RD600 w00t!

[apt403]

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2891&p=1

first offical review ive seen.

 

[YO_KID37]

Seems to be a great Crossfire Update and According to Power consumption it's significantly lower at consuming power while providing you with clone like performance with all the extreme Intel and Nvidia Boards, It's befitting to say because of the power consumption it's a better board, and can give you over clocking similar to the Intel Board, if done carefully and with a proper cooler. And may overclock similar to the best if Tweaked just right with an Upgraded cooler.

 

[minim3]

Shouldn't this been on the m/b section?

And from what I've read about this mobo is....uttter cr@p. To all who have been waiting for the ATi/DFI solution to chose a m/b for their next upgrade I have to say one thing: hahahahaha, you have waited for nothing. You could have been better off with a 975 or 965 since last summer!!!! I mean what is so special about this m/b??? 2x8 lane + 1x2 lane pci-e? The only good thing about it is power consumption. But in the enthusiast segment, who's gonna care about it?

 

[Pippero]

Why better off with 975 of 965?
In which regards did you see these chipsets outperforming it?

 

[Pippero]

Seems to be a great Crossfire Update and According to Power consumption it's significantly lower at consuming power while providing you with clone like performance with all the extreme Intel and Nvidia Boards

It's amazing what a power hog the nVidia 680i is.
Perhaps AMD should have really gone for an Ati solution with 4x4... :?

 

[minim3]

did I say that?
I simply pointed out that waiting 6 months for 100 points in sisandra or whatever isn't worth it. It is marginally better at some. So what about it?

 

[Pippero]

And from what I've read about this mobo is....uttter cr@p.

 

[minim3]

And from what I've read about this mobo is....uttter cr@p.

*

what was it that johny storm always said?

FLAME ON!!!!

*that was to heat things up!

 

[Pippero]

:roll:
okay, that's not my ideal type of discussion, so...
enjoy!

 

[minim3]

ok (civilized mode on!). From what you have read about this mobo, can you justify waiting 6 months for it? Is it truly that awesome? And why DFI is the only manufacturer supporting this chipset?

 

[Pippero]

Well, waiting 6 months, probably not, except maybe for the slightly improved Xfire support.
I think it's a good mobo to buy today, but i don't see much sense into waiting for a mobo, unless it's because of a socket change which gives you a better future upgrade path.
From what i capture from the article (which i've just been skipping through anyway), my understanding is that DFI did a lot to design this mobo and helped Ati/AMD tuning its performance.
I guess this means they'll enjoy the exclusivity for a while then.

 

[YO_KID37]

Seems to be a great Crossfire Update and According to Power consumption it's significantly lower at consuming power while providing you with clone like performance with all the extreme Intel and Nvidia Boards

It's amazing what a power hog the nVidia 680i is.
Perhaps AMD should have really gone for an Ati solution with 4x4... :?

AMD only did the 680i chips it gave Nvidia the bate, to keep Nvidia on their Good Side. If they went with ATI as their First Chipset, Nvidia would have pulled out from providing AMD anymore Chipsets or at least quality ones, on basis of them owning their Only Competitor ATI. *
Otherwise if or should i say when AMD does smarten up and eventually(secretly) release ATI Crossfire 4x4 boards, I would expect that those ATI based Boards would crunch down on the Nvidia 4x4 by a wide margin In both performance equavilance or even dominance while cutting down power consumption significantly allowing 4x4 to be within a power envelope to directly compete with Kentsfield and Clovertown, until the birth of K8L Quad cores by Mid 07.

 

[minim3]

Well, waiting 6 months, probably not, except maybe for the slightly improved Xfire support.
I think it's a good mobo to buy today, but i don't see much sense into waiting for a mobo, unless it's because of a socket change which gives you a better future upgrade path.
From what i capture from the article (which i've just been skipping through anyway), my understanding is that DFI did a lot to design this mobo and helped Ati/AMD tuning its performance.
I guess this means they'll enjoy the exclusivity for a while then.

I can't really consider from a buyers view that this chipset is provided by an exclusive manufacturer, is a good thing. Concerning troubleshooting and debug, I would think the more the merrier. Also, is it really future-proof? There have been talks about ATi's chipset division focusing exclusively on AMD cpu solutions. Nothing concrete, but it's there. Baring in mind that we are talking about the enthusiast segment of the market. I can't see others care what is under the hood, just how much it costs. DFI lanparty mobos for AMD were legendary, probably the best choice.

Taking all these into account I can only say that it came (to the market) a little too late. Yes, it's gonna be bought from some. But had it been at the launch of C2D maybe it stood a chance.

 

[pat]

ok (civilized mode on!). From what you have read about this mobo, can you justify waiting 6 months for it? Is it truly that awesome? And why DFI is the only manufacturer supporting this chipset?

Some people waited 6 month for Core2... so another 6 month should not be a problem..

 

[minim3]

ok (civilized mode on!). From what you have read about this mobo, can you justify waiting 6 months for it? Is it truly that awesome? And why DFI is the only manufacturer supporting this chipset?

Some people waited 6 month for Core2... so another 6 month should not be a problem..

hmm. Ok, let me see if I got it right.
Lets say that right now there is a rumor that a new m/b-chipset will come out that outperforms the current etc etc. So you will wait another 6 months just to see if thats true? There is always something new coming every 6-9 months. If you always wait for something better, then you gonna wait a looooong time.

My advice is: if you really need the processing power of c2d right now (for gaming or video editing or whatever), buy it now. If you can afford to wait, there is always the chance that something better is coming sooner or later. But I'm pretty sure that c2d or quad is gonna be what we all gonna hear about at least for the next 2 years. Just like AMD 64 was for the last 3 years.

 

[Pippero]

Otherwise if or should i say when AMD does smarten up and eventually(secretly) release ATI Crossfire 4x4 boards, I would expect that those ATI based Boards would crunch down on the Nvidia 4x4 by a wide margin In both performance equavilance or even dominance while cutting down power consumption significantly allowing 4x4 to be within a power envelope to directly compete with Kentsfield and Clovertown, until the birth of K8L Quad cores by Mid 07.

Hmm, no, a chipset can't help 4x4 in performance.
That's because the memory controller, which is the only component which has an influence on CPU performance, it's in the CPU, not in the chipset, for AMD.
However, at load the 680i seems to use 75W (!!) more power than the RD600, and 4x4 uses 2 northbridges.
I expect 680a (4x4) to use less power than 680i however, since 680a does not have a memory conroller.
Still, with 2 northbridge chips on 4x4, maybe using an ATi chipset could result in 70-100W lower than the current solution, which would certainly be beneficial, albeit i don't think that 4x4 could compete with Kentsfield even in power consumption.

 

[minim3]

Otherwise if or should i say when AMD does smarten up and eventually(secretly) release ATI Crossfire 4x4 boards, I would expect that those ATI based Boards would crunch down on the Nvidia 4x4 by a wide margin In both performance equavilance or even dominance while cutting down power consumption significantly allowing 4x4 to be within a power envelope to directly compete with Kentsfield and Clovertown, until the birth of K8L Quad cores by Mid 07.

Hmm, no, a chipset can't help 4x4 in performance.
That's because the memory controller, which is the only component which has an influence on CPU performance, it's in the CPU, not in the chipset, for AMD.
However, at load the 680i seems to use 75W (!!) more power than the RD600, and 4x4 uses 2 northbridges.
I expect 680a (4x4) to use less power than 680i however, since 680a does not have a memory conroller.
Still, with 2 northbridge chips on 4x4, maybe using an ATi chipset could result in 70-100W lower than the current solution, which would certainly be beneficial, albeit i don't think that 4x4 could compete with Kentsfield even in power consumption.

does the extra 75W include the cpu consumption, ram etc? Or is it solely responsible the northbridge about the extra wattage?

 

[Pippero]

I can't really consider from a buyers view that this chipset is provided by an exclusive manufacturer, is a good thing. Concerning troubleshooting and debug, I would think the more the merrier. Also, is it really future-proof?

As is said, probably after some months other manufacturers will be able to produce mobos based on this chipset.
AMD traditionally used only a few select manufacturers at launch of its chipsets anyway.
Concerning future-proof, it is, as much as any other Core2 S775 mobo is...

There have been talks about ATi's chipset division focusing exclusively on AMD cpu solutions. Nothing concrete, but it's there.

Yes, i'd expect them so, also their licence for the Intel bus, if i remember correctly, will expire soon.
But so what?
I don't think that future ATi products for Intel, or the lack thereof, is relevant in the decision to buy an RD600.

Taking all these into account I can only say that it came (to the market) a little too late. Yes, it's gonna be bought from some. But had it been at the launch of C2D maybe it stood a chance.

Price is certainly gonna be important.
But if the price is right, i think this mobo can be pretty successful, as nVidia's 680i will be.
Intel's 965 chipset is becoming outdated (and its performance is inferior to the 975 which was benchmarked against Ati and nVidia).
For people who's buying today (which is the vast majority of the market, until now it was only the early adopters among the enthusiasts who bought Core 2), if the price is right, RD600 is an excellent choice.

 

[Pippero]

does the extra 75W include the cpu consumption, ram etc? Or is it solely responsible the northbridge about the extra wattage?

75W should be the difference in consumption of the whole system.
But since the systems are equipped with exactly the same components, then this should mean that the chipset alone is responsible for the difference.
Now, that for 4x4 would make 2x75 = 150W.
But i assume the delta to be smaller there, since the AMD chipsets don't have a memory controller.
Hence i've speculated a possible overall difference of 70-100W, instead of 150W.

 

[minim3]

Price is certainly gonna be important.
But if the price is right, i think this mobo can be pretty successful, as nVidia's 680i will be.
Intel's 965 chipset is becoming outdated (and its performance is inferior to the 975 which was benchmarked against Ati and nVidia).
For people who's buying today (which is the vast majority of the market, until now it was only the early adopters among the enthusiasts who bought Core 2), if the price is right, RD600 is an excellent choice.

I still fail to see how a 680i priced at 300$ is a success. 2 years ago, would you consider paying 300$ for a m/b? But now it seems that paying that much for a m/b is a given. But thats just my 2 cents.

 

[minim3]

does the extra 75W include the cpu consumption, ram etc? Or is it solely responsible the northbridge about the extra wattage?

75W should be the difference in consumption of the whole system.
But since the systems are equipped with exactly the same components, then this should mean that the chipset alone is responsible for the difference.
Now, that for 4x4 would make 2x75 = 150W.
But i assume the delta to be smaller there, since the AMD chipsets don't have a memory controller.
Hence i've speculated a possible overall difference of 70-100W, instead of 150W.

Well now you got me thinking about something else, still related. Isn't it supposed that the integrated memory controller of amd cpu's was done to simply reduce the latencies and increase the bandwidth of those 2? Except that, is there also significantly greater wattage consumption included? (never heard of this b4).

 

[Pippero]

Hmm, well i agree, and i think you can get many good boards for half that price.
But the 680i (and the 975 as well) are clearly target at the very high end; that's why nVidia has also launched the 650i line.
BTW, i haven't seen any review yet about these 2 cheaper solutions.. i wonder if they overclock as well, even though they don't have all the bells&whistles.
nVidia ranks these chipsets, for FSB overclock, as "Good", while the 680i as "Best".
But that could just be their marketing buzzwords.

 

[Pippero]

I think i probably didn't explain it clearly.
4x4 has an abnormal power consumption.
Part of this is due to the use of 2 CPUs which have a high TDP by themselves (the FX-7x).
Another part is due to the use of 2 northbridges (to have 4 PCI-Express slots, 2x 16x + 2x 8x).
Now these northbridges are from nVidia's 680a chipset, which is a derivative of the 680i: the difference between those 2 is that the 680i has a memory controller, and the 680a doesn't (or shouldn't, since AMD CPU's have the IMC).
Now, we have just seen that the 680i is a power hog, consuming 75W more than the RD600; so my speculation is, that if 4x4 used 2x 680i chipsets, then it would consume 150W more than using 2x RD600 chipsets.
But 4x4 does not use the 680i, it uses the 680a, which probably consumes less power due to not having a memory controller.
Then my guess is, that by using a (non-existent) RD600a based on the RD600 (without memory controller), 4x4 could save some power, probably less than 150W, but maybe in the range 75-100W.

 

[weskurtz81]

I wouldn't say there a significant power increase. But there must be some power increase. Which is what is very interesting about the 65nm chips from AMD. With the memory controller on the cpu, and 200mhz higher clock than the 6600 Conroe, the power consupmtion is pretty close. I thought that was fairly impressive, the shrink yielded great power consumtion decrease.

As far as the ATI board, no one should wait for a new motherboard chipset, unless maybe it is a few weeks away. But, if I were buying today, I would go with the ATI based board, because it performs just as well as all the others, and it uses less power, which gives it the passive cooler. I have always been a fan of the DFI lanparty, I owned a few of them, but I hated the stock fan, it was loud and cheap. If I could get away with a passive cooler, and not sacrifice performance, I am sold...... that's all it has to be for me. Also, does 2 16x lanes offer any performance increase? Are these cards bottlenecked by the PCI E lanes? I don't think they are, but, if I am wrong, let me know.

wes

 

[minim3]

Let me see if I got right this time around then!
Intel based m/b having the memory controller in the n/b are prone to have higher wattage consumption? In the case of 680i, some 75W more?