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Treo 650 compatible with new high speed 3G Cingular network?

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Anonymous
December 2, 2004 1:01:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I am not very knowledgeable about the type of network that Cingular is
setting up (by end of 2006). The press doesn't provide much details either.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6622740/

Will Treo 650 work at the high speeds on this 3G network?

--
Aloke
----
to reply by e-mail remove 123 and change invalid to com
Anonymous
December 2, 2004 1:20:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <Qarrd.1294$CG4.512@fe2.columbus.rr.com>,
"Aloke Prasad" <aprasad123@columbus.rr.invalid> wrote:

> I am not very knowledgeable about the type of network that Cingular is
> setting up (by end of 2006). The press doesn't provide much details either.
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6622740/
>
> Will Treo 650 work at the high speeds on this 3G network?

First off be aware that there are two different Treo 650's.

A CDMA model for Sprint, already being sold.

A GSM model for Cingular and T-Mobile thats not out yet.

read:

<http://www.palmone.com/us/products/smartphones/treo650/...
..pdf>

and you will know as much as anyone.
Anonymous
December 2, 2004 1:53:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Jack Zwick" <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jzwick3-FB7AF1.16203301122004@news1.east.earthlink.net...
> In article <Qarrd.1294$CG4.512@fe2.columbus.rr.com>,
> "Aloke Prasad" <aprasad123@columbus.rr.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I am not very knowledgeable about the type of network that Cingular is
>> setting up (by end of 2006). The press doesn't provide much details
>> either.
>>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6622740/
>>
>> Will Treo 650 work at the high speeds on this 3G network?
>
> First off be aware that there are two different Treo 650's.
>
> A CDMA model for Sprint, already being sold.
>
> A GSM model for Cingular and T-Mobile thats not out yet.

I was aware of the CDMA vs. GSM versions of phones and networks. I use a
multiband Motorola V300 with Cingular.

I was hoping someone would know more about the 3G networks that Cingular has
announced ..

From John Navas's post it appears that Treo 650 won't be compatible at
higher speeds. Isn't Treo using the EDGE technology?

"The new network will offer average data speeds of 400 to 700 kilobits
per second, versus 135 kilobits per second on the current EDGE
network, and "bursts to several megabits per second on capable
devices." ..."
--
Aloke
----
to reply by e-mail remove 123 and change invalid to com
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Anonymous
December 2, 2004 1:55:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <Qarrd.1294$CG4.512@fe2.columbus.rr.com> on Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:01:20 GMT,
"Aloke Prasad" <aprasad123@columbus.rr.invalid> wrote:

>I am not very knowledgeable about the type of network that Cingular is
>setting up (by end of 2006). The press doesn't provide much details either.
>
>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6622740/
>
>Will Treo 650 work at the high speeds on this 3G network?

Only if it supports UMTS (which I'm pretty sure it doesn't).

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
December 2, 2004 2:12:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <oZrrd.8794$_3.105001@typhoon.sonic.net>,
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:

> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <Qarrd.1294$CG4.512@fe2.columbus.rr.com> on Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:01:20 GMT,
> "Aloke Prasad" <aprasad123@columbus.rr.invalid> wrote:
>
> >I am not very knowledgeable about the type of network that Cingular is
> >setting up (by end of 2006). The press doesn't provide much details either.
> >
> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6622740/
> >
> >Will Treo 650 work at the high speeds on this 3G network?
>
> Only if it supports UMTS (which I'm pretty sure it doesn't).

It'll be 2 + years before the UZTMS is anywhere near widely available.
By then we'll be at the Treo 850.

The 650 does support EDGE.
December 2, 2004 2:12:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Jack Zwick wrote:

> In article <oZrrd.8794$_3.105001@typhoon.sonic.net>,
> John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>
>
>>[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>>
>>In <Qarrd.1294$CG4.512@fe2.columbus.rr.com> on Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:01:20 GMT,
>>"Aloke Prasad" <aprasad123@columbus.rr.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I am not very knowledgeable about the type of network that Cingular is
>>>setting up (by end of 2006). The press doesn't provide much details either.
>>>
>>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6622740/
>>>
>>>Will Treo 650 work at the high speeds on this 3G network?
>>
>>Only if it supports UMTS (which I'm pretty sure it doesn't).
>
>
> It'll be 2 + years before the UZTMS is anywhere near widely available.
> By then we'll be at the Treo 850.
>
> The 650 does support EDGE.


And Cingular barely has that.

--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
Anonymous
December 2, 2004 7:42:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <GXrrd.794$zJ.118@fe1.columbus.rr.com> on Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:53:26 GMT,
"Aloke Prasad" <aprasad123@columbus.rr.invalid> wrote:

>I was hoping someone would know more about the 3G networks that Cingular has
>announced ..
>
>From John Navas's post it appears that Treo 650 won't be compatible at
>higher speeds. Isn't Treo using the EDGE technology?

Cingular 3G is based on UMTS -- see the press release.

>"The new network will offer average data speeds of 400 to 700 kilobits
> per second, versus 135 kilobits per second on the current EDGE
> network, and "bursts to several megabits per second on capable
> devices." ..."

Read that more carefully. ;-)

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
December 2, 2004 7:54:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <jzwick3-D43A4D.17124801122004@news1.east.earthlink.net> on Wed, 01 Dec
2004 23:12:48 GMT, Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote:

>In article <oZrrd.8794$_3.105001@typhoon.sonic.net>,
> John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>
>> In <Qarrd.1294$CG4.512@fe2.columbus.rr.com> on Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:01:20 GMT,
>> "Aloke Prasad" <aprasad123@columbus.rr.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >I am not very knowledgeable about the type of network that Cingular is
>> >setting up (by end of 2006). The press doesn't provide much details either.
>> >
>> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6622740/
>> >
>> >Will Treo 650 work at the high speeds on this 3G network?
>>
>> Only if it supports UMTS (which I'm pretty sure it doesn't).
>
>It'll be 2 + years before the UZTMS is anywhere near widely available.

UMTS is already available in the greater metro areas of Seattle, San
Francisco, San Diego, Phoenix, Dallas, and Detroit.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
December 2, 2004 7:56:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <colqtj$dk6@library2.airnews.net> on Wed, 01 Dec 2004 19:26:07 -0600, Jer
<gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:

>Jack Zwick wrote:

>> The 650 does support EDGE.
>
>And Cingular barely has that.

EDGE is in fact widely deployed. See
<http://www.cingular.com/download/GPRS_EDGE_coverage_10_...;

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
December 2, 2004 7:56:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

John Navas wrote:

> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <colqtj$dk6@library2.airnews.net> on Wed, 01 Dec 2004 19:26:07 -0600, Jer
> <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:
>
>
>>Jack Zwick wrote:
>
>
>>>The 650 does support EDGE.
>>
>>And Cingular barely has that.
>
>
> EDGE is in fact widely deployed. See
> <http://www.cingular.com/download/GPRS_EDGE_coverage_10_...;
>


Oh God, another map...! Apparently, deployed is one thing, actually
working quite another. I have no need for wireless data at any speed,
but a friend that does travels with me and a GC-82 often enough to
notice when it works and when it doesn't. It doesn't most of the time.
GPRS yes, EDGE, nada.

--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
Anonymous
December 2, 2004 9:28:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <com9ol$ngk@library2.airnews.net> on Wed, 01 Dec 2004 23:39:28 -0600, Jer
<gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:

>> EDGE is in fact widely deployed. See
>> <http://www.cingular.com/download/GPRS_EDGE_coverage_10_...;
>
>Oh God, another map...! Apparently, deployed is one thing, actually
>working quite another.

EDGE is in fact actually working as advertised.

>I have no need for wireless data at any speed,
>but a friend that does travels with me and a GC-82 often enough to
>notice when it works and when it doesn't. It doesn't most of the time.
> GPRS yes, EDGE, nada.

With the GC82, there's no direct way to tell whether it's in EDGE (actually
EGRPS) or GRPS mode, so I assume you're making that distinction based on
speed, but that won't necessarily be accurate, since EDGE has similar speed to
GPRS in poorer signal conditions. In addition, the GC82 might not be
performing its best if the firmware hasn't been updated to the latest version.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
December 2, 2004 11:16:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

John Navas wrote:
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <com9ol$ngk@library2.airnews.net> on Wed, 01 Dec 2004 23:39:28 -0600, Jer
> <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:
>
>
>>John Navas wrote:
>
>
>>>EDGE is in fact widely deployed. See
>>><http://www.cingular.com/download/GPRS_EDGE_coverage_10_...;
>>
>>Oh God, another map...! Apparently, deployed is one thing, actually
>>working quite another.
>
>
> EDGE is in fact actually working as advertised.

Doesn't appear to be to my GC-82 friend.

>
>
>>I have no need for wireless data at any speed,
>>but a friend that does travels with me and a GC-82 often enough to
>>notice when it works and when it doesn't. It doesn't most of the time.
>> GPRS yes, EDGE, nada.
>
>
> With the GC82, there's no direct way to tell whether it's in EDGE (actually
> EGRPS) or GRPS mode, so I assume you're making that distinction based on
> speed, but that won't necessarily be accurate, since EDGE has similar speed to
> GPRS in poorer signal conditions. In addition, the GC82 might not be
> performing its best if the firmware hasn't been updated to the latest version.
>

Well, yeah, speed, of course. Is there some other way? The firmware
was downloaded from the SE website just a week or so ago, and I watched
him flash it, and verify it's existence afterward. Did it seem to help?
He didn't think so when I spoke to him last night. As far as signal
level is concerned, the software he uses has a signal level indicator
(a vertical series of increasingly larger bubbles which get bigger and
coloured orange with stronger signals). That's what he, and presumably
others, use to know about signal level - all bubbles orange = strongest
signal. I don't recall anything that indicated how many channels are
bonded for his connection. So, he presumes that 70-80Kb/s is the
quality of the delivered service.

So, we all need to understand he's not going to get wrapped around the
axle about the technicalities of service delivery - he IS going to get
wrapped around the axle if his data service doesn't perform as
advertised and paid for AND he's not going to give a rat's furry butt
about much else. He's not a cellular engineer, he doesn't understand
(nor care) which widget has to fit the nexus on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and
alternate Fridays, he's using the Cingular service with Cingular
equipment according to Cingular's instructions. That's all he cares
about, and that's all he should care about - anything else is
superfluous and unecessary. Since it's his service, his equipment, his
job, and his time being paid for by his pocketbook, only his opinion
matters.

Now, is there anything else about this situation that you need to be
confused about?

--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
Anonymous
December 2, 2004 6:36:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <con813$ho0@library2.airnews.net> on Thu, 02 Dec 2004 08:16:00 -0600, Jer
<gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:

>> EDGE is in fact actually working as advertised.
>
>Doesn't appear to be to my GC-82 friend.

Does for me and others. Perhaps your friend has a defective card, downlevel
firmware, or is working in poor signal areas.

>> With the GC82, there's no direct way to tell whether it's in EDGE (actually
>> EGRPS) or GRPS mode, so I assume you're making that distinction based on
>> speed, but that won't necessarily be accurate, since EDGE has similar speed to
>> GPRS in poorer signal conditions. In addition, the GC82 might not be
>> performing its best if the firmware hasn't been updated to the latest version.
>
>Well, yeah, speed, of course. Is there some other way?

Yes, with the proper tools.

>The firmware
>was downloaded from the SE website just a week or so ago, and I watched
>him flash it, and verify it's existence afterward.

So previously the firmware was downlevel.

>Did it seem to help?
> He didn't think so when I spoke to him last night.

But then it's only been a week.

>As far as signal
>level is concerned, the software he uses has a signal level indicator
>(a vertical series of increasingly larger bubbles which get bigger and
>coloured orange with stronger signals).

Sounds like Cingular software. He might get better results with the latest
Sony Ericsson Wireless Manager. (That's what I use.)

>That's what he, and presumably
>others, use to know about signal level - all bubbles orange = strongest
>signal.

There are better ways to read the signal from the card; e.g., FMA, which will
display the actual percentage of signal.

>I don't recall anything that indicated how many channels are
>bonded for his connection.

The number of timeslots (not channels) can only be known with certainty with
the proper tools; otherwise it can only be inferred.

>So, he presumes that 70-80Kb/s is the
>quality of the delivered service.

If measured accurately (a big if) and if the computer is configured properly
(another big if), that suggests EGPRS (EDGE) rather than GPRS and a relatively
weak signal. In my own tests of Cingular EDGE with very good signal, the GC82
consistently achieved 130/180 Kbps on downlink (depending on timeslots, 2 or
3), and 120 Kbps on uplink (2 timeslots). With only good signal, downlink was
100-110 Kbps.

>So, we all need to understand he's not going to get wrapped around the
>axle about the technicalities of service delivery - he IS going to get
>wrapped around the axle if his data service doesn't perform as
>advertised and paid for

He's getting what was advertised and paid for -- top performance isn't
guaranteed in all cases.

>AND he's not going to give a rat's furry butt
>about much else. He's not a cellular engineer, he doesn't understand
>(nor care) which widget has to fit the nexus on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and
>alternate Fridays, he's using the Cingular service with Cingular
>equipment according to Cingular's instructions. That's all he cares
>about, and that's all he should care about - anything else is
>superfluous and unecessary. Since it's his service, his equipment, his
>job, and his time being paid for by his pocketbook, only his opinion
>matters.

With that attitude he's not likely to get the best performance. His choice.

>Now, is there anything else about this situation that you need to be
>confused about?

It's not me that's confused. ;-)

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
!