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New Core Duo system running a bit hot

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December 10, 2006 8:55:57 PM

Hi guys,

New poster here. Firstly, could I just thank everyone for the info posted on these forums. They have proved to be a great resource over the past few weeks.

I finally upgraded to a new system last week, but since the install, I have found that the CPU temp has been a little high.

Firstly, here's the PC specs:

Case: Thermaltake Eureka
Motherboard: Asus P5W DH Delux
CPU: Core Duo E6600
Cooler: Scythe Ninja Plus (with the fan)
RAM: Corsair PC4200 2x1GB (VS1GB553D2)
Gfx: Gainward 8800GTS
HD: WD 4x250GB
PSU: Akasa 400W

I went for 4HDs as I do a lot of video editing, and it's always useful to have the extra space. They run quite cool (around 36°C).

Here's a couple of pictures to save me over-explaining. I know the cable management is crap at the moment... I've left it as-is as I'm pulling the board in-and-out at the moment.



The Problem

The CPU temp seems to be running too high, compared to some of the results posted in this forum. I'm recording these temps in Core Temp / Intel's TAT (always read the same).

Ambient temperature is 21°C.

At 2.4GHz, the idle temp is around 42-43°C
the load temp is around 55-56°C

Yesterday, I overclocked to 3GHz, and the idle temp rose to about 52-54°C. The load temp shot up to anywhere between 68-75°C.

note: The load was set to 100% using Intel's TAT. Yesterday I played Call of Duty 2, and Need for Speed MW, and after around 25 minutes, the system froze, requiring a restart.

The system is only 2 days old, but I dont think I effectively applied the thermal grease. I used the solution provided with the Scythe Ninja, and applied quite a thick layer onto the CPU.

I have purchased some ArcticClean solution, and some Arctic Silver 5, which should arrive within the next few days.

with regards to the game crashing, I was originally concerned that the GFX gpu was getting too hot. However, setting the fan to 100% keeps the temp nice and low, even in game, so I cannot see it being that. I am now thinking that the CPU is getting too hot during gameplay, although I'm not sure on this :) 

My question is, considering the way that I have applied the current thermal solution, would applying the AS5 (correctly) reduce the temperatures by much? I would really like to be able to run at (at least) 3GHz, but I am worried about the high temps. What speed could I be aiming for with this setup?


If you need me to post any other info up, just let me know!


Thanks for any help. :) 
-Mase

More about : core duo system running bit hot

December 11, 2006 7:49:26 PM

Regarding the thermal compound, you need to remove it, thoroughly clean both surfaces, and re-apply a drop the size of a GRAIN OF RICE only.

You will get a much better dissipation of heat this way, and your PC will run cooler! :D 
December 11, 2006 8:06:58 PM

Quote:
applied quite a thick layer onto the CPU.

Yep, what 31computers said. You probably have too much on there. It only takes a little.
Related resources
December 11, 2006 8:44:33 PM

Quote:
applied quite a thick layer onto the CPU.

Yep, what 31computers said. You probably have too much on there. It only takes a little.
Read the instructions on AS website for additional info:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appinstruct/as5/ins_as5...

Good luck and have fun! :D 
December 11, 2006 11:08:43 PM

Great, thanks for that.

The AS5 should be here tomorrow, so I'll whip the mobo out tomorrow and have get everything re-applied. I'll post the new speeds when I'm done :) 

Cheers
December 11, 2006 11:33:33 PM

I have the exact same problem as this person and I have reapplied the arctic silver multiple times and the temps remain the same. Are there any other things to think of? Also the comment "grain of rice" contradicts what arctic silver says. So which is it?
December 11, 2006 11:45:56 PM

I used the AS website recommended method of a thin ribbon and do not exceed 45C under full load with a Zalman 9500 running full rpm.

The rice pellet idea is for single core intel cpu's
December 12, 2006 12:42:04 AM

There are a lot of theories on how to get the best results. This is what I know:

- Thinner is better. The only reason you apply the paste is to fill microscopic pinholes on the surface of your CPU die / heatsink. It seems like a lot of people (me included when I first started building PCs) think "gee, more thermal paste must = better thermal transfer!" but that's not the case. :D 

- Clean your CPU/Heatsink carefully and be sure you use 70% or greater rubbing alcohol (or Arctic Silver's special cleaning solution, which I believe is just rubbing alcohol).

- Don't touch your CPU/HSF on exposed parts after you clean them. The oils in your skin can interfere with thermal transfer.

- If you want to get additional cooling, you can sand the bottom of your HSF smooth (called lapping). Here's a lapping kit:
http://www.easypckits.com/products/premiumlk/

Here's a review of said lapping kit:
http://www.maximumcpu.net/reviews/easypclappingkit3.php

You're not going to get an extreme boost in cooling from lapping, but it doesn't cost a lot either (I believe you can usually shave up to 5c off temps).

Anyway, you have the same CPU? Are you using stock cooler?
a b K Overclocking
December 12, 2006 1:01:50 AM

I like the way you set out your post, pics and all. I think we should make a sticky regarding all these high C2D temp posts, heaps of them appear every day. And its nearly always the same few problems. Oh and yea, correct application of AS5 does reduce temps, even more so over time as it "cures". I lost 10C just from the curing process. Thats another sticky suggestion, AS5.
December 12, 2006 2:12:57 AM

Good point about curing time. I believe the curing time for AS5 is 100 hours.
December 12, 2006 2:31:29 AM

The cooler I'm using is the scythe infinity. Also I tried making a thin line down the middle and then at first when I tried to turn my computer on it was an astonishing 90+ degrees Celsius! I messed around and got my load temps to about 50 depending on how much and 40 at idle. I don't know if this is good or not but these are the best temps I've had so far. For killerspam, you might also want to try and dust your heatsink because that is one of the ways I got my temps down.
December 12, 2006 2:39:23 AM

Well, if your temps were 90c something else must have been going wrong. Something like your HSF not making a good connection with the CPU heatspreader. It's important that they are snug against eachother, and you are supposed to twist the HSF a little once it is resting on the CPU heatspreader (which spreads the AS5 over pinholes on HSF/CPU).
December 12, 2006 3:18:01 AM

I remember now that that was one of the things I did. I didn't think much of it because I usually remember to twist it.
December 12, 2006 3:43:10 AM

I would just like you to disregard anything I have said prior to this post. I must be terrible at cooling my cpu because I can not seem to keep my cpu cool. This is because my bios went to some old setting in which the multiplier was at 6 and that is why my temperatures went down. Now that I fixed my bios my temps have gone up 2 degrees. Try and listen to these other people, they probably know more than I do.
December 12, 2006 9:34:41 AM

OK, the AS5 and ArtiClean arrived this morning. I've followed all of the instructions, applied the AS5, and re-applied the heatsink.

After about 1 hour doing some mild Illustrator work (hitting about 10% cpu off and on) I am getting these temps:

CoreTemp: 44°C (c1) 42°C (c2)
SpeedFan: 30°C

Is that still a high idle temperature for the E6600 without any overclock?

Thanks :) 
Mase
December 12, 2006 10:28:37 AM

yea that sounds about right. did you try organizing your case wires to improve airflow? your heatsink can't cool below ambient temperature so that is important. my 6600 sat at around 44 idle at stock and only went up to too 48 overclocked too 3.3 that is all i am going to do until my new water block comes for it.
December 12, 2006 10:38:41 AM

I've just noticed something with the temperatures...

I thought setting Intel TAT to 100% would do the same as dual Prime95s.

If I run TAT at 100%, the temp rises to 58-60°C.

If I run dual Prime95, the temp rises to only 50-52°C.
December 12, 2006 11:14:25 AM

Quote:
I've just noticed something with the temperatures...

I thought setting Intel TAT to 100% would do the same as dual Prime95s.

If I run TAT at 100%, the temp rises to 58-60°C.

If I run dual Prime95, the temp rises to only 50-52°C.


It depends on what version on Prime you run, if u run a custom it pressures everything, if u Run TAT I believe it tests for max heat. Prime is more accurate IMO.

Also, did u manually set the Vcore(CPU Voltage) for your CPU? If you did not i can almost guarantee this is the source of your problems. Go into your bios and set your CPU Voltage to 1.35, run dual prime for 2 hrs, and watch temps. If prime fails up your CPU Voltage to 1.375.

Let me know how taht works out.
December 12, 2006 11:17:21 AM

Yes I'm running a custom.

I have not manually set the Vcore, but SpeedFan says it is running at 1.29V.

Wouldn't changing this to 1.35V increase the temp?

note: I'm still running at 2.4GHz. I reset the bios back to original settings.

Thanks
December 12, 2006 11:28:30 AM

Quote:
Yes I'm running a custom.

I have not manually set the Vcore, but SpeedFan says it is running at 1.29V.

Wouldn't changing this to 1.35V increase the temp?

note: I'm still running at 2.4GHz. I reset the bios back to original settings.

Thanks


I wouldnt go by speedfan. Try setting it manually to 1.3. See how your temps are.

If u have CPU-Z thats a more accurate CPU Voltage reader.
December 12, 2006 12:13:12 PM

Here's the current situation:

Cores are running at 3001.2Ghz
vCore is 1.312 (fluctuating very slightly)

Followed Wusy's guide again and disabled all the tripe.

I'm running 2 copies of Prime95 on the custom torture test, and my temperatures are at around 56-58°C.

Edit: I've been running the torture test and working simultaneously, and the temp fluctuated between 56-58°C and 64-64°C

I'm also working on some graphics at the same time, so I have only set the ram sizes to 600MB in each copy of Prime95.

No errors as of yet.. I'll run it for 2 hours and report back :) 
December 12, 2006 1:27:26 PM

what are us using to monitor your vcore?
Did you manually set it?
December 12, 2006 1:32:57 PM

CPU-Z.

Yes I manually set it
December 12, 2006 1:44:06 PM

Excellent, and you saw a decrease in temps? If you want once you know its prime stable at 1.31 vcore for 2hrs, try lowering your vcore another notch and prime it again for an hour or so, normally it will fail in the first 15min if the vcore is to low.
December 12, 2006 1:44:20 PM

Right...

I can dual Prime95 tests for 1hr 30 mins. No errors, no warnings.

I've made a quick graph to show the temperature through the test.



Note: I took the average temperatue between both cores (which was usually 3°C apart) and used that to plot. As you can see, there is a lot of peaking and dipping.

A reminder of the setup for this test:

333MHz * 9 - 999MHz (sticking at around 3001Mhz)
Voltage of 1.32 (in CPU-Z)
Dual Prime95 for 1hr 30 mins.

Any feedback on that result?

Thanks :) 
December 12, 2006 1:50:08 PM

Id say your safe with prime stable for that long. But those temps are a bit high. What kind of case you got and how many fans and what size are they?

Now taht you know your stable try lowering your vcore a notch, youll see the temps drop, so lets pray it stays stable.
December 12, 2006 1:54:00 PM

Referring to these 2 pictures:



There's 1x120MM fan exhaust, and 1x120MM fan in the front panel. Note, there are also 4 hard drives directly infront of the front fan, and speedfan shows them running at 40-50°C (the lower ones are in the closest proximity to the fan.

:) 
December 12, 2006 1:58:27 PM

Are you running it with the side pannel off or on?
December 12, 2006 2:10:09 PM

The side panel is on.

However, those 'window' sections are hollow, and are only covered by a large honeycombe metal mesh. If I put my hand by either of the holes, I can feel a cold breeze travelling over my hand, as if the air is escaping from there.

I'm considering finding some kind of material to cover those gaps (transparent still :)  ) to see if that might help?

I'm running the torture test on 1.3v, which CPU-Z is reporting as 1.288v. No warnings yet.
December 12, 2006 2:14:08 PM

Just for giggles, after u have run prime for an hour and monitored your temps, pop the side pannel off with prime still running. See if temps drop.

Assuming your rear fan is exhaust and your front is intake, another thing you can do is reverse them. Make the back your intake and your front the exhaust. If you do this dont forget to flip over the fan on your ninja. The reason for this is so that fresh cool air is being fed into your heatsink, not hot air thats been super heated by your hard drives. The mesh siding will also help letting in some cool air and let some of the hot escape.

Try both of those and see how the temps vary.
December 12, 2006 2:27:04 PM

This might just be me, but in the pic of your cooler, it looked like it might be sagging a bit, which could cause partial loss of surface contact. Maybe you should try running your PC on it's side to see what happens? Are you sure you mounted it on there and it is firmly in place? (you want it to be as snug as possible)
December 12, 2006 2:30:21 PM

Quote:
This might just be me, but in the pic of your cooler, it looked like it might be sagging a bit, which could cause partial loss of surface contact. Maybe you should try running your PC on it's side to see what happens? Are you sure you mounted it on there and it is firmly in place? (you want it to be as snug as possible)


Good eye, it does look to be sagging a little.
December 12, 2006 2:32:24 PM

You could have a point...

I just did a little experiment, pushing it up, temps dropped to 59... letting it go, they rose to 64.

But it really is as tight as I can get it. I dont want to push it any harder and break the mobo :X All of the clips are firmly in place.

Note that this pic was taken before I re-set the heatsink this morning.
December 12, 2006 2:39:11 PM

well the fact that temps dropped when you pushed on it is proof enough for me my friend. lay it on its side. See what happens.

I was unaware the ninja clipped in, i thought it had a backplate?
December 12, 2006 2:53:26 PM

That must be it. I'm running another stress test, and I've pulled the heatsink upward with a large wire tie (to the rail by the PSU) and it's hitting between 52-56°C.

I'll keep it running for 20 minutes, then build another graph. I'll then take the motherboard out and see if the clips will go down any further.

I have the 'Ninja Plus' and it didn't come with a backplate... just 3 different brackets, one of which is for this board, and has the same black push-pin design.

Edit: Should I re-clean the CPU / Heatsink and re-set it again?
December 12, 2006 3:06:33 PM

Here's the graph from the past 20 minutes:



Peak of 55°C.

It's definitely got to be the contact of the heatsink then. As per my last post, should I clean the CPU / HS again before re-setting?

Thanks for all your help guys.
December 12, 2006 3:09:54 PM

I have an E6600 and i've always used the grain of rice when putting AS5 on. I put a drop in the center (prob a little bit thicker than a grain of rice) and I have a zalman 9500, idle temps are 31-33. Load temps are low 40's.
December 12, 2006 3:26:48 PM

Yes... if you are going to try reseating the HSF to get better contact, you should clean it with rubbing alcohol (or Arctic Silver cleaning stuff) 'till it shines before re-applying (remember, less is more pretty much).

Be sure you get that beast mounted tight on there. The thing with your cooler is that it's mega heavy, so you must be careful during installation. Anyway, if you are getting peak of 55c right now, once the AS5 cures you will probably be down to like 50c. If you decide to experiment with cleaning then reseating, you might be able to get even lower than that. But, I just wanted to remind you that your temps will drop after the paste cures.
December 12, 2006 3:38:25 PM

Much better temps my friend. If you want to see if you machine is getting the proper airflow pop the side pannel off and see if temps drop. Looking at your side pannel, the reason its grated where it is, is so the heat from the Vid card has a place to escape. I wouldnt cover that. You can probably get more oc out of that if you wanted to. If not, then continue to lower your vcore till its unstable, then got up to the last stable voltage and leave it there.

And yes, clean the cpu and heatsink completly, and reapply the paste.
December 12, 2006 3:46:08 PM

Oh, and one more thing... you can always "practice" with no paste, just trying to get the HSF down to where the CPU heatspreader is evenly. Then, once you have done that and know you have it down you can actually apply the paste and get it on there. Just a thought. :D 
December 12, 2006 3:59:26 PM

This is all good advice :)  Time to disconnect and play with the heatsink. It's hard getting my fingers in there amongst the heatpipe from the northbridge!

I'll report back in a few hours once I've had a fiddle :) 
December 12, 2006 4:02:33 PM

It might be better to take your mobo out of your case. Of course, it's a major pain in the rear, but if you want to achieve good results with modding your PC from stock cooler and whatnot, you're going to have to spend some time on it. :lol: 
December 12, 2006 4:04:06 PM

Heh, yes I do take it out of the case. It's still tricky even then!

The case has a removable mobo tray, which makes things easier :) 
December 12, 2006 4:13:14 PM

Don't put on a grain of rice, just stick to arctic silver's instructions, and put a sliver. It worked for me.

Dude, you need a new heatsink. I know it sucks, but you need to make contact.

Oh, and use 70% isopropyl alcohol and old underwear (no tissues) to clean you cpu and heatsink. Make sure your fingers never touch either surface. Maybe wear latex gloves to be sure. And after you place the heatsink on firmly, squirm it a little to help spread the stuff.

You idle temps should not be above 40, preferable lower.

And in response to your earlier question, if your volts are too low, in order for your cpu to draw enough watts, it will raise the amps, which will raise resistance, and overheat your cpu. You must raise your volts, but raising it too much could cause instability, so do it gently. Also, if you overclocked your bus, you may need to overvolt your northbridge a bit. You should find other posts on the topic.

Bruce
December 12, 2006 4:23:29 PM

Nice... after I posted that I actually thought "oops, that has removable tray I think". But it was too late, and I never EVER hit that edit button!!!! ;) 
December 12, 2006 5:19:23 PM

Quote:
This might just be me, but in the pic of your cooler, it looked like it might be sagging a bit, which could cause partial loss of surface contact.


Well, I think I have found the culprit :) 



Bloody good spot there! I must have broken it whilst applying the AS5 this morning.

Edit: I forgot to say that I had to prise one of the connectors off from the stock HS and reattach it onto the Ninja. Tricky job :s


Idle temps are now about 40°C :) 
Load temps are now about 48°C :) 

I even ran the TAT tool, and that didn't pass 55°C.

Here's an updated graph.. idle and load under a torture test:



Here's the previous 2:



If it's this low now, I can't wait until the AS5 cures :)  This is a fresh application, about 15 mins old :D 

Thanks a ton guys, all the help in this thread has been much appreciated.

Any other feedback?
December 12, 2006 5:32:42 PM

Actually, for some reason the system booted up at 2.4GHz.

I've set it back to 3GHz, and the temperatures have only risen by 2°C !

So, the graphs are still pretty accurate :p 
December 12, 2006 5:48:42 PM

I think pulling the cpu may reset taht in the bios. Make sure your other setting are still correct.
December 12, 2006 6:31:53 PM

I checked all of the settings. When I restarted, the frequency had gone back up to 333, and all of the other settings had reverted.

I've run a torture test for an hour. Here's the graph, after starting from idle.



How are those temperatures now? Hopefully they will improve more after curing!

I need to get some faster RAM :( 
December 12, 2006 6:39:10 PM

Quote:
I checked all of the settings. When I restarted, the frequency had gone back up to 333, and all of the other settings had reverted.

I've run a torture test for an hour. Here's the graph, after starting from idle.



How are those temperatures now? Hopefully they will improve more after curing!

I need to get some faster RAM :( 


looks good, did u try it with the side pannel off?
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