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RAID or 10,000RPM?

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December 14, 2006 3:10:49 AM

What would be a faster/better setup. Two raided 80 GB 7200 RPM drives or one 10,000 RPM drive? I've never done RAID before nor have I run a 10,000 RPM drive.

Also, I want to run another larger drive to store my music and movies. Like 120 GB drive. Will this slow my performance down any? It shouldn't because it will only be accessed during music and movies.

Thanks

More about : raid 000rpm

December 14, 2006 7:08:38 AM

RAID's don't necessarily improve access speeds, and conversely, 10K RPM drives don't give increased data stability. Its kind of a apples to oranges deal, although you could RAID Raptors and have access speed and data stability.
But you already know that, and already know that you need two (or more) equal drives to setup a RAID.
So I'd recommend going with 2 x 120GB 10,000RPM WD RAPTOR X, in the RAID of your choice. Speed and stability. Gotta love it.
December 14, 2006 7:36:03 AM

wasnt aware WD made a 120 gig 10k spinster. i have 2 150's in RAID0 and it is very fast you will see better performance in 1 10,000RPM Raptor then 2 7200RPM's in RAID0
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December 14, 2006 7:56:23 AM

"Faster" except in certain scenarios will be the Raptor.

You'll get a better sequential transfer rate from the striped pair of 7200s. This will have an effect in certain applications, but mostly the Raptor will be the fastest.

Having a second hard drive will not slow your computer down :) 
December 14, 2006 8:34:58 AM

follow the advise above its good stuff, i was just wondering why a 120GB for games and movies? for the price difference just get a 200 or 250GB. personnally i wouldnt be able to fit all my games on a 120 drive never mind the movies.
December 14, 2006 8:29:06 PM

Alright, well that sounds REALLY expensive. I was just in bestbuy and I think it was like 150 for a 80 gb 10,000 rpm WD drive. But I'll be purchasing the whole thing off newegg, of course. So I'll count on it be much cheaper. Plus they ship to my house in 2 days most of the time.

So do you think running an extra 120-200 gb 7200(cheaper) drive will slow me down any? In addition to the raided drives? Like I said this is just to store my movies and mp3s.
December 14, 2006 9:06:40 PM

Quote:
RAID's don't necessarily improve access speeds, and conversely, 10K RPM drives don't give increased data stability. Its kind of a apples to oranges deal, although you could RAID Raptors and have access speed and data stability.
But you already know that, and already know that you need two (or more) equal drives to setup a RAID.
So I'd recommend going with 2 x 120GB 10,000RPM WD RAPTOR X, in the RAID of your choice. Speed and stability. Gotta love it.


There's no such thing as 120GB raptors. they're 150GB. I can't fault them they are excellent drives but I'd strongly reccomend not getting the X ( the one with the window) but getting the regular windowless drive.

Its the same drive other than a widow so has the same performance, it is significantly quieter because instead of a window it has a sound-dampening lid, its $50 cheaper, and has higher speced MTBF for what its worth.
December 14, 2006 9:08:59 PM

Quote:
What would be a faster/better setup. Two raided 80 GB 7200 RPM drives or one 10,000 RPM drive? I've never done RAID before nor have I run a 10,000 RPM drive.

Also, I want to run another larger drive to store my music and movies. Like 120 GB drive. Will this slow my performance down any? It shouldn't because it will only be accessed during music and movies.

Thanks

I would go for the upgrade path. Buy 1 raptor now and later when you can buy another for RAID.
December 14, 2006 9:11:12 PM

My bad. I meant 150GB. Easy to screw up the numbers isn't it. :oops: 
December 14, 2006 9:39:08 PM

I think cost per mb the 74gig raptors are cheaper....
I would raid them instead
December 16, 2006 5:43:27 AM

yea i think 2 striped 74 gb raptors is pretty much ideal in this scenario...
December 16, 2006 7:26:50 AM

Raptors are noisy, and also add to case heat. And two raptors in raid 0 demands that you have a good backup strategy, as any failure in one will mean a complete re-install. They are expensive, as you have noted.

That said, if you are willing to put up with the extra noise, heat, and the reduced data integretiy, and have the money, go for it.

The second (third) drive should not slow you down.

my 2p.
December 16, 2006 9:06:26 AM

Quote:
follow the advise above its good stuff, i was just wondering why a 120GB for games and movies? for the price difference just get a 200 or 250GB. personnally i wouldnt be able to fit all my games on a 120 drive never mind the movies.


Biggest raptor (that i know of) comes as 150. Your primary windows partition shouldn't be that big anyway, I like to keep mine around 80G. I try to store those movies, disk images, and other things that don't matter too much on one or more slower higher capacity drives

I think a raid 5 array with 4 150G raptors would be nice, 450G fast and reliable. Have to win the lotto first :wink:
December 16, 2006 11:27:25 AM

Hi,

I would have to see some test documentation before I would accept any claims that one 10,000 rpm Raptor is faster than two 7200 rpm drives in RAID-0, or vice-versa. The Raptor's specs are sweet, to be sure. But here is my anecdotal experience with Raptors compared to other 7200 rpm drives:

Back when the first 10,000 rpm Raptors were around 40Gb, I ran two Raptors in RAID-0. I got a very good boot time and load time for apps and games, but it was not a "wow" experience. I remember feeling buyer's remorse because I had spent a ton of money on the Raptors.

Now, I am running two 7200 rpm Seagates in RAID-0. I really cannot tell much difference between the two setups. I have not looked at charts to compare milliseconds of seek times and all of that. However, everyday usage with the two Seagates in RAID-0 is fast and satisfying.

Purely as an experience-based opinion, this may be one of those areas where a user's real-world gains may not be as exciting as the specs would make one expect.

best wishes,
mike
December 16, 2006 12:35:37 PM

Quote:
What would be a faster/better setup. Two raided 80 GB 7200 RPM drives or one 10,000 RPM drive? I've never done RAID before nor have I run a 10,000 RPM drive.

Also, I want to run another larger drive to store my music and movies. Like 120 GB drive. Will this slow my performance down any? It shouldn't because it will only be accessed during music and movies.

Thanks


Big file to work with (video editing,..)? RAID0
Lot of small files to with(pictures, MP3) Raptor

Both has pro and cons, depend of what you do
December 16, 2006 1:29:57 PM

Quote:


Biggest raptor (that i know of) comes as 150.


There are 80GB and 160GB Dell OEM Raptors only available in Dell PCs.
December 16, 2006 2:12:06 PM

IMO, it's not even worth the price premium to pay for a 150 GB raptor, much less even two of them. Unless you intend on doing intense video editing or if you feel like regularly throwing gigabytes of data to and fro hard drives, don't bother with the raptors. You're better off getting a 320 GB Barracuda 10 or two. For $200, you can get 640 GB of storage, and RAID if you want, instead of just a single raptor.

Honestly, it's really not worth it. As I've said before unless you intend on doing professional video editing, don't even get a raptor.
December 16, 2006 2:39:02 PM

Quote:
My bad. I meant 150GB. Easy to screw up the numbers isn't it. :oops: 


My fingers hit the wrong keys all the time. Blame it on partial paralysis of my right hand. Got to keep up on reading what is written before tis posted. Even then, some things escape me.
December 17, 2006 2:20:18 PM

I agree, my RAID 0 2x 74G raptors are fast but with new HD technology advancing with Flash and such, it maybe worth buying the 7200 drives and RAID them, then upgrade to the new HD standard when it (if) comes out. The 7200 HD’s then can be use for music and storage. Pure speculation on my part.
December 17, 2006 8:16:17 PM

I'm going to do a lot of gaming on this computer and I watch a lot of movies. I'm going to buy a projector for the movies so by the time I get this computer built I'll probably just burn all my movies on dvds so I won't need to watch them off the pc. They'll probably be in seperate rooms anyway.

So basically gaming and music.

Maybe I'll just go with 7200 RPM drives because I put two 150gb raptor 10,000 rpm drives and 2 gb of pc 6400 ddr2 together on a list on newegg and it was like 740 bucks...
December 20, 2006 10:13:57 PM

I was in a similar situation when I had to decide on my HD setup. I chose to get a 74GB raptor and a 400GB Seagate 7200.10. Going to wait for those hybrid HD to come out and raid those using the raptor later as a swap file and video encoding drive.
December 20, 2006 10:38:58 PM

Get three Seagate Barracuda 250's for the price of one Raptor 150 and RAID 5 them. :wink:
December 20, 2006 11:32:06 PM

Quote:
Get three Seagate Barracuda 250's for the price of one Raptor 150 and RAID 5 them. :wink:


I'm with 69camaroSS on this one, that would be sweet... just to show off a little... :twisted:
December 21, 2006 12:03:31 AM

Alright, I would certainly say go with the Raptor. To the dude who said they are "noisy" just get a zalman heatpipe hd cooler which has rubber nipples and mount it to the bottom of the case via some newb moddage. It will keep it cool and plus help with the noise too. Mine works really nice and quite plus keeping it cool will help with stability. Every uber noob knows that heat is a comp killer.
December 21, 2006 12:25:03 AM

I have two 10K rpm drives in RAID 0. Its just stupid-fast.
December 21, 2006 12:35:57 AM

i second sruane's statement, its stupidly extremely fast
December 21, 2006 1:02:21 AM

I think it might be better if u just buy two 320G 7200.10 seagate H.D and do stripping (raid 0). Because music & movies take up a lot of space. I have 2 computers each with different setup.
1. 3.2Ghz celeron, 1GB RAM, x2 320GB 7200.10 seagate H.D (raid 0) SATA.
2. Pentium D 3.4Ghz, 1GB DDRII 800, x2 36GB (16MB buffer) in raid 0 SATA.

Both window boot up time is about the same, and you can't really notice any big difference at normal usage. Of course the pentium D can do a lot more multi tasking than the celeron, but i still think the 320GB x2 in raid 0 is better for storage and normal daily usage. Copying music or DVD and browsing website at the sametime on the 3.2 celeron system is responsive, but can't play games at the sametime.

if you are afraid of one of the drive crap up under heat, then you can always stick a P4 heatsink on top of the Hard drive it self with double sided tape like i do. Get a P4 heatsink with a large surface area at the bottom to get more contact with the H.D.
December 21, 2006 6:42:26 AM

Quote:
Get three Seagate Barracuda 250's for the price of one Raptor 150 and RAID 5 them. :wink:


Excellent suggestion raid 5... till the hybrid HD's come out.
December 21, 2006 3:26:17 PM

He is on a budget, and you really are not answer his questions.

Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive $229.99 ($199.99 after $30.00 Mail-In Rebate)

Western Digital WD800JD Caviar SE WD800JD 80GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive $43.99 x2= $88 (total of 160gb)

As you can see the later is much cheaper and probably will be slightly faster too.

in raid-0 you double your chance of loosing all your data.
But back-up regular your "my doc" folder to your second media drive
and you will be fine.

Get this drive for that:
Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JS 250GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s $69.99

Price are from Newegg as of 12/21/06
December 24, 2006 2:18:30 AM

After reading this I'm more confused than before!! LOL

OK, I'm waiting on two parts(motherboard and ram) to come in next week then it's build time. I purchased 2 320 gig sata3's. A friend told me I should get either a 36 gig or 74 gig raptor to install windows on and everything else on my seagate 320's. One being a copy of the other (I don't know what raid that is)

Thoughts?? NOT losing data is important to me. I can always reinstall windows! LOL
December 24, 2006 2:53:08 AM

Most people do not care about loosing data on their media drive.
As is just filed with MP3's, DVD rips and porn.
That can always be downloaded again or be replaced some way.

But if it's important to you do not loose the media drive files ever,
When you would have to get two 320gb and raid-1.
You will only get 320GB of total space (e.g not 640GB)

Maybe get one more 320Gb drive and raid-5 them?
(make sure the Mobo supports it)

You will never loose data and you will get a total of 640GB of space,
and near raid-0 speed (close to double the speed of a single drive).

You would NOT need to get a raptor drive in this case.
December 24, 2006 2:58:02 AM

Thank you. The reason for not losing the data is that it would be more than porn!! ROFL ( I know you were joking!) the wife works in Photoshop somewhat and I figured most Data could be saved one the 320 gig drive and just the OS on the Raptor.

But your idea sound cheaper!! : )

If it matters, it's a new ASUS 680i motherboard, not the Extreme!! LOL
December 24, 2006 3:19:28 AM

If i were in your situation I would go with the Raid 5. Raid 5 provides both increased performance and reliability. But before you put all of your important data on it, try "pretending" that one of your drives goes bad and try to recover the data stored on them. I would hate for you to figure out you did something wrong and can't recover your data until it's too late.
December 24, 2006 3:22:16 AM

Can you give me a brief idea of what raid 5 is? with three hard drives...what is on what disk?

(EDIT) I guess I should have looked further. I found the answer to my question in the FAQ section...

Level 5 : Striping with distributed parity.
Data and parity is striped across 3 or more drives. Parity is distributed to each drive. Level 5 is the most widely used RAID for servers and other highperformance storage solutions. Any single drive can fail without data loss, ie. at least two drives must fail before any data is lost.

So maybe a third Seagate baracuda 320 gig sata3 drive would be the best solution! Hmmmmm???
December 24, 2006 3:53:44 AM

In Raid5 you can use 3 or 4 drives by just using the built in sata function on your mobo. (some newer can even use 5 or 6 drives)

The raid function will be set up in BIOS raid (hold down F10 while booting)
but first you need to set the drives raidable in the regular bios
(hold down delete key)

You will not have 3 drives now, windows will just see one big 640GB
drive.

Raid-5 uses a check sum system.
You do not have to worry how it really works, but it uses XOR calc.

0 + 0 = 0
1 + 0 = 1
0 + 1 = 1
1 + 1 = 0

The left is drive 1 and the second number is drive 2 and the sum is saved on drive 3.

As long you have two drives that are funtional, eg it does not matter what drive dies.
You can buy a replacement drive, stick it in and the raid then re-build itself to be fault proof once again..
You can still use the computer while you are waiting for the replacement
drive to show up.

Say drive 1 dies and using the 0 + 0 = 0 example.
The system will look at drive 2 and see a 0 and look at drive 3
and see that answer is 0 it then figure out that the only answer to
x + 0 =0 is that x must be 0
December 24, 2006 4:06:09 AM

So this sounds like a better solution than getting a raptor for the OS. This won't effect gaming performance will it??
December 24, 2006 4:13:19 AM

Quote:
So this sounds like a better solution than getting a raptor for the OS. This won't effect gaming performance will it??


No, it will be near raptor preformace on the whole 640Gb worth of space.

like they say, raid5 is the speed of raid 0 (and that is raptor speed)
and the safty of raid-1.

Raid 10 (1+0) would probably be the same speed too,
but uses 4 drives and two drives are lost to the raid-1 function.
December 24, 2006 4:22:18 AM

Thank you very much!! It great to get answers!! So many times these threads tend to go off subject! LOL

Thanks again!
December 24, 2006 5:15:15 AM

so what is the ultimate?

how about 3 raptors in raid - 5?
December 24, 2006 5:20:13 AM

Make sure you know how to recover/rebuild the data when a drive fails, do one or more practice runs just to be sure.

I havn't messed around with it, but i've read horror stories of people who used raid 5 fine for years until a drive failed, then they lost all their data because they didn't know what they were doing. Not trying to scare you, just better to be safe than sorry! :wink:
December 24, 2006 5:24:15 AM

I better check the FAQ to see if there is something about recovering data in raid 5?? Can anyone reply to this in a positive way?? Or is it a nightmare?? LOL or does that again depend on the system, the motherboard...other things??


Thanks!
December 24, 2006 5:26:00 AM

This is what i think (correct me if i'm wrong) for SATA drives:

Ultimate speed 2 raptors in raid 0

Ultimate speed/saftey 4 raptors in raid 1+0

Ultimate speed/saftey/storage 3 or more raptors in raid 5.

Ultimate speed/saftey/storage/price 3 or more cheap SATA drives in raid 5.
December 24, 2006 5:28:17 AM

Quote:
I better check the FAQ to see if there is something about recovering data in raid 5?? Can anyone reply to this in a positive way?? Or is it a nightmare?? LOL or does that again depend on the system, the motherboard...other things??


Thanks!


Actually the only horror stories I've heard are some from third party pci-express SATA controller cards.
December 24, 2006 5:28:53 AM

yes but shouldnt the 3rd combo be faster than the 4th?
December 24, 2006 5:31:04 AM

pshrk..... How are you liking your motherboard?? That is the New Asus board right??

I probably shouldn't be asking this on this string! LOL I think that's the same board I just got. Any tips or tricks??
December 24, 2006 5:33:15 AM

Quote:
yes but shouldnt the 3rd combo be faster than the 4th?


yeah, and 2 raptors in raid 0 should be slightly faster than raid 5 but not much.
December 24, 2006 5:48:08 AM

I love my new board, it works great and looks sharp. Can't get ntune to work with XP Pro x64. Nforce drivers seem to work really well though. I'm just starting to figure out all the options in the BIOS. Chipset seemed to run rather hot, an external sensor was giving me a temp of 50 degrees C, so the chips are probably getting even hotter. I tried removing the copper heatpipes/heatsinks and replacing their thermal paste with artic silver 5. It was a pain in the butt and didn't seem to help much. Eventually I just decided to plug in another very quiet fan to blow on the heatsink. I plugged my old but powerful 20 pin power supply into the 24 pin socket on the board and it works great, you don't need to buy an 20-->24 pin adaptor or anything if you were thinking of doing this.


Other than the hot chipset and ntune I can't find anything to complain about. It's been solid as a rock, easy to configure, and very customizable. I decided not to get the Striker Extreme because the LCD and other extras might look cool, but IMHO its just more things that can break.
December 24, 2006 5:51:11 AM

Was it a pain to install the Zalman cooler?? i am not an overclocker so I keep wondering if I should bother with an after market cooler or not.
December 24, 2006 4:03:57 PM

It wasn't a pain, however it was a little more difficult than the stock HSF that came with my E6400. The stock HSF seemed to work good so you don't really need an aftermarket cooler if your not overclocking.
December 24, 2006 5:39:59 PM

Quote:
What would be a faster/better setup. Two raided 80 GB 7200 RPM drives or one 10,000 RPM drive? I've never done RAID before nor have I run a 10,000 RPM drive.

Also, I want to run another larger drive to store my music and movies. Like 120 GB drive. Will this slow my performance down any? It shouldn't because it will only be accessed during music and movies.

Thanks


Take a look at those graphs.

This is single 150GB Raptor drive WD1500ADFD:


This is RAID 0 volume residing on array formed using two WD2500YS (RAID Edition) drives:


This is the same RAID 0 volume with write back cache disabled:


This is RAID 1 volume residing on the same array as the RAID 0 above -- something you can do if you have Intel chipset with ICH6R, ICH7R or ICH8R controller:


I am using Raptor as a system drive and games are installed there. I use RAID 1 volume to keep my important files safe, and RAID 0 volume for performance (video editing, encoding, etc). It is possible to have RAID 0+1 using only two drives thanks to Intel Matrix RAID technology.
!