Mobo help

I posted this on the forums @ OverClockers.com, and got no replies. Douchebags... So I'll post it here, but I wanted your opinions before I had to go up top for more opinions...

I'm replacing the motherboard in my gaming PC, as I think I can get a little better out of it. I'm currently running a Gigabyte GA-M55SLI and a 5000+ BE. I got my multiplier up to 15x and it quit there. I haven't messed with it much since then. UPDATE: I'm now at 16x with decent temps. Had to bump the voltage a bit more!

I'm going to build a HTPC with my current mobo and the 3600+ that I had originally bought for it. I figured that it would be a good time to get a slightly better mobo for my PC

I'm looking at these three boards:
BioStar TForce TF570 SLI

Asus M2N-SLI

Gigabyte GA-M57-SLI

I'm currently leaning towards the Gigabyte board, but I like Asus as well, and I've heard a lot of good things about the TForce boards.

I'm not running RAID or anything fancy. It will just be the CPU, 2 Gb RAM (4 soon), 8800GT (SLI eventually), 160 Gb HDD and a pair of optical drives. And WinVista Ultimate 64-bit. That's really it.

Any and all suggestions / comments would be great.

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Reply to JustPlainJef

!!!!DIE NEWBIE DIE!!![/G]

Reply to Tom_Smart

Go take your chances in HW you darn AMD phanboy.

------------------------------ I've been an 8bit baby, a 16bit teenager, a 32bit student and now find myself as 64bit middle aged fart. Moores the pity.
Reply to audiovoodoo

It's a toss up, really.... They all have the same chipstes, so it comes down to features...... One may have more features than the other one....

It's good to ASUS using Nvidia chipsets now..... I used to use them all the time.... Gigabyte has a solid rep...... I'd probably go with either of those boards myself....

------------------------------

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Reply to RCPilot

Actually, the Asus is the 560 and the other two are the 570, but I don't see a whole ton of differences between them...

Bah. Hoping for more helpful answers... Thank you though RC.

Tom and AV can sod off.

=oP

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Reply to JustPlainJef

"Any and all suggestions / comments would be great."

What part of that did you not mean?

Reply to Tom_Smart

Not tempted by an AM2+ board to allow future updates?

------------------------------ I've been an 8bit baby, a 16bit teenager, a 32bit student and now find myself as 64bit middle aged fart. Moores the pity.
Reply to audiovoodoo

Meh. Don't upgrade that often...

I'll look...

No AM2+ with SLI ATM.

------------------------------ No more promise no more sorrow,
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Reply to JustPlainJef

Do you really have any need for SLI?

Message quoted 1 times

------------------------------ I've been an 8bit baby, a 16bit teenager, a 32bit student and now find myself as 64bit middle aged fart. Moores the pity.
Reply to audiovoodoo

SLI is a joke. Save the money and buy the next released GPU and you're better off.

Go with one of the two mobos that offers RAID.

Message quoted 1 times

Reply to riser

Gigabyte has a handy program for their motherboards for creating a backup of your freshly installed OS. Just leave yourself about 5-7GB of unpartioned space when formatting and partitioning your hard drive. In the case of Windows, I'd install the OS and chipset drivers, activate your copy, and then make your backup with Gigabyte's program.

SLI is only beneficial when gaming at high resolutions. I would also make sure that whatever card you buy is HDCP compliant. An 8800GT is a bit overkill if you're not gaming. The HD 3650 can be found in a fanless design and would serve your needs less most gaming capabilities while helping to keep the noise down.

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------------------------------ I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?"[/Chris Knight]
You know what ole Jack Burton says at a time like this? Ole Jack says...what the hell[/Jack Burton]

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Reply to Anoobis

I like shiny things up my bottom.

It makes me big and clever.

Reply to Dirty_Barry

But certainly not witty.

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Reply to KingLoftusXII

Brevity is the soul of wit.

SLI'ed 8800GT will be quite loud under load.

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Reply to Evilonigiri

N00b.... Why don't you go take a run with a pair of scissors.... oh wait...

Now to be helpful... I personally would go with the Gigabyte board... Best of luck

audiovoodoo wrote :

Do you really have any need for SLI?

Yes and no. I'd like to have the option, especially since my current video card is just over $200. In another 6 months, it should be a cheap upgrade.

riser wrote :

SLI is a joke. Save the money and buy the next released GPU and you're better off.

Go with one of the two mobos that offers RAID.

So are you. Apparently you can't read very well either. From my original message: I'm not running RAID or anything fancy.

Anoobis wrote :

Gigabyte has a handy program for their motherboards for creating a backup of your freshly installed OS. Just leave yourself about 5-7GB of unpartioned space when formatting and partitioning your hard drive. In the case of Windows, I'd install the OS and chipset drivers, activate your copy, and then make your backup with Gigabyte's program.

SLI is only beneficial when gaming at high resolutions. I would also make sure that whatever card you buy is HDCP compliant. An 8800GT is a bit overkill if you're not gaming. The HD 3650 can be found in a fanless design and would serve your needs less most gaming capabilities while helping to keep the noise down.

I'm replacing the motherboard in my gaming PC
OK, on this one I may have been less clear, but I already have an 8800GT 256 Mb. I do like the option of the backup, but I also hate restoring the OS or reinstalling Windows if I don't have to. And while it is my gaming PC, it's also my every day PC. I do run at 1440 x 900, so while it's not that high, it's fairly up there.

But that option to me is much more interesting than RAID, thank you!

I do have a few drives in the 10 - 20 Gb range, maybe I could add one of those just for the backup...

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Can anybody hear me?
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Reply to JustPlainJef

Before you blast Riser have you tried RAID 0 with a couple of modern NCQ drives? Given that you can see SLi I'm surprised you discount RAID so quickly.
In six months the card you can buy for $200 will be faster than two of what you have now, draw less juice and be less hassle to run. Mind you how much is the SLi permium? About $20?? In that case I think you've just decided to buy the Gigabyte.

Message quoted 1 times

------------------------------ I've been an 8bit baby, a 16bit teenager, a 32bit student and now find myself as 64bit middle aged fart. Moores the pity.
Reply to audiovoodoo

Go for the Gigabyte.

They have nice BIOSes. The last time I worked with an Asus board (2 weeks ago) the BIOS gave me a splitting headache, my wrists started bleeding, and some bearded idiot in a homespun robe and sandals started preaching about the 'End Is Near! Repent, ye sinners!' until I told him to find someone called Off and sodomise him.

------------------------------ The thought occurs that if I lived in a universe where merely knowing something will get me sucked into an alternate dimension and munched, I won't even live long enough to be cloned.
Reply to Mugz

Asus are also guilty of violating GPL on a few fronts.. Reason enough to go elsewhere. [/Open Source protest]

------------------------------ I've been an 8bit baby, a 16bit teenager, a 32bit student and now find myself as 64bit middle aged fart. Moores the pity.
Reply to audiovoodoo

In defence of Asus, I've always found their boards reliable - been using Asus boards for over 5 years in several builds and never had a problem with any of them.

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Reply to llama_man

audiovoodoo wrote :

Before you blast Riser have you tried RAID 0 with a couple of modern NCQ drives? Given that you can see SLi I'm surprised you discount RAID so quickly.
In six months the card you can buy for $200 will be faster than two of what you have now, draw less juice and be less hassle to run. Mind you how much is the SLi permium? About $20?? In that case I think you've just decided to buy the Gigabyte.

I don't believe that it will be 6 months before two 8800GT's will be slower than a single $200 card. I don't have time to look for benchies now, but I will before I buy a new card.

My issue with RAID is the doubled chance of catastrophic failure. I don't really have anything critical on the machine, but there are items on there that I don't want to lose. Should I back up more often? Absolutely. Do I? No.

And I only blasted Riser because I said I'm not going to run RAID, then he said to buy one with RAID. That, and it is Riser...

------------------------------ No more promise no more sorrow,
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Reply to JustPlainJef

Depends on the raid level but yes.. raid 0 does up the MTBF by some margin but what the hell.. Two smaller fast discs in a 0 array and a nice fat drive for storage. Given that you are building a media PC perhaps now is the time to invest in a low cost NAS unit and automate those backups with a nightly rsync or the like. They really can be had for beer budget money.

I'll accpet that 6 months might be pushing it but I'm sure you get my point. The card you have now works well for you but chopping it in for a better single card in say 8 - 12 months time while it still has some value and moving to a better card would almost certainly see bigger gains from everything I've read.

------------------------------ I've been an 8bit baby, a 16bit teenager, a 32bit student and now find myself as 64bit middle aged fart. Moores the pity.
Reply to audiovoodoo

I thought about going small drive for OS and large drive for storage, but it was recommended to me to go for a single drive for noise and heat. My budget confirmed that as the better choice.

I tried to go the cheap NAS way, and I'm not happy with it. I had two 80Gb HDD's in an old server, which was fine, until the server died. I didn't really like it anyway, so I bought a SC101 from NetGear, $99 at the time. Well, I come to find out that it doesn't use real RAID, it's proprietary, so if your device dies, you have to buy another one to get the data off of the drives. Also, you have to install software to access it. It works as directed, but I've only got 80 Gb of storage. I guess that for $130 I can get a pair of 250 Gb drives, that should last me for a long while. Maybe then take the two 80 Gb drives and put them in my gaming PC in RAID. Who the heck knows...

I bought a Thecus YES box for a client, and that was great. Eventually I'd like to do one of those at home, but for the unit and two 500 Gb drives, you are looking at $500. Ouch.

But it's true RAID and it's accessable as a network share.

------------------------------ No more promise no more sorrow,
No longer will I follow.
Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef

If you still have the SC101 you can do a fair amount of firmware work to convert it into a fully fledged linux server. Its a nice little ARM cpu in there and there are a couple of different routes to go, one as simple as just upgrading the firmware. PM me if you want the details.

------------------------------ I've been an 8bit baby, a 16bit teenager, a 32bit student and now find myself as 64bit middle aged fart. Moores the pity.
Reply to audiovoodoo

I want the details. PM me.

I've seen some of the mods, but haven't looked into it much. I do think it's time to upgrade the HDD's though...

------------------------------ No more promise no more sorrow,
No longer will I follow.
Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef

I'd find a way to chat, but I'm @ work.

------------------------------ No more promise no more sorrow,
No longer will I follow.
Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef

I'll have to have a look myself.. it's been a while since I looked into slugging a 101 myself. I'll drop you a PM later on with some details.

------------------------------ I've been an 8bit baby, a 16bit teenager, a 32bit student and now find myself as 64bit middle aged fart. Moores the pity.
Reply to audiovoodoo

K. I'll PM you my addy too... Just easier that way.

------------------------------ No more promise no more sorrow,
No longer will I follow.
Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef

@audio: Don't try explaining to him anymore... obviously he'd rather spend the money with SLI than actually doing it cheaper and better. You'd be surprised how many IT people in the States really have no fcuking clue.

If it were a gaming machine, I'd run a RAID, disable the paging file and make sure to have 2-3GB of RAM. Along with the 8800GT it would more that out do the SLI configuration given what he's running as a resolution.

But hey, let him go out, buy 2 8800GTs. That'll cost him more than doing the RAID and bumping up memory if needed. Besides that, I doubt he even knows how to install RAID.

I don't even game that much and I know more about setting up a PC for gaming than he does.

Message quoted 1 times

Reply to riser

JustPlainJef wrote :

I'm replacing the motherboard in my gaming PC
OK, on this one I may have been less clear, but I already have an 8800GT 256 Mb. I do like the option of the backup, but I also hate restoring the OS or reinstalling Windows if I don't have to. And while it is my gaming PC, it's also my every day PC. I do run at 1440 x 900, so while it's not that high, it's fairly up there.

But that option to me is much more interesting than RAID, thank you!

I do have a few drives in the 10 - 20 Gb range, maybe I could add one of those just for the backup...

Sorry, I misread your post. This whole advice giving thing is new to me.

I understand what you mean about restoring the OS and re-installing Windows which is why I noted the Gigabyte feature. Seriously though, hard drive space is pretty cheap these days so you might want to think about just getting one large drive and partitioning it out for easier management. A $100 on the Egg can get you a 500GB Western Digital or a 320GB Seagate. That's a lot of porn Jef, a lot.

Using XP & the Western Digital as an example you could give yourself a 100GB partition for the OS & Programs, 390GB for...err....data and that leaves you with a 10GB portion to leave unformatted for the Gigabyte Restore image of the basic OS (activated) install. Use TweakUI (not sure if it works with VISTA) to re-arrange where Windows locates the "Documents & Settings" folder, etc... to the "Data" partition you created and you're set.

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------------------------------ I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?"[/Chris Knight]
You know what ole Jack Burton says at a time like this? Ole Jack says...what the hell[/Jack Burton]

This forum format sucks. Bring back the old one.
Reply to Anoobis

Or just buy Norton Ghost for $70 or download it free.. and make backups that way with the ease of a couple clicks of the mouse button.

Still would have money left over after buying a new HDD and Ghost over buying a single, reduced price 8800GT.

Reply to riser

I wouldn't give a squirt of piss for anything Norton makes. The Gigabyte program comes free with the board and requires about 2 mouse-clicks to work.

G4L is also free and easy to use.

------------------------------ I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?"[/Chris Knight]
You know what ole Jack Burton says at a time like this? Ole Jack says...what the hell[/Jack Burton]

This forum format sucks. Bring back the old one.
Reply to Anoobis

The only Norton product I'd use is Ghost. Up until about 3 years ago I stuck with the command line based ghost.exe program. But when I got my hands on Norton Ghost v11 and installed it.. its kind of nifty. Puts the icon in the tray, right click - restore - select image on seperate partition/drive, click OK and it images the computer in about 7 minutes.

Same thing to create an image. Right click, create image, select location to put the .img file, click OK and new image is made.

I use it for MSI repackaging of software.. but since most stuff is finally coming in MSI format, I haven't had to use it much in the last year or so.

Reply to riser

If it works for you then great.

I'll be honest, the only experience I've had with Symantec products are the Norton AV products (corporate and home) which has been enough to keep me away from Symantec whenever possible.

I've seen people mention Ghost all the time but I've never had the need for it due to G4L.

------------------------------ I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?"[/Chris Knight]
You know what ole Jack Burton says at a time like this? Ole Jack says...what the hell[/Jack Burton]

This forum format sucks. Bring back the old one.
Reply to Anoobis

Ghost was one of the original programs used to image. Other things came and went like ImageCast and such.

Ghost was a very simple product from back in the days of DOS. It really hasn't changed much.. but the rest of the company went to hell on it. The ghost program itself is 233Kb or so. Fits on a floppy still and does a good job.

As far the AV stuff.. I use McAfee Enterprise edition. Its ok. I prefer Panda but I don't feel like paying for it when I get McAfee free.

Reply to riser

Ghost is great, we use it at work. We used to have SAV at work, and it was kind of a pig... It didn't update real well, it just wasn't great. Switched to McAfee, and it works a lot better, at least as far as the updates go.

------------------------------ No more promise no more sorrow,
No longer will I follow.
Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef

riser wrote :

@audio: Don't try explaining to him anymore... obviously he'd rather spend the money with SLI than actually doing it cheaper and better. You'd be surprised how many IT people in the States really have no fcuking clue.

If it were a gaming machine, I'd run a RAID, disable the paging file and make sure to have 2-3GB of RAM. Along with the 8800GT it would more that out do the SLI configuration given what he's running as a resolution.

But hey, let him go out, buy 2 8800GTs. That'll cost him more than doing the RAID and bumping up memory if needed. Besides that, I doubt he even knows how to install RAID.

I don't even game that much and I know more about setting up a PC for gaming than he does.

OK douche bag... Let's see some proof other than "Jef is stupid, as are most other people". So honestly, put your benchmarks where your mouth is. I'd love to see some proof of concept. Find me something that shows that RAID is a better investment than SLI, or that a new video card is a better upgrade than SLI with your current one. Don't factor in resale into the equation, as I don't think I'd sell the card.

I'd love to disable the paging file, but I had a program on my XP box that wouldn't run without it. Also, I have 2 Gb of RAM now, and will likely upgrade to 4 when I get the parts for my HTPC, as my current mobo / memory will be going into the HTPC.

Tell you what. Just for you, I'll run 3D Mark 06 with and without the swap file. Then I'll report back. I am running Vista with 2 Gb, but you said 2Gb would be OK.

Message edited by JustPlainJef on 02-14-2008 at 12:12:21 AM

------------------------------ No more promise no more sorrow,
No longer will I follow.
Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef

Anoobis wrote :

Sorry, I misread your post. This whole advice giving thing is new to me.

I understand what you mean about restoring the OS and re-installing Windows which is why I noted the Gigabyte feature. Seriously though, hard drive space is pretty cheap these days so you might want to think about just getting one large drive and partitioning it out for easier management. A $100 on the Egg can get you a 500GB Western Digital or a 320GB Seagate. That's a lot of porn Jef, a lot.

Using XP & the Western Digital as an example you could give yourself a 100GB partition for the OS & Programs, 390GB for...err....data and that leaves you with a 10GB portion to leave unformatted for the Gigabyte Restore image of the basic OS (activated) install. Use TweakUI (not sure if it works with VISTA) to re-arrange where Windows locates the "Documents & Settings" folder, etc... to the "Data" partition you created and you're set.

Noob, I do appreciate your advice... As I said, I'm on a budget as always, and so while a 500 Gb drive is only $100 or so, I already have to buy one for the HTPC, I don't think I can swing a second one. But as I was looking through my desk here, I just found a 40 Gb drive, so I could certainly use something like that.

This is honestly a couple months away, but I'm still trying to learn as much as possible. Basically what I have is a running PC plus an Athlon 64 X2 3600+ and a GeForce 8600 GTS, and an additional copy of Vista. I'm looking at another $500 for the rest of the second PC, and that doesn't even include the second video card for SLI, which I might or might not do, or the 2 250 Gb drives I want for my NAS box. So I'm weighing my options at the moment, so keep the ideas coming...

Message edited by JustPlainJef on 02-14-2008 at 12:13:15 AM

------------------------------ No more promise no more sorrow,
No longer will I follow.
Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef

don't listen to people like riser about things like sli, doesn't know damn all.

from my experiences multi gpu setups get better with time, price performance compared to newer cards no one can say as they ain't out yet, tech that is out now you know about, tech that isn't you are guessing.

basically, the more cards get stressed in multi gpu setups the better they compare to single card setups of the same type. this means that as games take more power you get better comparative FPS at most res's, the more stressful the game the better the gains at lower res, oblivion is a great example, you still gain at 12 x 10 and not just 20-30& either, can be double.

true not much games benefit like oblivion does but you get the picture, if the drivers are good, you do benefit.

------------------------------ I'm a git, deal with it.

Antec 1200,PC Power & Cooling 750,Gigabyte DS4-x48,Intel Q9550@3.4 W/Xigmatek S1283,8GB OCZ DDR2 800,ATI 4870X2,X-FI>CA 640C amp>Tannoy R300/Senn 595's
Reply to strangestranger

Riser, get a clue, please.

Instead of telling him he's a fool for wanting to pair up two graphics cards. I've seen setups with two cards, and once the user is over the initial config hurdles, those systems perform like nothing else. Particularly since their software has been tweaked and tuned up down to practically the hardware/firmware level. Take one card out, and although it performs pretty well without it, there is a huge difference.

------------------------------ The thought occurs that if I lived in a universe where merely knowing something will get me sucked into an alternate dimension and munched, I won't even live long enough to be cloned.
Reply to Mugz

Awww... But I like the fact Jef is getting shouted at. [/Jef Hater]

------------------------------ I've been an 8bit baby, a 16bit teenager, a 32bit student and now find myself as 64bit middle aged fart. Moores the pity.
Reply to audiovoodoo

I keep on forgetting about that.

------------------------------ The thought occurs that if I lived in a universe where merely knowing something will get me sucked into an alternate dimension and munched, I won't even live long enough to be cloned.
Reply to Mugz

Its one of those deep debates.. Allow Riser to post or allow Jef to take abuse?

------------------------------ I've been an 8bit baby, a 16bit teenager, a 32bit student and now find myself as 64bit middle aged fart. Moores the pity.
Reply to audiovoodoo

Personally, (and not because I don't want to be abused), I wouldn't let Riser post to insult DB or CoCo.

But that's me. And I used to find myself agreeing with the Chicken.

I had to leave before I got the last set of results, but here's what I got so far from 3DMark 06.
No swap file, no readyboost: 9595
Swap file, no readyboost: 9505
Delta for no swap file - 90 points, or about 1%.
No swap file, readyboost - 9603
Delts for no swap, Readyboost: 8 points.
EDIT: Swap + Readyboost: 9634.

Interestingly, the combination of a swap file AND my 1 Gb readyboost drive give me the highest marks.

So far, I'm not impressed by either. I'll look up some benchies for SLI when I get a moment.

Message edited by JustPlainJef on 02-14-2008 at 11:46:55 PM

------------------------------ No more promise no more sorrow,
No longer will I follow.
Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef

I found swap files on windows perfrom best when set to a fixed size. Set max and min to the same size and stick to the 1.5 times installed ram rule of thunb and it gives you a tad more.

As for readyboot does that not depend on the speed of the device you use as to how much of a boost you see?

------------------------------ I've been an 8bit baby, a 16bit teenager, a 32bit student and now find myself as 64bit middle aged fart. Moores the pity.
Reply to audiovoodoo

Disable the page file or not?, an interesting question. It has it's benefits and drawbacks. Why not simply force the OS to put the kernel and drivers into ram and leave the page file alone? Increased performance and a page file for apps that require it.

Go on Jef, run those tests again with the kernel forced into memory and with a page file. I'd like to see if I'm right or not.

Reply to Tom_Smart

How are you forcing the Kernel to ram? I've not played Windows for a while. Some applications do demand that you have a page file. Bad design but a fact of life.

------------------------------ I've been an 8bit baby, a 16bit teenager, a 32bit student and now find myself as 64bit middle aged fart. Moores the pity.
Reply to audiovoodoo

Here is how to do it for XP. I've not even checked if it can be done with Vista. I'll have a mooch about later.

1. Open the regedit tool (Start -> Run -> regedit.exe )
2. Use the navigation in the left and go to HKEY LOCAL MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management
3. Double click the DisablePagingExecutive attribute, and put 1 in the decimal value field
This will make the drivers and the XP kernel run in memory.
4. Double click the LargeSystemCache attribute, and put 1 in the decimal value field
This will improve performance of the kernel
5. Double click the IOPageLockLimit attribute. On some later versions of windows XP that doesn’t exists, so if this is the case you’re done. Otherwise you have to put to the hex value : 4000 for pcs with 128 mb ram, 10000 for 256 mb ram and if you have more put 40000. This value specifies how many bytes can be used for I/O operations in your system.
.

Reply to Tom_Smart

I'm on Vista, so I'll have to look when I get home.

I'll also run the test with a fixed swap file size. I've heard that's better, but have seen no proof. Now I can test it.

Maybe I should write this up for Tom's so they can say they had a decent article this year...

------------------------------ No more promise no more sorrow,
No longer will I follow.
Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef

1000 monkeys..

------------------------------ I've been an 8bit baby, a 16bit teenager, a 32bit student and now find myself as 64bit middle aged fart. Moores the pity.
Reply to audiovoodoo

Forum Old Man/Woman's Club : Other Mobo help

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