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agp: xfx 7600gt OR bfg 6800gs oc

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December 4, 2006 5:02:52 AM

im using an old agp system, athlon xp 2500 with 1gig ram... 350w power supply... i figured id try to overclock my geforce2 mx400, fried it on the first attempt, good riddance, now im stuck with onboard S3 till payday...

so far its a toss up between the two cards i listed int he subject. the bfg has 256bit ram, but the 7600gt's 128bit ram is running at 1.5ghz, so bandwidth doesnt suffer too much... i think... im not really sure which card would be best for my system. the 6800gs seems to use more power than the 7600gt, which is a concern since i only have 350watts to mess with, my system is far from fully loaded--only have a cd burner and hd hooked up, everything else is onboard... so imthinking the 6800gs would be fine in there, but if the 7600gt is faster anyways, and uses less power, then i guess ill go with that.

oh yeah, vendors are also a concern of mine... i cant find anything suitable from newegg, except for a 6800xt from xfx, they dont offer any 6800gs's or 7600gt's, just 7600gs---bleh.... the only xfx7600gt i could find is on "zipzoomfly.com" for just $180usd im not sure if they are any good, but yeah, anybody ever order from them? the only 6800gs i could find is from tigerdirect.com for $159 i believe...

anyways, thanks in advance for any advice, if you have any suggestions of cards that would be better for an agp system, please add, im looking to spend under 180 on a card

oh yeah, vendors are also a concern of mine... i cant find anything suitable from newegg, except for a 6800xt from xfx, they dont offer any 6800gs's or 7600gt's, just 7600gs---bleh.... the xfx7600gt is on "zipzoomfly.com" im not sure if they are any good, but yeah, anybody ever order from them?

More about : agp xfx 7600gt bfg 6800gs

December 4, 2006 5:49:48 AM

If you are going to spend $180 on a 7600GT you might be better off getting the 7800GS from newegg that is about $205.

I'm pretty sure that the 7600GT would be faster than the 6800GS.

One card you might also consider is the X800GTO. It is a bit cheaper and is still a decent card for old AGP systems that don't have a PCI express upgrade path.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
This card is going for $135 and I have one if you have any questions about it.
December 4, 2006 9:27:24 AM

u think ill have any problems running the 7800gs on a generic 350w psu? they say 400w is required, but then, like i said, my system is far from fully loaded. id rather not spend 200+ on the card, being as for 150 more than that i can upgrade to pci-e.... and my girlfriend yells at me when i look at 200$ cards.... haha

it says 12v20a is also required, which i dont have, i think mine is 12v18a... if that, actually it might be 12v15amp....
Related resources
December 4, 2006 2:40:23 PM

If you want a video card under $200 then the 7600GT is a great choice. The 6800GS is very close in comparison to the 7600GT but the 6800GS will be much harder to find as we do not manufacture it anymore. You can find the 7600GT but have to be fast as it sells out quick as it is a great by for AGP owners.

XFX Support
December 4, 2006 3:10:57 PM

7600GT vs 6800GT review

http://www.penstarsys.com/reviews/video/evga/7600gtco/

The 6800GS is very close in performance to the 6800GT, so this is as close as it gets in terms of apples to apples comparison.

Judge for yourself.

p.s. THe 7600GT doesnt need any extra 12V connectors, meaning it stays withing the 75W restriction imposed by the PCI-E bus. In fact, I think it's max draw is 65W.
December 4, 2006 3:13:29 PM

Yeah, you'll probably have problems w/ 7800gs on your PSU. Scougs obviously didn't read your post or just didn't care.

I'd go w/ 7600GT. With your PSU/AGP mobo it's probably the best you can do for yourself. My only complaint w/ 7600 is that the fans are a bit loud. I'd pick up a ZALMAN VF-900 as well (it will drop temps by ~15-20c anyway) if I were you.

Anyway, I hope this helps!
December 4, 2006 4:18:59 PM

I own the XFX 7600gt (regular version, not the OC'ed) and I have to say I love it for 3d games! My previous card was an Asus 9800xt (my wallet is still crying from that purchase 3.5 years ago).

My only issue seems to be with video. upon switching, I noticed the playback quality and speed DECREASED from my ancient 9800xt...is this due to Nvidia's 2d playback being inferior to ATI's drivers, a faulty card, or am I just not using the right settings in drivers?

the nvidia card seems to be incorrectly "color correcting" all of my video, and doesn't play h.264 back smoothly at all. I can't even do 720p without stuttering.

has anyone else had an issue with this?

don't get me wrong though. if you want a cheap card that pounds out fps in games and looks good while doing it, this card absolutely rocks.
December 4, 2006 4:35:25 PM

I haven't had an issue with that. It could be due to nVidia's drivers putting more stress on CPU than ATI drivers (I've heard that, but I don't know if it's this extreme).

Have you contacted XFX about it?
December 4, 2006 6:21:23 PM

I haven't yet, though you may have hit the mark with the larger CPU reliance. I'm using a P4 Northwood 3.2ghz, which is fast, but not near enough for HD high profile h.264. The eventual plan is to overhaul and build a nice shiny new system soon anyways.

What I'm still miffed about is that even with all nvidia video filters and color correction options turned off, movies still appear darker and oversaturated compared to how they were before.

I will contact XFX about it though and see what they have to say.
December 4, 2006 7:12:53 PM

well thanks for all the help everybody, as soon as payday rolls around, i think im going to get this 7600gt... just hoping that my lowley cpu can keep up with it... maybe its time for an overclock on the cpu, mua haha! and if i fry that too, ive got an excuse to TRY to find an xp3200+....
December 4, 2006 7:27:55 PM

Quote:
7600GT vs 6800GT review

http://www.penstarsys.com/reviews/video/evga/7600gtco/

The 6800GS is very close in performance to the 6800GT, so this is as close as it gets in terms of apples to apples comparison.

Judge for yourself.

p.s. THe 7600GT doesnt need any extra 12V connectors, meaning it stays withing the 75W restriction imposed by the PCI-E bus. In fact, I think it's max draw is 65W.
Yes, however his system is AGP based so the card should require a molex power cable.
December 4, 2006 7:56:48 PM

Quote:
u think ill have any problems running the 7800gs on a generic 350w psu?


Yeah, you probably will have trouble with the power. :oops:  When I responded, I wasn't thinking about the power requirements. Oops!
December 4, 2006 8:10:28 PM

I would suggest the x800gto too. I have it sitting in an old dell 4550 with a 2.4ghz northwood and 1280 mb ram. I also unlocked the extra 4 pipelines with the help of Scougs. It wasn't hard and my games were awsome, but limited by my cpu.
that system however is pretty much done for gaming. That's where my new rig comes in.

But overall, the x800gto is a GREAT card. My only problem was the drivers and Catalyst control center which slowed down the system.

Beware, the link that was posted is the gto with only a 128 bit interface. It seems that Sapphire has modified those cards in halving the bit interface, and shrinking the heatsink. Also , I don't know if they shortened that particular card since mine is extremely long in the case. the whole width of the mobo infact.

Good luck.
December 5, 2006 12:11:01 AM

Hmm...
I didn't notice that the website says 128-bit memory. I wonder if it might be an error because I haven't heard of 128-bit memory on an X800 before.
December 5, 2006 3:04:42 AM

yeh, i saw the 128-bit part in the ling too, newegg also has a "blue" saphire card x800gto as well, same price pretty much, but with 256-bit, i think i remember looking at sapphires site and at both of those x800's and the one with 128-bit did say 128-bit ont he saphire site, i THINk... no time to double check now, not a big deal...

i found a pny 6800gt for 149$refurbished and 169 retail at compuvest.com, i may get that, but im not sure about compuvest... ? i saw they had some old pentium pro's for sale with 1mb of cache--15bucks..... oooooo.... along with any other cpu as low as a pentium 166mhz... check them out... if anybody has shopped from them id like to know, they look like they will take a week to actually ship though... havint to sort thru 1000 year old computer parts to find the last few 6800's in stock lol...

if you can tell me for sure that the x800gto with 256-bit ram is better than the 6800gt, then i will probably go with the x800, but if it laggs too far behind the 7600gt, then i may as well get the gt, eh?

i do plan on keeping this system as possible, so i want the best value for the buck, under 200, preferably under 180.... any other suggestions are welcome...
December 5, 2006 3:36:46 AM

I had the 6800GS AGP, will oc stable to ~440Mhz, plus i managed to unlock half the pipes.

From THG vga benchmarks, i believe it WILL outrun a 7600.

If they r both AGP.... id say go 6800... but seriously, if u can do PCI-E u can get better cards for less

As a ROUGH guide... a little trick is to multiply the first 2 numbers...
So... 6800 = 6x8=48
7600 = 7x6=42

6800 wins :p 
December 5, 2006 3:49:15 AM

Quote:
As a ROUGH guide... a little trick is to multiply the first 2 numbers...
So... 6800 = 6x8=48
7600 = 7x6=42

6800 wins :p 

What strange part of your brain did you make that up in?
December 5, 2006 4:09:41 AM

7600gt
December 5, 2006 5:02:01 AM

I'm pretty sure that the memory is not 128-bit on the red Sappire GTOs but you would probably have to contact Newegg or Sapphire to be certain. I'm pretty sure that mine has 256-bit memory and I have one of the red ones, though I bought it almost a year ago.

I think that the 7600GT would probably be faster than a X800GTO but it is a lot cheaper and should work fine with your power supply. My experience with the red Sapphire cards over the summer showed that the memory on those cards can usually overclock a bit and every one I checked had an unlockable R430 core. Basically, that means that you can flash the bios to enable 4 more pixel pipes making the card equivelant to an X800XL. The core doesn't usually overclock more than about 440MHz on those cards.

So, I guess if you wan to spend the extra money to get a bit faster card, go for the 7600GT. I think that the X800GTO is a good choice if you want to save some money though.
December 5, 2006 1:04:05 PM

Here at Tigerdirect is a BFG 6800GS OC AGP x8 for 164$ with no mail in.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...

OR like other posters said 7600GT

Here is the XFX 7600GT XXX for 200 its AGP, that would be the best card for you.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...

If that is too much they also have XFX 7300GT AGP for only 104$

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...

First choice in terms on money would be the AGP verison of the 7600GT
Next would be the 6800GS for 160$
Lastly if you only wanna spend 100 or less then the 7300GT AGP is your best bet.
December 6, 2006 1:22:22 AM

*just to confirm:
the blue x800gto with a smaller heatsink DOES in fact have the 256-bit interface. It also is $140 but it is currently (12/5) out of stock.

the red one on newegg has a 128bit.

If you were considering getting the $200 7600gt, then you may as well get the 7800gs for around the same price.
BFG $206 with rebate

Question:
How come on the tigerdirect site for the 7600gt that was posted by xazax310 says that it is both gddr3 and gddr2???? plus it also has SLi capability? (keep in mind it's an agp card)
December 6, 2006 2:31:15 AM

Quote:
*just to confirm:
the blue x800gto with a smaller heatsink DOES in fact have the 256-bit interface. It also is $140 but it is currently (12/5) out of stock.

the red one on newegg has a 128bit.

If you were considering getting the $200 7600gt, then you may as well get the 7800gs for around the same price.
BFG $206 with rebate

Question:
How come on the tigerdirect site for the 7600gt that was posted by xazax310 says that it is both gddr3 and gddr2???? plus it also has SLi capability? (keep in mind it's an agp card)


Before I bought my current setup, I looked at the x800 and x850's and found that some suppliers were offering cards with 128bit mem and not quite making it as obvious as I thought it should be. The performance of the x850XT (256bit) is apparently similar to the 7600GT.

I cannot comment on the 7800, I don't have one.

The 7600GT's all come with GDDR3, some 7600GS's come with GDDR3 (usually named 7600GST) but most are GDDR2, the default specs for the 7600GT's and GS's include SLI capability, obviously the AGP ones can't do that, people shouldn't cut and paste without some research and proof reading.
December 6, 2006 3:25:47 AM

Forget X800GTO completely .. it is outdated already .. some games now are Shader Model 3 exclusive .. like Splinter Cell .. many games also have disabled Visual options on all SM2 cards like X800 family .

So 7600GT is the best choise right now .. it has SM3 support .. also provides a cutting edge performance in all modern games at 1024 x 768 resolution .

the card is even par(or bar :roll: ) to par(bar) with 6800Ultra .. it can even surpass it in some cases .

7600GT and don't hesitate ..
December 6, 2006 3:38:15 AM

But who seriously plays at 1024x768 unless they have to (like in oblivion with many cards)?
December 6, 2006 4:28:05 AM

The 7600GT outperforms the 6800Ultra cleanly. Maybe not by a big margin, but it definitely does. I wont bother trying to dig up the exact review, but I remember reading some that compared it to a 6800GT (which was no contest) and then another that compared it to top previous generation DX9 cards (6800ULTRA and the x850xt/pe).

One thing I want to say though, with your system the 7600GT is close to (if not the) highest upgrade I'd recommend. You'll be bottlenecked by the CPU somewhat, although less so in fps games.

The jump from your previous card (mx400) will be enormous though. It'll be like day and night. In your case, I think you'll be very satisfied even with a cheaper card (like a 6800XT AGP, can be found for a good 20-30$ less than the 7600GT usually) or something from the x800-x850 family.
Since this is a system that I assume you intend to replace as soon as you have the funds, I would not invest too much in a pricier mid-end video card - especially if it will not perform to it's fullest with your
setup. And considering that the card will be AGP, you will not be able to reuse it in later builds either.

My 2c, others will argue

Cheers
December 6, 2006 4:50:57 AM

I got a bit of time now (waiting for a compile), so I decided to check Newegg for some decent deals on cards that might be suitable for you (imo).

Any of these will provide a significant boost to you in terms of performance, some more than others (obviously this shows price-wise).
SLowest to fastest (or cheapest to ... not so cheapest) :


1. 9800PRO

A somewhat outdated card by today's standards, but a good match for your specs and a HUGE upgrade from the mx400 for sure. 80$
Probably can be found a good 10$ cheaper elsewhere if you look hard enough. Will carry you through till you decide to do a total system upgrade, especially on lower res (1024, medium details), but dont expect to max out details in FEAR with this little guy :) 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...


2. 6800XT 256mb (DDR3)

Some call it the "crippled" 6800, but again in your case would be a significant upgrade. 110$ for the AGP version is not a bad price.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...



3. 7600GS

Performs close to a 6800GT. Not the best price I've seen for it lately, but not too much of a ripoff either . 124$. Choice of many brands around about the same pricepoint (125-130$). All limited by slower DDR2 memory though ...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

4. The 7600GT or the 7800GS

The 7800GS is better, but to be honest I dont know if the difference is significant. 180-220$ range. Not sure if either are worth getting unless you OC your CPU.


I also browsed through tigerdirect quickly, and found somewhat similar deals.

1. x700 256mb (roughly a 9800Pro) - 80$
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...

2. 7600GS from EVGA - 130$
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...

One advantage from going with EVGA is that they have as step up program. If you want to upgrade your card within 3 months of purchase, buy another card of their brand and only pay the difference when you return your original card. Makes sense if you plan on upgrading shortly, otherwise of limited use. Midrange and higher EVGA cards usually carry a great liftime OC friendly warranty, but this one only has 12 months :( 


I know there are better deals out there, but amongst the slew of overpriced ripoffs on newegg/tiger, these are the ones I found were the most decent value. Its hard to shop for AGP nowadays since the cards are so damn overpriced when compared to the PCI-E models.
December 6, 2006 12:35:39 PM

buy.com has some sweet deals on their video cards if you use Google Checkout. Right now, Google has a promo where they will take off $20 for purchases made over $50 bucks. Plus free shipping!

This is the 7600GS that I'm looking at. Please let me know if you think this is a good deal.

http://www.buy.com/prod/XFX_GeForce_7600_GS_256MB_DDR2_...
December 6, 2006 12:36:37 PM

I forgot to mention the 7600GS is only $112 w/ free shipping if you use Google Checkout.
December 6, 2006 12:49:52 PM

whops, I posted this in the wrong thread. :?
December 6, 2006 8:47:58 PM

Quote:
The jump from your previous card (mx400) will be enormous though. It'll be like day and night. In your case, I think you'll be very satisfied even with a cheaper card (like a 6800XT AGP, can be found for a good 20-30$ less than the 7600GT usually) or something from the x800-x850 family.


I couldn't agree with you any more. I went from a mx420 on my old dell (that was before I built my first rig) to the x800gto and WOW! the difference is enormous![/quote]
December 6, 2006 9:12:03 PM

I got a question for you actually (rabidbunny) about that 320G Seagate you got. I can get it for 80$ locally (sale), but I'm wondering about it's acoustics. I've been spending extra time trying to keep my rig quiet, so I dont want to buy a HD that will void all that effort for me :) 

Your input is appreciated.
December 6, 2006 10:28:58 PM

Well, I guess it isn't any more noisy than my dell's harddrive. I don't pay alot of attention to the noise so I do not quite know what you would consider a 'quiet' hard drive. I do know that when I am playing a game, I do not hear it at all. The only thing I really hear is the dammed graphics card fan go 100% on me when I play games or watch a movie in Windows media player.

I CAN however tell you about the performance in one word: AWSOME!. I've had absolutely NO issues with it and would buy another if I wanted another harddrive. There is PLENTY of space for me as I only have 6gbs of music, about 10 games installed, and some other programs with 247gb left. Keep in mind though that the harddrive (as with most harddrives) will show up with less space in windows than what is advertised. Theoretically, I only have a max of 298 gb total space ont he drive.

If sound is a big issue, then you may want to look into soundproofing your case.
December 6, 2006 11:11:34 PM

Thanks for the feedback, I'll be getting one this week. My case is a steel case and I used rubber mounting kits for all my case fans (to reduce vibration), as well as custom mounts to minimize HD noise resonating through the case. All in all, by far the loudest thing in my case is a 500W ULTRA X-finity PSU (when the fan is on anything but it's lowest rpm) ... but I dont want to spend another 70-80$ for a good antec/seasonic/enermax ... That's another reason why one should never trust those newegg/tigerdirect "mini-reviews". People write totally inadequate garbage that is often far from reality. In fact, nowadays the only reason I read through those things is to look for negative comments (those are usually true) among the hundreds of useless "this thing is awesome" statements.

p.s. To the OP : sorry for hijacking your thread, but I didnt feel like my small question was worth a separate thread.
December 6, 2006 11:48:12 PM

just out of curiosity, what do you consider a 'quiet' harddrive?
December 7, 2006 12:03:37 AM

the 76gt and 68gs are pretty close so i would go with whichever one is cheaper.

dont get a ati x8## series they are good but do not render sm3.0.
December 7, 2006 12:10:35 AM

A quiet HD is one I can't hear (unless it's doing some crazy file transfer, like during defrag) even when all my fans are on low and the PSU fan is off ... typically when you do some typing/browsing. There's enough noises coming from there as is, no need to add the HD clicking into the mix :) 
December 7, 2006 12:26:31 AM

Quote:
But who seriously plays at 1024x768 unless they have to (like in oblivion with many cards)?

:lol:  You'll be surprised how many people do .. most gamers play at a resolutions of 1280 x 1024 or lower because they only have 17' monitors .

Besides ..Raising the resolution with a 128-bit cards isn't a smart choice .. better lower the resolution and use AA .. for example : on a 6600GT ..Call OF Duty 2 can be FULLY maxed at a resolution of 800 x 600 and 8X AA.

I know it sounds crazy but it's true .
December 7, 2006 12:39:19 AM

Quote:
Call OF Duty 2 can be FULLY maxed at a resolution of 800 x 600 and 8X AA.

I know it sounds crazy but it's true .


yes i can play cod2 on a dell with 2.4 celeron and 2 256k of mem
and a fx5200 pci in aax4 and it plays and looks great even the smoke.

edit; well aax2 cause x4 it studders when grenades go off sometimes.
December 7, 2006 12:52:45 AM

i think the only game ive ever played in a resolution above 1024x768 is maybe quake2, or half life..... i tried it once with morrowind, and my geforce mx couldnt take it, it could barely play at 1024....

a lot of the reason is my monitor i guess.... it goes up to 1280x1024, but my graphics card was crap....

i fould an ati card that they just added, at newegg, its another x800gto, same as the blue sapphire model, but its red.... its brand new there i guess, cuz it wasnt there 5 hours ago..... i think im going to go with that one, because its only 140... payday is tomorrow

they really needed to stick with single digit numbers, when making all these friggan new video cards.... whats the point of even making a 7600, if the 6800gt is almost equal to the thing? why not just make a 6, and a 7...? and make them both gt models only.... then you either buy a 6, or a 7... instead of a gs, gt xt xl or gto of like 5 different models
December 7, 2006 3:54:26 AM

Quote:
But who seriously plays at 1024x768 unless they have to (like in oblivion with many cards)?

:lol:  You'll be surprised how many people do .. most gamers play at a resolutions of 1280 x 1024 or lower because they only have 17' monitors .

Besides ..Raising the resolution with a 128-bit cards isn't a smart choice .. better lower the resolution and use AA .. for example : on a 6600GT ..Call OF Duty 2 can be FULLY maxed at a resolution of 800 x 600 and 8X AA.

I know it sounds crazy but it's true .
Hence the fact that I said "unless they have to". If I dont have to play at 1024x768, do you think I will? And as for COD 2, I would rather play at 1280x1024 with 4xAA and 8x AF with everything maxed on my 9800 pro with the dx7 renderer, than 800x600 and 4xAA and 4xAF and everything maxed (since the 9800 pro is weaker than 6600gt) on the dx9 renderer. Anything less than 1024x768 is simply unacceptable no matter what AA setting you use. AA at 800x600 or less just makes jagged blurs around objects and I prefer no AA at these resolutions (not that I play them, but if I had to) coz AA makes it look worse.
December 7, 2006 3:56:52 AM

A 6800gt is almost equal to a 7600gt because a 6800gt is near top of the line in its generation. The 7600gt is mid-range. Compare the 6600gt to the 7600gt to have a fair comparison, since they are both mid-range of their respective generations. Or compare the 6800gt to the 7800gt.
December 7, 2006 7:47:44 PM

k, too late guys, i just ordered the x800gto from newegg... hoping it comes with 16 pipes, or a 480 core... that would be cool....

thanks

im sure you guys in the nvidia forum are happy to hear that.
December 7, 2006 8:28:27 PM

Quote:
k, too late guys, i just ordered the x800gto from newegg... hoping it comes with 16 pipes, or a 480 core... that would be cool....


Um, I doubt that it will come with 16 pipes cuz that's because YOU have to mod the bios. I also wouldn't count on a 480 core, more than likely you will get an r430 core like I did.
December 7, 2006 11:56:32 PM

i dunno, like half the people that actually reviewed the card on newegg, they say that they got 16 pipes right out of the box, either way, it will have 16 pipes when im done with it.... hopefully.... i just gotta do some more reserch and stuff now on how to do all that stuff. ive been nvidia ever since i got my first "graphics blaster rivaTNT" so i know almost nothing about ati.... but ive also been AMD ever since the k6-2 days.... and now that AMD owns ATI, i may as well go that way too, haha...

well you guys may as well stop th replies now :D  thx for all the advice, maybe you'll see me in the ati forums now
December 8, 2006 2:44:09 AM

Well, when you want to get those extra 4 pipes working, PM Scougs to get help with doing that and I can help with that too as Scougs helped me add the extra 4 pipes.

Quote:
i dunno, like half the people that actually reviewed the card on newegg, they say that they got 16 pipes right out of the box, either way, it will have 16 pipes when im done with it.... hopefully.... i just gotta do some more reserch and stuff now on how to do all that stuff.


...I think if you get a pre-used card then you may get one that has already been modified. I think what they mean about 'right out of the box' is that it moded to 16 pipes as soon as they installed the card. You will be able to tell how many it has by using ATitool. In fact, that will be a main component in moddding the GTO.

Let us know when you need our help 8O :)  [/quote]
!