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daylight savings time / quark express

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Last response: in Windows 2000/NT
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April 1, 2005 8:54:20 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.general (More info?)

it was brought to my attention that there is an issue between quark and
files stored in Windows 2000 file shares revolving around time stamping of
the files.

this link

http://www.quark.com/service/desktop/support/techinfo/t...

shows that quark recommends shutting of automatic daylight savings time.

i've googled the issue, and it seems like it's a well known problem without
a solution.

i manage an IT Data Center with a marketing group that has gigabytes of
quark files. every spring/fall, this issue causes them much pain in that
they have to be irritated by quark telling them that the file has been
modified.

is there any known issues or ways of solving this?
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 11:07:25 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.general (More info?)

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your post.

My understanding on this issue is that there is an issue between quark and
files stored in Windows 2000 file shares revolving around time stamping of
the files. You manage an IT Data Center with a marketing group that has
gigabytes of quark files. Every spring/fall, this issue causes them much
pain in that they have to be irritated by quark telling them that the file
has been modified. If I have misunderstood your concern, please feel free
to let me know.

In Windows NT4, Quark Software reports this to be a known issue.
http://www.quark.com/service/desktop/support/techinfo/t...

I have searched in our database and found that the cause is that Quark does
not appear to be utilizing the UTC time/date encoding schema. Problem
appears to be with Quark and that they keep the date/time of the file in
the embedding data string rather than the UTC time. This is why Quark has
the problem with Daylight Savings Time.

Based on my research, Quark's latest version is reported to no longer have
the time issue when Daylight Savings Time occurs.

Additional Information for your reference:

File times do not changed by Windows at the time of Daylight Savings Time
as stated by Quark Software.
Imagine changing every file stamp on every file on a SAN array in less than
10 seconds, then changing it back. Not likely we are going to change the
time stamp on hundreds of thousands of files... twice in a matter of
seconds.

There is an MSDN article that states how dates are stored and interpreted
by Windows.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/libr...
e/file_times.asp

A file time is a 64-bit value that represents the number of 100-nanosecond
intervals that have elapsed since 12:00 A.M. January 1, 1601 (UTC). The
system records file times whenever applications create, access, and write
to files. FAT records file times in local time. NTFS records file times
natively in FILETIME format, so they are not affected by changes in time
zone or daylight saving time.

Not all file systems can record creation and last access times and not all
file systems record them in the same manner. For example, on FAT, create
time has a resolution of 10 milliseconds, write time has a resolution of 2
seconds, and access time has a resolution of 1 day (really, the access
date). NTFS delays updates to the last access time for a file by up to one
hour after the last access.

Additionally, the Microsoft Knowledge Base article:
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=158588 states:

When Windows NT automatically adjusts for Daylight Savings Time, the
time/date stamp on files on NTFS volumes and the events in the event logs
appear to be shifted by one hour, even though the files and event records
were last created/changed prior to the Daylight Savings Time adjustment.

This behavior occurs because of the way that Windows NT stores time/date
stamp information. All time/dates displayed in Event Log events and files
on NTFS partitions are computed as offsets to UTC (which is the same as
Greenwich Mean Time [GMT]). When you select your time-zone from the Control
Panel Date/Time applet, you are setting the value for UTC. The appropriate
number of hours are then added or subtracted to/from the stored UTC value.
This adjusted time is then displayed in any operation which reports local
time (that is, NT Explorer [NT 4.0], File Manager, directory listings, and
so on). When "Automatically Adjust for Daylight Savings Time" is selected,
an additional hour is added to GMT during Daylight Savings Time (the first
Sunday in April through the last Sunday in October).

Hope that helps and thanks for your understanding.

Thanks & Regards

Amanda Wang [MSFT]

Microsoft Online Partner Support

Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security

====================================================================

When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
that others may learn and benefit from your issue.

=====================================================================
April 4, 2005 1:30:24 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.general (More info?)

Amanda, what a wonderful reply!

thank you so much for your help! i'm very grateful!


"Amanda Wang [MSFT]" <v-amanwa@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:p qX52TOOFHA.2540@TK2MSFTNGXA03.phx.gbl...
> Hi Bob,
>
> Thanks for your post.
>
> My understanding on this issue is that there is an issue between quark and
> files stored in Windows 2000 file shares revolving around time stamping of
> the files. You manage an IT Data Center with a marketing group that has
> gigabytes of quark files. Every spring/fall, this issue causes them much
> pain in that they have to be irritated by quark telling them that the file
> has been modified. If I have misunderstood your concern, please feel free
> to let me know.
>
> In Windows NT4, Quark Software reports this to be a known issue.
> http://www.quark.com/service/desktop/support/techinfo/t...
>
> I have searched in our database and found that the cause is that Quark
> does
> not appear to be utilizing the UTC time/date encoding schema. Problem
> appears to be with Quark and that they keep the date/time of the file in
> the embedding data string rather than the UTC time. This is why Quark has
> the problem with Daylight Savings Time.
>
> Based on my research, Quark's latest version is reported to no longer have
> the time issue when Daylight Savings Time occurs.
>
> Additional Information for your reference:
>
> File times do not changed by Windows at the time of Daylight Savings Time
> as stated by Quark Software.
> Imagine changing every file stamp on every file on a SAN array in less
> than
> 10 seconds, then changing it back. Not likely we are going to change the
> time stamp on hundreds of thousands of files... twice in a matter of
> seconds.
>
> There is an MSDN article that states how dates are stored and interpreted
> by Windows.
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/libr...
> e/file_times.asp
>
> A file time is a 64-bit value that represents the number of 100-nanosecond
> intervals that have elapsed since 12:00 A.M. January 1, 1601 (UTC). The
> system records file times whenever applications create, access, and write
> to files. FAT records file times in local time. NTFS records file times
> natively in FILETIME format, so they are not affected by changes in time
> zone or daylight saving time.
>
> Not all file systems can record creation and last access times and not all
> file systems record them in the same manner. For example, on FAT, create
> time has a resolution of 10 milliseconds, write time has a resolution of 2
> seconds, and access time has a resolution of 1 day (really, the access
> date). NTFS delays updates to the last access time for a file by up to one
> hour after the last access.
>
> Additionally, the Microsoft Knowledge Base article:
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=158588 states:
>
> When Windows NT automatically adjusts for Daylight Savings Time, the
> time/date stamp on files on NTFS volumes and the events in the event logs
> appear to be shifted by one hour, even though the files and event records
> were last created/changed prior to the Daylight Savings Time adjustment.
>
> This behavior occurs because of the way that Windows NT stores time/date
> stamp information. All time/dates displayed in Event Log events and files
> on NTFS partitions are computed as offsets to UTC (which is the same as
> Greenwich Mean Time [GMT]). When you select your time-zone from the
> Control
> Panel Date/Time applet, you are setting the value for UTC. The appropriate
> number of hours are then added or subtracted to/from the stored UTC value.
> This adjusted time is then displayed in any operation which reports local
> time (that is, NT Explorer [NT 4.0], File Manager, directory listings, and
> so on). When "Automatically Adjust for Daylight Savings Time" is selected,
> an additional hour is added to GMT during Daylight Savings Time (the first
> Sunday in April through the last Sunday in October).
>
> Hope that helps and thanks for your understanding.
>
> Thanks & Regards
>
> Amanda Wang [MSFT]
>
> Microsoft Online Partner Support
>
> Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
>
> ====================================================================
>
> When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
> that others may learn and benefit from your issue.
>
> =====================================================================
>
Related resources
April 4, 2005 4:51:30 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.general (More info?)

Well, I've looked into it a bit more.

It appears that the MAC OS is getting the UTC time and displaying it in
their file browser.

On any windows machine, Windows 98/2000/xp/2003 are adjusting the file date
/ time to reflect for time zone and daylight savings time.

So for example, there's this one file that shows being modified @ 11:42 on
the MACs and it's now showing 12:42 on all windows platforms.

So the MAC OS is seeming to show UTC time where the windows clients are
adjusting the time. WIth quark 5, it appears to be using basic Windows API
function calls to get the date time from the O/S. Since that time is
different from what the file has stored (UTC), it's saying that the file has
changed.



"Bob" <someone@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:o Jm2cVwNFHA.1392@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> it was brought to my attention that there is an issue between quark and
> files stored in Windows 2000 file shares revolving around time stamping of
> the files.
>
> this link
>
> http://www.quark.com/service/desktop/support/techinfo/t...
>
> shows that quark recommends shutting of automatic daylight savings time.
>
> i've googled the issue, and it seems like it's a well known problem
> without a solution.
>
> i manage an IT Data Center with a marketing group that has gigabytes of
> quark files. every spring/fall, this issue causes them much pain in that
> they have to be irritated by quark telling them that the file has been
> modified.
>
> is there any known issues or ways of solving this?
>
>
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 3:05:50 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.general (More info?)

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your response and appreciate your time and effort on this issue.

I'm very glad to see that you have understood the issue.

My understanding is that MAC is sent UTC.
The files on a PC/MAC file share, when altered, both show the same UTC
alteration.

So, regardless of what OS the file is altered on, the UTC will change.

Problem appears to be with Quark and that they keep the date/time of the
file in the embedding data string rather than the UTC time.
This is why Quark has the problem with Daylight Savings Time.

Hope that helps. If you have any other questions or concerns in the
future, please feel free to post here. I'm very glad to help you.

Thanks & Regards

Amanda Wang [MSFT]

Microsoft Online Partner Support

Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security

====================================================================

When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
that others may learn and benefit from your issue.

=====================================================================
!