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Why Didn't This Computer Come With An XP CD ?

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Anonymous
December 28, 2004 8:45:25 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Why Didn't This Computer Come With An XP CD ?

Perhaps someone can steer me in the right direction.

I bought a new computer yesterday; the brand is "eMachines". When I
looked for the Windows XP CD that always comes with a new computer I
didn't find one. There was a "Restore CD".

The instructions that came with the computer stated that if I boot with
the "Restore CD" in the CD bay it will allow me to restore Windows XP.

Now it has been my experience to find a Windows XP disk IN ADDITION TO
CD with the installed programs, when I buy a new computer. I opened the
"Restore CD" in "My Computer" (AFTER I had booted) and found a few
folders with some installed programs such as Microsoft Works. I did NOT
find a copy of Windows XP.

Thinking that the Windows XP may have been left out of the box by
mistake I called "eMachines" technical support. The lady there told me
that I would use this "Restore CD" to restore my computer to its
original settings if I needed to.

Now I don't know all that much about computers but it seems to me that
if I were to have a serious system crash I would need a copy of Windows
XP to reinstall. That has happened to me with a Gateway that I have and
technical support talked me through reinstalling with the XP CD.

I asked the lady at "eMachine" technical support where XP was on the
"Restore CD" and she told me that it WAS in the "Restore CD", but that I
could not see it by exploring the CD. This sounds a little fishy to me
but then I am not that well versed in computers.

Perhaps this CD can restore an existing but damaged installation of XP
to its default settings but what if the Windows folder was damaged
beyond repair?

I then asked her what would happen if I had to replace the hard drive in
the computer, and put in a new completely blank hard drive. Would this
"Restore CD" be able to install XP onto the new hard drive, and how
would it do it if I couldn't even find a copy of XP on the CD. She said
it could.

So my question is, don't I need an XP disk to use if I have a serious
crash ?

--
Remove the "Delany" to reply.

More about : computer

Anonymous
December 28, 2004 8:45:26 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Well, not exactly, it depends on what you wish to do. Many manufacturers
today provide a restore CD which is as much a convenience for them as it is
a money saver as well. The restore CD has the advantage of putting the
system back in the condition it was when you purchased it. However, this
means it essentially wipes the drive and you start over.

Any applications you've added must be reinstalled but that's the same even
if you have an actual XP CD and you must have a backup of your data or you
lose that as well. What she has told you is there is no repair function.
If things happen as you describe, your only option is to use the restore CD
to restore the system to the condition it was right out of the box.

As to what happens if you have to replace the hard drive, I'm not completely
sure how this would work and it may vary with system manufacturer as some
system manufacturer's might require you to replace the hard drive through
them in order for the restore CD to work. That's something I think you need
to question them about. In other words, if you replaced the hard drive with
a hard drive from some retailer, would the restore CD work as you expect or
do you have to purchase the new hard drive through eMachines. You see, some
such CDs are BIOS locked and any change of internal hardware might prevent
the CD from properly restoring.

Nonetheless, what you are seeing is relatively standard, especially on lower
priced systems. Unfortunately, many users are getting burned with this,
yours is not the first complaint or question we've seen on this subject. I
would always advise any person buying a new computer to make sure an actual
CD of the OS is included, one which is identical to the retail version and
provides all the options of the retail version. Unfortunately, when I see
such questions in newsgroups, it's always after the fact.

You might be able to purchase an actual XP CD through eMachines at a reduced
price, you might want to ask them about that and understand, when you
purchased your system, you didn't pay for a full retail version of XP, you
paid a licensing fee at a very reduced price over the cost of an actual
retail version. What you have, is an all or nothing solution. It saves the
manufacturer on support costs because if you call with a problem they just
tell you to put the restore CD in the drive and run their restore routine.
Unfortunately, that's not a fix, that wipes the drive and you start over.
Even if you had an actual XP CD I would still recommend in the strongest
possible terms that you be well backed up. However, an actual XP CD also
includes the ability to do a repair install as well as run a number of
repair options from the recovery console none of which are included on this
restore CD.

--
Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Babel17delany" <Babel17delany@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:9qlAd.12470$401.7320@fe11.lga...
> Why Didn't This Computer Come With An XP CD ?
>
> Perhaps someone can steer me in the right direction.
>
> I bought a new computer yesterday; the brand is "eMachines". When I
> looked for the Windows XP CD that always comes with a new computer I
> didn't find one. There was a "Restore CD".
>
> The instructions that came with the computer stated that if I boot with
> the "Restore CD" in the CD bay it will allow me to restore Windows XP.
>
> Now it has been my experience to find a Windows XP disk IN ADDITION TO CD
> with the installed programs, when I buy a new computer. I opened the
> "Restore CD" in "My Computer" (AFTER I had booted) and found a few folders
> with some installed programs such as Microsoft Works. I did NOT find a
> copy of Windows XP.
>
> Thinking that the Windows XP may have been left out of the box by mistake
> I called "eMachines" technical support. The lady there told me that I
> would use this "Restore CD" to restore my computer to its original
> settings if I needed to.
>
> Now I don't know all that much about computers but it seems to me that if
> I were to have a serious system crash I would need a copy of Windows XP to
> reinstall. That has happened to me with a Gateway that I have and
> technical support talked me through reinstalling with the XP CD.
>
> I asked the lady at "eMachine" technical support where XP was on the
> "Restore CD" and she told me that it WAS in the "Restore CD", but that I
> could not see it by exploring the CD. This sounds a little fishy to me
> but then I am not that well versed in computers.
>
> Perhaps this CD can restore an existing but damaged installation of XP to
> its default settings but what if the Windows folder was damaged beyond
> repair?
>
> I then asked her what would happen if I had to replace the hard drive in
> the computer, and put in a new completely blank hard drive. Would this
> "Restore CD" be able to install XP onto the new hard drive, and how would
> it do it if I couldn't even find a copy of XP on the CD. She said it
> could.
>
> So my question is, don't I need an XP disk to use if I have a serious
> crash ?
>
> --
> Remove the "Delany" to reply.
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 8:45:26 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

In news:9qlAd.12470$401.7320@fe11.lga,
Babel17delany <Babel17delany@optonline.net> typed:

> Why Didn't This Computer Come With An XP CD ?
>
> Perhaps someone can steer me in the right direction.
>
> I bought a new computer yesterday; the brand is "eMachines".
> When I
> looked for the Windows XP CD that always comes with a new
> computer I
> didn't find one. There was a "Restore CD".
>
> The instructions that came with the computer stated that if I
> boot
> with the "Restore CD" in the CD bay it will allow me to restore
> Windows XP.
> Now it has been my experience to find a Windows XP disk IN
> ADDITION TO
> CD with the installed programs, when I buy a new computer. I
> opened
> the "Restore CD" in "My Computer" (AFTER I had booted) and
> found a few
> folders with some installed programs such as Microsoft Works.
> I did
> NOT find a copy of Windows XP.


OEM vendors are required by their agreement with Microsoft to
give you a means of reinstalling, should it be necessary. They
can do this in one of three ways:



1. An OEM copy of Windows

2. A restore CD

3. A hidden partition on your drive, with restore information.



If you don't have 1 or 2, you should have 3, but you should
contact your vendor to find out.



Personally, I find both 2 and 3 unacceptable, and would never
choose to buy a computer that came with an operating system
unless I got a complete generic installation CD for that
operating system.



> Thinking that the Windows XP may have been left out of the box
> by
> mistake I called "eMachines" technical support. The lady there
> told
> me that I would use this "Restore CD" to restore my computer to
> its
> original settings if I needed to.
>
> Now I don't know all that much about computers but it seems to
> me that
> if I were to have a serious system crash I would need a copy of
> Windows XP to reinstall. That has happened to me with a Gateway
> that
> I have and technical support talked me through reinstalling
> with the
> XP CD.
> I asked the lady at "eMachine" technical support where XP was
> on the
> "Restore CD" and she told me that it WAS in the "Restore CD",
> but
> that I could not see it by exploring the CD. This sounds a
> little
> fishy to me but then I am not that well versed in computers.
>
> Perhaps this CD can restore an existing but damaged
> installation of XP
> to its default settings but what if the Windows folder was
> damaged
> beyond repair?
>
> I then asked her what would happen if I had to replace the hard
> drive
> in the computer, and put in a new completely blank hard drive.
> Would
> this "Restore CD" be able to install XP onto the new hard
> drive, and
> how would it do it if I couldn't even find a copy of XP on the
> CD. She said it could.


She's correct. That's the purpose of a restore CD. It lets you
load Windows to factory-installed condition. It's not an
installation CD with all the regular options, but it you can do
what you ask.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup
Related resources
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 9:10:19 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

You got what you paid for (eMachines are cheap), and that is not a real XP
CD. Of course, they probably forgot to mention that fine point to you
before bought it.

Specifically, your PC has an OEM license, meaning that it is only good on
the hardware you bought. You can not transfer it to another PC and you can
not do major upgrades, like a new motherboard. You may also not be able to
do a "repair" installation. But, you probably can do a restore, but that
means (1) automatically formating the hard drive and losing everything on
it, then (2) installing an image of the PC as they shipped it to you.

If you prefer to avoid the prospect of losing everything on the PC, then get
some good backup software and get it fast. Get something that can write a
disk image to an external disk (USB, firewire), an use it regularly. Also,
occassionally, write a backup to external disk, then copy it to CDs or DVDs.
Any good backup software will give you the option to make an image in
bite-sized pieces.

I advise against backing up directly to CD or DVD, as one little glitch and
the image will not restore. instead, when you manually copy to optical
media, you can usually request a "verification", to assure that the copy is
100% correct. Easy CD Creator and Nero both can do this.

I recommend Acronis True Image, but Norton GHOST is a fair alternative.

"Babel17delany" <Babel17delany@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:9qlAd.12470$401.7320@fe11.lga...
> Why Didn't This Computer Come With An XP CD ?
>
> Perhaps someone can steer me in the right direction.
>
> I bought a new computer yesterday; the brand is "eMachines". When I
> looked for the Windows XP CD that always comes with a new computer I
> didn't find one. There was a "Restore CD".
>
> The instructions that came with the computer stated that if I boot with
> the "Restore CD" in the CD bay it will allow me to restore Windows XP.
>
> Now it has been my experience to find a Windows XP disk IN ADDITION TO CD
> with the installed programs, when I buy a new computer. I opened the
> "Restore CD" in "My Computer" (AFTER I had booted) and found a few folders
> with some installed programs such as Microsoft Works. I did NOT find a
> copy of Windows XP.
>
> Thinking that the Windows XP may have been left out of the box by mistake
> I called "eMachines" technical support. The lady there told me that I
> would use this "Restore CD" to restore my computer to its original
> settings if I needed to.
>
> Now I don't know all that much about computers but it seems to me that if
> I were to have a serious system crash I would need a copy of Windows XP to
> reinstall. That has happened to me with a Gateway that I have and
> technical support talked me through reinstalling with the XP CD.
>
> I asked the lady at "eMachine" technical support where XP was on the
> "Restore CD" and she told me that it WAS in the "Restore CD", but that I
> could not see it by exploring the CD. This sounds a little fishy to me
> but then I am not that well versed in computers.
>
> Perhaps this CD can restore an existing but damaged installation of XP to
> its default settings but what if the Windows folder was damaged beyond
> repair?
>
> I then asked her what would happen if I had to replace the hard drive in
> the computer, and put in a new completely blank hard drive. Would this
> "Restore CD" be able to install XP onto the new hard drive, and how would
> it do it if I couldn't even find a copy of XP on the CD. She said it
> could.
>
> So my question is, don't I need an XP disk to use if I have a serious
> crash ?
>
> --
> Remove the "Delany" to reply.
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 9:11:25 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Hi,

There is nothing that states that the manufacturer needs to give you a
regular XP CD. What they have given you is an image disk that contains WinXP
and all of the supplied programs. This will restore the system to factory
state, they aren't giving you an option to install only the OS. You will
likely find the WinXP system files under an I386 folder on the hard drive in
case you need them.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

"Babel17delany" <Babel17delany@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:9qlAd.12470$401.7320@fe11.lga...
> Why Didn't This Computer Come With An XP CD ?
>
> Perhaps someone can steer me in the right direction.
>
> I bought a new computer yesterday; the brand is "eMachines". When I
> looked for the Windows XP CD that always comes with a new computer I
> didn't find one. There was a "Restore CD".
>
> The instructions that came with the computer stated that if I boot with
> the "Restore CD" in the CD bay it will allow me to restore Windows XP.
>
> Now it has been my experience to find a Windows XP disk IN ADDITION TO CD
> with the installed programs, when I buy a new computer. I opened the
> "Restore CD" in "My Computer" (AFTER I had booted) and found a few folders
> with some installed programs such as Microsoft Works. I did NOT find a
> copy of Windows XP.
>
> Thinking that the Windows XP may have been left out of the box by mistake
> I called "eMachines" technical support. The lady there told me that I
> would use this "Restore CD" to restore my computer to its original
> settings if I needed to.
>
> Now I don't know all that much about computers but it seems to me that if
> I were to have a serious system crash I would need a copy of Windows XP to
> reinstall. That has happened to me with a Gateway that I have and
> technical support talked me through reinstalling with the XP CD.
>
> I asked the lady at "eMachine" technical support where XP was on the
> "Restore CD" and she told me that it WAS in the "Restore CD", but that I
> could not see it by exploring the CD. This sounds a little fishy to me
> but then I am not that well versed in computers.
>
> Perhaps this CD can restore an existing but damaged installation of XP to
> its default settings but what if the Windows folder was damaged beyond
> repair?
>
> I then asked her what would happen if I had to replace the hard drive in
> the computer, and put in a new completely blank hard drive. Would this
> "Restore CD" be able to install XP onto the new hard drive, and how would
> it do it if I couldn't even find a copy of XP on the CD. She said it
> could.
>
> So my question is, don't I need an XP disk to use if I have a serious
> crash ?
>
> --
> Remove the "Delany" to reply.
Anonymous
December 28, 2004 9:39:31 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Babel17delany wrote:
> Why Didn't This Computer Come With An XP CD ?
>
> Perhaps someone can steer me in the right direction.
>
> I bought a new computer yesterday; the brand is "eMachines". When I
> looked for the Windows XP CD that always comes with a new computer I
> didn't find one. There was a "Restore CD".
>
> The instructions that came with the computer stated that if I boot with
> the "Restore CD" in the CD bay it will allow me to restore Windows XP.
>
> Now it has been my experience to find a Windows XP disk IN ADDITION TO
> CD with the installed programs, when I buy a new computer. I opened the
> "Restore CD" in "My Computer" (AFTER I had booted) and found a few
> folders with some installed programs such as Microsoft Works. I did NOT
> find a copy of Windows XP.
>
> Thinking that the Windows XP may have been left out of the box by
> mistake I called "eMachines" technical support. The lady there told me
> that I would use this "Restore CD" to restore my computer to its
> original settings if I needed to.
>
> Now I don't know all that much about computers but it seems to me that
> if I were to have a serious system crash I would need a copy of Windows
> XP to reinstall. That has happened to me with a Gateway that I have and
> technical support talked me through reinstalling with the XP CD.
>
> I asked the lady at "eMachine" technical support where XP was on the
> "Restore CD" and she told me that it WAS in the "Restore CD", but that I
> could not see it by exploring the CD. This sounds a little fishy to me
> but then I am not that well versed in computers.
>
> Perhaps this CD can restore an existing but damaged installation of XP
> to its default settings but what if the Windows folder was damaged
> beyond repair?
>
> I then asked her what would happen if I had to replace the hard drive in
> the computer, and put in a new completely blank hard drive. Would this
> "Restore CD" be able to install XP onto the new hard drive, and how
> would it do it if I couldn't even find a copy of XP on the CD. She said
> it could.
>
> So my question is, don't I need an XP disk to use if I have a serious
> crash ?
>


Legally, the OEM has met it's contractual obligation to Microsoft
by providing a means of returning the PC to its ex-factory state,
whether it's a Recovery CD or a Recovery Partition. They are not
legally obliged to provide a true installation CD as part of the sale.
Reputable, customer-service aware OEMs, like Dell, MPC, and Gateway, do
provide a full OEM installation CD, that does permit custom
installations and repairs. Many uncaring OEMs, especially those who
sell their computers through department stores and chain outlets, such
as Compaq, HP, eMachines, and Sony, however, in an effort to save
pennies and reduce their support costs by having to hire support people
that can only say "Boot from the Recovery CD to return your PC to its
original condition," provide only a CD bearing a disk image of the hard
drive as it left the factory. These Recovery/Restore CDs cannot perform
normal installations, nor can they be used to do any sort of customizations.

Essentially, it boils down to "You get what you pay for."


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 10:20:51 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Unfortunately, it appears that I did get what I paid for.
I will follow an earlier replier's advice and purchase an external hard
drive to back up the computer to. If I crash I will be able to backup
from this.

On a related topic, does anyone have any experience with the
"Retrospect" program? An external hard drive that I have hooked up to
another computer came with this as backup software. How does it compare
to others, such as "Norton Ghost"?


Bruce Chambers wrote:
> Babel17delany wrote:
>
>> Why Didn't This Computer Come With An XP CD ?
>>
>> Perhaps someone can steer me in the right direction.
>>
>> I bought a new computer yesterday; the brand is "eMachines". When I
>> looked for the Windows XP CD that always comes with a new computer I
>> didn't find one. There was a "Restore CD".
>>
>> The instructions that came with the computer stated that if I boot
>> with the "Restore CD" in the CD bay it will allow me to restore
>> Windows XP.
>>
>> Now it has been my experience to find a Windows XP disk IN ADDITION TO
>> CD with the installed programs, when I buy a new computer. I opened
>> the "Restore CD" in "My Computer" (AFTER I had booted) and found a few
>> folders with some installed programs such as Microsoft Works. I did
>> NOT find a copy of Windows XP.
>>
>> Thinking that the Windows XP may have been left out of the box by
>> mistake I called "eMachines" technical support. The lady there told
>> me that I would use this "Restore CD" to restore my computer to its
>> original settings if I needed to.
>>
>> Now I don't know all that much about computers but it seems to me that
>> if I were to have a serious system crash I would need a copy of
>> Windows XP to reinstall. That has happened to me with a Gateway that I
>> have and technical support talked me through reinstalling with the XP CD.
>>
>> I asked the lady at "eMachine" technical support where XP was on the
>> "Restore CD" and she told me that it WAS in the "Restore CD", but that
>> I could not see it by exploring the CD. This sounds a little fishy to
>> me but then I am not that well versed in computers.
>>
>> Perhaps this CD can restore an existing but damaged installation of XP
>> to its default settings but what if the Windows folder was damaged
>> beyond repair?
>>
>> I then asked her what would happen if I had to replace the hard drive
>> in the computer, and put in a new completely blank hard drive. Would
>> this "Restore CD" be able to install XP onto the new hard drive, and
>> how would it do it if I couldn't even find a copy of XP on the CD.
>> She said it could.
>>
>> So my question is, don't I need an XP disk to use if I have a serious
>> crash ?
>>
>
>
> Legally, the OEM has met it's contractual obligation to Microsoft by
> providing a means of returning the PC to its ex-factory state, whether
> it's a Recovery CD or a Recovery Partition. They are not legally
> obliged to provide a true installation CD as part of the sale.
> Reputable, customer-service aware OEMs, like Dell, MPC, and Gateway, do
> provide a full OEM installation CD, that does permit custom
> installations and repairs. Many uncaring OEMs, especially those who
> sell their computers through department stores and chain outlets, such
> as Compaq, HP, eMachines, and Sony, however, in an effort to save
> pennies and reduce their support costs by having to hire support people
> that can only say "Boot from the Recovery CD to return your PC to its
> original condition," provide only a CD bearing a disk image of the hard
> drive as it left the factory. These Recovery/Restore CDs cannot perform
> normal installations, nor can they be used to do any sort of
> customizations.
>
> Essentially, it boils down to "You get what you pay for."
>
>

--
Remove the "Delany" to reply.
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 10:20:52 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Retrospect is a backup program, extremely powerful in that it gives a lot of
options for backing up but as such can be a bit confusing for many users.

Ghost is an imaging program that creates an exact sector by sector mirror
image of the drive. This is an excellent means of backup but I recommend
supplementing any image with regular backups because an Image as is the case
with a backup is only as good as the most recent time it was created.

The latest version of Ghost is now essentially the old PowerQuest Drive
Image application. Symantec purchased PowerQuest some months ago and while
many of their products were maintained, they folded Drive Image into Ghost
and while I liked Ghost a lot, I also like Drive Image. While I haven't
used it in its current incarnation, Norton Ghost 9.0, from what I can see
they have kept Drive Image and its user interface intact and this should
serve Ghost users very well now and in the future.

--
Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Babel17delany" <Babel17delany@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:JVHAd.43$vN2.12@fe11.lga...
> Unfortunately, it appears that I did get what I paid for.
> I will follow an earlier replier's advice and purchase an external hard
> drive to back up the computer to. If I crash I will be able to backup
> from this.
>
> On a related topic, does anyone have any experience with the "Retrospect"
> program? An external hard drive that I have hooked up to another computer
> came with this as backup software. How does it compare to others, such as
> "Norton Ghost"?
>
>
> Bruce Chambers wrote:
>> Babel17delany wrote:
>>
>>> Why Didn't This Computer Come With An XP CD ?
>>>
>>> Perhaps someone can steer me in the right direction.
>>>
>>> I bought a new computer yesterday; the brand is "eMachines". When I
>>> looked for the Windows XP CD that always comes with a new computer I
>>> didn't find one. There was a "Restore CD".
>>>
>>> The instructions that came with the computer stated that if I boot with
>>> the "Restore CD" in the CD bay it will allow me to restore Windows XP.
>>>
>>> Now it has been my experience to find a Windows XP disk IN ADDITION TO
>>> CD with the installed programs, when I buy a new computer. I opened the
>>> "Restore CD" in "My Computer" (AFTER I had booted) and found a few
>>> folders with some installed programs such as Microsoft Works. I did NOT
>>> find a copy of Windows XP.
>>>
>>> Thinking that the Windows XP may have been left out of the box by
>>> mistake I called "eMachines" technical support. The lady there told me
>>> that I would use this "Restore CD" to restore my computer to its
>>> original settings if I needed to.
>>>
>>> Now I don't know all that much about computers but it seems to me that
>>> if I were to have a serious system crash I would need a copy of Windows
>>> XP to reinstall. That has happened to me with a Gateway that I have and
>>> technical support talked me through reinstalling with the XP CD.
>>>
>>> I asked the lady at "eMachine" technical support where XP was on the
>>> "Restore CD" and she told me that it WAS in the "Restore CD", but that I
>>> could not see it by exploring the CD. This sounds a little fishy to me
>>> but then I am not that well versed in computers.
>>>
>>> Perhaps this CD can restore an existing but damaged installation of XP
>>> to its default settings but what if the Windows folder was damaged
>>> beyond repair?
>>>
>>> I then asked her what would happen if I had to replace the hard drive in
>>> the computer, and put in a new completely blank hard drive. Would this
>>> "Restore CD" be able to install XP onto the new hard drive, and how
>>> would it do it if I couldn't even find a copy of XP on the CD. She said
>>> it could.
>>>
>>> So my question is, don't I need an XP disk to use if I have a serious
>>> crash ?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Legally, the OEM has met it's contractual obligation to Microsoft by
>> providing a means of returning the PC to its ex-factory state, whether
>> it's a Recovery CD or a Recovery Partition. They are not legally obliged
>> to provide a true installation CD as part of the sale. Reputable,
>> customer-service aware OEMs, like Dell, MPC, and Gateway, do provide a
>> full OEM installation CD, that does permit custom installations and
>> repairs. Many uncaring OEMs, especially those who sell their computers
>> through department stores and chain outlets, such as Compaq, HP,
>> eMachines, and Sony, however, in an effort to save pennies and reduce
>> their support costs by having to hire support people that can only say
>> "Boot from the Recovery CD to return your PC to its original condition,"
>> provide only a CD bearing a disk image of the hard drive as it left the
>> factory. These Recovery/Restore CDs cannot perform normal installations,
>> nor can they be used to do any sort of customizations.
>>
>> Essentially, it boils down to "You get what you pay for."
>>
>>
>
> --
> Remove the "Delany" to reply.
Anonymous
December 30, 2004 8:47:35 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Thanks.
I'm not sure that I understand the difference between a "mirror" and a
"backup" but it sounds as if the Retrospect is an adequate program. I
try to backup a few times a week.

Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:
> Retrospect is a backup program, extremely powerful in that it gives a lot of
> options for backing up but as such can be a bit confusing for many users.
>
> Ghost is an imaging program that creates an exact sector by sector mirror
> image of the drive. This is an excellent means of backup but I recommend
> supplementing any image with regular backups because an Image as is the case
> with a backup is only as good as the most recent time it was created.
>
> The latest version of Ghost is now essentially the old PowerQuest Drive
> Image application. Symantec purchased PowerQuest some months ago and while
> many of their products were maintained, they folded Drive Image into Ghost
> and while I liked Ghost a lot, I also like Drive Image. While I haven't
> used it in its current incarnation, Norton Ghost 9.0, from what I can see
> they have kept Drive Image and its user interface intact and this should
> serve Ghost users very well now and in the future.
>

--
Remove the "Delany" to reply.
Anonymous
December 30, 2004 8:47:36 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

A backup copies whatever files you select. An image is a bit by bit copy of
the entire selected partition.

Let's say you are about to do something you know is dangerous, something
that might render XP unbootable. If you only have a backup, you would have
to first reinstall XP, reinstall your applications, then restore your data
from backup. If you have an image of your setup with all your applications
installed, you would only need to restore the image, then restore your data
from your backup.

--
Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Babel17delany" <Babel17delany@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:EE%Ad.222$Ms7.58@fe11.lga...
> Thanks.
> I'm not sure that I understand the difference between a "mirror" and a
> "backup" but it sounds as if the Retrospect is an adequate program. I try
> to backup a few times a week.
>
> Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:
>> Retrospect is a backup program, extremely powerful in that it gives a lot
>> of options for backing up but as such can be a bit confusing for many
>> users.
>>
>> Ghost is an imaging program that creates an exact sector by sector mirror
>> image of the drive. This is an excellent means of backup but I recommend
>> supplementing any image with regular backups because an Image as is the
>> case with a backup is only as good as the most recent time it was
>> created.
>>
>> The latest version of Ghost is now essentially the old PowerQuest Drive
>> Image application. Symantec purchased PowerQuest some months ago and
>> while many of their products were maintained, they folded Drive Image
>> into Ghost and while I liked Ghost a lot, I also like Drive Image. While
>> I haven't used it in its current incarnation, Norton Ghost 9.0, from what
>> I can see they have kept Drive Image and its user interface intact and
>> this should serve Ghost users very well now and in the future.
>>
>
> --
> Remove the "Delany" to reply.
Anonymous
December 30, 2004 10:46:33 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Then it sounds from your explanation that an imaging program like
"Norton Ghost" would be a better choice than a backup program like
"Retrospect". The imaging program would be easier to use to recover
from a crash that corrupted XP. Am I correct about this? Of course for
both, the key would be to either backup or image copy often.

Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:
> A backup copies whatever files you select. An image is a bit by bit copy of
> the entire selected partition.
>
> Let's say you are about to do something you know is dangerous, something
> that might render XP unbootable. If you only have a backup, you would have
> to first reinstall XP, reinstall your applications, then restore your data
> from backup. If you have an image of your setup with all your applications
> installed, you would only need to restore the image, then restore your data
> from your backup.
>

--
Remove the "Delany" to reply.
Anonymous
December 30, 2004 10:46:34 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Personally, I prefer to supplement and image with my backup. Once you have
the image of the OS and the apps installed and all your drivers installed,
if anything goes wrong, it's a relatively simple matter to restore the image
and then the backup. It's not an either/or issue; one compliments and
supplements the other.

It can be a bit of a long process to image your system so doing it daily in
place of a backup can be a bit tedious. Second, it also gives you a form of
two separate backups, especially if, for example, you image your system once
or twice a month but backup any day you use the system. If something goes
wrong with one, you still have the other.

That's one way of using it and a bit beyond my original recommendation. But
assuming you create an image of your setup with apps and drivers installed,
it gives you a quick restore that can be augmented with an up to date backup
of your files. In this scenario, if something goes wrong with the image,
you at least have the disks for your OS and applications and as long as you
keep your backup up to date, you always have your data.

--
Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Babel17delany" <Babel17delany@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:ao1Bd.240$Sz.116@fe11.lga...
> Then it sounds from your explanation that an imaging program like "Norton
> Ghost" would be a better choice than a backup program like "Retrospect".
> The imaging program would be easier to use to recover from a crash that
> corrupted XP. Am I correct about this? Of course for both, the key would
> be to either backup or image copy often.
>
> Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:
>> A backup copies whatever files you select. An image is a bit by bit copy
>> of the entire selected partition.
>>
>> Let's say you are about to do something you know is dangerous, something
>> that might render XP unbootable. If you only have a backup, you would
>> have to first reinstall XP, reinstall your applications, then restore
>> your data from backup. If you have an image of your setup with all your
>> applications installed, you would only need to restore the image, then
>> restore your data from your backup.
>>
>
> --
> Remove the "Delany" to reply.
Anonymous
December 31, 2004 7:54:11 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

That makes sense: Do the more lengthy Ghost occassionally to be able to
boot with all your drivers under any circumstances, and do the briefer
Backup often to have a very up-to-date copy of your files to reinsert.

Thanks for the advice.


Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:
> Personally, I prefer to supplement and image with my backup. Once you have
> the image of the OS and the apps installed and all your drivers installed,
> if anything goes wrong, it's a relatively simple matter to restore the image
> and then the backup. It's not an either/or issue; one compliments and
> supplements the other.
>
> It can be a bit of a long process to image your system so doing it daily in
> place of a backup can be a bit tedious. Second, it also gives you a form of
> two separate backups, especially if, for example, you image your system once
> or twice a month but backup any day you use the system. If something goes
> wrong with one, you still have the other.
>
> That's one way of using it and a bit beyond my original recommendation. But
> assuming you create an image of your setup with apps and drivers installed,
> it gives you a quick restore that can be augmented with an up to date backup
> of your files. In this scenario, if something goes wrong with the image,
> you at least have the disks for your OS and applications and as long as you
> keep your backup up to date, you always have your data.
>

--
Remove the "Delany" to reply.
Anonymous
December 31, 2004 2:39:18 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

You're welcome, good luck.

--
Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Babel17delany" <Babel17delany@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:Ep9Bd.301$tH5.205@fe11.lga...
> That makes sense: Do the more lengthy Ghost occassionally to be able to
> boot with all your drivers under any circumstances, and do the briefer
> Backup often to have a very up-to-date copy of your files to reinsert.
>
> Thanks for the advice.
>
>
> Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:
>> Personally, I prefer to supplement and image with my backup. Once you
>> have the image of the OS and the apps installed and all your drivers
>> installed, if anything goes wrong, it's a relatively simple matter to
>> restore the image and then the backup. It's not an either/or issue; one
>> compliments and supplements the other.
>>
>> It can be a bit of a long process to image your system so doing it daily
>> in place of a backup can be a bit tedious. Second, it also gives you a
>> form of two separate backups, especially if, for example, you image your
>> system once or twice a month but backup any day you use the system. If
>> something goes wrong with one, you still have the other.
>>
>> That's one way of using it and a bit beyond my original recommendation.
>> But assuming you create an image of your setup with apps and drivers
>> installed, it gives you a quick restore that can be augmented with an up
>> to date backup of your files. In this scenario, if something goes wrong
>> with the image, you at least have the disks for your OS and applications
>> and as long as you keep your backup up to date, you always have your
>> data.
>>
>
> --
> Remove the "Delany" to reply.
Anonymous
December 31, 2004 4:42:29 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

"Babel17delany" <Babel17delany@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:Ep9Bd.301$tH5.205@fe11.lga...
> That makes sense: Do the more lengthy Ghost occassionally to be able to
> boot with all your drivers under any circumstances, and do the briefer
> Backup often to have a very up-to-date copy of your files to reinsert.
>
> Thanks for the advice.
>
>
> Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:
>> Personally, I prefer to supplement and image with my backup. Once you
>> have the image of the OS and the apps installed and all your drivers
>> installed, if anything goes wrong, it's a relatively simple matter to
>> restore the image and then the backup. It's not an either/or issue; one
>> compliments and supplements the other.
>>
>> It can be a bit of a long process to image your system so doing it daily
>> in place of a backup can be a bit tedious. Second, it also gives you a
>> form of two separate backups, especially if, for example, you image your
>> system once or twice a month but backup any day you use the system. If
>> something goes wrong with one, you still have the other.
>>
>> That's one way of using it and a bit beyond my original recommendation.
>> But assuming you create an image of your setup with apps and drivers
>> installed, it gives you a quick restore that can be augmented with an up
>> to date backup of your files. In this scenario, if something goes wrong
>> with the image, you at least have the disks for your OS and applications
>> and as long as you keep your backup up to date, you always have your
>> data.
>>
>
> --
> Remove the "Delany" to reply.

Ghost 9 also has the ability to restore individual files/folders from the
backup image from within the operating system. So it's not only just an
"image restore" program. You can also do this from the "recovery
environment" -- that is, when you must boot from the Ghost CD.

A caveat: If you have multiple partitions/hard disks, be certain you know
all the names of the disks/partitions! The manual states "Drive letters
under the recovery environment may not match those in the Windows
environment." I experienced this in one image recovery and had a small
problem sorting out which drive was which to restore. You may not have that
problem since e-Machines don't allow for much physical expansion room or
capabilities.

Ghost 9 has worked well with me on 2 recent occasions. If
technical/administrative support were the deciding factors in choosing, I
couldn't recommend Symantec. I have the latest version of Acronis True Image
but just have not gotten comfortable with it yet, although it's highly
recommended by experts here whose opinions I respect -- that's why I bought
it.
Anonymous
December 31, 2004 4:42:30 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

"Ghost 9 also has the ability to restore individual files/folders from the
backup image from within the operating system. So it's not only just an
"image restore" program. You can also do this from the "recovery
environment" -- that is, when you must boot from the Ghost CD."

This is true and certainly can be used as a backup but under the scenario I
describe, it's only as good as the most recent image. I make the point
about the difference or using both an image with the backup supplementing
the image for a couple of reasons. First, it's good to have more than one
backup type. Second, an image file is usually much larger than a backup
file, especially a backup that is only used to backup the user's data and as
such easier to store.

Because of the size of image files, users often simply store it on a
separate partition. This works fine as long as the hard drive doesn't die
but if it does, the image is lost. The smaller backup file is easier to
store on other types of media and again is something of an insurance policy
against some other storage going bad or the other file becoming otherwise
corrupted.



--
Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Gene Hora" <ams34@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9HcBd.42896$Ew6.7509@twister.socal.rr.com...
> "Babel17delany" <Babel17delany@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:Ep9Bd.301$tH5.205@fe11.lga...
>> That makes sense: Do the more lengthy Ghost occassionally to be able to
>> boot with all your drivers under any circumstances, and do the briefer
>> Backup often to have a very up-to-date copy of your files to reinsert.
>>
>> Thanks for the advice.
>>
>>
>> Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:
>>> Personally, I prefer to supplement and image with my backup. Once you
>>> have the image of the OS and the apps installed and all your drivers
>>> installed, if anything goes wrong, it's a relatively simple matter to
>>> restore the image and then the backup. It's not an either/or issue; one
>>> compliments and supplements the other.
>>>
>>> It can be a bit of a long process to image your system so doing it daily
>>> in place of a backup can be a bit tedious. Second, it also gives you a
>>> form of two separate backups, especially if, for example, you image your
>>> system once or twice a month but backup any day you use the system. If
>>> something goes wrong with one, you still have the other.
>>>
>>> That's one way of using it and a bit beyond my original recommendation.
>>> But assuming you create an image of your setup with apps and drivers
>>> installed, it gives you a quick restore that can be augmented with an up
>>> to date backup of your files. In this scenario, if something goes wrong
>>> with the image, you at least have the disks for your OS and applications
>>> and as long as you keep your backup up to date, you always have your
>>> data.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Remove the "Delany" to reply.
>
> Ghost 9 also has the ability to restore individual files/folders from the
> backup image from within the operating system. So it's not only just an
> "image restore" program. You can also do this from the "recovery
> environment" -- that is, when you must boot from the Ghost CD.
>
> A caveat: If you have multiple partitions/hard disks, be certain you know
> all the names of the disks/partitions! The manual states "Drive letters
> under the recovery environment may not match those in the Windows
> environment." I experienced this in one image recovery and had a small
> problem sorting out which drive was which to restore. You may not have
> that problem since e-Machines don't allow for much physical expansion room
> or capabilities.
>
> Ghost 9 has worked well with me on 2 recent occasions. If
> technical/administrative support were the deciding factors in choosing, I
> couldn't recommend Symantec. I have the latest version of Acronis True
> Image but just have not gotten comfortable with it yet, although it's
> highly recommended by experts here whose opinions I respect -- that's why
> I bought it.
>
Anonymous
December 31, 2004 5:37:43 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Thanks for the advice on the drive letters. I plan to buy an external
hard drive next week. The one I bought for my other computer came with
Retrospect. I will backup then decide if I want to image with Symantec
or with Acronis. I too have seen people speak well of Acronis and
poorly of Symantec service in these newsgroups. I'll have to decide
which I want. And I'll write down the drive letters as well!

Gene Hora wrote:
> "Babel17delany" <Babel17delany@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:Ep9Bd.301$tH5.205@fe11.lga...
>
>>That makes sense: Do the more lengthy Ghost occassionally to be able to
>>boot with all your drivers under any circumstances, and do the briefer
>>Backup often to have a very up-to-date copy of your files to reinsert.
>>
>>Thanks for the advice.
>>
>>
>>Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:
>>
>>>Personally, I prefer to supplement and image with my backup. Once you
>>>have the image of the OS and the apps installed and all your drivers
>>>installed, if anything goes wrong, it's a relatively simple matter to
>>>restore the image and then the backup. It's not an either/or issue; one
>>>compliments and supplements the other.
>>>
>>>It can be a bit of a long process to image your system so doing it daily
>>>in place of a backup can be a bit tedious. Second, it also gives you a
>>>form of two separate backups, especially if, for example, you image your
>>>system once or twice a month but backup any day you use the system. If
>>>something goes wrong with one, you still have the other.
>>>
>>>That's one way of using it and a bit beyond my original recommendation.
>>>But assuming you create an image of your setup with apps and drivers
>>>installed, it gives you a quick restore that can be augmented with an up
>>>to date backup of your files. In this scenario, if something goes wrong
>>>with the image, you at least have the disks for your OS and applications
>>>and as long as you keep your backup up to date, you always have your
>>>data.
>>>
>>
>>--
>>Remove the "Delany" to reply.
>
>
> Ghost 9 also has the ability to restore individual files/folders from the
> backup image from within the operating system. So it's not only just an
> "image restore" program. You can also do this from the "recovery
> environment" -- that is, when you must boot from the Ghost CD.
>
> A caveat: If you have multiple partitions/hard disks, be certain you know
> all the names of the disks/partitions! The manual states "Drive letters
> under the recovery environment may not match those in the Windows
> environment." I experienced this in one image recovery and had a small
> problem sorting out which drive was which to restore. You may not have that
> problem since e-Machines don't allow for much physical expansion room or
> capabilities.
>
> Ghost 9 has worked well with me on 2 recent occasions. If
> technical/administrative support were the deciding factors in choosing, I
> couldn't recommend Symantec. I have the latest version of Acronis True Image
> but just have not gotten comfortable with it yet, although it's highly
> recommended by experts here whose opinions I respect -- that's why I bought
> it.
>
>

--
Remove the "Delany" to reply.
!