Motherboard help.

[Ebua]

I've always been an avid reader of the TG forumz (mostly in the graphics area ) and it's finally time for a post... I need some help. It basically comes down to having a lot of information and needing help processing it.

Either the motherboard or the graphics card died on my system recently and either way I decided that I should replace both. The reasoning is that I'd rather update to PCIe graphics rather than get an AGP replacement and have to upgrade again in a year or so. Graphics cards I can figure out on my own for the most part as it's just a matter of catching up on some reading. Motherboards I'm not too sure about. I know some of the basics, but would definitely like some help from people who definitely know more about this stuff than I do. While being mostly a motherboard concern there is a bit of overall computer hardware advice I'm looking for as well.

Specs we need to know:

Form type: ATX
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 @ 3GHz with HT technology
Memory: 2GB DDR at 400MHz
Power supply: 460W

My perfect situation would allow me to purchase a new motherboard and graphics card allowing me to update everything else at a later date. (CPU and RAM mostly) In my searches I have found some motherboards that allow me to do this with my current processor but I'm having a hard time finding something to support my older RAM. I just bought the second gig of ram last year and would love to be able to hold on to it for a bit longer.

My questions are:

1) Is there a motherboard out there that I'm missing that works with my RAM while still giving me the ability to update my computer with more recent technology at a later date? (mainly would need to update to the newest RAM and CPU)

2) While I think I'm fine, do I need to update my power supply with the coming upgrades of motherboard and graphics card?

Let me know if there is anything else we need to know before we can come up with a solution.


Thanks so much in advance for your help.

 

[yas]

For your first question question as far as i know i am pretty sure that motherboards that support DDR2 ram do not support DDR1. I am not sure on that however so does anyone else know if the DIMM ports are backwards compatible?? For your second question depending on what graphics card you have you might need an extra 4 pin power connector so i dont know if your PSU has one and also check if your gfx card needs one. As you can see im no pro but i guess (or at least i hope) my answer is better than no answer.

The problem is that if you update one thing you have to update everything. that gfx card wont work with this board but the board wont work with this processor but the processor wont work with this ram but all this needs a new PSU etc etc....

 

[cd14]

Is that a socket 775 CPU? And yes there are motherboards that have both DDR and DDR2 slots (of course use is either or).

 

[zjohnr]

1) Is there a motherboard out there that I'm missing that works with my RAM while still giving me the ability to update my computer with more recent technology at a later date? (mainly would need to update to the newest RAM and CPU)

It's hard to answer without knowing more about your CPU and your DDR SDRAM. I assumed you have a socket T (LGA 775) Pentium. If you don't then ignore the rest of this post.

The two Intel 775 motherboards I know of that use DDR both use an older Via chipset.

One is by Asus and is a uATX board (IIRC). The other, better known, motherboard is (of course) the ASRock 775Dual-VSTA, LGA 775, VIA PT880 PRO ATX which newegg currently sells for ~$63 shipped.

This ASRock board is a low-end niche motherboard intended to allow folk to upgrade to a new Intel 775 CPU while continuing to use their existing DDR SDRAM and/or AGP video card. And that feature of being able to reuse your existing hardware and also move up to a Core 2 CPU is pretty much a list of the "pros" for this mobo.

The con's list would run something like this:
[*:9ba75965c5]There are only 2 DDR slots and 2 DDR2 slots. You can not use both types of memory at the same time. It's either DDR or DDR2. So if your 2GB of DDR is 2x 1GB sticks, you'd be fine. If not, then you would not be able to reuse all of your DDR.
[*:9ba75965c5]There is both an AGP slot and a PCIe video slot. However, the PCIe video is only a 4x channel slot. Supposedly this does not kill performance noticeably, but it's probably still a concern to you.
[*:9ba75965c5]This is a low-end motherboard. Some folks have expressed concerns over the quality of the board.
[*:9ba75965c5]This is a low-end motherboard. It does not support overclocking in any meaningful/useful way.


I considered this ASRock board briefly because I'm looking to move to a Core 2 CPU in a month or three. In the end I decided that it really made the most sense for a person who wanted to reuse both their AGP video and their DDR SDRAM. For someone like me (or you?) who only wants to do one or the other, I decided it didn't make (enough) sense.

FWIW,
-john, the redundant legacy dinosaur

 

[Ebua]

First off, thank you for the replies so far.

I'll definitely have to check out my PSU and see what power options I have on it. Thanks for the heads up on that. I'm also undecided on what gfx card I'll get which I guess plays into that, but that's another story.

As for the socket stuff, I'm not too sure how to figure out which I have. I know that my chipset is an Intel 875P. Does that help? If not, please let me know how I can find that info for you.

As for the RAM situation, I have 4 sticks of 512Kb that I'm currently using and from reading the responses I'm assuming that there is no way to get a board with a slot that will be able to use both. Just boards that have both slots on them. I guess I need to update my ram as well.

 

[zjohnr]

Pretty much all I'm doing in this post is putting up some links to other info. More than a few of these I haven't actually looked at closely myself yet. But posting the links FYI, if any. If they help, great. If they, don't help then never mind.

I'll definitely have to check out my PSU and see what power options I have on it.

Some PSU related links:
eXtreme Power Supply Calculator v2.0
List of recommended PSUs to save ppl some time: thread
PSU 101 sticky thread

As for the socket stuff, I'm not too sure how to figure out which I have. I know that my chipset is an Intel 875P. Does that help?

I could guess, but a better way to go is for you to get CPU-Z, run it, and then post the info. Here's a link to the CPU-Z webpage.

CPU-Z is an extremely nifty stand-alone program. By stand-alone I mean you don't have to install it. You can just run it, from say, a USB flash drive.

To use CPU-Z you download its zip file, unzip to a directory, and then start the cpuz.exe program within that directory. After a delay of 5-10 seconds, CPU-Z will put up a tabbed window that will tell you what processor is used, what socket/package it uses, how fast it is running, and a bunch more interesting stuff.

So download CPU-Z and run it. It should tell you which Pentium 4 you're got. Then you can find out if a motherboard you are thinking of getting will support the CPU you have now. (That is, if keeping your current CPU is what you eventually decide to still do ...)

As for the RAM situation, I have 4 sticks of 512Kb that I'm currently using and from reading the responses I'm assuming that there is no way to get a board with a slot that will be able to use both.

Here's a link to a newegg.com search for Intel motherboards that support DDR-400 and which have no AGP slot. Is this the sort of motherboard you think you might be interested in?

BTW, ignore the Foxconn 915GL7MC-8KS in the search results. It's a really strange critter: a motherboard with no AGP slot and no PCIe slots. Who would want to buy such a thing? :?

-john, the redundant legacy dinosaur

 

[zjohnr]

Either the motherboard or the graphics card died on my system recently ...

My apologies for being a complete idiot! I had forgotten that your current system is dead when I made the suggestion to run CPU-Z to collect info about the CPU.

Not sure what to suggest now other than taking off the heat sink and reading the Intel part numbers off of the CPU.

-john

 

[Guest]

I'm guessing your CPU is socket 478, but if doesn't have pins underneath then it's a socket 775. Which would put in a better situation.

It'll be pretty tough to move up without losing some of your current parts, since the new stuff is newer technology and they go hand in hand.

How about getting a Core 2 CPU/motherboard combo with integrated video for now? They make them with DDR and DDR2. Fry's Electronics (if you'll near one) usually give the motherboards away with the CPU purchase. This way you have a operable computer and you can get the PCI-E and/or motherboard later. Just a thought.

 

[Ebua]

I'm guessing your CPU is socket 478, but if doesn't have pins underneath then it's a socket 775. Which would put in a better situation.

I think you're right, I got the part number off my CPU and plugged it in to Intel's website.

http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL6WK

That's what I got, and I'm assuming that shows that my CPU is socket 478. I'm leaning toward the fact that I may not be able to get a mobo that will take my current CPU and allow me to upgrade to something like a Core2Duo in the future. Would that be correct?

 

[zjohnr]

I'm leaning toward the fact that I may not be able to get a mobo that will take my current CPU and allow me to upgrade to something like a Core2Duo in the future. Would that be correct?

That is correct. According to the link you posted your CPU is a 478 pin package. The Core 2 CPUs are all 775 pin/connector. (Intel's LGA 775 processors don't have pins they have connectors. The "pins" are in the socket on the motherboard. Intel managed to shift the burden of dealing with bent pins to the motherboard manufacturers. It's nice to have monopoly power, no? )

Compare the details for your processor with these for an Intel Core 2 Duo E6400. The package type for your processor is 478 pin. For the E6400 is LGA 775. Incompatible socket types.

-john, the redundant legacy dinosaur

 

[Ebua]

Alright, I think that solves all my problems then. Looks like I need to update pretty much everything or buy some cheap parts for now just to get it up and running and get a new PC somewhere in the future.

Thanks again to everyone for the help.

 

[zjohnr]

Looks like I need to update pretty much everything or buy some cheap parts for now just to get it up and running and get a new PC somewhere in the future.

Yes, that's the dillema, isn't it.

It may not be of any use to you, but here's my two cents. If you want to upgrade everything, then at this moment Core 2 Duo is the direction that gives you the most performance. Bouncing the numbers and guesstimating, that boils down to something like this:
:arrow: E6300 CPU ~$180 +/- $10
:arrow: P965 mobo ~$100 +/- $30 (??)
:arrow: 1GB DDR2 ~$100 +/- $10

So a total in the vicinity of $480 +/- $50 before the video card of your choice.

If you buy a replacement mobo and CPU to tide you over a bit longer, then I'd suggest looking at an AMD socket 939 board that supports PCIe and DDR. Because AMD is "End Of Life"-ing the 939s, you might be able to get a good combo price on a 939 mobo and single core CPU.

A single core Athlon 939 could still give you pretty good gaming performance and going with a PCIe motherboard would give you more video card flexibility. And you could probably go that route for $100-$200 if you looked around carefully.

Just speculating out loud. Good luck to you however you decide to work it out.

-john

 

[Ebua]

I'm a little undecided about what I want to do right now. It's all boiling down to spending money. (and right before christmas too, lol)

Thanks for the quick pricing though, it helps a lot.

 

[zjohnr]

Like I say, it's just a guess, but I don't think it's too far off.

Also, to be clear, if you go with an AMD 939 system your choices for a future CPU upgrade would range from very limited to none since AMD is EOLing their socket 939 processors. So whatever you got is what you'd be pretty much stuck with.

All depends on how much value you place on keeping your current 2GB of DDR, I guess. If it's DDR-400 PC3200, then that's an investment to think about keeping. But you could also try selling the DDR on eBay and putting the proceeds towards a C2D system.

Or maybe you've got a relative with deep pockets you can make Christmas gift suggestions to.

-john