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How to kill an 8800 GTS for the sake of the GTX...

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December 5, 2006 12:28:17 AM

Hi all
I'll be brief. After setting up my signature system, and after the initial "I got one of the first 8800's and I'm the king of tha hood" stuff settled, I kinda found out the GTS isn't quite enough for me. Let me explain:
What I use the PC for is driving and flight simulators. As far as driving sims are concerned, the GTS plays everything and asks for more. I mostly drive in GT Legends and GTR 2 and there it just can't get any better. But when it comes to Flight Simulator X, well that's another story. Maxxed out evertything, I get about 16-20 fps at best, when looking at storm clouds and sea...
So, I was thinking my two options: Either get a GTX and see if it can cope with that, or wait for R600 which should be better than both the 8800's...
SLI is not an option for me, too much money for 20% performance gain, it's just not worth it.
In order to get the GTX though, I somehow gotta kill the GTS and RMA it, pay the difference and buy a GTX from the same store. Its 2 weeks old, and I wouldn't like to sell it; I would lose a ton of money.
It's either that or wait for R600 and then kill the GTS (3 year warranty). Getting the GTX now is my first option since I just can't stand the wait with no release dates, prices and performance announced yet for R600.
So anyone, please tell me a way to absolutely undeniably make the VGA card burn down, without the rest of my system doing so, so I can return it and have it RMA'ed beyond doubt. Any software killing the BIOS or something would be best since I'm afraid of tinkering with electronic components, that could burn the whole system...

More about : kill 8800 gts sake gtx

a b U Graphics card
December 5, 2006 1:04:47 AM

FSX is also very cpu bound.
and i dont think it is utilizing sli?

though it does play smoother with sli.

i hear that fsx is suposse to be dx10 patchiable?
if so then your g80 card will/should run it with all the bells and whistles.

though it may look like an fx5200 on bf2> :lol: 
December 5, 2006 1:07:12 AM

Whoever told you SLI only improves performance by 20% was probably only talking of a worst case scenario. If you really want Flight Simulator X to run perfectly, you'll need two 8800GTXs or possibly two R600s when they're released.
Related resources
December 5, 2006 1:07:34 AM

I dont want to disrupt your master plan, but don't you think they'll just send you another GTS even if you manage to unconspiciously burn the original one? I'm sure they have more of those in stock ...

An RMA generally involves sending in your faulty card and receiving a working card of the same model, or higher model if none of your original one was available (fat chance of that with the 880GTS).
Otherwise it would be called a "return" policy, and this would not involve any fuxxoring of the graphics card.

So why don't you just lower the viewing distance (or whatever it's called in that game) on your FS-X :)  a little. Just pretend you're short sighted.
Short sighted pilots need training too.

Good luck
December 5, 2006 1:34:27 AM

You know, there is a step-up program. Look in to that some more.
December 5, 2006 1:56:01 AM

CPU is holding you back more than the GPU-

This is AMD related, but same for conroe, Firing Squad review-

"Even in a flight sim like LOMAC, the GeForce 8800 GTX is CPU-bound with pretty much all of AMD’s CPUs, including the FX-62 at lower resolutions. Even at 1920x1200 performance is within 7% of the frame rate we saw at 1280x1024 with the GeForce 8800 GTX/FX-62 combination.

As a result, there are many cases where slower GPUs like the GeForce 8800 GTS are able to outperform the GeForce 8800 GTX if it’s paired with the right processor. This is something you’ll want to keep in mind if you’re into flight sims, this titles are more CPU-bound than other games we test with, so pairing the GTX with a fast CPU is critical to ensuring optimal performance.

The GeForce 8800 GTS is also CPU-bound with the X2 3800+ and 4200+ "

Full review- http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/geforce_8800_gtx_gt...

Somewhere else does the same with x6800 and the cards with FSX, and same results, very tight for both gpu's with the same processors.
December 5, 2006 2:39:53 AM

Quote:
I was thinking my two options: Either get a GTX and see if it can cope with that, or wait for R600 which should be better than both the 8800's...


a little bit off topic here but is this statement based on the hard evidence or just a opinion? :) 
December 5, 2006 3:01:29 AM

I talked to them on the phone, and if I go down there myself they 'll take the burnt one back and give me another so long as it's as expensive or more expensive than the previous model so as to keep accountants happy. No company likes giving money back, but instead they'll get some more so, evreyone's happy. I'll confirm that once more since the store is in another city and I'll have to travel for that but if possible it's worth it. As for CPU bound, well my 6600 Core 2 Duo stays at about 50% during Flight Sim so... it can't be that...
So, any way to "kill" the vga?
December 5, 2006 3:19:39 AM

simple!!! overclock!!


but i think you should wait to DX 10 to see what happens with the performance
December 5, 2006 3:24:01 AM

just out of curiosity... is Flight Sim making use of the second cpu core at all?... if its not using the second core, and youre having 50% of your total cpu being used (1 full core)... id say then that your cpu was infact the bottleneck

but, if its only using 25% total cpu usage (50% of one core), then your cpu wouldnt be the bottleneck.
December 5, 2006 3:26:37 AM

I agree with that thought
December 5, 2006 3:29:47 AM

It's about 50% of one core and 25-30 of the other... I tried oc the CPU, and also used ASUS's NOS (non-delay auto overclocking under load) and it didn't do any difference...
I also tried overclocking the GTS as far as I could, and it did make some little difference but not worth the strain it underwent...
December 5, 2006 3:33:08 AM

well if you wanna kill the card, i have a lot of ideas, you can put the card in a pot and cook, but please, if you make this, try to make a movie
December 5, 2006 3:42:10 AM

Quote:
well if you wanna kill the card, i have a lot of ideas, you can put the card in a pot and cook, but please, if you make this, try to make a movie


methinks that would be a bit obvous and they wouldn't even send a replacement for it.
December 5, 2006 3:45:15 AM

Yeah, you see the point of the post here is not that I have so much money that I kill brand new 8800 GTS's for fun but that I DON'T have that much money and I want to kill it and make it look like failure and have it changed... Any other ideas than cooking? :lol: 
December 5, 2006 3:45:40 AM

Quote:
I tried oc the CPU, and also used ASUS's NOS (non-delay auto overclocking under load) and it didn't do any difference...


never oc a cpu using win apps, they all stink, tweak bios instead
December 5, 2006 3:51:52 AM

Quote:
... I'm afraid of tinkering with electronic components, that could burn the whole system...


..and your profile lists you as a computer engineering student.

It must be a totally crap course or you're gonna fail badly, especially if you can't even come up with any of the many ways to purposely kill a gpu on your own.
December 5, 2006 3:53:35 AM

Quote:
Whoever told you SLI only improves performance by 20% was probably only talking of a worst case scenario. If you really want Flight Simulator X to run perfectly, you'll need two 8800GTXs or possibly two R600s when they're released.


Consult the VGA charts and do a benchmark comparison with SLI vs Non-SLI. You'll RARELY find a 20% improvement. This coming from a former SLI user.

Furthermore Flight Sim X takes almost no advantage of SLI from my benchmarks and benchmarks across the net. Microsoft can't write a fluid game to save their farking ass.

Even furthermore, 1 8800 GTX is sufficient for running Flight Sim X at high res and settings. I know because I'm doing it. 1280x1024, max FSAA, and high settings... runs at about 35fps.
December 5, 2006 3:55:54 AM

im not sure if you have already (unless you already mentioned it)... but what about just checking into the stores return policy?... if you still have the receipt, and the store allows product returns... you could just do that, get your money back, and invest in the 8800 GTX... but, if the store doesnt allow returns, then... i dunno.
December 5, 2006 4:00:21 AM

Quote:
... I'm afraid of tinkering with electronic components, that could burn the whole system...


..and your profile lists you as a computer engineering student.

It must be a totally crap course or you're gonna fail badly, especially if you can't even come up with any of the many ways to purposely kill a gpu on your own.

So instead of irony, how about you actually helped out and shared one of the so many ways you have in mind. Because being an computer engineer, I do know how many things can go wrong if I cut a cable on the PCB of the VGA card...
December 5, 2006 4:01:31 AM

I don't know if this will work, but soak the card in water and let it dry (without putting it back in your PC). It probably won't work, but you'll have to make sure that it's completely dry or else they might notice and not give you a refund.
December 5, 2006 4:02:55 AM

Quote:
Whoever told you SLI only improves performance by 20% was probably only talking of a worst case scenario. If you really want Flight Simulator X to run perfectly, you'll need two 8800GTXs or possibly two R600s when they're released.


Consult the VGA charts and do a benchmark comparison with SLI vs Non-SLI. You'll RARELY find a 20% improvement. This coming from a former SLI user.

Furthermore Flight Sim X takes almost no advantage of SLI from my benchmarks and benchmarks across the net. Microsoft can't write a fluid game to save their farking ass.

Even furthermore, 1 8800 GTX is sufficient for running Flight Sim X at high res and settings. I know because I'm doing it. 1280x1024, max FSAA, and high settings... runs at about 35fps.

I also am former SLI user (2 x 7800 GTX's) and I found out what a marketing trick SLI is... And completely gave up on multi-GPU technologies, cause only thing they do is eat up mass amounts of money and produce extreme heat...
So GTX it is then? Your opinion as an owner really counts for me. What are your system specs? You get 35 fps steadily? Did you try with bad weather?
a b U Graphics card
December 5, 2006 4:12:02 AM

Quote:
Whoever told you SLI only improves performance by 20% was probably only talking of a worst case scenario. If you really want Flight Simulator X to run perfectly, you'll need two 8800GTXs or possibly two R600s when they're released.


Consult the VGA charts and do a benchmark comparison with SLI vs Non-SLI. You'll RARELY find a 20% improvement. This coming from a former SLI user.

Furthermore Flight Sim X takes almost no advantage of SLI from my benchmarks and benchmarks across the net. Microsoft can't write a fluid game to save their farking ass.

Even furthermore, 1 8800 GTX is sufficient for running Flight Sim X at high res and settings. I know because I'm doing it. 1280x1024, max FSAA, and high settings... runs at about 35fps.

I also am former SLI user (2 x 7800 GTX's) and I found out what a marketing trick SLI is... And completely gave up on multi-GPU technologies, cause only thing they do is eat up mass amounts of money and produce extreme heat...
So GTX it is then? Your opinion as an owner really counts for me. What are your system specs? You get 35 fps steadily? Did you try with bad weather?


the heat is for sure and as far as anything above 12x10
well the same.
December 5, 2006 4:21:54 AM

Quote:
I don't know if this will work, but soak the card in water and let it dry (without putting it back in your PC). It probably won't work, but you'll have to make sure that it's completely dry or else they might notice and not give you a refund.


well, just do that will not damage the card, only if you do that with pc on the card can die
December 5, 2006 5:17:31 AM

Hehe, actually if you soak a card in water and then let it dry thoroughly before using it, unless it's very ionized water - chances are the card will work (although I'm not willing to test any of my hardware that way).
I think Tom's (or some other team) had an entire rig submerged in water and oil and it ran fairly stable (certainly didnt burn) ... just need to make sure water is distilled. Talking about water cooling :) 


The easiest way to damage the card is to burn it. Remove the heatsink and run it that way. It should damage itself sufficiently before your OS even has a chance to load. Leave it running for 10 minutes if you really want to be sure. Then put the heatsink back on, put on your outraged pants, and call the tech support saying "I can't get a video signal".

I'm a little dissapointed tho. Since I went through computer engineering myself, I can tell you that not even halfway into my freshmans year I knew very well how to break stuff :)  Gotta show some creativity there pal, employers dont just pay you to to write poorly commented code and resort to the ultimate lazyness in embedded systems design for all your trivial DSP/whatever needs : FPGAs. Oh wait, they do ....
December 5, 2006 5:21:04 AM

I thought about that, but the heatsink on the 8800 isn't that easily removed without trace... I prefer scratching some PCB connections on less than obvious areas and see what happens

PS Just got off the phone, the tech support said that if the card is found faulty, then I can get whatever else I like if I pay the price difference, makes no difference to them anyway. So, I'm starting the destruction at once. I'll keep you posted
December 5, 2006 5:25:03 AM

Not that i advocate this sorta thing.....

Electrostatic discharge will probably do it...
if your an engineering student of any calibre you should be able to figure that out.....

you could always check out another thread on here titled "Worst PC Screwups" for ideas......
December 5, 2006 6:06:46 AM

The r600 is better than the G80? Thats interesting, I'd love to see the benchmarks you have!

Or is this just a baseless statement you picked out the air?
December 5, 2006 7:10:46 AM

You're not serious, surely? What do you think happens when you do this kind of thing...it comes straight out of The Man's pocket and nobody gets hurt? Sure, the rich people take the hit, that's how they got rich. The people who pay for this kind of theft are the kind of people who are reading this forum. The kind of people who buy from stores that sell 8800s. The people you're asking to help you screw the store so the store can screw them to replace the lost money.

I'm perplexed why nobody else has mentioned this. But it's very uncool, any way you slice it.
December 5, 2006 7:18:00 AM

seriously, 8800gts is the second best card on earth, if thats not good for you!!!! i dont know what to say!!!!
December 5, 2006 7:22:07 AM

Quote:
You're not serious, surely? What do you think happens when you do this kind of thing...it comes straight out of The Man's pocket and nobody gets hurt? Sure, the rich people take the hit, that's how they got rich. The people who pay for this kind of theft are the kind of people who are reading this forum. The kind of people who buy from stores that sell 8800s. The people you're asking to help you screw the store so the store can screw them to replace the lost money.

I'm perplexed why nobody else has mentioned this. But it's very uncool, any way you slice it.


ROFL God bless you you made me laugh a lot this morning. You obviously live in another reality. I paid this VGA normally and it came out defective. Can you prove to me I did something to it? Can you prove to me that it was OK when I took it out of the box? Get a life man. Your opinions are at least naive. And that's why you oblviously would vote for Bush again and again and sit there in the USA in your paradise, with your friends the corporations. Message recieved about you, so you can keep on rambling. And please. Because this is getting out of hand. Thank you all for your posts, the subject is closed.
December 5, 2006 7:56:28 AM

overclock = bad idea
they will see it, you crank up the Mhz, the card crashes and then you can't lower the Mhz, if they manage to check the card in store they will notice it's higher clocked
a better idea: unplug the cooler, when the card is overheated, replug the cooler and go to the store :twisted:
beware: this is a evil plan!! I'm not taking any responsibility if you get your ass kicked! :wink:
December 5, 2006 7:58:19 AM

but is not my idea heheh
December 5, 2006 8:01:36 AM

Seriously large cap... Fully charged. One lead (-) on +12, one lead (+)on gnd... Try not to fry yourself, but should kill most any device.

Put back into sacrificial system, try to boot... If you get farther than BIOS, repeat....
December 5, 2006 8:11:59 AM

Quote:
You're not serious, surely? What do you think happens when you do this kind of thing...it comes straight out of The Man's pocket and nobody gets hurt? Sure, the rich people take the hit, that's how they got rich. The people who pay for this kind of theft are the kind of people who are reading this forum. The kind of people who buy from stores that sell 8800s. The people you're asking to help you screw the store so the store can screw them to replace the lost money.

I'm perplexed why nobody else has mentioned this. But it's very uncool, any way you slice it.


ROFL God bless you you made me laugh a lot this morning. You obviously live in another reality. I paid this VGA normally and it came out defective. Can you prove to me I did something to it? Can you prove to me that it was OK when I took it out of the box? Get a life man. Your opinions are at least naive. And that's why you oblviously would vote for Bush again and again and sit there in the USA in your paradise, with your friends the corporations. Message recieved about you, so you can keep on rambling. And please. Because this is getting out of hand. Thank you all for your posts, the subject is closed.

I was about to help you, but I changed my mind after reading this post of yours. Thanks for driving up the price for the rest of us honest people! And thanks angminas for pointing this out! I think your the one living in a different reality, and if I'm wrong and everyone else cheats does that make it ok to cheat? And i bet you would be too much of a ***** to put down my country to my face, no you hide behind a keyboard and a monitor like a little *****. Did anyone here put down your country? Whats your problem?

Oh and by the way... if you want help with your problem read this. Yeah, i know it's a gtx but you should get it from there. I'm helping you cause i'm sure your too much of a moron to be able to put something simple like this to use.
December 5, 2006 8:59:35 AM

You sir are a thief. I know everyone wins, yeh right.. thief thief thief thief. You have a lot of balls coming on this forum and asking how to defraud. I was reading this thread wondering when someone was going to call you on it. I am sure this makes you laugh because you have zero morals, and you are a thief. Oh yeh, you are poor and have to do this, I never had any 7800's in SLI and don't have anything close to your current setup. So clearly, you are not poor, you are just a sc*mbag trying to get over
December 5, 2006 9:14:40 AM

Just take a hairclip, and shove it in there!
a b U Graphics card
December 5, 2006 9:33:23 AM

Sir,I as a proud American, can feel honored to defend my country against worthless frauds such as yourself. Being truthful and honest doesnt make me live in another reality .Please get off your blame the USA for anything (including defrauding your local businesses) This is pathetic.Stay OUT of THG
December 5, 2006 10:33:14 AM

You want to destroy such a great card just because it doesnt run your
crap unoptimized game well enough? :roll:
You know how many people would be happy with that card (myself incl.)?
Damn spoilt kid. I bet you don't have to work to pay for your pc.

How's about lowering some detail levels or options? :roll:

Ever thought about taking it back to the store and explaining that you
think it is faulty as it's not getting the performance it should, and ask if
you could return it and buy a gtx instead?

You come here asking for advice how to do it even when you are supposed
to be a computer engineering student, you can't even think of such things
like electric discharge?

u fail. plz die. now. :evil: 
December 5, 2006 10:45:59 AM

I hope he gets caught and has to eat the card, or better yet, stuff it somewhere.
December 5, 2006 10:48:55 AM

Quote:
I hope he gets caught and has to eat the card, or better yet, stuff it somewhere.

Yeah, that would be ironic - but deserved :twisted:
December 5, 2006 11:31:13 AM

Quote:
Hi all
I'll be brief. After setting up my signature system, and after the initial "I got one of the first 8800's and I'm the king of tha hood" stuff settled, I kinda found out the GTS isn't quite enough for me. Let me explain:
What I use the PC for is driving and flight simulators. As far as driving sims are concerned, the GTS plays everything and asks for more. I mostly drive in GT Legends and GTR 2 and there it just can't get any better. But when it comes to Flight Simulator X, well that's another story. Maxxed out evertything, I get about 16-20 fps at best, when looking at storm clouds and sea...
So, I was thinking my two options: Either get a GTX and see if it can cope with that, or wait for R600 which should be better than both the 8800's...
SLI is not an option for me, too much money for 20% performance gain, it's just not worth it.
In order to get the GTX though, I somehow gotta kill the GTS and RMA it, pay the difference and buy a GTX from the same store. Its 2 weeks old, and I wouldn't like to sell it; I would lose a ton of money.
It's either that or wait for R600 and then kill the GTS (3 year warranty). Getting the GTX now is my first option since I just can't stand the wait with no release dates, prices and performance announced yet for R600.
So anyone, please tell me a way to absolutely undeniably make the VGA card burn down, without the rest of my system doing so, so I can return it and have it RMA'ed beyond doubt. Any software killing the BIOS or something would be best since I'm afraid of tinkering with electronic components, that could burn the whole system...


What a Sc**Bag u are!
December 5, 2006 11:40:42 AM

Quote:
You want to destroy such a great card just because it doesnt run your
crap unoptimized game well enough? :roll:
You know how many people would be happy with that card (myself incl.)?
Damn spoilt kid. I bet you don't have to work to pay for your pc.

How's about lowering some detail levels or options? :roll:

Ever thought about taking it back to the store and explaining that you
think it is faulty as it's not getting the performance it should, and ask if
you could return it and buy a gtx instead?

You come here asking for advice how to do it even when you are supposed
to be a computer engineering student, you can't even think of such things
like electric discharge?

u fail. plz die. now. :evil: 


I was quite surprise to see so many people giving advice on how
to kill the card. Nice to see the tide has changed - funny how that
works - Now, someone looks like a jerk - if they start giving
advice on how to destroy the card.
My hat is off to RivalNeighbour and enqminas for stepping up.
It's so easy to follow along.

I was an computer engineering student - I guess you failed the
ethics course. But - I would following this guy's advice - and
complain to the store that you think it's not working right -
if all else fails - sell it yourself - include free installation. Someone
who wants to upgrade - and doesn't like to open a case - will pay
more for the card.
December 5, 2006 11:49:35 AM

Quote:
Hi all
I'll be brief. After setting up my signature system, and after the initial "I got one of the first 8800's and I'm the king of tha hood" stuff settled, I kinda found out the GTS isn't quite enough for me. Let me explain:
What I use the PC for is driving and flight simulators. As far as driving sims are concerned, the GTS plays everything and asks for more. I mostly drive in GT Legends and GTR 2 and there it just can't get any better. But when it comes to Flight Simulator X, well that's another story. Maxxed out evertything, I get about 16-20 fps at best, when looking at storm clouds and sea...
So, I was thinking my two options: Either get a GTX and see if it can cope with that, or wait for R600 which should be better than both the 8800's...
SLI is not an option for me, too much money for 20% performance gain, it's just not worth it.
In order to get the GTX though, I somehow gotta kill the GTS and RMA it, pay the difference and buy a GTX from the same store. Its 2 weeks old, and I wouldn't like to sell it; I would lose a ton of money.
It's either that or wait for R600 and then kill the GTS (3 year warranty). Getting the GTX now is my first option since I just can't stand the wait with no release dates, prices and performance announced yet for R600.
So anyone, please tell me a way to absolutely undeniably make the VGA card burn down, without the rest of my system doing so, so I can return it and have it RMA'ed beyond doubt. Any software killing the BIOS or something would be best since I'm afraid of tinkering with electronic components, that could burn the whole system...

The store should have a 14 or 30 day money back guarantee.
December 5, 2006 12:03:49 PM

Well I don't know about RMAing, but I got my parents to buy me a new graphics card a year or two ago by messing it up. I just ripped off the biggest capacitor on the PCB and I was like look mom it won't start I need another one. It was a 440MX so...come on. It was time for an upgrade and my parents are bitches about that kind of stuff.
December 5, 2006 12:14:35 PM

Quote:
Well I don't know about RMAing, but I got my parents to buy me a new graphics card a year or two ago by messing it up. I just ripped off the biggest capacitor on the PCB and I was like look mom it won't start I need another one. It was a 440MX so...come on. It was time for an upgrade and my parents are bitches about that kind of stuff.


You have a pretty nice system from your parents -
and how do u reward them - by lying to them and ripping them off.

Have you ever considered talking to them - telling them you need
a new graphics board - and you're willng to earn it through chores -
better grades in school - whatever! And they are the bitches!!!
What does that make you.
December 5, 2006 12:14:53 PM

About FSX... when I see the commercials on TV I can't help but notice the low frame rates... and you better believe Microsoft is running it on the fastest system available. That commercial was enough to convince me that FSX was designed for future systems... not current ones.
December 5, 2006 12:29:32 PM

You could always OC & disable the fan/cooling mechanism then reconnect it after it toasts. If it is only 2 weeks old though why don't you just return it & say it didn't perform fast enough & exchange it for the gtx? You may have to hassle with them but it should work out. Also take into account its around the holidays so a lot of stores have extended their return periods
a b U Graphics card
December 5, 2006 12:52:17 PM

Quote:
Well I don't know about RMAing, but I got my parents to buy me a new graphics card a year or two ago by messing it up. I just ripped off the biggest capacitor on the PCB and I was like look mom it won't start I need another one. It was a 440MX so...come on. It was time for an upgrade and my parents are bitches about that kind of stuff.


You have a pretty nice system from your parents -
and how do u reward them - by lying to them and ripping them off.

Have you ever considered talking to them - telling them you need
a new graphics board - and you're willng to earn it through chores -
better grades in school - whatever! And they are the bitches!!!
What does that make you.


yes he sure seems ungrateful.
that is what is wrong with this world.
!