Worth getting M/B with both AGP and PCI-e? (If still can..?)

[ghostwalker]

This is my current system:

CPU - P4 2.8GHz
MB - MSI 648Max
PSU - Enermax 350W
RAM - 1.5Gb
GC - 7600GT AGP

Basically I'm looking to upgrade my CPU in the new year to a C2D hopefully and obviously will need a new MB to support it (which in turn means I'll need new RAM right? My question is this, as I've recently bought a new GC (the 7600GT) which is AGP, I don't really won't to have to replace this as well so is it possible (good practice?) to buy a motherboard with both AGP and PCI-e so I can upgrade to a PCI-e GC later? Or will any MB with both AGP and PCI-e slots be crap?

Thanks.

 

[Wisq]

It's an August review, but you may want to check the ASRock 775Dual-VSTA out: http://www.legitreviews.com/article/377/1/

Support for legacy everything. Its only disadvantages (according to the review) are the 4x PCI-E limitation and the lack of good overclocking ability. But it did pretty well in their benchmarks of various activities, and it's dirt cheap to boot.

Even if you end up getting a high-end motherboard once you eliminate all the old components, it seems to me you still haven't "wasted" much money, and you've gotten a lot more life out of your AGP card.

I'm considering one of these for my own situation (DDR1 RAM, AGP video, IDE hard drives, etc.), so I'd be interested if anyone has any comments, or better alternatives.

 

[paulmforumz]

I was just looking at PCI e specs. It is NOT good to have both AGP and PCI-e on mobo from what I have read. The reason basically given was regarding bus speeds and such. That forcing AGP and PCIe on same motherboard involves MANY tradeoffs.

 

[Wisq]

You check out the review I linked to? Because their conclusion was that it wasn't that big a deal -- it performed pretty well, even with a video card fast enough that 4X is a limiting factor.

 

[ghostwalker]

Just thought I'd bump this topic as I'm still looking into this issue and wondered if there are any new boards that may be about now.

Thanks.

 

[njdrew]

I just went threw this ordeal and found it easier to just upgrade my pc. In my case the problem was two fold. First all the mobos I looked at supported AGP and PCI-E, but didn't support one of my other components. Second, using a new CPU with all old supporting hardware won’t give you any significant results. In your case, your 350W power supply probably wont be enough to handle the C2D and all you other components. Your ram, which I assume to be DDR, may or may not be supported by the mobo.

The other problem I noticed while researching is that almost all if not all of them, the PCI-E slot were only 8X max not 16x. So when I did get around to updating to PCIe I was going to be at an automatic disadvantage.

With that being said I will come back later and post my research and maybe you will be luckier than me and find a mobo that will work for you.

 

[Anoobis]

You're not entirely correct.

Anandtech has done a few articles on this subject:

ASRock 775Dual-VSTA: Does DDR2 matter?

Intel Core 2 Duo: Memory Performance Part Deux

ASRock Core 2 Duo: AGP/PCI Express Graphics Performance, Part Tres

The performance hit of using a 4X PCI-E is rather small compared to full 8X AGP so the OP won't notice much of a difference (if any depending on the PCI-E card they go with) when they upgrade to a PCI-E card. C2D architecture is very efficient and if their current system works with a 350W PSU, then the C2D setup shouldn't have any problems either if they don't plan to OC.

 

[Crashman]

PCIe and AGP can work well on the same board if each controller gets its own Northbridge. This was how ULi got away with it on its M1695/M1597 combination.

 

[njdrew]

You're not entirely correct.

Anandtech has done a few articles on this subject:

ASRock 775Dual-VSTA: Does DDR2 matter?

Intel Core 2 Duo: Memory Performance Part Deux

ASRock Core 2 Duo: AGP/PCI Express Graphics Performance, Part Tres

The performance hit of using a 4X PCI-E is rather small compared to full 8X AGP so the OP won't notice much of a difference (if any depending on the PCI-E card they go with) when they upgrade to a PCI-E card. C2D architecture is very efficient and if their current system works with a 350W PSU, then the C2D setup shouldn't have any problems either if they don't plan to OC.

Im sorry I didn't make my point clear. My point was when he goes to PCIe he will be limited to 4x/8x as compared to 16x on most other motherboards. With that in mind the video card will be the bottle neck to most of the new games out. Given he will see some performance gain, but not as much as a PCIe 16x mobo.

My PSU comment was wrong. After looking it up and running it threw the calc he will use less power with the C2D than his current P4 2.8. My apologies.

 

[Anoobis]

No you made your point clear, it was I who didn't make my point clear. Sorry.

Anandtech's article notes that the performance difference is rather small (about 5%) between using 8X AGP and 4X PCI-E. AGP graphics cards don't fully utilize the bandwidth of an 8X AGP slot. Current PCI-E graphics cards don't come close to fully utilizing the bandwidth available on 16X PCI-E slots. Since mosts tests have shown the difference between 8X AGP cards and their counterpart 16X PCI-E cards (i.e. the AGP 7600GT & the PCI-E 7600GT) is nil, the difference between 4X PCI-E performance and 16X PCI-E performance will most likely be close to that 5% hit and not a very limiting factor.

 

[njdrew]

No you made your point clear, it was I who didn't make my point clear. Sorry.

Anandtech's article notes that the performance difference is rather small (about 5%) between using 8X AGP and 4X PCI-E. AGP graphics cards don't fully utilize the bandwidth of an 8X AGP slot. Current PCI-E graphics cards don't come close to fully utilizing the bandwidth available on 16X PCI-E slots. Since mosts tests have shown the difference between 8X AGP cards and their counterpart 16X PCI-E cards (i.e. the AGP 7600GT & the PCI-E 7600GT) is nil, the difference between 4X PCI-E performance and 16X PCI-E performance will most likely be close to that 5% hit and not a very limiting factor.

I see where you got the 5% from in that article. Although I know PCIe x16 doesn't run at its true potential in todays apps, I find only a 5% difference between 4x and 16x hard to swallow.

I went looking for my old links, but apparently I lost them. I remember newegg carrying 2 different motherboards that supported C2D, AGP & PCIe, but searching there now I dont see any. The Asrock was one and I thought the other was ECS, but I cant seem to find it now.

 

[ghostwalker]

Thanks for all your comments guys. I think I'll go ahead and order the AsRock M/B and the E6600. Thanks again.

 

[Anoobis]

Good luck with that man.

@njdrew, there were a few boards on the market that did have both a PCI-E and an AGP that had horrific performance. I don't recall the exact details, but I believe it involved running one of the slots (either the AGP or PCI-E, don't recall for sure) through the PCI bus. Those could be the boards you were thinking of and I believe ECS was one of the manufacturers of one of them. As far as I know, the Asrock boards didn't suffer from this issue.

 

[caamsa]

This is the mother board I have in 2 systems and I have had zero problems with it. It is a 939 board though.....so if you want intel that board does not have a 16x pci-e like my board.

This board works great and the PCI-E, AGP do not slow each other down. If you wanted you could run a pic, pci-e and an agp video card all on the same board.

O yea Anoobis is right there is a version of the agp slots (agp pro or something like that) that is not a full speed slot. Avoid that make sure it says 4x 8x agp. [/b]



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157097