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Pentium D: I needs help :(

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December 18, 2006 3:12:26 AM

Hey peeps.

Long story short... using an 820D with asus p5nd2-sli.
Sum1 here was kind enuf 2 point out this chip isnt fully compatible with this board, and will only use 1 core.

A few questions...

1. Will this severely limit my OS/Game performance?

2. OC 820 vs 805.
820 = 3.5Ghz, 250(1000Mhz) (14x)
805? = 3.8Ghz, 190(760Hmz) (20x)
Which will generally be faster?

Should i keep the 820 with 1 core or swap back to my old 805 furnace.

Thanks

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December 18, 2006 3:52:35 AM

805 will probably win both in single or multi-threaded apps coz its at a higher clock speed and can use both cores. It will be close in single, but it will kill the 820 in multi coz it can use both cores. Then again, it does only use a 533MHz FSB stock, so that may change things. Check the cpu charts.
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December 18, 2006 3:56:10 AM

Odd that the D805 wins so many times even at stock according to charts. It runs slower and with a lower FSB, with RAM also running slower :? You sure the 820 has 2 cores? :wink:
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December 18, 2006 4:35:23 AM

Someone flat out lied to you. The P5ND2 supports the P4Ds just fine. (it doesn't support the newer C2D CPUs.) Proof is here.

If your using it and don't get both cores showing in windows, then you might need to reinstall windows so you can have the ACPI Multiprocessor driver installed instead of the ACPI uniprocessor. (you might/should be able to update the driver in the device manager.) Without looking at the bios list, it might need a bios update to support dual core CPUs. Last, someone might have sold you a single core chip instead of the 820. (which is a dual core CPU.) Run CPUz to check what you have.
December 18, 2006 4:57:50 AM

My question is why would you buy a d820 if you already have a d805.
The d805, due to the low stock FSB and high multiplier, is a much more OC friendly chip. Yes, it's hot ... but what do you expect from a Prescott core :) 

Unless you are running 800FSB or higher DDR2 ram in your system, the difference in bus speeds between an overclocked d805 (@190fsb) and an slightly overclocked d820 (220fsb) is irrelevant. In fact, even if you did have the fast DDR2 ram, I dont think you'd see much of a noticeable difference.

If you're running your rig with 533Mhz or 667 DDR2 ram, your theoretical FSB bandwidth exceeds the maximum RAM bandwidth with the d820 (4*200 fsb). The CPU can basically transfer/read data faster than the memory can store/provide it. This is called a bottleneck :) 

I had a guy in my embedded systems design class who matched a prehistric 68k CPU to some fairly modern SRAM as part of his final course project. If costs scaled appropriately with component speed, that would have been a huge waste. Kinda like using 6 inch wheels on a Viper.
December 18, 2006 5:09:46 AM

Yeah, ive run CPU-z, says 820D, one core, one thread. Even pulled the sink off, says 820.

Have reinstalled windows a few times, still no joy.

After scouring the net over the last few hours instead of working, ive found with this board it takes a massive $h!t when using intelD proc with 14x multiplier. Hence it only uses 1 core. (Which would also explain my unusually low temps too.) Any other multiplier works fine, go figure :?

After speaking to the PC shop where i got it from, they confirmed this chip did have a prob after looking into it. Suggested i 'should' be able to change it, but still waiting on a call from sum1.

Even if i have2 pay, ill take the opportunity to get a 9xx chip. The asus website says this mobo doesnt support 9xx, (yet one of the asus reps says it does) :? , all reports say any D works fine on this board, as long as no 14x!!!

Ill post again when (if) i get a call back.

Oh ^^^

Ive got nearly 10 PC's for work and home, so if one gets upgraded, the old parts often go 2 a slower sys, and so on.
December 18, 2006 5:34:32 AM

Quote:
If you're running your rig with 533Mhz or 667 DDR2 ram, your theoretical FSB bandwidth exceeds the maximum RAM bandwidth with the d820 (4*200 fsb). The CPU can basically transfer/read data faster than the memory can store/provide it. This is called a bottleneck :) 


DDR2 @ 533Mhz is running at 266Mhz and 667Mhz is running @ 333Mhz (double-data rate) so you not going to have memory bottleneck with a 200Mhz FSB. DDR400 runs at a 1:1 ratio with Pentium 4s. Anything faster than that and your going to have excess memory bandwidth, which works fine.
December 18, 2006 5:34:43 AM

805->820 is a negligible upgrade.

805->915 is a much better upgrade, saving for a new motherboard and going 805->e6300 is a HELL of a lot better upgrade.

Seriously, all netburst chips suck. I had a D805 @ 3.8GHz. It sucked compared to my Athlon64 3800+ (which my parents have now) and it really sucks compared to my current e6700.
December 18, 2006 5:37:19 AM

Quote:
Hey peeps.

Long story short... using an 820D with asus p5nd2-sli.
Sum1 here was kind enuf 2 point out this chip isnt fully compatible with this board, and will only use 1 core.

A few questions...

1. Will this severely limit my OS/Game performance?

2. OC 820 vs 805.
820 = 3.5Ghz, 250(1000Mhz) (14x)
805? = 3.8Ghz, 190(760Hmz) (20x)
Which will generally be faster?

Should i keep the 820 with 1 core or swap back to my old 805 furnace.

Thanks



I have the same mb with 830. you need to flash your bios and have it 1101. you will see two cores. It supports pd but you need to use updated bios in order to use two cores.
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December 18, 2006 5:40:08 AM

Well I'alll be. Learned something new today, thankyou. Looking on Asus's website, the 820D is NOT on the supported list of CPUs. Doing a quick search online I ran across a site claiming that there is a problem with the NF4 and the 14x multiplier. (I also ran across people in forums who had the P5ND2-SLI and the 820D who weren't complaining about this. Maybe they hadn't noticed?)

I personally would try to keep the 820D, sell the 805D+P5ND2-SLI before nobody wants them anymore, and move to a 965/975 based motherboard. From what I understand, the 820D still overclocks very well, and generates less heat. If you lack the $$$, then yes, moving back to the 805D would be better. 2 faster moving cores are better then one slower one. (performance speaking)
December 18, 2006 7:25:22 AM

Quote:
If you're running your rig with 533Mhz or 667 DDR2 ram, your theoretical FSB bandwidth exceeds the maximum RAM bandwidth with the d820 (4*200 fsb). The CPU can basically transfer/read data faster than the memory can store/provide it. This is called a bottleneck :) 


DDR2 @ 533Mhz is running at 266Mhz and 667Mhz is running @ 333Mhz (double-data rate) so you not going to have memory bottleneck with a 200Mhz FSB. DDR400 runs at a 1:1 ratio with Pentium 4s. Anything faster than that and your going to have excess memory bandwidth, which works fine.

The 200Mhz FSB is actually 800. Just like DDR means that the RAM internal clock speed is 2x the external bus speed , 200*4FSB means that the P4 "internal bus speed" is 4x the "external" bus speed. It just means that the bus is "sampled" at 4x the clock rate.
DDR is simple to understand. Generate your internal timing on the rise AND falling edge of your input clock. The intel 4 clocks per FSB cycle is a little more confusing, but same principle.
Do you really think that people are using 533,667,800 and 1066 Mhz ram when according to your theory even the CORE2s (whose bus speed is 266*4 at stock) can only take advantage of 533Mhz DDR?
The fact that higher clocked RAM doesnt offer significant improvement is unrelated to the fact that a regular 800FSB P4 system actually needs 800Mhz (or 400 * 2) DDR ram to function optimally. It has to do with the fact that not every CPU cycle is a RAM access cycle, and that there is also a necessary refresh cycle interleaved in regular bus access cycles that eats into performance. Those are the main reasons.

I have no reason to lie to you, I deal with similar issues on a daily basis at work. I dont work with the kind of DDR ram you use in PCs nowadays, but its close enough.
December 18, 2006 9:56:57 AM

Yeah broz...
Asus also say many/all of the 9xx are not supported too :?

Ne way, after a chat to teh pc shop i managed to upgrade it to a 925. Which the tech assured me would not be compatible. I assured him he was an idiot and just sort it out. Well, after a scare caused by my water block not seating properly, and temps going crazy...
The 925 works perfik, already got it to 3.8Ghz, prob the limit with this shitty mobo.

It seems this board just has a bug with 14x multipliers (820 and 920)

Just ran a few quick tests..
1950xt, 12x10 rez...
Oblivion max will hold above 30fps outdoors
Fear max (minus soft shadows) 96% above 40fps
So it all looks sweet
Also ran prime for a few min, both cores load up fine :) 

As for the inevitable c2d... ill get there, but ive neva been a huge computa geek, and a just spent $$$ on a custom water sys (post/pix soon) and a 1950xt, and given the fps im getting ill hang onto this one 4 a bit.

Thanks guys :p 

PS not sure abt the 1101 bois? Just checked the p5nd2-sli is on 0605 :?
Either way... 830 will use 15/16x? multi which wont cause ne probz
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December 18, 2006 10:50:02 AM

Quote:
My question is why would you buy a d820 if you already have a d805.
The d805, due to the low stock FSB and high multiplier, is a much more OC friendly chip. Yes, it's hot ... but what do you expect from a Prescott core :) 


I find that a little hard to believe, considering the 920 was so much easier to overclock than the 805. Grab an 800 bus processor, up the VCORE, and jump strait to 1066 bus. Can't get much easier than that.

Are you saying the 820 wouldn't handle that kind of jump?
December 18, 2006 11:10:47 AM

Quote:
Grab an 800 bus processor, up the VCORE, and jump strait to 1066 bus. Can't get much easier than that.

Are you saying the 820 wouldn't handle that kind of jump?


It sure as $h!t couldnt cope wif it on the p5nd2-sli
:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
But i now firmly believe it IS A $4!ttY board.
Other asus agp mobo + 805 = 3.6 on air
Current mobo + 925 = 3.8 on water.

:? :? :?

But yes, id agree, Ghz/multipliers are often favoured over bus speed and nm's
December 18, 2006 11:22:56 AM

You needs help? You first needs to LERN 2 INGLISH!
December 18, 2006 1:00:29 PM

Quote:
My question is why would you buy a d820 if you already have a d805.
The d805, due to the low stock FSB and high multiplier, is a much more OC friendly chip. Yes, it's hot ... but what do you expect from a Prescott core :) 


I find that a little hard to believe, considering the 920 was so much easier to overclock than the 805. Grab an 800 bus processor, up the VCORE, and jump strait to 1066 bus. Can't get much easier than that.

Are you saying the 820 wouldn't handle that kind of jump?

I never had an 920 or 820. I do have a d805 however, and if (with similarly HIGH heat levels), a 100$ chip can take you to 4 Ghz on a standard 800FSB bus (that most modern MBs support anyway), why bother buying a more expensive chip and upping the FSB to 1066, increasing heat on several MB components, to achieve an inferior speed of 3.73Ghz? That was my point.
December 18, 2006 1:52:41 PM

Don't be a dick ducky, we can all understand what he is saying. He is obviously from another country where english is not the primary language. And, it is obvious that he is trying to learn english.

wes
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December 18, 2006 2:40:06 PM

No, you have it backwards. The "inferior" 3.73GHz comes with LESS stress to the motherboard. A 920 gets to EE965 speeds at lower voltages that in takes to get an 805 to 4GHz. It takes less cooling, draws less power from the motherboard, cost less to operate, and its higher bus speed allows it to provide at least similar performance. It's a better overall solution, and it probably cost less when you factor in how much cooling each rig takes.
December 18, 2006 8:41:23 PM

Quote:
Do you really think that people are using 533,667,800 and 1066 Mhz ram when according to your theory even the CORE2s (whose bus speed is 266*4 at stock) can only take advantage of 533Mhz DDR?


Dude, a P4 system with an 800Mhz (4x200) FSB does not need DDR2 800 to function at its best. With DDR 400 the P4 would be running at a 1:1 ratio. i.e. 200Mhx internal FSB = 200Mhz internal RAM clock. This is a best case scenario. Yes it is true that even on new core2 systems, DDR2 533 is all you need to run a 1:1 ratio. People buying DDR2 667, 800, 1066 are mainly doing so in order to overclock. You will see minor performance improvements from running RAM at a higher internal clock that the FSB, but not too much.
December 18, 2006 9:30:38 PM

Quote:
Grab an 800 bus processor, up the VCORE, and jump strait to 1066 bus. Can't get much easier than that.

Are you saying the 820 wouldn't handle that kind of jump?


It sure as $h!t couldnt cope wif it on the p5nd2-sli
:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
But i now firmly believe it IS A $4!ttY board.
Other asus agp mobo + 805 = 3.6 on air
Current mobo + 925 = 3.8 on water.

:? :? :?

But yes, id agree, Ghz/multipliers are often favoured over bus speed and nm's


I have P5N32SLI and a 805D on a zalman cnp9500 with a antech nine hundred case at 3.9GHZ, full load 58 degrees celcius, that is according to the softwear monitor which i am told maybe inaccurate.

FSB=780 1:1 444 12 5 2
December 18, 2006 10:39:12 PM

Quote:
You needs help? You first needs to LERN 2 INGLISH!


Wow, gee, oh no, you cut me deep there.
Thats pretty funny u know, is that how u broke your nose?

Just FYI, not that i need to explain myself to peepz like you, or justify any slang, acronyms, or intentional typos i may use.

I live in Australia, i grew up speaking English and am still, althought to a lesser extent these days, fluent in four languages, including a few you may not be able to pronounce.

I graduated from the best ranked school, and university in Australia. My first IQ test when i was five years old rated me as 'gifted' or so i hear. Numerous professionally administered tests, including one by the Army, rated me as anything from 'gifted' to borderline genius.
I now spend my time in a new business ive just purchased earlier this year, where i manage about 20 staff and sub contractors. A year from now i will fully own a house, car, boat, bike, and business, assets exceeding $1M AUD
Oh, and did i mention im 25?

So im sorry to dissapoint u, im not some bumbling fumbling NESP idiot.
Dont be angry ducky. Dont h8 the playa h8 the game.

BTW... while ur at it, you could AT LEAST been a little more creative.. come on... "INGLISH"???
What happened to engrish, niglish. Poor effort really.

Back tot he topic tho...
DAYAM Robot... 3.9 on air! Thats KRAZY. Under full loads my 805 would be an inch from thermal shutdown at 3.5 on zalman beetle. With water now it never goes above 40c
:D  :D  :D 
December 19, 2006 5:36:35 PM

i think its because of my low require vcore that i started out with, it registered at 1.288 vcore so i think thats why i had so much head room for overclocking.
December 19, 2006 6:14:27 PM

Quote:
i think its because of my low require vcore that i started out with, it registered at 1.288 vcore so i think thats why i had so much head room for overclocking.


ok well i m running a Pentium d 830 on a asus p5nd2 sli board... and my 830 was registering as a single core in windows for some time.. Until I final flashed/updated the bios.. i have heard of the 820 not being a compatible dual core cpu on some boards though. i highly recommend that you update your bios and then try the 820.
December 19, 2006 8:37:54 PM

im not sure why you quoted me?
!