Is Intel behind the AMD/nVidia subpeonas?

BaronMatrix

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I thought it amazing that Intel can charge $1000+ for CPUs but then GPUs that usually debut on the high end at half of that could be investigated for price-fixing.

Intel has complete control over X86 pricing and has used it to it's advantage to lower the ASPs of every major semi manuf (including their own).

A recent story at The Register thinks that an arm of Intel is definitely behind it as Intel believes it has an answer to G80/R600.

Check it out and leave your opinions.


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/12/08/intel_larrabee_gpgpu/
 

TabrisDarkPeace

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I thought it amazing that AMD can charge $1000+ for CPUs but then GPUs that usually debut on the high end at half of that could be investigated for price-fixing.

AMD has complete control over BaronMatrix and has used 'it' to their disadvantage to lower the ASPs of every major semi manuf (including their own).

A recent story at The Register thinks that a voice of AMD is definitely behind it as AMD believes it has an answer to G80/Intels NGGPUMA.

Check it out and leave your opinions.


http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=1387506#1387506

:p
 

gOJDO

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BaronMatrix

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I thought it amazing that AMD can charge $1000+ for CPUs but then GPUs that usually debut on the high end at half of that could be investigated for price-fixing.

AMD has complete control over BaronMatrix and has used 'it' to their disadvantage to lower the ASPs of every major semi manuf (including their own).

A recent story at The Register thinks that a voice of AMD is definitely behind it as AMD believes it has an answer to G80/Intels NGGPUMA.

Check it out and leave your opinions.


http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=1387506#1387506

:p

All hail the duopoly!!!
 

r0ck

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Executives of the company are also alleged to have had meetings and conversations to discuss pricing of graphics processing units and cards in the US.
Overpricing and fixing prices aren't the same thing.

Please STFU about the stupid duopoly when you constantly brag about buying the inferior Quad FX :twisted:
 

BaronMatrix

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Executives of the company are also alleged to have had meetings and conversations to discuss pricing of graphics processing units and cards in the US.
Overpricing and fixing prices aren't the same thing.

Please STFU about the stupid duopoly when you constantly brag about buying the inferior Quad FX :twisted:

Not!

Price fixing is an agreement between business competitors selling the same product or service regarding its pricing. In general, it is an agreement intended to ultimately push the price of a product as high as possible, leading to profits for all the sellers. Price-fixing can also involve any agreement to fix, peg, discount or stabilize prices. The principal feature is any agreement on price, whether express or implied. For the buyer, meanwhile, the practice results in a phenomenon similar to price gouging.
 

niz

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The story says Intel wants to take down AMD and Nvidia with graphics technology, not sue their pants off.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33661

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36258
The problem isn't them overpricing GPUs, it's them price fixing.

Wow, you actually left an opinion? Price-fixing refers to artificially inflating the prices.

The key part you missed is that price-fixing refers to when AMD and Nvidia have secretly agreed with each other not to drop prices below a certain point. Thats price fixing and illegal. Price-fixing is not just companies artificially inflating prices on their own. Thats normal and legal business which all companies do.
 

casewhite

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Given Intel's marketing conduct , they would have far more to lose in pushing an antitrust investigation. People who live in glass houses don't throw rocks. The antitrust investigation began long before ATI was acquired by AMD. It became easier when AMD acquired ATI because one of the conspirators suddenly had a US headquarters. Before it was Canada (not overly cooperative with DOJ because of the Microsoft sellout) and Taiwan (cooperation non-existant).
 

r0ck

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Price fixing is an agreement between business competitors selling the same product or service regarding its pricing. In general, it is an agreement intended to ultimately push the price of a product as high as possible, leading to profits for all the sellers. Price-fixing can also involve any agreement to fix, peg, discount or stabilize prices. The principal feature is any agreement on price, whether express or implied. For the buyer, meanwhile, the practice results in a phenomenon similar to price gouging.

Gouging is not the same as price fixing.

Case closed.
 

BaronMatrix

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Price fixing is an agreement between business competitors selling the same product or service regarding its pricing. In general, it is an agreement intended to ultimately push the price of a product as high as possible, leading to profits for all the sellers. Price-fixing can also involve any agreement to fix, peg, discount or stabilize prices. The principal feature is any agreement on price, whether express or implied. For the buyer, meanwhile, the practice results in a phenomenon similar to price gouging.

Gouging is not the same as price fixing.

Case closed.

WHy must you get off-topic when your own quote - a reproduction of the WikiPedia definition I already knew - refers to both artificially inflating AND artificially lowering them?

The question is with Intel trying to get back into the stand-alone market is having an "arm" push for this a purposeful attack?

Core 2 pricing shows pegging with AMD being forced to drop prices, though I doubt Intel consulted them.

As far as graphics, ONLY the highest end cards ever break $500. Most standalone GPUs are under $200. Lookign at Newegg, you can see that 202 CONSUMER GPUs are under $200 and everyone knows that right now ONLY the 8800GTX is over $500. And the above $300 area is a good deal FireGL and Quadro.
 

BaronMatrix

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SUP, when all of these law suits and investigations are over, will it lead to cheaper GFX cards and CPUs?

That's a good question. I don't think it should. Neither one was totally outrageous. I mean everyone could afford a PC as of a few years ago and a compact car from Company X is less than a luxury car from Company X. I mean sure SLI would be super great at $400 but then it is if you buy two lower end cards.
 

BigCharb

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Neither one was totally outrageous. I mean everyone could afford a PC as of a few years ago and a compact car from Company X is less than a luxury car from Company X. I mean sure SLI would be super great at $400 but then it is if you buy two lower end cards.

WELL, u guyz in the states have it easy, here in Canada an 8800GTX is 800 bucks at least. i wish they were 400.

l8er :)
 

hacker91

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keep complaining about prices...remember back to the mid 90s when a 4MB mem mod was $200??. These prices are insanley low today. I am far from rich and i consider the prices low. Now vid cards is a diff story they are over priced on the highend but no where near price fixed. Want price fixing...look at Gasoline prices. every single gas station where I live is the same price, not a penny different. The oil companies are making insane quarterly profits as well. They arent just price fixing they are gouging. Exxon/mobile reported a 3rd Q profit of 10 Billion. And say they cant lower prices...if $2.00 a gallon =10billion a Q then $1.00 a gallon= 5billion....anyone else see the math... profit is whats left after ALL revenue R&D Payroll and expenses are taken out...Now answer me what in the hell does a company need with that high of profits? At the expense of the Countrys inflation and causing higher poverty levels.
 

tmac

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Given Intel's marketing conduct , they would have far more to lose in pushing an antitrust investigation. People who live in glass houses don't throw rocks. The antitrust investigation began long before ATI was acquired by AMD. It became easier when AMD acquired ATI because one of the conspirators suddenly had a US headquarters. Before it was Canada (not overly cooperative with DOJ because of the Microsoft sellout) and Taiwan (cooperation non-existant).

If there's price fixing with GPU's, it won't stop there. The CPU's will be
next, AMD will make sure of it (if they are innocent). Baron, how does that help Intel?


and everyone knows that right now ONLY the 8800GTX is over $500.

I wonder what the R600 will run?
 

SMU_Pony

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Now answer me what in the hell does a company need with that high of profits? At the expense of the Countrys inflation and causing higher poverty levels.

The point of a company is to make money. Period. They may do other things as their owners/stockholders see fit, but that is the primary goal. What do you consider a fair profit? Only $1 bill? How about only $5 million? Heck, why not revoke all profits and dump them into a general govt fund? (why do so few people seem to grasp the concept of capitalism?)

Fact: The US Govt makes several times over what the gas companies make for each gallon of gas sold. Most European govt's make even more than that. I think the Government is tax-gouging us on gasoline...
 

IcY18

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Problem is their the govt is able to spend more money than it can bring in, even though they seem to make a jabilaziollion dollars
 

BaronMatrix

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Neither one was totally outrageous. I mean everyone could afford a PC as of a few years ago and a compact car from Company X is less than a luxury car from Company X. I mean sure SLI would be super great at $400 but then it is if you buy two lower end cards.

WELL, u guyz in the states have it easy, here in Canada an 8800GTX is 800 bucks at least. i wish they were 400.

l8er :)

Wow, I would hope that ATi would be at least a little cheaper being based in Canada. Those import takes can be a killer.
 

BaronMatrix

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Wow, this is abit of a misleading post.... your title and theme would try to suggest the linked articles implicates Intel in creating the current price fixing investigation, both govt. and private, allegations against nVidia and AMD/ATI.

Actually the Register (www.theregister.co.uk) suggested this and I thought it was interesting.
 

r0ck

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Actually the Register (www.theregister.co.uk) suggested this and I thought it was interesting.

Please quote where they said that Intel is out to secretly sue the pants off of both AMD and Nvidia.
 

BGP_Spook

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First, my response to the InQ report, originally posted on another forum. (BGP Spook = BGP_Spook)

I don't know what to think of this.

I did some looking around and only a little more than four years ago the newest top end cards cost ~$400 (Geforce 4 Ti4600) and the latest top end card costs ~$600 (Geforce 8 8800GTX), that is a 50% price increase in four years.

On the other hand, the dollar has lost value during that time and the cost of producing new video cards has gone up.

There may be some grounds for the allegations, duopoly's(or near duopoly's) are always tricky since neither competitor really wants to lower prices.

It could be entirely do to market forces without any collusion at all.

I will add that every new high-end card released from ATI or Nvidia is always introduced at about the same price point, call it "the high-end price." It used to be $400 USD several years ago but it has been creeping up to $600 USD now.

It is the the same price regardless of which company seems to have the best high end card.
The rest of the cards then slid in price as the performance decreases. Although, it seems that some mid-range video cards have been floating around the same price point for the last year and a half.

I am pretty sure it is the consistency of the introductory price points(not just at the high end?) that is under investigation.

-----------------------------------------

Aside from Larrabee Development Group and by extension Intel choosing this point in time to enter the news by accelerating their endeavor I don't see any connection.

The only scenario where I can see Intel being behind this push is an attempt to under cut AMD's price margins for video cards. Yet, as someone pointed out, Intel was, apparently, already entering the discrete video card market before the ATI purchase, however I don't know when the investigation first started.

-----------------------------------------
@everyone:
It would greatly be appreciated if the source of any quote used is given along with the selected quote. This is especially true if the source is not quoted in entirety, as readers might want to read the rest of the source.

Not!


Price fixing is an agreement between business competitors selling the same product or service regarding its pricing. In general, it is an agreement intended to ultimately push the price of a product as high as possible, leading to profits for all the sellers. Price-fixing can also involve any agreement to fix, peg, discount or stabilize prices. The principal feature is any agreement on price, whether express or implied. For the buyer, meanwhile, the practice results in a phenomenon similar to price gouging.
Source:?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

From wiki:
Under U.S. law, price fixing is only illegal if it is intentional and comes about via communication or agreement between firms or individuals. It is not illegal for a firm to copy the price movements of a de facto market leader called price leadership, which has been seen to be the case in markets for breakfast cereals and cigarettes. But informal agreements or unspoken agreements to fix price also can violate the antitrust laws.
 

NMDante

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Actually the Register (www.theregister.co.uk) suggested this and I thought it was interesting.

Please quote where they said that Intel is out to secretly sue the pants off of both AMD and Nvidia.

Not so much sue, but it is looking like an internal(?) development team or something from Intel started this thing.

Register story

The problem is that BM mistakenly took that story to have anything involving the subpeonas that were handed to AMD/ATI and nVidia, since there was not one thing about Larrabee claiming anything that the subpeonas were for, price-fixing.

In fact, the story linked above and in BM's original post just talks about how Intel is interested in getting into the GPU sector and create it's own GPUs, nothing about any DoJ investigations was mentioned in the Register story.