stuff in extremely high quality (e.g. lossless), it might make the thought of dealing with DRM a little less harsh. But, since DRM = annoying, and quality = crap, I don't see why anybody would deal with these services.
a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2006 5:18:52 PM

I know the topic is HDCP, but since mp3's and such were thrown into the mix, don't forget about all the DRM that goes into games and other software. There is a lot of DRM out there. Until recently I wouldn't even buy an Ubisoft game because it used starforce. How many times have you read the small print on a game and find that it says "this disc contains copy protection and may not work in all cd/dvd drives"?
November 20, 2006 5:32:39 PM

Quote:
I know the topic is HDCP, but since mp3's and such were thrown into the mix, don't forget about all the DRM that goes into games and other software. There is a lot of DRM out there. Until recently I wouldn't even buy an Ubisoft game because it used starforce. How many times have you read the small print on a game and find that it says "this disc contains copy protection and may not work in all cd/dvd drives"?


Haha this thread is now an all-out DRM flame-fest! :lol: 

But, yes, some games' DRM is absolutely insane. Why can't everybody be like Bethesda???

On a side-note: I use STEAM and I don't mind it. Sure, it encrypts games (and I wonder if there is a performance hit when it decrypts) but it's really convenient to use! When I want a new game on steam I hit the "buy" button, download it, and I'm good to go. Plus, there is no quality hit for going with STEAM vs. boxed versions of software (e.g. if it was like music services, the texture packs would be compressed to hell to save bandwidth).
November 20, 2006 5:51:09 PM

I for one like hdcp or at the least dont mind it as much as i used t, it might be a pain to get used to but its not that bad. I like the idea of making it harder for pirates. IMO. if the goverment is not going to crack down on these "pirates" then the companies have a right to try any way possible. I am also glad we have a universal standard like hdcp imagine if each company came out with there different version of cp.

I dont see how hdcp is "getting in the way of regular folk" its rather simple
November 20, 2006 6:03:33 PM

It's getting in the way if my present componetry is fully capable of outputting compliant resolutions, but I can't view the new media in it's full glory because I didn't buy a new vid card, monitor, etc that is HDCP compliant. THAT's how it gets in the average Joe's way.
November 20, 2006 6:07:19 PM

Worse yet!!

Ever try to implement an HDCP compliant interface? My upscaling DVD player has an HDCP compliant HDMI output that I send to my projector. I send it via an equalizing HDMI switch since a standard straight through will not work. Without the eq/amp in the switch the HDMI/HDCP handshake times out.

My Dish receiver often has issues too (even though it throws a strong HDMI/HDCP signal).

HDCP over long runs just does not work well. My run is only 25ft and with a very good cable. Gggggrrrrrrrrr....
November 20, 2006 6:07:48 PM

Bingo. By forcing everybody to upgrade their hardware to comply with the new standard.
November 20, 2006 6:11:49 PM

See, that's one of the things that makes me aggro over this. It adds another layer of problems. One more thing to go wrong. One more thing to troubleshoot.

And why? I don't see how it's going to hurt pirates that much. They should focus on DVD encryption, not signal encryption.

Quote:
yep, just look at my comp. i can play oblivion at 19 x 12 res which is higher than 1080p(by a bit) but i cannot it seems use anything which has HDCP. that is just not right. having to buy a certain dvd player is one thing but having all the other stuff as well, that is just ridiculous.

What? You mean you don't want to buy new graphics card, HD-DVD drive and monitor??? ;) 
November 20, 2006 6:15:00 PM

I remember how the advent of cassette recorders put the record industry out of business...... 8O
Wait their still here!....Chasing after downloaders of mp3's! LMAO! :lol: 

This stuff is not necesary, these companies have thrived without these technologies this long. Their mistake IMO is they have failed to embrace the new technology. Their content is not as compelling as it once was. They should be innovating new products, not sueing their customers. :!:
November 20, 2006 6:16:40 PM

IC,

You might want to try your universal standard out on a cable longer than 6ft.

You see I have an HDCP compliant vid card that can not lock up my projector on a digital out because of the HDCP handshake, it will not even lockup through my switch.

I have to take my PC over to my projector and place it on a table directly under it. That way I can use a 6ft HDMI cable to get the PJ to lock.

I now have to search to find the perfect vid card that can get an HDCP compliant handshake over a 25ft (high dollar) HDMI cable.

No inconvenience at all ;)  none ;)  zip ;)  zilch:)  nada ;) 

Mind you, standard DVI cable interfaces (the base for which HDMI/HDCP is built upon) has been tested at lengths up to 50ft with no sparkles even...

When ya add the HDCP handshake there becomes the issue.

Nope, no problem at all with that standard.
November 20, 2006 6:23:20 PM

Alyar,

Now there is an accurate well thought out response (of course it falls completely in line with what I have been telling folks for years ;) ).

The recording industry missed the iTunes bus and now they are backpedaling trying to get their piece of that pie.

They ignored the MP3 craze and now that it is ingrained in our commonality they are worried they do not have enough controls.

Anyone remember farmclub.com? No it is not about animals and stuff folks do with them... :)  It was a MP3 site where no-name bands placed their music up for voting. If your music was the most downloaded and best voted you got an appearance on the farmclub.com TV show. If you presented well there they offered a recording contract right there.

Please see FARMCLUB.COM

The RIAA was furious because they no longer controlled the artists. Farmclub.com went away very quickly... Too much pressure from outside influences...
November 20, 2006 6:27:57 PM

Yeah... I hate the RIAA. They take whatever "art" might be found in music and replace it with Britney Spears. Then they try to strongarm anybody that gets in their way and sue their customers.

Then they blame lack of DRM for their lack of sales. :lol: 
November 20, 2006 6:29:56 PM

Quote:
The RIAA was furious because they no longer controlled the artists. Farmclub.com went away very quickly... Too much pressure from outside influences...

Not trying to hijack this or anything... but that's kinda like big oil and the electric car. Looking out for itself at the expense of the rest of us.
November 20, 2006 6:33:14 PM

The thing is, all the people with the power are trying to make their shareholders happy. They do this by ensuring that their product is bought, which obviously nets them money. Piracy robs them of this money (even though it's actually a very small amount) So the people with the power sit around and think... "Hmmm... wouldn't it be great if people HAD to buy our product? How can we do that?" And they get some technical guys in and say "We want people to be forced to buy our digital data. How can we do that?" And the technical guys (obviously on a good contract) say "Well... we can encrypt it!"

So, the cascade effect is due to the fact that the people at the top want to please their shareholders. So if we could somehow prevent these shareholders from getting their money, the whole house of cards would collapse. But this means absolutely abandoning all music labels (or other digital content providers) that support DRM and forcing the entire digital content market to adopt new strategies.

And *that* is the problem. Joe Public can't imagine not being able to buy that track he heard on the radio earlier from iTunes, and the shareholders can't imagine a world where they don't have big houses and Ferarris. So the cycle continues, vicious as it is.

Perhaps we should organise a "International Abandonment of Digital Content Download Day" (or IADCDD. Hey... snappy!) but instead of a day, run it for a month. With the big labels out of business, the smaller independent labels would undoubtedly lead the way in new market approaches.

One thing I think is great is that here in Denmark, you can go to the library and get virtually ANY CD or DVD and borrow it for free! So it is possible to hear/watch digital content in Denmark 100% legally without paying anything :)  I'm amazed it's possible the more I think about it. Those shareholders would surely be choking on their caviar if they found out!
November 20, 2006 6:42:17 PM

Exactly... The artists are the ones who suffer for it. Now the record execs sign small deals with pop-tarts as many call them and use studio magic to make it sellable and they get busted lip-syncing. I remeber when I was young bands had a following and put on bigger and better produtions as the progressed, now they just sort of fade away after 3 CD's...
November 20, 2006 6:50:29 PM

Good point. I guess this is a combination of a bunch of different people trying to preserve their contracts, jobs, status, stockholder happiness, etc. and doesn't have much to do with "reality" per se.

Quote:
Perhaps we should organise a "International Abandonment of Digital Content Download Day" (or IADCDD. Hey... snappy!) but instead of a day, run it for a month. With the big labels out of business, the smaller independent labels would undoubtedly lead the way in new market approaches.

Tell me more... :lol: 

Quote:
One thing I think is great is that here in Denmark, you can go to the library and get virtually ANY CD or DVD and borrow it for free! So it is possible to hear/watch digital content in Denmark 100% legally without paying anything Smile I'm amazed it's possible the more I think about it. Those shareholders would surely be choking on their caviar if they found out!

You know the insane thing? You can do the same here in the USA. Our public libraries have tons of CDs/DVDs you can borrow for free.

I guess the industry is trying to preserve their public image? I mean, if they cracked down on every library in the USA they would be evil fiends hated by everybody. But, they think they can get away with suing single moms and come out unscathed (and maybe they're right, because sales certainly haven't stopped).
November 20, 2006 7:03:39 PM

Quote:
Exactly... The artists are the ones who suffer for it. Now the record execs sign small deals with pop-tarts as many call them and use studio magic to make it sellable and they get busted lip-syncing.

Well, now I think that PCs are helping level the playing field a bit. It's getting easier to make high-quality recordings in home studios and the like, and that's one of the reasons the record industry is in hot water. Previously, when the options were good recording (e.g. pop bands) or nasty sounding recordings (e.g. indie of the yesteryears) most people went for the good recordings, mistaking it for better music.

Now, indie bands are making it big, and it's kind of shaking up the whole industry. Record labels are trying to just sign all of the bands, but there seem to be more that are not willing to let record labels crush the life out of their CDs.

I am not a huge fan of Offspring, but their only OK CD was Smash (which was the best-selling independently recorded CD of it's time AFAIK). After they released that, they were bought up by Sony and we all know what happened to their subsequent releases (if I didn't really like Smash, I friggin' hate every other CD after that).

Quote:
I remeber when I was young bands had a following and put on bigger and better produtions as the progressed, now they just sort of fade away after 3 CD's...

Yeah, I guess that's the difference between the Beatles and Chumbawumba :D . Most pop bands these days are nothing more than flashy BS that's popular for 30 days, then people can't stand the sound of it.
November 20, 2006 7:04:51 PM

We are just now seeing HDCP as an answer because the MPAA is in the same boat as the RIAA was many years ago..

They thought the bandwidth would never be enough to download a movie (no way). Then they found that people were just doing the download overnight thing. Then the bit torrent thing via high speed internet (1mb/s or better)... Then came real high speed internet (5meg to even 10 meg down now).

Oops... We need to do something about this.

People are renting DVDs and copying them? Oh no....

The equation is simple.. Offer the music and video at better prices and in a convenient manner of distribution and people will buy.. Lets look at iTunes. Since its release (albeit tied to the iPod) it has been a great revenue maker.

I would much rather buy once rather than rent multiple times if I want to see something again.

The funny thing is if they had implemented this I think there would be MUCH MUCH less piracy. Who wants to steal something that they could buy on the cheap (only a few folks with real problems :) ).

Theft is going to happen. But reasonable, convenient offerings are always going to bring people back around.
a c 359 U Graphics card
November 20, 2006 7:14:02 PM

Quote:
I mean seriously, if it's free and you have a fast connection you aren't going to think twice about downloading it to hear it. If you're paying $17 a CD or $10 on iTunes, you're going to think twice before buying it.


As a consumer I agree. I've downloaded some songs just to determine if the album is worth purchasing since there isn't a radio station in NYC that broadcasts black/death/thrash metal. If the music sucks then I won't buy the CD; either way I delete the downloaded songs. I prefer to encode my music to OGG files. FLAC would be better, but my iRiver HP140 doesn't support FLAC. MP3 just sucks especially when you encode classical music; all the background instruments just get mushed together. Too much detail is lost in my opinion.

From the media industry's perspective, I'm sure they would consider what I've done to be illegal, even if I did delete the mp3 files and eventually buy the CD (unless it sucks). I suppose DRM is a necessary evil for them to protect their revenues, but DRM is only going to deter the casual downloader. More determined people will find a way to crack DRM.

If there's a will, then there's a way.
November 20, 2006 7:17:57 PM

[SOAPBOX] Most music these days is nothing more than "formula" or "canned" music.

Insert hot person, add somebody else's voice (maybe their own in a non-threatening/non talent song), release the heck out of it, pimp it everywhere, pay some other stars for endorsement and throw it out there to see if it floats. You know what floats right ;) 

Please see the Simpsons (no not Homer :) )

The real artists are discouraged/hidden from view because they will actually shed light on the recording industries poor quality crud they are trying to pass off as music.

A late night listen to MTV will more than confirm this.. The music/lyrics is almost identical. That is the part that kills me too, the music (not vocalist) is being hampered too. [/SOAPBOX]
November 20, 2006 7:19:47 PM

Well, the problem is: they don't want to make a reasonable amount of money. They want to make an insane amount of money (e.g. that's why it costs them probably like $1-$2 to print CDs yet they charge %1000 of that).

They have basically had their golden days, and they can go down one of two paths...

1. Admit that technology has made the market for media more competitive, and start offering more competitive rates/technologies without DRM (seriously, how long have we been able to copy CDs? Why haven't they freaked out about that?)

2. Not admit that the industry has changed, and instead blame it on digital media. Sue as many people as they can to try to strong-arm everybody in to being afraid of downloading MP3s. Go on a downward spiral to bankruptcy, clawing at everybody around them all the while.
November 20, 2006 7:23:19 PM

Reasonable $ amounts per song * a much greater number of legal downloads = boat loads of money. Just ask Apple. ;) 

forgot part of the equation:

Boat loads of money = Insane amounts of money ;) 
November 20, 2006 7:27:39 PM

Quote:
As a consumer I agree. I've downloaded some songs just to determine if the album is worth purchasing since there isn't a radio station in NYC that broadcasts black/death/thrash metal. If the music sucks then I won't buy the CD; either way I delete the downloaded songs. I prefer to encode my music to OGG files. FLAC would be better, but my iRiver HP140 doesn't support FLAC. MP3 just sucks especially when you encode classical music; all the background instruments just get mushed together. Too much detail is lost in my opinion.

BTW, I have Cowon iAUDIO X5 and love it... supports FLAC and I encode all my CDs I want to be mobile in FLAC. You should check 'em out when you go to upgrade to a new player (hopefully they will release a newer model with an interface that has more "cool" factor).

Once you start to hear exactly what MP3 compression does to your music, it just becomes easier and easier to spot (and yes, especially on something like classical music).

Quote:
From the media industry's perspective, I'm sure they would consider what I've done to be illegal, even if I did delete the mp3 files and eventually buy the CD (unless it sucks). I suppose DRM is a necessary evil for them to protect their revenues, but DRM is only going to deter the casual downloader. More determined people will find a way to crack DRM.

If there's a will, then there's a way.

Yeah, I'm sure they wouldn't be pleased with you for downloading illegal content to demo the CDs even if you buy them later. :D 

Yes, people might crack DRM, but most "pirates" are going to avoid DRM completely. Pirates don't try to crack a bunch of iTunes songs... they just download FLAC/MP3/OGG/Whatever and play it with Winamp, avoiding DRM completely.
November 20, 2006 7:31:43 PM

Yeah, the whole DRM thing is becoming a real pain in the @ss. With my media center hooked up to my Bell expressvu, I get errors now on some movie network channels (which I pay for) saying that I am not allowed to view this content on my computer!

So, now if I want to watch a specific movie I have to unplug the video cable from my bell receiver and plug directly into my t.v. (which is too much work, so it never happens).

I could see maybe having this with Pay Per View as they show current movies just released to DVD, but on the movie network it doesn't make sense as they only show movies that have been released for some time and have already made their money!
November 20, 2006 7:34:31 PM

Quote:
Reasonable $ amounts per song * a much greater number of legal downloads = boat loads of money. Just ask Apple. ;) 

forgot part of the equation:

Boat loads of money = Insane amounts of money ;) 

Yeah, it seems like it would be a no-brainer to me. If you opened up online music stores and offered FLAC w/ no DRM or something like that (which wouldn't really open them up to additional security risk because if I wanted to I could buy CD and rip it to FLAC easily), you would never have to worry about the physical media. You just set the website up, have your developers maintain/upgrade it, and let the profit roll in.

They obviously are trying to protect themselves from sending out a bunch of files that users can share with each other, but the reality of the situation is: it takes about 3 minutes for me to copy a CD. If I wanted to I could be burning tons of CDs for my friends and distributing them to whoever. So, I don't see where the perceived additional security threat is coming from.
November 20, 2006 7:35:20 PM

This is more then just piracy this is the beginning of the New World Order, the Government controlling everything.

People can call me a retard which maybe I am but when they start controlling what you put on your computer, going threw your computer without asking(which they can do now),putting RFID chips in your drivers license and all merchandise,passing laws that can have anyone arrested for even speaking up against the government(patriot act) and now the Draft possibly coming back (just on CNN).

To me the government is using terrorism and piracy to control our lives and that scares me,can someone remind me what freedom is again?
November 20, 2006 7:39:18 PM

tech,

They don't care of the age... If they could sell for instance another 1 mill copies of Miracle on 34th Street over the next few months they will.

Just like they will re-release (as much as possible) the once popular videos in the new HD format/playback device of choice (BD or HD-DVD).

See if you were to record that old movie on TBS via TIVO and remove the commercials and play it back you may not buy the new...

Don't cha get it :) 
November 20, 2006 7:39:45 PM

A recent 2600 issue discussed these very same issues and the current MAKE issue covers the whole HDMI issue and has brought up a lot of the points that have been brought up here.

The interesting shocker (coming from 2600). The author suggested to continue to get your music from good ole audio CDs and use it in conjunction with open source formats (like the Ogg Vorbis format noted earlier) and hardware that supports it. DRM efforts on audio CDs have proven futile (in some cases, embarrassing). As long as people continue to buy them, music companies will make and sell them and hardware manufacturers have to support them.

Unfortunately if the RIAA and MPAA have their way it will get to the point that you'll have to buy a new piece of hardware whenever you buy a new music album or a movie.
November 20, 2006 7:44:11 PM

Totally agree. People who own pirated media won't neccesarily have bought it if pirated versions weren't available.
With films, if i think they are worth seeing, i'll go see it at the cinema.
If don't go and see it at the cinema because i don't think its worth the £5, why would i want to spend £15 for it on dvd?

If prices were cheaper, people would buy a lot more too.
CD singles are a complete rip off. £3+ a go. That's why 'pop' music doesn't sell as much anymore and the charts are a complete load of rubbish. Making music is also a lot easier and production is available to anyone with a pc nowadays.
If you like music this is a good thing. If you are some over paid exec for a massive company it's a bad thing. People aren't buying your over priced processed garbage and your sales are going down.

If it was ~£2 a single a lot more people would buy them.
Same goes for albums too, and the theory can be applied to films as well.

For me to spend £15 on a dvd, it would have to be a something really amazing. I can't think of anything i'd spend £15 on tbh.
If films were £5 a pop i'd have a lot more in my collection.

God bless the internet though. Not even the largest corporations in the world combined will ever stop it and piracy. You think they would have realised this by now. I wonder how much money is spent on "stopping" piracy each year
November 20, 2006 7:56:19 PM

I haven't purchased an album in ages because of DRM and RIAA's customer treatment. Right now the music industry and movie industry could completely collapse and I wouldn't care one bit. I figure what rises out of the ashes will be a lot better than RIAA/MPAA.

I will not buy anything with HDCP on it. I have nothing to play it on and don't plan on upgrading anytime soon so I can.

Sony is on my S@!t list and will be for some time to come. I refuse to buy a PS3 because of their attitude. Maybe if they get their act together, I'll look at a PS4.

I refuse to use steam. I want to be able to play games when I want to, not just when I'm close to a internet connection.

I knew we were in trouble with MS started that DAMNED online activation. We should have burned all those CDs and the factories they came out of.

The people who run these companies are the same as ever. When business tanks, it's not their fault. It's those evil <fill in the blank> making our profits drop. They lie to their shareholders/bosses to protect their income. Thus, the lie spreads all over the industry as each CEO having the same problem takes up the same cry.

The heads of the vairous media companies will never admit they are loosing money because they suck at their jobs or the fact that they are expected to increase profits every year and have run out of ideas on how to do it. If they did admit the truth they have to forego that new beach front home.

I see little help coming from our law makers (May every last one of them burn in hell...) anytime soon, so I figure the only way to hurt them is to cost them money. I wish more people felt the same way. It seems the vast majority just have to have that new song/movie and won't pass on it to make a statement.

When people as a rule stop buying this crap, you can bet the industry change things in a big hurry. If they don't they will disappear and we will most likely be better off with what happens after.
November 20, 2006 8:01:14 PM

Quote:
This is more then just piracy this is the beginning of the New World Order, the Government controlling everything.

People can call me a retard which maybe I am but when they start controlling what you put on your computer, going threw your computer without asking(which they can do now),putting RFID chips in your drivers license and all merchandise,passing laws that can have anyone arrested for even speaking up against the government(patriot act) and now the Draft possibly coming back (just on CNN).

To me the government is using terrorism and piracy to control our lives and that scares me,can someone remind me what freedom is again?

Lol, man, don't get me started on this line of thought... I'll just get depressed, read Brave New World, and collapse for a week or something :wink:.

But, yes, it's a bit scary. I don't like the idea of people searching my HDD whenever they feel like it. I am 100% legit, and it still scares me.
November 20, 2006 8:05:57 PM

The whole hardware aspect of HDCP actually doesn't piss me off that much. I am sure that by the time it becomes prevalent (3-5 years?), we will have affordable hardware options.

The thing that really pisses me off is that if I buy an mp3 (for example), I want to be able to do WHATEVER I WANT with it. If I want to copy it to a CD, onto an mp3 player, my cellphone, my media center PC, and create my own remix of the song, I should be able to do this. I have paid for the music, as long as I don't make money off it, I should have no restrictions.

The reason that the hardware does kinda piss me off is because if I buy some media, I want it to work forever, not just on the one device I bought it for. Also, if they expect us to re-purchase our media for every player / format, it should be 1/10th the cost.
November 20, 2006 8:18:31 PM

True enough... but you're not purchasing rights to the media itself, you're pretty much purchasing the media in whatever format you're buying it in. Which is why I like FLAC because you can always decompress it to WAV and you have original CD audio.
November 20, 2006 8:27:58 PM

Quote:
Reasonable $ amounts per song * a much greater number of legal downloads = boat loads of money. Just ask Apple. ;) 

forgot part of the equation:

Boat loads of money = Insane amounts of money ;) 

Yeah, it seems like it would be a no-brainer to me. If you opened up online music stores and offered FLAC w/ no DRM or something like that (which wouldn't really open them up to additional security risk because if I wanted to I could buy CD and rip it to FLAC easily), you would never have to worry about the physical media. You just set the website up, have your developers maintain/upgrade it, and let the profit roll in.

Already done, and they call it allofmp3.com Fan-fucking-tastic site. The problem? RIAA pressure (and the us gov't in turn) to shut them down or they'll keep Russia out of the WTO.

Why its so great? reasonable rates (probably too low, but I consider anything over .50 per track too much for a lossy encoded format). You get to PICK your encoding (FLAC, OGG, WMA (ugh), AAC, MP3). NO DRM i.e. tracks play in any player that supports the format.

I haven't bought a CD since high school (~6 years) because I can't preview the whole disc before I buy it. I refuse to commit the $12-17 without trying it first.

Now, for HDCP. Yeah, it blows. I'm going to wait for a region-free, f*ck-the-mpaa drive I can drop into my HTPC and roll with it. That or find a fix for it when it comes.
November 20, 2006 8:34:18 PM

Quote:
Already done, and they call it allofmp3.com Fan-******-tastic site. The problem? RIAA pressure (and the us gov't in turn) to shut them down or they'll keep Russia out of the WTO.

Why its so great? reasonable rates (probably too low, but I consider anything over .50 per track too much for a lossy encoded format). You get to PICK your encoding (FLAC, OGG, WMA (ugh), AAC, MP3). NO DRM i.e. tracks play in any player that supports the format.

I haven't bought a CD since high school (~6 years) because I can't preview the whole disc before I buy it. I refuse to commit the $12-17 without trying it first.

Now, for HDCP. Yeah, it blows. I'm going to wait for a region-free, f*ck-the-mpaa drive I can drop into my HTPC and roll with it. That or find a fix for it when it comes.

Yeah, I've used AllOfMP3... it rules. Why doesn't somebody like Sony get the clue and just say "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em". If Sony had something like AllOfMP3, I'd be there in a heartbeat :D . (that is, if Sony's around long enough to do something like that after recent battery/blu-ray/rootkit lameness).
November 20, 2006 8:38:33 PM

Oh I get it... I just don't F****in like it :twisted:

The whole idea of DRM is a great idea... but that is where it should stay, as an idea!

In reality, it probably costs more money to incorporate the DRM into media then what the loss would be if it wasn't in place.
November 20, 2006 8:49:51 PM

I think we have already established that reality has nothing to do with it! :lol: 
November 20, 2006 8:59:24 PM

Catchy... is that taken?

We can do reviews of all of the DRM technologies and the level of annoyance associated with each of them, as well as the quality loss! :lol: 
November 20, 2006 9:01:32 PM

To get started...

HDMI stands for

[H]ollywood
[D]ear
[M]ay


And when you are ready get on your knees and to suck it up...
HDCP stands for

[H]ollywood
[D]ear
[C]*ck
[P]lease

I sure I hope I don't get banned for this.
November 20, 2006 9:40:10 PM

You have worse things to worry about than getting banned. Some RIAA thug is probably reading this right now and tracking you down from your IP Address. :wink:
!