my stupid friends

lewbaseball07

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OK, i have this bet with my stupid friends who think a ps3 or 360 is better than any computer.

I know there has been another thread on this on here but they couldnt understand that...soo explain why a freaking computer is a million times better in stupid terms k?

tell them right here right now that a computer...best rig out there

thanks...
 
G

Guest

Guest
*sight* no again

Read that

Concluding anything about Cell requires a multifaceted look at the architecture and the platform as a whole.

First from the perspective of the game industry, more specifically Playstation 3:

Cell’s architecture is similar to the next version of Microsoft’s Xbox and upcoming PC microprocessors in that it is heavily multithreaded. The next Xbox will execute between 3 and 6 threads simultaneously, while desktop PC microprocessors will execute between 2 - 4. The problem is that while Xbox 2/360/Next and the PC will be using multiple general purpose cores, Cell relies on more specialized hardware to achieve its peak performance. Cell’s SPEs being Altivec/VMX derived is a benefit, which should mean that the ISA is more familiar to developers working on any POWER based architecture, but the approach to development on Cell vs. development on the PC will literally be on opposite ends of the spectrum, with the new Xbox somewhere in between.

The problem here is that big game development houses often develop and optimize for the least common denominator when it comes to hardware, and offer ports with minor improvements to other platforms. Given Cell’s architecture, it hardly looks like a suitable “base” platform to develop for. We’d venture to say that a game developed for and ported from the PC or Xbox Next would be under-utilizing Cell’s performance potential unless significant code re-write time was spent.

Console-only development houses, especially those with close ties to Sony, may find themselves able to harness the power of Cell much more efficiently than developers who ascribe to the write-once, port-many process of cross-platform development. Given EA’s recent acquisition and licensing-spree, this is a very valid concern.

With Cell, Sony has effectively traded hardware complexity for programmer burden, but if anyone is willing to bear the burden of a complicated architecture, it is a game developer. The problem grows in complexity once you start factoring in porting to multiple platforms in a timely manner while still attempting to achieve maximum performance.

As a potential contender in the PC market, Cell has a very tall ladder to climb before even remotely appearing on the AMD/Intel radars. The biggest strength that the x86 market has is backwards compatibility, which is the main thing that has kept alternative ISAs out of the PC business. Regardless of how much hype is drummed up around Cell, the processor is not immune to the same laws of other contenders in the x86 market - a compatible ISA is a must. And as Intel’s Justin Rattner put it, “if there are good ideas in that architecture, PC architecture is very valuable and it will move to incorporate those ideas.”

Once again, what’s most intriguing is the similarity, at a high level, of Intel’s far future multi-core designs to Cell today. The main difference is that while Intel’s Cell-like designs will be built on 32nm or smaller processes, Cell is being introduced at 90nm - meaning that Intel is envisioning many more complex cores on a single die than Cell. Intel can make that kind of migration to a Cell-like design because their microprocessors already have a very large user base. IBM, Sony and Toshiba can’t however - Cell must achieve a very large user base initially in order to be competitive down the road. Unfortunately, seeing a future for Cell far outside of Playstation 3 and Sony/Toshiba CE devices is difficult at best.

The first thing you have to keep in mind is that Cell’s architecture is nothing revolutionary, it’s been done before. TI’s MVP 320C8X is a multi-processor DSP that sounds a lot like Cell: http://focus.ti.com/docs/military/catalog/general/general.jhtml?templateId=5603&path=templatedata/cm/milgeneral/data/dsp_320c80&familyId=44. So, while Cell is the best mass-market attempt at a design approach that has been tried before, it doesn’t have history on its side for success beyond a limited number of applications.

Regardless of what gaming platform you’re talking about, Cell’s ability to offer an array of cores to handle sophisticated physics and AI processing is the future. AGEIA’s announcement of the PhysX PPU (and the fact that it’s been given the “thumbs up” by Ubisoft and Epic Games) lends further credibility to Cell’s feasibility as a high performance gaming CPU.

The need for more realistic physics environments and AI in games is no illusion; the question is will Intel’s forthcoming dual and multi-core CPUs (with further optimized SIMD units) offer enough parallelism and performance for game developers, or will the PPU bring Cell-like architecture to the desktop PC well ahead of schedule? The answer to that question could very well shape the future of desktop PCs even more so than the advent of the GPU.

Is a good start for PS3
 

lewbaseball07

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dude my friends dont know anything about anything..they wouldnt know what cache...cell processor...the whole 9...simple terms so i can freaking win this bet
 

Siba

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Why do you keep idiots around yourself as friends, then? Have you considered the fact that your closed-mindedness has made you an idiot in their eyes?

It's a stupid argument either way, in my opinion. If you want a console, you get whichever console you think is best or has the games you want. If you want a computer, you either buy one, build one, or pay someone to build it for you. It's that simple.

There is no "best" for everyone. There is a best for you, and a best for another person.

And for the love of God, why do you keep double posting on your own posts? EDIT. I really wish there was a forum block, but I can't help but flame incompetence.
 

JMecc

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Play the same game on your pc & one of their game systems. Why do you think the PC version looks better and has more levels? Not only will your PC beat their systems, but it is a general machine - gaming systems can only do a very narrow range of things (360 can't even recognize a flash drive) so all they get is a very thin operating system. Even with their very low resource using OS's, the gaming systems can't perform like PC's. Sony & MS are willing to lose a bit of $ on each system to make it up in game sales, but they are surely not willing to lose that much to offer you a $3000 system for $600.

Jo
 

elpresidente2075

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Well, you could mention the larger amount of software that you can use on a computer (I dare you to use photoshop or gimp on an xbox).

And don't forget upgradeability, and not buying your hardware from either sony or microsoft.

Graphics are better on the consoles now. In 6 months they will be better on the PC and stay that way for years until they come out with the next next gen.

A PC is just more versatile. If they can't accept that, then they don't care and won't ever know why a PC always trumps a console in terms of everything except for the (momentary) graphics advantage. Good Luck convincing them...
 

lewbaseball07

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are u kidding me... x6800, 8800gtx(sli?...if u need it), and 4gb ddr2-1066...would pwnnnnnnnnn any console..

sorry guys i ment computers are better in games than any console not better in general
 

endyen

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When those consoles were designed, thier gfx processor was pretty state of the art. Unfortunetely for them, it's been a long time since design. Your gfx card is only a little better than thiers is now. Next year will bring better games and better gfx cards. Then, where will they want to play?
You should understand that consoles are special purpose devices, they do games very well. They are also good value, as the mother company will sell at a loss, hoping to profit from game sales.
If you need max bling, consoles cant compeat. If you just want a good value gaming machine, consoles are a steal.
 

grant_77

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At the moment the PS3 is more powerful for gaming because of its specifically designed nature for that purpose. Unfortunately no software exists that can fully utilize it, and by the time that software is available desktop gaming computers will have 4 cores, and 2-4 graphics cores and will be superior. As well as the ability to perform other tasks and store things on the harddrive.

Next august pure quad cores will be released and they are already testing multi core radeons on one video card. Not to mention computers with 4-8 gb of ram.

I would say at the moment the best quad core overclocked qx6700 with 8800gtx in sli, raid raptor 150s and 2-4 gb of ram would probably score pretty close to a ps3. But it uses alot more power and costs alot more. Every 18 months though everything doubles so it will soon go back into the pcs favour.
 

BGP_Spook

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IMO:

The PC is a better extreme high-end gaming machine than a X360 or a PS3.

The longer a given console is out the more this become apparent.

Right now, the best graphics are about the same on the X360, PC, and PS3. This is mostly due to the games and software not taking full advantage of hardware. Particularly on the PC where the hardware ranges from ancient history to bleeding edge tech but the high-end will have that bleeding edge tech.

For the same game? The extreme high-end PC wins.

In a year, who will have the better looking sharper image with smoother frame rates and better controls? The extreme high-end PC.

Will all PC games in a years time take advantage of todays high-end hardware? No.

Will most games for the PS3 or X360 take advantage of their respective hardware? Probably.

But by that time the extreme high-end PC should have new bleeding edge tech that should stomp the X360 and the PS3, again it won't be fully utilized.
 

Gh0stDrag0n

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If you can afford to build a cutting edge uber gaming PC than another $1000 for a 360 and PS3 is nothing. Buy them all and play them all. Enough with this stupid argument. A high end PC will always win, but try and build one for the same price as both consoles. A good PC can be built for $1000 but not gaming powerhouse. The best video cards (xfire or sli) will cost more than all 3 new consoles.
 

Gh0stDrag0n

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At the moment the PS3 is more powerful for gaming because of its specifically designed nature for that purpose. Unfortunately no software exists that can fully utilize it, and by the time that software is available desktop gaming computers will have 4 cores, and 2-4 graphics cores and will be superior. As well as the ability to perform other tasks and store things on the harddrive.

Next august pure quad cores will be released and they are already testing multi core radeons on one video card. Not to mention computers with 4-8 gb of ram.

I would say at the moment the best quad core overclocked qx6700 with 8800gtx in sli, raid raptor 150s and 2-4 gb of ram would probably score pretty close to a ps3. But it uses alot more power and costs alot more. Every 18 months though everything doubles so it will soon go back into the pcs favour.


If you really think the PS3 is this powerful than you need to lay off the drugs.
 

valis

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dude my friends dont know anything about anything..they wouldnt know what cache...cell processor...the whole 9...simple terms so i can freaking win this bet

the answers to your question are technical. we can't say "it's better just because". if they can't understand then they'll never believe you.

my answer would depend on your TV basically.

if you hook your console into a "normal" tv, not hi-def, the maximum resolution you're going to be seeing is 640x480 and there's nothing you can do about it. any coomputer these days will run games in 1600x1200 resolution, higher resolution, higher detail.

other than that, if they can't understand the reasons why then there's no way to win your bet.

Valis

it's like trying to explain why a BMW is better than a mercedes and trying to not use anything like transmissions, gear ratios, torque, or horsepower. good luck with that.
 

croc

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I hope you didn't bet a lot of money... You are in a no-win situation. They will always have their opinion, and you will always have yours. Just humour yourself knowing that there are many other things that you can do besides playing games and maybe doing limited web browsing or email...
 

plankmeister

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PS3 narrowly beats XBox 360 graphics-wise, and if I remember correctly, the graphics part in the PS3 is already 1 generation old. An 8800GTX utilising DX10 will beat it comfortably. Some PC games are optimized to take advantage of multiple cores, whereas a lot of PS3 games have to be specifically coded for the Cell processor, which is sort of multicore... It's more like the architecture of the 8800 than a CPU, actually... Anyway... As has been said many time before... By the time tight code exists for the Cell, Intel and AMD will be fabbing 4 and maybe even 8 core processors at 32nm. Which basically means that the performace curve of a PS3 will never be higher than the performance curve of a high-end PC.

However, if you want a PC to "beat" a PS3 with, you'll need to spend significantly more...
 

Ponk

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I think you're stupid. Why would you make a bet that you can't prove because they know nothing about PC's? Hopefully you'll lose shed loads of money, but gain valuable intelligence not to barter with people your own IQ.
 

TabrisDarkPeace

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The original Nintendo console was even better,
.... because people couldn't access the Internet (or Forums) using one and ask questions that have already been answered in several other fthreads.

:lol: - Tabris:DarkPeace
 

lewbaseball07

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how would programming the game for cell have a performance increase?!?!...core 2s have a better archetechure and are wayyy more effient. Also processors dont make a huge fps increase/decrease!!!
 

franatium

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though of course core 2 duo is more expensive than the cell processor and wasnt around when the PS3 was being designed
 

Darkchyld

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Once you get through the classical arguments about the hardware, the games availile and the like try this on a console.
Add a level or custom charater.
Patch a flawed game, it happens even to consoles.
I've got over a thousand "mods" for Quake 3 myself.
That, IMO, is what sets the computer apart from the consoles.