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Is pc gaming dying?

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November 26, 2006 10:07:09 PM

I was browsing news articles online and saw one about pc gaming and how it has been seeing a steady decline since 1999. I know that the next gen consoles are out and they do kick ass, I would like to know why pc gaming is dying. I know it is expensive, but what I don't understand is why does the pc have to be so powerful to run the same game my xbox 360 can play flawlessly? The resolution might me one thing, but that can not all be it. I love pc gaming, always have, also it seems like lately the technology for computers has been changing more rapidly than ever. Will we see it steady out when vista is out?

More about : gaming dying

November 26, 2006 10:22:00 PM

Yea the torrents/piracy do have a huge impact on it. When do you think dual core support will be full blown? I do know that some of the best game sare on the pc eg: half life 2, and FEAR is better on pc that say the xbox.
November 26, 2006 10:33:12 PM

Personally, I would rather play my games that are available for console and PC on my PC. Except sports games and games that are only available for consoles, PC gaming is just better for me. I used to like console gaming until I got a good enough PC to appreciate the games more. I sure hope PC gaming isn't dying, I like building PCs more than building consoles :p 
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November 26, 2006 10:37:11 PM

theres a genre with over 15 million people in it that can only really be done with PC gaming, thats MMORPGS. A current gen console could probably run World of Warcraft, but due to the vast amounts of memory an MMORPG needs, something like EQ2 and Vanguard would not run satisfactory (i.e. more than 20FPS)

That and the fact that PC gaming not only is better than consoles, control wise, graphics wise, but they have a community that really isn't available on the console, the modding community. That and the fact that PC's can accomplish more than one task, video editing, email, photo editing, have the ability to burn media and other things like that. I don't see PC gaming dying, but rather evolving. Theres still plenty of games out there that you can enjoy without having the latest and greatest DX10 gfx card, Core 2 duo system with 2 gigs of DDR2 memory. As a matter of fact you can play a good majority of the newer games out there on a 6600GT AMD 3000+ system, and for a little more upgrade to a 7900 system which plays almost eveyr pc game out there flawlessly besides Oblivion.
November 26, 2006 10:41:26 PM

FPS, MMORPGs and RTS games only really shine on PC... Age Of Conan, Crysis, Supreme Commander, and C&C Tiberium Wars being a taste of what PC gaming will get with DX10, and much more. PC gaming may decline, but it won't die. Sure, Developers may have to produce games which can support a wide variety of machines each with varying performance abilities, but at least they don't get screwed by extortionate licensing fees when making games for the PC. Consoles will play a bigger part nowadays, but the PC will fill its niche and will do just fine, because come on! DX10 and Vista! Should make things better for PC in terms of a platform.
November 26, 2006 10:41:38 PM

I remember an article at gamespot... ah here it is

Quote:
NPD paints mixed picture of PC gaming in 2005 @ gamespot"]How can PC gaming be going down in flames when World of Warcraft is topping five million players by itself? The short answer: it isn't. NPD's numbers are based on the number of boxed retail PC games sold. It doesn't cover games sold via digital download or the subscription fees that massively mutliplayer online role-playing game users pay each month. It also doesn't address the numerous smaller units of content--both free and paid--with which publishers like Blizzard Entertainment and Sony Online Entertainment update their MMORPGs regularly.

By NPD's own account, it will be changing how it defines PC gaming revenue in 2006. "While we have seen retail sales of PC games decrease for several years now, we know from talking to consumers about their online gaming behaviors that playing games on the PC, whether it's via online casual sites or through MMO subscription play, has been increasing," said NPD analyst Anita Frazier in a statement. "As a result, NPD will be launching its new definition of the US PC game market this spring, which will include a combination of sales from retail, downloads, and both casual and MMO subscription revenues. We expect this will add significant dollars to the PC game market size."
[/url]

The Moore's law effect is much higher in PC hardware - my favorite quote:

Quote:
NVIDIA's GeForce 8800 (G80) review @ anandtech"] Back when Sony announced the specifications of the PlayStation 3, everyone asked if it meant the end of PC gaming. After all Cell looked very strong and NVIDIA's RSX GPU had tremendous power. We asked NVIDIA how long it would take until we saw a GPU faster than the RSX. Their answer: by the time the PS3 ships. So congratulations to NVIDIA for making the PS3 obsolete before it ever shipped
[/url]
November 26, 2006 10:52:01 PM

The Moore's law effect is much higher in PC hardware - my favorite quote:

Quote:
NVIDIA's GeForce 8800 (G80) review @ anandtech"] Back when Sony announced the specifications of the PlayStation 3, everyone asked if it meant the end of PC gaming. After all Cell looked very strong and NVIDIA's RSX GPU had tremendous power. We asked NVIDIA how long it would take until we saw a GPU faster than the RSX. Their answer: by the time the PS3 ships. So congratulations to NVIDIA for making the PS3 obsolete before it ever shipped
[/url][/quote]

LOL!! I love my PC and will always keep upgrading it and such. Some people just do not realize the tremendous power a pc really has. I cant wait for the ATI's DX10 cards, got sick of nvidia, and yes the mmorpg community is huge and i like it. I do play wow and it is fun and addicting. My question is why does it take so much power to run a game on a pc vs. a console on a 42 inch screen vs the computers 19 inch screen?
November 26, 2006 10:52:39 PM

listen, im a pc gamer, and by that, i mean i play video games on my pc. i dont care what else it can run that a 360 or ps3 cannot..im talkinga bout gaming...and just because im a pc gamer doesnt mean i cant say when pc's have been defeated by consols. Pc gaming is defenetly, as of now, NOT better in any way than consols. the graphics are flat out flawless and they run perfectly smooth at all times. and everytime i say that i always get the same over excited respsonse from geeky pc gamers " BUT BUT BUT IT CAN DO OTHER THINGS TOO!" i dont care what other things the pc can do, we are talking about gaming, nothing more, and for gaming, pc has defenetly gone down hill...from delay in games up to and over a years worth of waiting, over expensive hardware (650 bucks for a video card?!?! 1500 bucks for a quad core processor!?!) new technology or not, thats way over priced considering that this will drop in price over months. iv been a pc gamer, for 5+ years now, and before these new consols came out, i swore by the graphics, the playability in games, and controls of the pc...personally, the only reason im staying with my pc for now, is because of the simple fact that i have a keyboard and mouse for my controls, nothings better..."BUT BUT BUT YOU CAN TURN UP THE RESOLUTION ON YOUR CUNTPUTER MONITOR TO 1900x1200" ...you know what, i dont care, i dont visually see a difference between 1024, 1280, or 1600x1200..let alone going up that high. gmaes like fear and counter strike is what kept me a pc gamer for right now, but , hey what do you know, fear is out for the 360, so are alot of other games. "BUT BUT YOU NEED A HIGH DEF LCD 2000 DOLLAR TV TO PLAY THEM ON"..ehem, if youv forgotten, i can easily hook a 360 up to my monitor, but i wont, cuz again, keyboard and mouse is the best. theres prolly only a few games in 2007 im looking forward to, half or most are coming out for the consols that cost as much as a single video card. (assassins creed, bioshock, stalker, ut2007, brothers in arms HH and a few others i might have forgotten) but all and all, Pc gaming is just becoming too expensive, enough is enough with these insanely high prices, all the hype about how powerful the new video card is to make it sound like its worth the 650 bucks. dont forget about buying a high end processor, esxpensive sticks of ram to go with your video card. So , i most defenetly think pc gaming is dying...when prices go down on these new video cards it will start all over again. now once again, i AM a pc gamer and i dont own any consols, im not taking sides, but, not using scientific garble, or nerdy hardware specs of the consols versus pc specs...i can simply say this...iv seen how good games look on the 360 and how good they run, and it just looks flat out amazing "BUT BUT BUT THE PCS VIDEO CARD DOES 9823432 GIGAFLOPS OF INFORMATION A MICROSECOND! SO IT HAS TO BE BETTER" ....that doesnt tell me shit, iv seen with my own 2 eyes, teh graphics power of these consols, and pc's , as of now, have lost the battle...crysis was the only game that looked like it could graphically annihilate the consols..but guess what, to no surprise, it got pushed back till september!!!!! :evil: 
November 26, 2006 11:17:14 PM

Quote:
My question is why does it take so much power to run a game on a pc vs. a console on a 42 inch screen vs the computers 19 inch screen?

Not sure what you're asking... I know my PC will run higher frames connected to a 42" hdtv running 720p (1280x720) than running 1600x1200 on a 19" LCD monitor. I am not even sure if you can connect a plain old LCD monitor to a console, so I am probably the wrong person to ask...
November 26, 2006 11:19:50 PM

Quote:
listen, im a pc gamer, and by that, i mean i play video games on my pc. i dont care what else it can run that a 360 or ps3 cannot..im talkinga bout gaming...and just because im a pc gamer doesnt mean i cant say when pc's have been defeated by consols. Pc gaming is defenetly, as of now, NOT better in any way than consols. the graphics are flat out flawless and they run perfectly smooth at all times. and everytime i say that i always get the same over excited respsonse from geeky pc gamers " BUT BUT BUT IT CAN DO OTHER THINGS TOO!" i dont care what other things the pc can do, we are talking about gaming, nothing more, and for gaming, pc has defenetly gone down hill...from delay in games up to and over a years worth of waiting, over expensive hardware (650 bucks for a video card?!?! 1500 bucks for a quad core processor!?!) new technology or not, thats way over priced considering that this will drop in price over months. iv been a pc gamer, for 5+ years now, and before these new consols came out, i swore by the graphics, the playability in games, and controls of the pc...personally, the only reason im staying with my pc for now, is because of the simple fact that i have a keyboard and mouse for my controls, nothings better..."BUT BUT BUT YOU CAN TURN UP THE RESOLUTION ON YOUR CUNTPUTER MONITOR TO 1900x1200" ...you know what, i dont care, i dont visually see a difference between 1024, 1280, or 1600x1200..let alone going up that high. gmaes like fear and counter strike is what kept me a pc gamer for right now, but , hey what do you know, fear is out for the 360, so are alot of other games. "BUT BUT YOU NEED A HIGH DEF LCD 2000 DOLLAR TV TO PLAY THEM ON"..ehem, if youv forgotten, i can easily hook a 360 up to my monitor, but i wont, cuz again, keyboard and mouse is the best. theres prolly only a few games in 2007 im looking forward to, half or most are coming out for the consols that cost as much as a single video card. (assassins creed, bioshock, stalker, ut2007, brothers in arms HH and a few others i might have forgotten) but all and all, Pc gaming is just becoming too expensive, enough is enough with these insanely high prices, all the hype about how powerful the new video card is to make it sound like its worth the 650 bucks. dont forget about buying a high end processor, esxpensive sticks of ram to go with your video card. So , i most defenetly think pc gaming is dying...when prices go down on these new video cards it will start all over again. now once again, i AM a pc gamer and i dont own any consols, im not taking sides, but, not using scientific garble, or nerdy hardware specs of the consols versus pc specs...i can simply say this...iv seen how good games look on the 360 and how good they run, and it just looks flat out amazing "BUT BUT BUT THE PCS VIDEO CARD DOES 9823432 GIGAFLOPS OF INFORMATION A MICROSECOND! SO IT HAS TO BE BETTER" ....that doesnt tell me ****, iv seen with my own 2 eyes, teh graphics power of these consols, and pc's , as of now, have lost the battle...crysis was the only game that looked like it could graphically annihilate the consols..but guess what, to no surprise, it got pushed back till september!!!!! :evil: 


LOL That was the answer i was looking for!!! I feel the same exact way. I do like pc gaming, but when it comes down to holding a 600$ graphics card in one hand vs. ps3 in another you guess which one ill get. Personally i do think it is a tad expensive and don't tell me "pay to play" crap!!! WHY DO PC"S GAMES NEED SO MUCH POWER??
November 26, 2006 11:40:16 PM

obviously your have a crappy setup.. if you cant see the difference between 1024X768 and 1600X1200.. either that.. or you need better glasses.. lol


Im not going to take part in this argument though.. just thought i'd comment on that.. I will say that Consoles have a long way to go before they can compete with a high end PC.
November 26, 2006 11:43:17 PM

Quote:
obviously your have a crappy setup.. if you cant see the difference between 1024X768 and 1600X1200.. either that.. or you need better glasses.. lol


Im not going to take part in this argument though.. just thought i'd comment on that.. I will say that Consoles have a long way to go before they can compete with a high end PC.


i have plenty good set up, i see no difference, im sure there is, i cant see it, not enough to make me wanna buy 55384537 dollars worth of new hardware to go up to retarded high resolutions. simply put 7900gtx fx55 2 gigs of ram. over clocked.and i think you mean, high end pcs have a long way to catch up to the cheaper, more powerful, better games..consols.
November 26, 2006 11:45:38 PM

FPS will always be better on PC. Also, torrents etc. crack PC games pretty easily, so that is a contributing factor. To my knowledge you can't torrent a free console game. Sports and racing games are probably better on console imo, but FPS is always going to be dominant on PC.
November 26, 2006 11:47:30 PM

Console games are carefully tweaked to maximize performance and image quality. Seeing as Windows is such a broad platform, it's harder for a developer to optimize any title to any specific piece of hardware as they would be limiting the enjoyment of some other users.
November 26, 2006 11:51:52 PM

Yes they are better, but 2nd up would be the 360 controller. I also heard that the performance of source games are going to be better when the release the dual core update.
November 26, 2006 11:52:39 PM

obiously the display is the culprit.. or your eyes. 10X7 to 16X12 is pretty much night and day difference.
November 26, 2006 11:57:07 PM

Quote:
obiously the display is the culprit.. or your eyes. 10X7 to 16X12 is pretty much night and day difference.



I play at 1280x1024 and see no need for higher. Wide screen is different tho
November 27, 2006 12:01:41 AM

Anyways.. back on topic, i hope this answers your question about PC Gaming dying.. It's sunday night.. Probably a Slower evening for gaming in general.. at this moment there are over 260,000 Gamers online, 55,000 in Half life 2 alone.

There are a couple of PS2 games included.. but they are a very small percentage of the list.

Check it on a saturday night.. the numbers are quite a bit higher.

Gamespy live stats
November 27, 2006 12:05:19 AM

You mean 1280X800?

Yeah, WS is a little different.. it basicly comes down to screen size, 1280X1024 will look just as good on a 17" as 1600X1200 does on My 20"
November 27, 2006 12:09:40 AM

No i play at 1280 by 1024 on my standard 19inch, I was just saying in general that wide screen is a little different overall. For wide screen i would like the best resolution i could get.
November 27, 2006 12:19:21 AM

Consoles have two advantages: standardized specs and sales at a loss.

A console game is written to use only what the console can use. If a game is under performing they just shut off a some features. On a PC it is left up to the user to be smart enough to do the same.

A year after the release of the 360 ms still sells the unit at a loss. The money comes from games. GPU developers don't get to do that. As far as cost a lower end card will handle it just fine and in a year for half the cost you will have even better performance.

On the res issue I read that both ps3 and xbox 360 use some form of pixel doubling to get to the hd output. On a computer if you if you set a game to use 1080p output it gives the full res. You also run into the problem of a 19" monitor having more pixels then your hd tv.
November 27, 2006 12:23:22 AM

Quote:

On the res issue I read that both ps3 and xbox 360 use some form of pixel doubling to get to the hd output. On a computer if you if you set a game to use 1080p output it gives the full res. You also run into the problem of a 19" monitor having more pixels then your hd tv.


True... But whats the deal with a 24 in monitor being cheaper than a 24inch hdtv??
November 27, 2006 12:29:39 AM

Quote:

On the res issue I read that both ps3 and xbox 360 use some form of pixel doubling to get to the hd output. On a computer if you if you set a game to use 1080p output it gives the full res. You also run into the problem of a 19" monitor having more pixels then your hd tv.


True... But whats the deal with a 24 in monitor being cheaper than a 24inch hdtv??

Well there is the tv tuner and speakers, but from a pure display side the the computer monitor is far better.

My guess is that a HD tv is still considered a high end item.

You could also ask why does a 42" LCD cost more then the 42" plasma when LCDs are much cheaper to manufacture? It is just market forces.
November 27, 2006 12:39:21 AM

Quote:
listen, im a pc gamer, and by that, i mean i play video games on my pc. i dont care what else it can run that a 360 or ps3 cannot..im talkinga bout gaming...and just because im a pc gamer doesnt mean i cant say when pc's have been defeated by consols. Pc gaming is defenetly, as of now, NOT better in any way than consols. the graphics are flat out flawless and they run perfectly smooth at all times. and everytime i say that i always get the same over excited respsonse from geeky pc gamers " BUT BUT BUT IT CAN DO OTHER THINGS TOO!" i dont care what other things the pc can do, we are talking about gaming, nothing more, and for gaming, pc has defenetly gone down hill...from delay in games up to and over a years worth of waiting, over expensive hardware (650 bucks for a video card?!?! 1500 bucks for a quad core processor!?!) new technology or not, thats way over priced considering that this will drop in price over months. iv been a pc gamer, for 5+ years now, and before these new consols came out, i swore by the graphics, the playability in games, and controls of the pc...personally, the only reason im staying with my pc for now, is because of the simple fact that i have a keyboard and mouse for my controls, nothings better..."BUT BUT BUT YOU CAN TURN UP THE RESOLUTION ON YOUR CUNTPUTER MONITOR TO 1900x1200" ...you know what, i dont care, i dont visually see a difference between 1024, 1280, or 1600x1200..let alone going up that high. gmaes like fear and counter strike is what kept me a pc gamer for right now, but , hey what do you know, fear is out for the 360, so are alot of other games. "BUT BUT YOU NEED A HIGH DEF LCD 2000 DOLLAR TV TO PLAY THEM ON"..ehem, if youv forgotten, i can easily hook a 360 up to my monitor, but i wont, cuz again, keyboard and mouse is the best. theres prolly only a few games in 2007 im looking forward to, half or most are coming out for the consols that cost as much as a single video card. (assassins creed, bioshock, stalker, ut2007, brothers in arms HH and a few others i might have forgotten) but all and all, Pc gaming is just becoming too expensive, enough is enough with these insanely high prices, all the hype about how powerful the new video card is to make it sound like its worth the 650 bucks. dont forget about buying a high end processor, esxpensive sticks of ram to go with your video card. So , i most defenetly think pc gaming is dying...when prices go down on these new video cards it will start all over again. now once again, i AM a pc gamer and i dont own any consols, im not taking sides, but, not using scientific garble, or nerdy hardware specs of the consols versus pc specs...i can simply say this...iv seen how good games look on the 360 and how good they run, and it just looks flat out amazing "BUT BUT BUT THE PCS VIDEO CARD DOES 9823432 GIGAFLOPS OF INFORMATION A MICROSECOND! SO IT HAS TO BE BETTER" ....that doesnt tell me ****, iv seen with my own 2 eyes, teh graphics power of these consols, and pc's , as of now, have lost the battle...crysis was the only game that looked like it could graphically annihilate the consols..but guess what, to no surprise, it got pushed back till september!!!!!


Flawless and perfectly smooth? WTF games are you playing. I've seen some incredibly crappy looking next-gen games, especially those designed for PC. LOTR battle for middle earth 2 on 360 looks like a friggin PS1 game. Sure a game like Ping-Pong looks incredible but give any real depth and the graphics either suck or the games tend to lag. For example Madden 07, the game looks incredible inbetween plays when there's nothing else going on, but as soon as you start to play again the game lags. I cant count how many times I've selected the wrong play because of the game stuttering while I'm picking a play. And as far as money goes, these next-gen systems look no better then there predecessors unless you have a high-def TV which cost a lot more then a decent monitor.
November 27, 2006 12:47:06 AM

In general, PC gaming will always be the "showpiece" of technology. It may not have the quantity of games (by far!), but in GENERAL the quality is much better.

I've been a computer gamer since the days of Commander Keen. There was a period in the mid to late 90's where it peaked. Since then, I've noticed a steady decline in the amount of games. Lately, the handful of games for the PC have been nothing short of blockbusters (Oblivion, FEAR, Prey, HL2, etc...), no doubt about that. But now they're trickling down to the new consoles. Not only that, but the current-gen PC games that are being ported to consoles have more content than their PC counterparts (FEAR for example).

Do they look as good as on a PC? Not even a little bit. 1080p or not, my 19" monitor from 1998 can still go up to 1600x1200. But, look at what's required to play that game: at most, a $600 console and a $2000 1080p monitor.

Honestly, if I had the ability to GUARANTEE my computer wouldn't be obsolete for ~5 years, I'd plop down $2,500 on it. But look at what most of us do within a 5-year period; we upgrade constantly. $300 here, $100 there, it all adds up, usually above $2,500.

But that's not the point of PC gaming. PC gaming isn't about the money; it's about the satisfaction of knowing that you can surf the 'net, play nearly every video game conceived since the beginning of games (emulators!), store your life on it's gigantic hard drives, watch some movies and burn some music to listen to in your car. For me, games or not, it's fun! And for all the console fanatics out there, remember this: PC's still set the benchmark. Just like AMD and Intel, it's a race to the boundless end of technology.

Consoles are (the majority of the time) faster at playing games for many reasons. They have very closely engineered CPUs, GPUs, RAM, and data buses to make it all work. A game console is not (yet?) a general purpose machine. They don't have standardized components, they don't have (much) expandability; their ONLY purpose is PLAYING GAMES. Another way to think about it:

The expensive video cards we all own. They're miraculous pieces of engineering. Even a meager Geforce4 4200Ti is substantially faster than ANY modern CPU at floating-point, parallel tasks. But that's because video cards are not LIMITED BY ARCHITECTURE. Our computers, to this day, are still limited by x86 (or x64). It's a constant balancing act; floating-point VS. integer. Constrained by PCI-E, PCI, you name it.

Consoles eliminate these problems. Since they don't do much integer operations, they usually have a dedicated integer CPU and a much faster parallel floating-point CPU. Then, since there is no defined transfer protocol, they can link them together however they want to. No limiting PCI-Express, no bottlenecked HT Bus, none of that. They can run all 512 I/O's directly to one another, have dedicated ram per unit, and purpose-build a matrix pushing/popping machine.

Which one is better? It just depends on what you do, what you like, and what you want. Personally, instead of arguing that one is better, I just buy whichever console has the best games (quality-wise), and upgrade my PC so I can see the future of consoles.
November 27, 2006 12:50:29 AM

If you truly believe that the next gen consoles are better technologically than high end computers, then you have no idea how the architecture of their components work. The quick an easy comparison, many game developers have said they would have been much happier with a 2.0ghz A64 or Pentium 4 because they would be able to get better performance out of the CPU's. The reason for games running better on less hardware for consoles is because the games are made specifically for the fixed hardware in those consoles and the consoles do not have as much proprietary software to run in the background of the games, hence requiring less memory. When game developers make a game for consoles they test FPS rates when making the games on the exact hardware. When they make a game for PC's they make it to where the games will run better on newer hardware, if not hardware that isn't out yet, so is to prolong the lifespan of that specific game on PC hardware. Overall, PC > Console and is not dying what so ever! My computer runs CoD 2 at full res (1280x1024) and all high settings much better than a Xbox 360, which if you have an eye for it can tell that is suffers a lot of frame loss during gameplay.

Best,

3Ball
November 27, 2006 12:53:57 AM

Quote:
listen, im a pc gamer, and by that, i mean i play video games on my pc. i dont care what else it can run that a 360 or ps3 cannot..im talkinga bout gaming...and just because im a pc gamer doesnt mean i cant say when pc's have been defeated by consols. Pc gaming is defenetly, as of now, NOT better in any way than consols. the graphics are flat out flawless and they run perfectly smooth at all times. and everytime i say that i always get the same over excited respsonse from geeky pc gamers " BUT BUT BUT IT CAN DO OTHER THINGS TOO!" i dont care what other things the pc can do, we are talking about gaming, nothing more, and for gaming, pc has defenetly gone down hill...from delay in games up to and over a years worth of waiting, over expensive hardware (650 bucks for a video card?!?! 1500 bucks for a quad core processor!?!) new technology or not, thats way over priced considering that this will drop in price over months. iv been a pc gamer, for 5+ years now, and before these new consols came out, i swore by the graphics, the playability in games, and controls of the pc...personally, the only reason im staying with my pc for now, is because of the simple fact that i have a keyboard and mouse for my controls, nothings better..."BUT BUT BUT YOU CAN TURN UP THE RESOLUTION ON YOUR CUNTPUTER MONITOR TO 1900x1200" ...you know what, i dont care, i dont visually see a difference between 1024, 1280, or 1600x1200..let alone going up that high. gmaes like fear and counter strike is what kept me a pc gamer for right now, but , hey what do you know, fear is out for the 360, so are alot of other games. "BUT BUT YOU NEED A HIGH DEF LCD 2000 DOLLAR TV TO PLAY THEM ON"..ehem, if youv forgotten, i can easily hook a 360 up to my monitor, but i wont, cuz again, keyboard and mouse is the best. theres prolly only a few games in 2007 im looking forward to, half or most are coming out for the consols that cost as much as a single video card. (assassins creed, bioshock, stalker, ut2007, brothers in arms HH and a few others i might have forgotten) but all and all, Pc gaming is just becoming too expensive, enough is enough with these insanely high prices, all the hype about how powerful the new video card is to make it sound like its worth the 650 bucks. dont forget about buying a high end processor, esxpensive sticks of ram to go with your video card. So , i most defenetly think pc gaming is dying...when prices go down on these new video cards it will start all over again. now once again, i AM a pc gamer and i dont own any consols, im not taking sides, but, not using scientific garble, or nerdy hardware specs of the consols versus pc specs...i can simply say this...iv seen how good games look on the 360 and how good they run, and it just looks flat out amazing "BUT BUT BUT THE PCS VIDEO CARD DOES 9823432 GIGAFLOPS OF INFORMATION A MICROSECOND! SO IT HAS TO BE BETTER" ....that doesnt tell me ****, iv seen with my own 2 eyes, teh graphics power of these consols, and pc's , as of now, have lost the battle...crysis was the only game that looked like it could graphically annihilate the consols..but guess what, to no surprise, it got pushed back till september!!!!! :evil: 



LOL!!!!!!! no wait......hahahahah, hahahahahahahahaha. Whats so funny? The only online multi-player listed was CS. Dude play BF2 and tell me your Wii or xbox has games that play like that. Ever played unreal tourny on a PS2, it suxord.

Few questions for you.
Can people with a ps3 and x360 play together?
Are games now devolped on a PS3?
Will future computers be based on what Sony or microsoft are selling?
What happens when the PS4 comes out? Will a PS3 and PS4 be compatible?

The PROBLEM with consloes is planned obsolecence. Not upgradeable.

I would think that both consloe's ond pc's will continue to advance and niether is going anywhere anytime soon. Sure consloe games look better now, why wouldnt they? They have pc gamin rigs doing there homework for em.

Yes I do have a consloe for my kids. Yes I will buy them a Wii.
Consloe are great for 3rd person games, sport, driving.
NOT FPS.

Let me finish with hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha!
November 27, 2006 1:26:19 AM

PC Gaming will always be around.Even though the technology is changing almost daily for the PC,there really is nothing like a good gaming PC to brighten up your day.I do understand about the consoles,and to be honest,until a few years ago,that was all I played on.But since I've found the PC gaming world,I'll never go back to the console.Goodluck.

Dahak

AMD X2-4400+@2.4 S-939
EVGA NF4 SLI MB
2X EVGA 7800GT IN SLI
2X1GIG DDR IN DC MODE
WD300GIG HD
EXTREME 19IN.MONITOR 1280X1024
ACE 520WATT PSU
COOLERMASTER MINI R120
November 27, 2006 1:53:16 AM

PC gaming will never die, there are slower periods because as time goes on games get more and more sophisticated to give us the wow factor so we'll shell out $50 for a title.

PC games are much more competitive because you don't have the licensing fees that must be paid to a console maker.

As to why the games look good on the consoles... they have an exact set of specs as to what the machine can do. Deveopers of PC games don't have this ability so they list minimum requirements on the package.

There are tradeoffs in PC gaming. If you don't have a fast rig most of the time you can "get by" with a slower rig. I never spent more than about $200 on a video card, they drop in price all the time...same for CPU if you're always buying the fastest of everything just to crank out a few more FPS that you'll never notice otherwise... who cares?

Lets take video for example... 29.97 FPS [NTSC] Do you really need to have video frame rates triple this figure? Even at double this figure the motion is pretty fluid. Most video cards can sustain frame rates in the upper 80/90 fps depending on the resolution you choose and the game you're playing.

So it's not that the high end cards are $600 but what other cards fall into a liveable workable realm to still play the game at a decent frame rate.

If you have a decent monitor and good sound system I guarantee you could be so ever submerged in a good PC title then as time goes on you can get the $600 card for peanuts as the newer cards come out.

While the consoles look very tempting, the price you pay for the games tend to be on the higher side for longer and once the console is updated with a new console the old one becomes a paper weight, where as an old PC can be rebuilt and reused. The only way I'd buy a console would be to free up the PC for other stuff... or I'd just build another PC. :lol: 
November 27, 2006 2:52:55 AM

PC gaming will never die but here are my reasons for buying a Xbox 360 console this holiday season over building a gaming PC:

1. COST

The Xbox 360 console costs about $400 dollars versus at least $1500 dollars for a gaming PC. No upgrade costs with a console. Yes, yes, I can hear the PC gamers now, “That’s not true because you need to buy a $2500 dollar HDTV for HD gaming with the Xbox 360!” No, you don’t because Microsoft has a $40 dollar VGA cable that allows you to attach your Xbox 360 to a computer monitor.

2. GAMES

Nearly all of the games I wanted to play on my gaming PC are now on the Xbox 360. HL2, COD2, Doom 3, FEAR, PREY, Oblivion, GTA3, Quake 4, they are all there. The only game missing is UT2004 but I can wait for UT2007 on the Xbox 360. Moreover, now I can play Xbox exclusives like Halo 1, 2 and 3 and of course, Gears of War! If God of War 2 is ported to the Xbox 360, it’s a full house for me.

3. ONLINE COMPETITION

Xbox Live, need I say more? Although I haven’t experienced it yet I have yet to see a less than glowing report about Xbox Live. By all accounts it looks like the online Xbox experience will be significantly better than the online PC gaming experience. But do you know what the kicker is for me? The standardized hardware and software ensures to a high degree that I am on a level-playing field with my competition in a game. I agree that the keyboard and mouse is a better control system than a console controller but that is immaterial on Xbox Live.

I also have another personal reason for buying a Xbox 360 over a desktop PC. I NEED a new portable computer for work. I WANT to game. The Xbox 360 allows me to buy a lighter, smaller and CHEAPER portable notebook computer for work. This negates the PC gamers argument about how a desktop PC can do more than a Xbox 360 because a Xbox 360 plus a notebook computer can do everything a desktop PC can do AND MORE FOR CHEAPER!
November 27, 2006 3:08:53 AM

Well sense this argument will never come to an end I will just stick to what I have and leave the topic alone, which is an Xbox 360, The gaming PC that you see in the sig, which will be receiving an upgrade soon if not a complete re-build, a laptop for school, work, and occasional on the go gaming that is equipped with an X1600 mobility, 1.83ghz Core 2 Duo, 1.5gb of ram, and a 120gb hard drive with windows xp pro and is in a slim 15.4" design. I get the best of everything so I am happy, and for everyone else; in life it is best to always remember that NO MATTER WHAT, you always get what you pay for and nothing more!

Best,

3Ball
November 27, 2006 4:05:41 AM

woa, long time no post for me..

Anyways, I don't see PC Gaming dying at all, really. Sure the hoopla is centered around the new consoles, but PC games and technology will always be a step above them. Plus, there is something about upgrading my computer every so often to better it that provides some sense of pride that no $600 Playsation 3 buyer can achieve.
November 27, 2006 4:16:29 AM

So in other words you have no cognizant argument to make and will gladly spend significantly more money for overlapping technology? Ok, nothing wrong with that. To each his own.
November 27, 2006 5:37:44 AM

Perfect example for you guys...

Get Madden 07 for PS toss it in you brand new PS3.. and get 07 for your PC... fire them up.. and you will see that PC's will shatter and decimate any PS3 game hands down.
November 27, 2006 5:43:15 AM

Why *isn't* PC gaming dying? The cost/performance can't keep up with the consoles at all. I see many of my friends going to console because of low cost and the only reason I don't switch is because I enjoy building PCs and spend more time tweaking than gaming.

I don't see why people who buy prebuilt systems (majority of PC users) would have any reason to buy a gaming PC when they can get a cheap work PC and a console for half of the cost.

Is mouse+keyboard and MMO that only thing supporting PC gaming now? High res? oh please - must pay $1K+ more just to go up to 1600x1200? What percentage of the people would do that?
November 27, 2006 7:06:28 AM

Which is better the PC or the console? I personally think that they are complementary. I used to be a pure Pc gamer (console sucks). But now, with the new console generations and having a HDTV, I decided to buy a XBOX 360, to use it for convivial gaming and as a media extender (to play my MP3 and movies in my sitting room).

And after trying different games on the console.... I have to say that nothing beats a console when it comes to convivial playing. Have some friends come at home, have everybody get comfortable, take out the beers and then launch a FIFA or DOA. It will be much more fun, than being in front of your pc screen in the usually clumsy PC room.

However, I will never let down my PC for a console, especially when a combination mouse and keyboard is required fro playing. Come on, try to play Call of duty or BF2 on a console, it is no where as fun as on a PC.

So, I think Pc gaming is never going to die, it is just a different market than console gaming.
November 27, 2006 8:55:24 AM

why not ask "why do you have to install a PC game?!? I wanna play it now!!!"
anyway its cause Consoles are made just as game machines and PCs are not. you only have to contend with 1 setup not serveral thousand.
and besides they are 2 completely different markets. think of it this way, when playing a console how close do you sit to your TV? and when playing a PC game how close? the PC is made for less then 2 feet away, whereas a console is made for your living room.
also, dont forget that just like consoles we have *nex gen" releases, the last of course (in terms of graphics) being DirectX9 2 odd years ago. and dual core processors, and 64bit computing(though i doubt that this will be taken advantage of until vista really comes out). and the Nextgen being Dx10. if you look at what it offer you really wouldnt say that its gonna die
or anything like that since Dx10 allows for more or less bypassing windows/vista and allowing all the Hardware to run without windows interference
November 27, 2006 9:01:10 AM

I think PC gaming and console gaming are quite equal in terms of costs. Let's say that you have a 1000$ TV and a 1000$ desktop PC. If you want to play games, you could spend the 400$ either on a console or on a better video card and some other key components for the PC. In 4-5 years both the console and the PC components will become outdated. At that point you could get either a new console or mid-end modern motherboard, CPU, RAM and graphics card for 400-500$. As an example, today I could get an Xbox 360 for ~400$, but for the same price I could upgrade my Athlon XP 2400+/1Gb DDR/Radeon 9700 to Athlon 64 3800/1Gb DDR2/Radeon 1950 Pro and get a very similar performance/quality ratio playing Oblivion and other modern games as with the Xbox 360.
November 27, 2006 9:53:22 AM

Quote:
pc has defenetly gone down hill...from delay in games up to and over a years worth of waiting
Oh rly? CS:Source, World of warcraft, Oblivion, Medievil 2 Total War.. and your comparing this to what; a console that you'll have to pay a $2000 for on ebay?

Quote:
i dont care, i dont visually see a difference between 1024, 1280, or 1600x1200..let alone going up that high
You, sir, are either blind or using a very rubbish monitor.

Quote:
iv seen how good games look on the 360 and how good they run, and it just looks flat out amazing "BUT BUT BUT THE PCS VIDEO CARD DOES 9823432 GIGAFLOPS OF INFORMATION A MICROSECOND! SO IT HAS TO BE BETTER"
Quite clearly, you are a person of great knowledge and eductation on the subject; therefore trying to debate the differences is a task doomed to failure.

Look, this argument is as old as the hills. If you like 'arcade' type games (ie that can be adequately played via controller); or if you like the ease of use and low initial cost of a console, you get a console.

If you like games that develop a community (mods, patches, mmo's), require compex control mechanisms that require a keyboard / mouse, can afford it, or want to be able to do one of the other 50 million things a computer can do that (spellcheck and use of thesaurus normally being good examples^) then you have a computer.

The lucky ones have both. Now take your wall of text out of the general homebuilt forum.

Shoo, be off with ya.
November 27, 2006 12:53:37 PM

Quote:
Consoles have two advantages: standardized specs and sales at a loss.

...

A year after the release of the 360 ms still sells the unit at a loss. The money comes from games. GPU developers don't get to do that. As far as cost a lower end card will handle it just fine and in a year for half the cost you will have even better performance. ...



I have to agree with this. How would the question change if everyone had to pay cost plus profit for their new xbox 360 or PS3? I think you would find their costs above that of a decent gaming computer. (Especially for the PS3) If you had to pay normal profit ranges on these things.

That being said, they sell them at a loss, so you don't have to. The problem is that if the day came that PC games died, I think you would see the price of consoles skyrocket. But, I don't think that day will come, atleast not anytime soon.
November 27, 2006 1:53:01 PM

I think if you look at the number of players in Online gaming (WoW, Everquest, etc) & the furious pace of graphics cards you would determine that PC gaming is alive & healthy. I think what is more the case is game sales are down, as games become a larger more complex world they do not lose their fun & interest as quickly as they take longer to beat if that is even possible. The other side is the torrents & cracked versions that exist further chip away new sales. But the most overall killer of sales is the large quantity of crap games that are dumped out daily but companies just looking to try & cash in that put no real effort or though into the game they produce. It just becomes a re-hash of what has already been released & seen to be successful or just a slap together in the hope that it will take off & then can be tweaked later. Gamers aren't stupid & are driving the curve in most things PC related so they don't fall for the crap & break the games that are way overpriced.
November 27, 2006 2:10:07 PM

pc gaming is not dying, but is certainly facing hard times.

i am an avid pc gamer myself, but i finally bought a 360 last week so i could play gears of war.

hopefully in a year or two, vista and dx10 will give a much needed boost to pc gaming, once enuf people have upgraded their xp's to vista.

imo people who like tinkering around with pc settings and fixes make up the majority of the pc gaming crowd, while people who dont are the majority of console gaming crowd. And ofcourse u have people who do both coz of the platform exclusives like gears for xbox and wow for pc.
November 27, 2006 2:15:52 PM

Xbox exclusives Halo 1,2,3. 1 is availible on PC and has been for a while 2 will be availible in Feb. this is exactly the same as your HL2 Doom3 comment they will all be availible,
Except for Crysis the developers have said that the Second gen consoles are not powerful enough for this game (estimated for Feb release). they have only been out for a year and it already seems like they are behind the tech line,

UT 2007 is that not going to be DX10 based and as far as im aware the 360 is only capable of 9 you may have the game availible to you but not in its full glory

so maybe its not so much full house for you (lol online poker can you do that on a 360? merely a question im not sure)

consoles have there place and thats when you want to get a group of friends around to play pro evo (or similar) is always more fun on a console whilst the pc will always be the most powerful computers out there

as said in a previous post the Ps3 is out of date before it is even released. now then will i buy a ps3? i dont know depends on its cost next year and the games availible FF12 may swing it for me.

ok then how much did your notebook cost by the way because if you add this to the cost of your 360 all the games you own on the 360 (console games are more expensive) all the extra controllers and the monitor that you use (and extra cable if you use that) im sure you'll come near the price of a similar specced PC but that PC will be able to change if you want it to (only if you want upgrading is an option)(that 360 owners do not have)
November 27, 2006 2:34:58 PM

as i mentioned above the cost of Console games are greater than the PC equvilant therefore that is why they ae sold at a loss all profit is made from games and accessories

ok then lets do a little comparison

Pc @ ~ same spec as 360 ~£1000
10 games at ~ £29.99 ~£300
£1300

Xbox 360 ~ £275
10 games @ £45 ~£450
notebook/ laptop for work ~ £500
£1225

now then afaik price differance is negligible so basically its each to his own what you want /prefer personally i like to sit in front of my PC tinker about a bit play games burn CDs/dvds browse the internet etc however i also own a PS2 for the time crisis games so you could add that onto my price but you could with a few things but as far as Pc vs Console goes consoles have the marginal Price performance lead for now but come 07 that will swing back to the PCs and will remain that way until the 3rd gen Xbox is released
November 27, 2006 5:09:10 PM

Quote:


Flawless and perfectly smooth? WTF games are you playing. I've seen some incredibly crappy looking next-gen games, especially those designed for PC. LOTR battle for middle earth 2 on 360 looks like a friggin PS1 game. Sure a game like Ping-Pong looks incredible but give any real depth and the graphics either suck or the games tend to lag. For example Madden 07, the game looks incredible inbetween plays when there's nothing else going on, but as soon as you start to play again the game lags. I cant count how many times I've selected the wrong play because of the game stuttering while I'm picking a play. And as far as money goes, these next-gen systems look no better then there predecessors unless you have a high-def TV which cost a lot more then a decent monitor.


DAYAM!!.... GOOD POINT!

Personally... I will buy my son a Console - it will keep him off my rig :p 

When the time comes for him to grow up - I will buy him a beer, rent him a stripper, and help him build his first gaming PC... it is the way of things.
November 27, 2006 6:04:27 PM

Quote:

When the time comes for him to grow up - I will buy him a beer, rent him a stripper, and help him build his first gaming PC... it is the way of things.


That is the way of things....

Anyway to the point I have one simple observation to point out as to why pc gaming wont die.

have you noticed that a lot of the "cool" features of a console have come from a pc? examples: online gaming, down loadable updates to make the game better, how about playing your own music during game play? I always fire up winamp and some InFlames when i play quake 4. for some reason heavy metal music just makes me want to kill some aliens, and a little Mozart works well with Hitman.

Also one guy said he didn't care about what other things a pc can do all its about is games, well what about the blu ray player in ps3 or hd dvd player in the 360? Heck Sony even said they wanted one centralized product to handle all the consumers multimedia needs. Now even if you dont care about "other things" that a pc or console can do, apparently the large consumer base of sony and microsoft do care; otherwise sony and microsoft wouldn't bother making consoles loaded up with as much extra stuff as they can cram in.

What im getting at is that pc gaming develops new ideas much of the time and then they come to console games this is why pc gaming wont die.
November 27, 2006 6:06:34 PM

Lets see a console use TES construction set...nothing better than making your own add-on
November 27, 2006 6:16:56 PM

I already put a small tid bit of my argument into this earlier in the thread that I suppose Curious1 did not read. Yes I will pay more money for BETTER hardware any day of the week, as you said...to each his/her own! Price/Performance ratio isn't everything in life, it defiantly has is appeal at times, but is always negated by the fact that if I were to have paid more I would have gotten a better product.

Best,

3Ball
November 27, 2006 7:05:43 PM

Quote:
listen, im a pc gamer, and by that, i mean i play video games on my pc. i dont care what else it can run that a 360 or ps3 cannot..im talkinga bout gaming...and just because im a pc gamer doesnt mean i cant say when pc's have been defeated by consols. Pc gaming is defenetly, as of now, NOT better in any way than consols. the graphics are flat out flawless and they run perfectly smooth at all times. and everytime i say that i always get the same over excited respsonse from geeky pc gamers " BUT BUT BUT IT CAN DO OTHER THINGS TOO!" i dont care what other things the pc can do, we are talking about gaming, nothing more, and for gaming, pc has defenetly gone down hill...from delay in games up to and over a years worth of waiting, over expensive hardware (650 bucks for a video card?!?! 1500 bucks for a quad core processor!?!) new technology or not, thats way over priced considering that this will drop in price over months. iv been a pc gamer, for 5+ years now, and before these new consols came out, i swore by the graphics, the playability in games, and controls of the pc...personally, the only reason im staying with my pc for now, is because of the simple fact that i have a keyboard and mouse for my controls, nothings better..."BUT BUT BUT YOU CAN TURN UP THE RESOLUTION ON YOUR CUNTPUTER MONITOR TO 1900x1200" ...you know what, i dont care, i dont visually see a difference between 1024, 1280, or 1600x1200..let alone going up that high. gmaes like fear and counter strike is what kept me a pc gamer for right now, but , hey what do you know, fear is out for the 360, so are alot of other games. "BUT BUT YOU NEED A HIGH DEF LCD 2000 DOLLAR TV TO PLAY THEM ON"..ehem, if youv forgotten, i can easily hook a 360 up to my monitor, but i wont, cuz again, keyboard and mouse is the best. theres prolly only a few games in 2007 im looking forward to, half or most are coming out for the consols that cost as much as a single video card. (assassins creed, bioshock, stalker, ut2007, brothers in arms HH and a few others i might have forgotten) but all and all, Pc gaming is just becoming too expensive, enough is enough with these insanely high prices, all the hype about how powerful the new video card is to make it sound like its worth the 650 bucks. dont forget about buying a high end processor, esxpensive sticks of ram to go with your video card. So , i most defenetly think pc gaming is dying...when prices go down on these new video cards it will start all over again. now once again, i AM a pc gamer and i dont own any consols, im not taking sides, but, not using scientific garble, or nerdy hardware specs of the consols versus pc specs...i can simply say this...iv seen how good games look on the 360 and how good they run, and it just looks flat out amazing "BUT BUT BUT THE PCS VIDEO CARD DOES 9823432 GIGAFLOPS OF INFORMATION A MICROSECOND! SO IT HAS TO BE BETTER" ....that doesnt tell me ****, iv seen with my own 2 eyes, teh graphics power of these consols, and pc's , as of now, have lost the battle...crysis was the only game that looked like it could graphically annihilate the consols..but guess what, to no surprise, it got pushed back till september!!!!! :evil: 



LOL!!!!!!! no wait......hahahahah, hahahahahahahahaha. Whats so funny? The only online multi-player listed was CS. Dude play BF2 and tell me your Wii or xbox has games that play like that. Ever played unreal tourny on a PS2, it suxord.

Few questions for you.
Can people with a ps3 and x360 play together?
Are games now devolped on a PS3?
Will future computers be based on what Sony or microsoft are selling?
What happens when the PS4 comes out? Will a PS3 and PS4 be compatible?

The PROBLEM with consloes is planned obsolecence. Not upgradeable.

I would think that both consloe's ond pc's will continue to advance and niether is going anywhere anytime soon. Sure consloe games look better now, why wouldnt they? They have pc gamin rigs doing there homework for em.

Yes I do have a consloe for my kids. Yes I will buy them a Wii.
Consloe are great for 3rd person games, sport, driving.
NOT FPS.

Let me finish with hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha!

Listen, im not gonna go list EVERY pc game i play, but for yuor information, i do play battlefield 2, and 2142, along with prey and others. and i never disagreed that consols werent good for fps..however, the graphics are still much better. im not talking about upgradability, im not talking about controls, im not talking about nerdy hardware specs, im talking about GRAPHICS!! didnt you idiots read my post, or do you skim threw it cuz your such an angry pc gamer at the truth? how could you not be angry that your paying 650 bucks for the newest card, 1500 bucks for a fucking processor! 300 bucks for 2 sticks of ram that usually just break. i would be, unless your mommies pay for everything in which you arnt angry about the money part.
!