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Last Decision! Ordering Soon!

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November 25, 2006 2:34:38 PM

Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 $217.97

Gigabyte GA-965P-S3 ATX LGA775 $145.22

Ocz Platinum Xtc PC2-6400 2GB $273.47 - $30 rebate
I'm curious about this 2.1V ram. Would it boot up right away with the mobo? or do I have a tweak it with some genetic ram :( 

Antec P150 Quiet PC ATX Tower Case w/ Neo HE 430W $168.30
This powersupply is good right? (3 12V with 48A)

Sapphire Radeon X1950 XT 625MHZ PCI-E $297
I'm wondering which one I should get between this and GTS..

Pioneer DVD-RW $38.91

MITSUMI FLASH Reader $23.76

Western Digital Caviar SE 160GB SATA2 $72.05
good enough

$1289.85 Canadian
all from www.directcanada.com

How is it?
Thanks :) 

More about : decision ordering

November 25, 2006 2:54:49 PM

Quote:
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 $217.97

Gigabyte GA-965P-S3 ATX LGA775 $145.22

Ocz Platinum Xtc PC2-6400 2GB $273.47 - $30 rebate
I'm curious about this 2.1V ram. Would it boot up right away with the mobo? or do I have a tweak it with some genetic ram :( 

Antec P150 Quiet PC ATX Tower Case w/ Neo HE 430W $168.30
This powersupply is good right? (3 12V with 48A)

Sapphire Radeon X1950 XT 625MHZ PCI-E $297
I'm wondering which one I should get between this and GTS..

Pioneer DVD-RW $38.91

MITSUMI FLASH Reader $23.76

Western Digital Caviar SE 160GB SATA2 $72.05
good enough

$1289.85 Canadian
all from www.directcanada.com

How is it?
Thanks :) 


RAM - Stay away from OCZ as above posted

Video card - Go with the GTS if you can, it is MUCH better!

Case/PSU - It's a rule of thumb never to buy a case w/ a psu. The PSU is usually low quality and burns out within three months.
November 25, 2006 3:29:54 PM

yeh but they sell NEO HE (High-Efficiency) PSU seperately as well.

but in this case, it just comes with it..
Related resources
November 25, 2006 3:39:41 PM

Quote:
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 $217.97

This cpu is $180 at newegg.com with free shipping. Can almost get a 6400 for that price.
Check newegg for the S3 mobo as well. only $116.99 + shipping.

Don't know where you're shopping, but they're too high. :) 

Between newegg, mwave and pricegrabber, you should be able to come up with some better deals.
November 25, 2006 3:47:30 PM

yea that corsair posted above is nice, and id go with newegg and try to find yourself some combos w/ discounts.
November 25, 2006 3:54:41 PM

Quote:
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 $217.97

This cpu is $180 at newegg.com with free shipping. Can almost get a 6400 for that price.
Check newegg for the S3 mobo as well. only $116.99 + shipping.

Don't know where you're shopping, but they're too high. :) 

Between newegg, mwave and pricegrabber, you should be able to come up with some better deals.

Can you read ?

It says he's buying off a Canadian site. And those are Canadian dollars.
November 25, 2006 3:57:56 PM

Quote:
Can you read ?

It says he's buying off a Canadian site. And those are Canadian dollars.

Doh! Sorry. See what I get for trying to help?
November 25, 2006 4:26:29 PM

Quote:
I don't know if its cheaper including shipping, but these parts are cheaper here (canadian store):

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct...

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct...

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct...

Others suggested not to use OCZ ram, I honestly don't know much about ram, but it's cheaper at this store none the less..


the first link you got me is X1950PRO, not X1950XT and about the mobo, yup it is cheaper.

and the memory you picked, is actually $20 more than my ram since mines 266 - 30 = $236

thanks :p 


Can anyone tell me what disadvantage i would get choosing a X1950XT over GTS? in VISTA?

is there a REALLY big difference? I ONLY play at 800 x 600
(cs:s, cs 1.6, bf2 .. stuff)
November 25, 2006 4:40:40 PM

DX10 capability. With an 8800GTS you better not be playing on 800X600 or I'll have to come up there and kick your Canuck ass. :-P
November 25, 2006 4:45:52 PM

Quote:
I'm curious about this 2.1V ram. Would it boot up right away with the mobo? or do I have a tweak it with some genetic ram :( 

Do all you can to stay the hell away from OCZ RAM. It sucks big time with 965 mobos.

You will most likely need a cheap RAM stick to tweak the settings if you want the OCZ to somehow work.

I would pay few extra $$$ to get this RAM.

Or get this Corsair.

You need to stop living in the past. The issue with OCZ was that it ran at 2.1 volts and the motherboard only put out 1.8 on startup. That was FIXED A LONG TIME AGO. I'm using OCZ Gold XTC and My Giga 965 S3 for over a month now. Put in the sticks and booted NO PROBLEM. As a matterof fact I'm running them @ 475(950) 1:1 and have had it as high as 500Mhz. So please revise the info you give out on these.
November 25, 2006 4:48:48 PM

heh 800x600 FTW

so if i play 800x600 or maybe 1280x1024
X1900XT would be fine right? (cs1.6, cs:cz, cs:s, bf2)

and Id like to use vista in the future as well, would i be having trouble running vista with E6300 and x1900xt?
November 25, 2006 4:56:48 PM

With any X1900 you should be able to play at 1280x1024 in almost game including Oblivion so long as your other system components keep up ok. :-) If you average 30fps+ in games the game is playable. A lot of people play at 25fps or so and do fine, although to me that's fairly choppy.

Vista will run fine using an X1900 card, but you won't be able to play DX10 games without a DX10 card.
November 25, 2006 5:17:08 PM

Do you reckon they'll bring out new games with DX9 and DX10 compatability???
November 25, 2006 5:23:41 PM

I'd be surprised there weren't some good DX10 games out in a year or so.
November 25, 2006 5:36:54 PM

Quote:
I'd be surprised there weren't some good DX10 games out in a year or so.


Okay, So ive decided to get the rig as i proposed

and for the PSU, it can hold x1950xt easy right? (3 12v lines, 16A each. 48A total)

Neo He 430w :p 
November 25, 2006 5:38:41 PM

Now just isn't a good time to be buying low wattage PSU's...go for at least a 750w, they can be found for $130. It's also not a great time to buy a video card really, as DX10 cards will be getting cheaper in just a couple months time, and you'll end up wanting one. They do pretty good at stomping current cards. The 8800GTS is like $450, and provides you with a platform to play future DX10 games. How much is the X1950 you're looking at? I'd say wait a couple months, and if you're that hard up for a video card, try finding a used or refurbished 7600GT or something. You can find a card to play most games for under $100. Just consider it a very temporary card.
November 25, 2006 6:16:20 PM

Well I DO have to buy a computer at the end of the month because thats when my dads buying some machines and stuff. so I wouldnt really WANT to wait.

the x1900xt is $300 CAD
and GTS $530 CAD (which is really cheap compared to other places)

I might just spend $200 more bucks on it.. hmm
November 25, 2006 6:53:58 PM

Quote:
I don't know if its cheaper including shipping, but these parts are cheaper here (canadian store):

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct...

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct...

http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct...

Others suggested not to use OCZ ram, I honestly don't know much about ram, but it's cheaper at this store none the less..


the first link you got me is X1950PRO, not X1950XT and about the mobo, yup it is cheaper.

and the memory you picked, is actually $20 more than my ram since mines 266 - 30 = $236

thanks :p 


Can anyone tell me what disadvantage i would get choosing a X1950XT over GTS? in VISTA?

is there a REALLY big difference? I ONLY play at 800 x 600
(cs:s, cs 1.6, bf2 .. stuff)

Didn't pay enough attention :/ 

If you play at 800 x 600 on an 8800 or any 1900 series, I will come and smash your computer. I play most games at 1280x1024 (or 1440 x 900 if I'm using the widescreen) on a mobility x1600 and it runs fine...

If you can afford the 8800GTS it will be much better in the future. You wont see much of a difference right now, but in DX10 games there will obviously be a difference.
November 25, 2006 7:20:09 PM

What are your objectives for this system? Gaming? Vista? Quiet? Budget? Overclocking?

This info will help with recommendations.


Motherboard: good for overclocking but no RAID, eSATA or firewire support. Suggest Asus P5B-E if any of these are important to you (try to get the 1.02G rev vs 1.01G).

Memory: The OCZ ram price has dropped but appears unavailable. Make sure to get some with a CL4 latency for best overclocking potential (eg. 4-4-4-12). Major brands such as Corsair, OCZ, Muskin, G.Skill, and Kingston are all good.
OCZ Platinum XTC PC2-6400 4-5-4-15

Power Supply: The NEO HE that comes with the case has been reported to be unreliable with the Antec Sonata II case so YMMV. Suggest getting a brand name such as Antec, Enermax or OCZ in the 500+W range.

Graphics Card: Good card but you could get an X1950 Pro and save $60 for about 85-90% of the same performance. Another alternative is to get a XFX 7600 GT for about $165 and then later upgrade to a DX10 card when the prices undoubted drop to more reasonable levels.

Overclocking: For successful overclocking you will need an aftermarket HSF such as Sunbeam Tuniq Tower, Scythe Infinity or Thermaltake Big Typhoon and additional case fans (at least one input and one exhaust fan).

Another CAN store to look at is:
NCIX

Good luck with your build.
November 25, 2006 7:42:21 PM

Quote:
What are your objectives for this system? Gaming? Vista? Quiet? Budget? Overclocking?

This info will help with recommendations.


Motherboard: good for overclocking but no RAID, eSATA or firewire support. Suggest Asus P5B-E if any of these are important to you (try to get the 1.02G rev vs 1.01G).

Memory: The OCZ ram price has dropped but appears unavailable. Make sure to get some with a CL4 latency for best overclocking potential (eg. 4-4-4-12). Major brands such as Corsair, OCZ, Muskin, G.Skill, and Kingston are all good.
OCZ Platinum XTC PC2-6400 4-5-4-15

Power Supply: The NEO HE that comes with the case has been reported to be unreliable with the Antec Sonata II case so YMMV. Suggest getting a brand name such as Antec, Enermax or OCZ in the 500+W range.

Graphics Card: Good card but you could get an X1950 Pro and save $60 for about 85-90% of the same performance. Another alternative is to get a XFX 7600 GT for about $165 and then later upgrade to a DX10 card when the prices undoubted drop to more reasonable levels.

Overclocking: For successful overclocking you will need an aftermarket HSF such as Sunbeam Tuniq Tower, Scythe Infinity or Thermaltake Big Typhoon and additional case fans (at least one input and one exhaust fan).

Another CAN store to look at is:
NCIX

Good luck with your build.


Thanks for all that.. Hm....
I'd Like to build it around $1500 MAXIMUM
and if possible i'd OC it until 2.5-7ghz range. Do I still need the aftermark HSF?

I did a couple of changes and made the gfx to a $524 8800GTS and dropped the memory to GOLD XTC 2gb 5-5-5-12 for $278.10 - $30 rebate

and came out with $1489.67

Now I need to find out a way to chop the case ($168) into a psu + case that holds GTS eeeekk...

oh and this rig is for ALL Gaming Vista Quiet Budget Overclocking and maybe even multitasking


do I really need raid? ( I actually DO want windows to load fast and things to run up quicker ... hmm)
November 25, 2006 7:57:32 PM

I think people have said the stock HSF will just bearly make it to 3.0ghz, so 2.5-2.7 should be reasonable.
November 25, 2006 8:34:05 PM

Okay! I've switched some things!


C2D E6300 $217.97

WD Caviar 160GB $72.05

Gigabyte GA-965P-S3 $145.22

Ocz Gold Xtc PC2-6400 2GB $278.10 - $30

Bfg Geforce 8800 Gts $524.30

Mushkin HP-550 550W ATX 12V 24PIN SLI $88.91
Much Better Right?

Antec Solo Quiet Mini Tower $91
Curious about this one, read a REVIEWhttp://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=937 here and thought it was good.

I need an alternative price case.:p 

CD-RW/DVD-RW/Flash Reader

ALL FOR $1504.65 - $30 rebate
November 25, 2006 8:39:22 PM

Budget System thread: Budget Overclock

According to that thread you do not need an extra HSF but you do need the following:
1) Low latency memory PC2-5400 4-4-4-12 (This is very important to get a good overclock). This memory might do the trick: Muskin XP PC2-5300
Or you could go with the more expensive Corsair as specified in the thread.

2) Lots of case fans (to keep everything cool but it won't be very quiet though)


Raid: For the ICH8R (South Bridge raid chip) you need to install the Intel Matrix Storage Raid driver (provides NCQ and AHCI support) when installing Win XP (Press F6 during OS install). This allows full SATA2 speeds otherwise it runs much slower. The S3 motherboard comes with the ICH8 chip (no raid).


Overclocking:
FSB (stock) = 266 MHz
E6300 multiplier = 7
CPU Speed = FSB * Multiplier

For 2.5GHz, the FSB must be 360 MHz.
For 2.7Ghz, the FSB must be 385 MHz.

For a FSB:mem ratio of 1:1 you need memory that can run at these FSB speeds. DDR2-667 (333MHz) memory should be able to run at these speeds provided it has at least a CL4 latency.

My friend's system is limited to a FSB of 375MHz (375*8=3.0GHz) but he has a HSF (Arctic Freezer Pro 7) and E6400. I think the 2x1GB OCZ memory at 5-5-5-15 or HSF is the limiting factor in his system.

For maximum overclocking you need to keep the CPU below the thermal limit of Tc=61.4C.
November 25, 2006 8:51:05 PM

Will your mobo support quad core?
November 25, 2006 10:44:23 PM

Yes the S3 will support quad core. Gigabyte GA-965P-S3

================

Memory: The OCX Gold XTC PC2-6400 2GB 5-5-5-15 should be fine as that is the same memory that my friend is using. At a FSB=375MHz, I believe he has memory settings of 4-4-4-12/15 at 2.0V.

New system specs are better...

Power Supply: Muskin is probably ok but I'd get this one instead for not a lot more: Enermax EG565P-VE
November 26, 2006 1:01:49 AM

Ah.. that ram isn't available..
Can't I OC my ram to 4-4-4-12? is tht pushing it too far away from warrenty?

and for the PSU. I think both Mushkin and Enermax are good with reasonable equal specs.. so i might as mwell take the 550w mushkin over 530w enermax and save 10bucks. :p 


OH AND BTW
its says the mobo actually DOES support RAID
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Product...
November 26, 2006 2:48:33 AM

Memory: Sorry about that, I realized that the Muskin wasn't available after I submitted the post.

You definitely can get 4-4-4-15 on the OCZ Gold XTC and most likely 4-4-4-12. It depends on your MB, BTW my friend's MB is an Asus P5B-E and he got 4-4-4-12 at FSB=375MHz stable using these ram.

Raid: Just remember to download the Intel Storage Matrix Manager as you need to install it when installing Windows. Go here to download it: Intel Storage Matrix Manager. You need this for NCQ and AHCI support for max performance when using SATA 2 drives.


Quote:
Install the Operating System on the RAID Volume Using the F6 Installation Method

Perform the following steps to install the Intel® Matrix Storage Manager driver during operating system setup:

1. Press the F6 key when prompted in the status line with the Press F6 if you need to install a third party SCSI or RAID driver message. This message appears at the beginning of Windows* XP setup (during text-mode phase).
Note: Nothing will happen immediately after pressing F6. Setup will temporarily continue loading drivers. You will then be prompted with a screen asking you to load support for mass storage device(s).
2. Press the S key to Specify Additional Device.
3. You will be prompted to Please insert the disk labeled Manufacturer-supplied hardware support disk into Drive A: When prompted, insert the floppy disk containing the following files: IAAHCI.INF, IAAHCI.CAT, IASTOR.INF, IASTOR.CAT, IASTOR.SYS, and TXTSETUP.OEM and press the Enter key.
4. After pressing Enter, you should be presented with a list of available SCSI Adapters. Select your controller from the list. The up and down arrow keys can be used to scroll through the list as all controllers may not be visible. The list may include:
* Intel® 6300ESB SATA RAID Controller
* Intel® 82801ER SATA RAID Controller
* Intel® 82801FR SATA RAID Controller
* Intel® 82801FR SATA AHCI Controller
* Intel® 82801FBM SATA AHCI Controller
* Intel® 82801GR/GH SATA RAID Controller
* Intel® 82801GR/GH SATA AHCI Controller
* Intel® 82801GBM SATA AHCI Controller
* Intel® 82801GHM SATA RAID Controller
* Intel® ESB2 SATA RAID Controller
* Intel® ESB2 SATA AHCI Controller
* Intel® 82801R/DO/DH SATA RAID Controller
* Intel® 82801R/DO/DH SATA AHCI Controller
5. The next screen should confirm your selected controller. Press the Enter key again to continue.
6. At this point, you have successfully F6'ed in the Intel® Matrix Storage Manager driver and Windows setup should continue. Leave the floppy disk in the floppy drive until the system reboots. Windows setup will need to copy the files from the floppy again to the Windows installation folders. Once Windows setup has copied these files again, you should then remove the floppy diskette so that Windows setup can reboot as needed.
7. During Windows setup, create a partition and file system on the RAID volume as you would on any physical disk.


Overclocking: Remember to update the BIOS to the latest version before starting. Now, the last thing you need to get a decent overclock is to ensure good ventilation by getting two front case fans, 92mm, $6.84 each.
Antec 92MM Tri-Cool Fans

However, if you are still unable to get the desired overclock then you will need to get an aftermarket HSF such as the ones that I recommended earlier.
November 26, 2006 4:02:53 AM

Quote:
With any X1900 you should be able to play at 1280x1024 in almost game including Oblivion so long as your other system components keep up ok. :-) If you average 30fps+ in games the game is playable. A lot of people play at 25fps or so and do fine, although to me that's fairly choppy.

Vista will run fine using an X1900 card, but you won't be able to play DX10 games without a DX10 card.


with that card you should be able to play ANY game at that low resolution with EVERYTHING cranked to max and be well over 100 frames.

Currently i play oblivion at 1920x1200 with everything cranked to max and get over 30fps

Any video card you get top of the line will play as far as i know any game easy at such low resolutions.

However if thats all you want to play in and still want a dx10 card i would find a way to wait for a mid rang dx10 card. I know you stated reasons for not wanting to wait but hell if there is a way to find out if you can buy some time i would defanitly try since youll pretty much be over paying for something you wont really use to its full potential.

Course if you dont care about that just get the dx10 card and know you could play any game now at any resolution and quality settings.
November 26, 2006 4:35:47 AM

Yeah, waiting a few months will be worth the wait if you can handle it. :-P
November 26, 2006 3:45:24 PM

Thanks alot for everything.

I did make my final dicision i think and still gonna go with a 8800gts because i MIGHT play oblivion in the future.

Now I just need a case recommendation on a ~$100 case
and I did pick a antec Solo case and Thought it was pretty decent.

Wil this hold my gfx card?
Any othe recommendations?

*** to chogo, out of all that raid list, which one do i have to pick?


Oh, and also Instead of getting that

160GB SD caviar SATA2 8MB HD
for $70

should I get a

2 x 80GB SD caviar SATA2 8MB HD
for $100 and raid it??
November 26, 2006 4:28:04 PM

Oh, and also Instead of getting that

160GB SD caviar SATA2 8MB HD
for $70

should I get a
2 x 80GB SD caviar SATA2 8MB HD
for $100 and raid it??
November 26, 2006 4:28:21 PM

Oh, and also Instead of getting that

160GB SD caviar SATA2 8MB HD
for $70

should I get a
2 x 80GB SD caviar SATA2 8MB HD
for $100 and raid it??
November 26, 2006 4:28:42 PM

Oh, and also Instead of getting that

160GB SD caviar SATA2 8MB HD
for $70

should I get a
2 x 80GB SD caviar SATA2 8MB HD
for $100 and raid it??
November 26, 2006 4:54:53 PM

Multiple posts? Delete some. :-P If you want speed, get a raptor or get two drives and use RAID-0. Raid is a bit tricky to set up if you're not familiar with it. You have to load raid drivers off a floppy when you install Windows, although maybe Vista is different and allows you to use a CD? Someone can clear me on that.

You should maybe try to get drives that have 16mb buffers instead of 8mb's. It can improve performance a bit and isn't much more. I like western digital drives because they're cheap and come with a decent warranty. They're pretty good drives. Although SeaGate is perhaps the highest quality around.

In truth, a single 7200rpm drive w/ 16mb buffer might do you fine if you want to go the cheap route. For the second choice in best value for the money with a performance increase you should get two and raid-0 them, although it's not as secure for your data should one fail. It's really up to you. Instead of letting that cash burn a hole in your pocket and letting it give you an itch to spend it, you might want to put it in the bank and take the time to do a good deal more research. There's no such thing as an over-educated consumer.
November 26, 2006 4:58:02 PM

As I believe the S3 board contains the ICH8R chip then you would select the first one from this list.

Quote:
Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI) is an interface specification that allows the storage driver to enable advanced Serial ATA features such as Native Command Queuing and hot plug.

Note: AHCI requires Intel® Matrix Storage Manager software and is built into chipsets with the following controller hubs:

* Intel® 82801HR/HH/HO I/O Controller Hub (ICH8R) - RAID and AHCI
* Intel® 631xESB/632xESB I/O Controller Hub - RAID and AHCI
* Intel® 82801GHM I/O Controller Hub (ICH7MDH) - RAID only
* Intel® 82801GBM I/O Controller Hub (ICH7M) - AHCI only
* Intel® 82801GR I/O Controller Hub (ICH7R) - RAID and AHCI
* Intel® 82801GH I/O Controller Hub (ICH7DH) - RAID and AHCI
* Intel® 82801FR I/O Controller Hub (ICH6R) - RAID and AHCI
* Intel® 82801FBM I/O Controller Hub (ICH6M) - AHCI only

ICH8, ICH7 and ICH6-based chipsets, as well as ICH5 and ICH5R-based chipsets, do not use AHCI.


Raid: To raid or not to raid? Raid 0 gives better performance but the loss of all data if one drive fails => not recommended. Raid 1 stripes the data across 2 drives so that if 1 fails then you can replace it and still have all your data (think of it as auto backup) but you only have the total capacity of 1 disk (80GB). Personally, I wouldn't go raid. You only need the Storage Matrix Raid driver to take full advantage of the SATA2 interface (NCQ, AHCI for max disk performance) so ignore the raid part and think of it as just giving you SATA2 support.
November 26, 2006 5:42:50 PM

Oh im sorry about the multiple posts, i cant delete them

K i'm finally done picking the parts thanks to all of you.

:D 

Ive decided to go with the GTS and the XTC gold :) 
!