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No LCD good enough for NVIDIA 8800 GTX?

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November 23, 2006 10:02:22 AM

Hi people,

I'm wondering if I can get a bit of advice. I am planning to get a
high end new machine in the new year -with Vista and a 8800 GTX
graphics card. I'll spend around £2500. And my main focus is on
gaming. But it seems to me that there are no LCD monitors out there
that can do that spec justice. This site, when reviewing the 7950 GX2,
said there was nopoint in getting it if you play in less than 1600x1200.
The 8800GTX will make this situation even worse!

So my question is, unless you have a CRT monitor the size of a small
car, is there any point in purchasing the 8800GTX? Is there a gaming
LCD up to the task?

I posted this in the LCD forum too, sorry if that's going to annoy people..

Thanks!
November 23, 2006 10:42:07 AM

Quote:
Hi people,

I'm wondering if I can get a bit of advice. I am planning to get a
high end new machine in the new year -with Vista and a 8800 GTX
graphics card. I'll spend around £2500. And my main focus is on
gaming. But it seems to me that there are no LCD monitors out there
that can do that spec justice. This site, when reviewing the 7950 GX2,
said there was nopoint in getting it if you play in less than 1600x1200.
The 8800GTX will make this situation even worse!

So my question is, unless you have a CRT monitor the size of a small
car, is there any point in purchasing the 8800GTX? Is there a gaming
LCD up to the task?

I posted this in the LCD forum too, sorry if that's going to annoy people..

Thanks!


So how big is your current monitor and what res. do you play at? If you currently have like a 14" monitor and you play at 1024x768 there would be not much point to a 8800GTX other than DX10 compatability.

But lets turn it around... it sounds like you already play at pretty low resolutions for some reason. A better investment than a 8800 GTX might be a bigger monitor if thats your limiting factor.

I have a 24" widescreen LCD (dell 2405fpw) that is 1920x1200 native. Works great for gaming. I'm currently building a new system with 2 8800GTX's in SLI but intend to keep the same monitor.
November 23, 2006 10:59:45 AM

Well, the way I work it is to buy a top end system every
5 years or so. But the last time around I actually decided
to go for a 'games-capable' notebook computer -but it's
basically a dinosaur now. So I'm looking to jump to the
top end again and enjoy the next year's DX10 games.
But it seems to me that you can't get a high res (1600x1200+)
LCD monitor that will do the hardware justice (i.e. have a
<15ms response time etc). In other words, there seems no
point in buying a 8800 GTX unless you have at least a 21"
CRT monitor. And space for me is an issue. Anything else
and you're paying for a graphics card that you can't fully
utilise -that won't confer any great performance advantage
at lower resolutions over cheaper cards.

EDIT: Sorry didn't see all of your message for some reason.
Strangely, I didn't see the dell 2405fpw when I was searching
before. But even if you check the Tom's Hardware 20" LCD
reviews from a few months back he seems to be saying that
various quality factors (not just response time) aren't up to
scratch (compared to the 19" sweet spot) -e.g. 'sparkling' and
brightness coverage and such like...

But you really rate the Dell then?...
Related resources
November 23, 2006 11:29:07 AM

Quote:
Well, the way I work it is to buy a top end system every
5 years or so. But the last time around I actually decided
to go for a 'games-capable' notebook computer -but it's
basically a dinosaur now. So I'm looking to jump to the
top end again and enjoy the next year's DX10 games.
But it seems to me that you can't get a high res (1600x1200+)
LCD monitor that will do the hardware justice (i.e. have a
<15ms response time etc). In other words, there seems no
point in buying a 8800 GTX unless you have at least a 21"
CRT monitor. And space for me is an issue. Anything else
and you're paying for a graphics card that you can't fully
utilise -that won't confer any great performance advantage
at lower resolutions over cheaper cards.

EDIT: Sorry didn't see all of your message for some reason.
Strangely, I didn't see the dell 2405fpw when I was searching
before. But even if you check the Tom's Hardware 20" LCD
reviews from a few months back he seems to be saying that
various quality factors (not just response time) aren't up to
scratch (compared to the 19" sweet spot) -e.g. 'sparkling' and
brightness coverage and such like...

But you really rate the Dell then?...


I do like my monitor a lot.. no problems like any you mention. The 2405 is even an old model. The later one (2407) has been out for a while and I think may have an even faster refresh.

You need to go look at some specs of whats out there. It sounds like your info is pretty dated.
November 23, 2006 11:56:24 AM

2407 is good, only supports HDCP at 720p though so no so good for HD-DVD / Blue ray playback. You can get them from Overclockers.co.uk for less than dell sell them for... or even cheaper on ebay (£499 i think).

One up from that is the new benQ FP241W, also available at overclockers. its more expensive though. Morecomputers.co.uk have had it listed cheaper for some time, although as yet I haven't seen any stock availability.
November 23, 2006 11:59:00 AM

According to the Dell website, the 2407 has a black-to-white
response time of 16ms. I understood that anything greater
than 15ms was not really good enough for gaming?... The best
price-to-performance spot is about 8ms, with the most expensive
19" models managing 2ms....

Also, there has been some complaints on this board about
widescreen format LCDs in general, so I was kinda looking
at the 4:3 ratio...
November 23, 2006 12:16:04 PM

Quote:
Hi people,

I'm wondering if I can get a bit of advice. I am planning to get a
high end new machine in the new year -with Vista and a 8800 GTX
graphics card. I'll spend around £2500. And my main focus is on
gaming. But it seems to me that there are no LCD monitors out there
that can do that spec justice. This site, when reviewing the 7950 GX2,
said there was nopoint in getting it if you play in less than 1600x1200.
The 8800GTX will make this situation even worse!

So my question is, unless you have a CRT monitor the size of a small
car, is there any point in purchasing the 8800GTX? Is there a gaming
LCD up to the task?

I posted this in the LCD forum too, sorry if that's going to annoy people..

Thanks!


So how big is your current monitor and what res. do you play at? If you currently have like a 14" monitor and you play at 1024x768 there would be not much point to a 8800GTX other than DX10 compatability.

But lets turn it around... it sounds like you already play at pretty low resolutions for some reason. A better investment than a 8800 GTX might be a bigger monitor if thats your limiting factor.

I have a 24" widescreen LCD (dell 2405fpw) that is 1920x1200 native. Works great for gaming. I'm currently building a new system with 2 8800GTX's in SLI but intend to keep the same monitor.

no offense, but having 2 8800GTX's on that monitor seems a waste. If you had 2 of those monitors then maybe...
a b Î Nvidia
November 23, 2006 12:37:01 PM

Have a look at the Viewsonic VX922.
I'm very pleased with mine. Although not a wide screen. But I dont watch movies on my comp.
Also wide screen monitors are not as tall as standard format screens. So this means a lot more verticle scrolling to see the whole page. A 24" widescreen is about the same height as a 19" standard screen.
November 23, 2006 12:50:34 PM

Quote:
no offense, but having 2 8800GTX's on that monitor seems a waste. If you had 2 of those monitors then maybe...
Not bogged down enough for ya? Turn on AA and AF.
And I'm not talking about 4xAA and 8xAF either.
Try playing with 16xAA and 32xAF. (32xAA if using SLI)

Trust me, its a world of difference... 8)
November 23, 2006 1:07:24 PM

I'm gaming on a 42 inch Westinghouse... 1920x1080... Very nice LCD monitor. I have to use VSYNC on occasion but couldn't be happier. I'm sure I could max out 2 8800GTX's on that thing... But right now I'm managing it with a single XFX 7800GTX. Ohh yeah, the response time is 8MS, not sure what flavour though.

-DW
November 23, 2006 1:16:11 PM

If you're going with the 8800 GTX, snag a 30" widescreen monitor. Don't get an LCD TV though, because I believe most of them only support resolutions of 1366x768, even though they say 1080i and 1080p are like 1920x1200 (however, I believe that's only for HDMI capability, though I could be wrong). However, the 30 inchers have a refreshing 2560x1600 resolution. The Dell has an 11 ms response time (not great, but still good, especially given the size). Although it has some slight ghosting from time to time in DVD playback (according to CNet), it still performs well. The wiki says that ghosting only occurs when the frames per second are faster than the refresh rate. 50 fps would have to have a monitor refresh rate of 20 ms, for example. You could also check out the HP and Apple 30" displays.

*Edit* From here.

Quote:
The latest addition to Dell's award-winning line of flat panel monitors, the Dell UltraSharpTM 3007WFP-HC raises the bar even higher for gaming and multimedia entertainment and productivity. The Dell UltraSharp 3007WFP-HC features 92 percent color gamut, an enhancement that delivers the latest in dynamic color technology to make colors richer and more realistic for a dramatic gaming experience.

Today, most monitors feature color gamut covering 72 percent of the NTSC color space. The new Dell 30-inch monitor increases the coverage to 92 percent of the NTSC color space utilizing a Wide Cold-Cathode Fluorescent Lighting (W-CCFL) backlight that delivers gamers, photographers and digital media "prosumers" highly vibrant and vivid images such as deeper reds and crisper blues. The wider color spectrum expands capabilities for users whether they are editing video, working with CAD applications or enjoying the latest games.

Additional features of the Dell UltraSharp 3007WFP-HC include 2,560 x 1,600 (WQXGA) resolution, 8-millisecond typical response time2, height-adjustable stand with tilt and swivel capabilities, integrated 9-in-2 media card reader, and four USB 2.0 ports for connecting devices such as digital cameras and printers.
November 23, 2006 1:29:18 PM

If you pick the right LCD-TV, however, they are very excellent!

Dells are also pretty nice too. I almost decided to go with the 3007 instead of the TV. I do however use a 2405 as my second display. Sometimes I game on the Westy while watching TV on the Dell... how ironic.

-DW
November 23, 2006 1:36:51 PM

I've considered buying a T.V. just so I wouldn't have to buy a TV Tuner card for the PC.
November 23, 2006 1:37:27 PM

i've been researching new monitors for when i upgrade to vista and a 8800 series car card so far the the best monitors i've come up with are the following
(not listed by preference or price) all support hdcp and in size from 19" to 30" got them from a list on firing sqaud
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/windows_vista-ready...
1. Gateway FPD2185W
2. HP f2105
3. NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2
4. Samsung SyncMaster 244T
5. Viewsonic VP2330wb
6. Dell 3007WFP
7. Samsung 214T
8. Samsung 930MP
9. Samsung 940MW
10. Samsung 242MP
11. Sony MFM-HT95
12. Sony MFM-HT75W
i also found this monitor on newegg SAMSUNG 205BW Black 20" 6ms Widescreen LCD Monitor with Height Adjustments - Retail it's the only hdcp monitor i can find under $300
right now i'm leaning toward the NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2 or the Samsung SyncMaster 244T depending on my final budget
November 23, 2006 1:40:35 PM

2 good samsung LCD monitor are also the 204B and the 931C, both are up to the task.
November 23, 2006 1:57:51 PM

Quote:
Hi people,

I'm wondering if I can get a bit of advice. I am planning to get a
high end new machine in the new year -with Vista and a 8800 GTX
graphics card. I'll spend around £2500. And my main focus is on
gaming. But it seems to me that there are no LCD monitors out there
that can do that spec justice. This site, when reviewing the 7950 GX2,
said there was nopoint in getting it if you play in less than 1600x1200.
The 8800GTX will make this situation even worse!

So my question is, unless you have a CRT monitor the size of a small
car, is there any point in purchasing the 8800GTX? Is there a gaming
LCD up to the task?

I posted this in the LCD forum too, sorry if that's going to annoy people..

Thanks!


So how big is your current monitor and what res. do you play at? If you currently have like a 14" monitor and you play at 1024x768 there would be not much point to a 8800GTX other than DX10 compatability.

But lets turn it around... it sounds like you already play at pretty low resolutions for some reason. A better investment than a 8800 GTX might be a bigger monitor if thats your limiting factor.

I have a 24" widescreen LCD (dell 2405fpw) that is 1920x1200 native. Works great for gaming. I'm currently building a new system with 2 8800GTX's in SLI but intend to keep the same monitor.

no offense, but having 2 8800GTX's on that monitor seems a waste. If you had 2 of those monitors then maybe...

sure its probably overkill for most DX9 on XP games out right now (except oblivion), but I'm building a whole new system that I plan will last for a while... Who knows what crysis under DX10 under vista will need. Vista is a resource hog. Even todays games run 15% slower under vista than XP for the same thing.

Anyway we're past worrying about outright framerates any more, its more about maxing out the photorealsitic eyecandy. Like VTOLfreak says... you should see 32xAA.
November 23, 2006 2:05:01 PM

Quote:
I still think that going with that 30" dell will be something that you will actually need 2 gtxs in order to run at max hdr


Yeah I concur. I have a friend doing exactly that.
November 23, 2006 2:14:01 PM

Holy cr*p, a ton of helpful answers, thanks guys :D 

I am, however, possibly a little more confused than before
by all the options presented here!
I think a 30" is probably too big. The Dell 24" sounds good
-except the 16ms sounds really poor. I have it in my head
that 1600 x 1200 is the ideal resolution. The 21" wide format
LCDs all have a vertical of around 1024 so I don't feel like
they would truly make use of the 8800 GTX.

But i'll need to go look up some of these suggestions. Thanks!

What nobody has mentioned is the Tom's Hardware reviews
of 20" LCDs that seem to say that the quality is not yet in
the same league as the 19". Is that assesment of their failings
only something that a super expert eye would notice?...
November 23, 2006 3:21:10 PM

There's 2 different timings quoted on LCD's, the on - off and the grey to grey. The super fast times you hear about (2ms etc) are normally the grey 2 grey. The BenQ 241 and the Dell 2407 both have a 6ms grey to grey - so not much slower.

Unless your some super hard core FPS player I doubt you would notice :) 
November 23, 2006 6:50:52 PM

Quote:

no, you would want at least 1920x1600 (high def) if you have a gtx


does that resolution even exsist?

Anyways i have a 244t 24" wide screen 1920x1200 i use a x1900xtx and play games like half life 2 oblivion bf2 so on at the max res and all cranked to max settings with really no issues at all. however i would love to get a xfire setup for a bit more frames ;)  vary rarly do i get a slow down or stutter but i want to do away with it.

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRe...

most likely the next monitor im getting. Has a insane resolution and will work my crosffire setup to the ground XD.

been using this monitor for the past few months with no problems no ghosting.

Not sure why higher then refresh rate of a LCD would cause ghosting it would just disguard the frames it cannot show.
November 23, 2006 6:57:10 PM

Quote:
no, you would want at least 1920x1600 (high def) if you have a gtx


Yep I agree. That was why I chose my 24". The 1920x1200 res means it will do full screen hi-def ( 1920x1080) without having to scale the image. Scaling artifacts can ruin a good movie.

Honestly when you're sat up close and using it as a monitor for gaming, 24" fills your view. I personally find 30" to be too big to be able to take everything in quickly as you'd actually have to look around to see the whole screen.
That means you'd get your ass handed to you in online FPS games like UT.
November 23, 2006 7:10:07 PM

Quote:
Holy cr*p, a ton of helpful answers, thanks guys :D 

I am, however, possibly a little more confused than before
by all the options presented here!
I think a 30" is probably too big. The Dell 24" sounds good
-except the 16ms sounds really poor. I have it in my head
that 1600 x 1200 is the ideal resolution. The 21" wide format
LCDs all have a vertical of around 1024 so I don't feel like
they would truly make use of the 8800 GTX.

But i'll need to go look up some of these suggestions. Thanks!

What nobody has mentioned is the Tom's Hardware reviews
of 20" LCDs that seem to say that the quality is not yet in
the same league as the 19". Is that assesment of their failings
only something that a super expert eye would notice?...


>> The Dell 24" sounds good -except the 16ms sounds really poor.

Huh where did you get that from? the 2407FPW has a response time of 6ms.

>> I have it in my head that 1600 x 1200 is the ideal resolution.

Nope because thats not even full hi-def.

>> What nobody has mentioned is the Tom's Hardware reviews of 20" LCDs that seem to say that the quality is not yet in the same league as the 19".

So don't buy a 20" buy a 24". Also that article is probably well out of date by now. When was it written?

>> Is that assesment of their failings only something that a super expert eye would notice?

Put it this way... my 19" Eizo L675 cost me over $4000 new about 5 years ago... It was the best professional LCD panel you could buy. Alongside my Dell 2405FPW that cost me about $1000 it looks crap. LCD technology has come a long way in a short time. Keep away from old articles about LCD panels.
November 23, 2006 7:29:59 PM

Try the LG FLATRON L1970 HR I have one and im extremly impressed with both the image quality and the speed, there is absolutely no streaks/ghosting. It has a 1600:1 contrast ratio with a 2 ms response time, and its really slim. How ever the resolution tops out @ 1280x1024 75 hz.

http://ca.lge.com/en/prodmodeldetail.do?actType=search&...
November 23, 2006 7:44:45 PM

That would be awsome as hell if it didnt use a resolutiuon i used with my rage fury 32 meg :-/ and stopped using when i got the radeon :o  1600x1200 minimum but to low :( 
November 24, 2006 1:50:03 AM

I have the acer 24" and it works great.
November 24, 2006 2:05:24 PM

Quote:
no offense, but having 2 8800GTX's on that monitor seems a waste. If you had 2 of those monitors then maybe...
Not bogged down enough for ya? Turn on AA and AF.
And I'm not talking about 4xAA and 8xAF either.
Try playing with 16xAA and 32xAF. (32xAA if using SLI)

Trust me, its a world of difference... 8)32xAF does not exist on any modern videocard, no matter how many you have in your configuration.
November 24, 2006 4:10:04 PM

Quote:
32xAF does not exist on any modern videocard, no matter how many you have in your configuration.
Whoops. I meant 16xAF.
Got things mixed up there...
November 24, 2006 5:00:42 PM

No one has mentioned that Dell will be releasing a new, upgraded 30inch LCD any day now. Their press release said November 21st, but I called today and it is still not available yet. It has an improved color gamut, 8ms response times, and provides mulitple resolutions for gamers, not just 1280 by 768, or 2536 by 1600, but also the more popular resolutions for games at 1600by 1200 and 1980 by 1200. It also has some kinda new special backlighting tube that provides for a much better picture. It sounds perfect for my new SLI 8800Gtx system, but it retails for 1699 instead of the 1274 that the old monitor can be had for. The designation for the new monitor is 3007wfp-hc. The -hc is the new monitor, I would check it out before I made a final decision. Also HP has a new 30inch LCD and can be found at Cdw for 1649 after rebate, but the Dell looks like the better monitor to me. Samsung also has a new monitor comming out the 305t but I cant find it anywhere. You will defintely need a 30 inch in order to use the 2500by 1600 the 8800's are capable of. Good luck!!
November 24, 2006 5:35:37 PM

Quote:
I think 2560x1920 is high enough for anyone/anything
It's 2560x1600, but it certainly is high enough. :wink:
November 24, 2006 6:34:23 PM

I think some people have missed a key point of your post, reviewers say it's only worth using SLI (7950 GX2) if you are gaming at a res of 1600(+). As you don't say you are going SLI with the 8800 then any fast 19-21" LCD monitor would be fine. Correct me if I'm wrong.
November 24, 2006 9:48:19 PM

at 1600x1200 there is absolutly no reason to get sli at that crappy resolution a single card could tare it up at well over 100 frames in max settings. SLI is more 1920 and up kind of thing. i know i put this link up already about hte samsung monitor but since dude talking about 30" didnt see it ill throw it up again.

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRe...
November 28, 2006 4:05:00 AM

if u really want my opinion it seems like you're stuck on the 19" monitors for some reason, so if you actuakky WANT 19" monitors get 3 of the viewsonic 19" 2ms Response time monitors and get a matrox triplehead2go and have a width of 45" and a resolution of 3840x1024 for unbelievable gaming, each monitor about $275 ea plus a triplehead to go abut $250 whic gives you a better resolution than a 24" monitor for $1100!
November 28, 2006 5:10:04 AM

Mmmm dont really care for 19" monitors and i game so that wouldnt be a vary practical setup. I am however stuck on large high res displays.
!