AMD's 65nm Preview Part 2 - The Plot Thickens

[qurious69ss]

Not sure if anyone has posted this but things are not looking so good for Amd's 65nm transition. I can deal with it just being a "dumb" shrink and getting no performance from it, but now anand is saying that it actually performs worse then the 90nm chips on several applications due to memory latency. Well their goes the theory that Amd will only release a product when it is ready. Another interesting point is that their shrink is not that great considering that they have kept the same number of transistors....anyone have any ideas as to why? On the bright side it looks like Amd does have something good on the idle power consumption front.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2893

 

[clairvoyant129]

the new core is slower. We couldn't figure out why AMD made the change and with most of our key AMD contacts on vacation due to the holidays, we still have no official response on the matter. Rest assured that if/when we learn more we will let you know.

AMD really lost it now. :lol:

 

[qurious69ss]

the new core is slower. We couldn't figure out why AMD made the change and with most of our key AMD contacts on vacation due to the holidays, we still have no official response on the matter. Rest assured that if/when we learn more we will let you know.

AMD really lost it now. :lol:

You would think that they would be all over this and have someone at their PR department working the holidays to get their response to this. I guess they figure that only computer enthusiast really care about this subject. Well they do have dell now to sell to, who cares about the enthusiast market.

 

[1Tanker]

Not sure if anyone has posted this but things are not looking so good for Amd's 65nm transition. I can deal with it just being a "dumb" shrink and getting no performance from it, but now anand is saying that it actually performs worse then the 90nm chips on several applications due to memory latency. Well their goes the theory that Amd will only release a product when it is ready. Another interesting point is that their shrink is not that great considering that they have kept the same number of transistors....anyone have any ideas as to why? On the bright side it looks like Amd does have something good on the idle power consumption front.

It]http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2893

It looks like AMD just decided to release 65nm to slow the migration to C2D(before the process was up spec), and hope that loyalty would sell Brisbane.

 

[clairvoyant129]

the new core is slower. We couldn't figure out why AMD made the change and with most of our key AMD contacts on vacation due to the holidays, we still have no official response on the matter. Rest assured that if/when we learn more we will let you know.

AMD really lost it now. :lol:

You would think that they would be all over this and have someone at their PR department working the holidays to get their response to this. I guess they figure that only computer enthusiast really care about this subject. Well they do have dell now to sell to, who cares about the enthusiast market.

A pattern here perhaps?

Quad FX
Brisbane

What next? K8L a major flop? I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[1Tanker]

Not sure if anyone has posted this but things are not looking so good for Amd's 65nm transition. I can deal with it just being a "dumb" shrink and getting no performance from it, but now anand is saying that it actually performs worse then the 90nm chips on several applications due to memory latency. Well their goes the theory that Amd will only release a product when it is ready. Another interesting point is that their shrink is not that great considering that they have kept the same number of transistors....anyone have any ideas as to why? On the bright side it looks like Amd does have something good on the idle power consumption front.

Things]http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2893

Things just keep getting worse for AMD. I think they are beginning to see that things aren't so rosy, as they are now planning on dropping the PR rating(finally).

http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?tid=715237&starttime=0&endtime=0

 

[apache_lives]

*waits for flood of amd fanboy... er baron...*

 

[Julian33]

Ok, this is pretty bizarre :? I'm no expert but I can't think of any good reason why they would increase L2 latency - anyone got any ideas?

You have to admit this has not been a good half year for AMD - underwhelming performance increases in the best case for AM2, and performance drops with less than top notch memory, 4x4 ended up being a gimmick, and now this.

Let's hope that K8L makes up for this series of disappointments, or AMD is gonna be in big trouble.

 

[dasickninja]

AMD really lost it now. :lol:

Before we get too ahead of ourselves, let us not forget the P3 1.13GHz, Itanium, BTX and Netburst, which is pretty much one long string of f*ck ups from the guys at Intel. Logic states that everybody will screw up. Its just how you bounce back.

 

[Wombat2]

A pattern here perhaps?

Quad FX
Brisbane

What next? K8L a major flop? I wouldn't be surprised.

Well K8L definately ISNT going to beat the core arch:
Q3 K8L debut clock ~2.8 Ghz
Q3 core arch debut clocks ~3.8 Ghz

K8L has to be 30%+ faster clock-for-clock JUST TO PULL LEVEL.

To whup intel it would need to be 60%+ faster clock-for-clock which just isnt going to happen.

 

[BaronMatrix]

Not sure if anyone has posted this but things are not looking so good for Amd's 65nm transition. I can deal with it just being a "dumb" shrink and getting no performance from it, but now anand is saying that it actually performs worse then the 90nm chips on several applications due to memory latency. Well their goes the theory that Amd will only release a product when it is ready. Another interesting point is that their shrink is not that great considering that they have kept the same number of transistors....anyone have any ideas as to why? On the bright side it looks like Amd does have something good on the idle power consumption front.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2893

1. That's why ALL X2s/X4s will get L3. It will end all latency issues.

2. Even the X2 3800+ can play Oblivion at 1600x1200.

3. Though losing frames is not what you want, going from 139.5 to 133.9 will not alter the experience.

It's not as bad a picture as your painting.

 

[BaronMatrix]

A pattern here perhaps?

Quad FX
Brisbane

What next? K8L a major flop? I wouldn't be surprised.

Well K8L definately ISNT going to beat the core arch:
Q3 K8L debut clock ~2.8 Ghz
Q3 core arch debut clocks ~3.8 Ghz

K8L has to be 30%+ faster clock-for-clock JUST TO PULL LEVEL.

To whup intel it would need to be 60%+ faster clock-for-clock which just isnt going to happen.


There is no such thing as a flop in this business. Do you think gong from dual core to quad core will do LESS than 40%?
The last quote was Barcelona 70% than Opteron.

 

[Mr_Speedy]

Agreed.

This is a rough patch AMD is going through now.
The second generation 65nm should be be better.

Ever since Intel's Core 2 came out, we all more or less knew that we would have to wait until Barcelona to get a large increase in performance. This is just proving that we were right.

I want everyone to remember this:
Intel was lagging behind AMD ever since the first Athlon 64 CPUs came out, for years... from September 23, 2003 (First Athlon 64) to July 27, 2006

AMD was leading Intel until:
The first wave of Core 2 processors was officially released on July 27, 2006

Intel has been leading for LESS THAN 5 months.

Barcelona will be released in 2H '07.
We have yet to see the performance of this chip, but we should assume it will be quite a lot better than the current AMD chips.
Putting 2 x 4 cores in a 4x4 setup = 8 cores, this should at least be competitive, but will probably take the performance crown.

Oh by the way... before the first Athlon, AMD was behind Intel ever since it was established in 1969. AMD is still here. It will continue to be here. Even if AMD never get the performance crown again (I doubt it), AMD can offer better price/performance ratios, and compete in the budget/midrange market.

Don't write AMD off so soon....

 

[Wombat2]

There is no such thing as a flop in this business. Do you think gong from dual core to quad core will do LESS than 40%?
The last quote was Barcelona 70% than Opteron.

Are you really this stupid, is anyone?

Core for core comparison knumbskull.

AMD claimed 40% at the K8L demo, I was in the audiance ... better phone them up and tell them to correct their powerpoints :lol:

 

[jap0nes]

I want everyone to remember this:
Intel was lagging behind AMD ever since the first Athlon 64 CPUs came out, for years... from September 23, 2003 (First Athlon 64) to July 27, 2006

AMD was leading Intel until:
The first wave of Core 2 processors was officially released on July 27, 2006

wasnt since athlon XP? actually, it was since thunderbirds i guess... around 2000? then that's 6 years behind.

 

[hella-d]

Ill Agree With That

 

[hella-d]

LOL

 

[hella-d]

I Can Agree Witha That Also

 

[69camaroSS]

AMD isn't in the business of Revolution. It's all about evolution. . . it takes time. Millions millions of years :roll:

*note the sarcasm in my voice*

 

[hella-d]

Yeah Definitely, Just Look At My System, It May Not Be Core2 Fast But Its Fast Enuff That It Will Beat Most High-End PCs $3,000 And Up In Hard Drive Thouroughput And Will Play Any Game I Throw At It, Even Games In 2007/Early 2008, Im Not Uppgrading CPU/Mobo And RAM Again (But Vista Will Definitely Be Had) Until AMD Quad-Cores Become Available In The $300.00 - $400.00 Range, I Also Have Said Before That ALL AMD Chips Will End-Up With A L3 Cache (Yes Even The Semprons, And They Will Even Be At-Least Dual-Core)

 

[caamsa]

Sh$T happens.

Look at any other industry. Bad products, recalls. etc. etc. etc.

Just read consumer reports


It happens...................

How about that battery recall for laptops...........
If you have ever owned a car I am sure that you have gotten a recall on it before.

 

[accord99]

I want everyone to remember this:
Intel was lagging behind AMD ever since the first Athlon 64 CPUs came out, for years... from September 23, 2003 (First Athlon 64) to July 27, 2006

I wouldn't say that, when the A64 was released, it had an advantage in most single-threaded apps and games, the P4 had the advantage in most encoding apps and multi-threaded apps.

It wasn't until the dual-core that the A64 gained a decisive advantage.

wasnt since athlon XP? actually, it was since thunderbirds i
guess... around 2000? then that's 6 years behind.

Northwood As gained parity with the XP, the Northwood Bs took the performance crown and the Northwood Cs were quite dominant for their time.

 

[jap0nes]

wasnt since athlon XP? actually, it was since thunderbirds i
guess... around 2000? then that's 6 years behind.

Northwood As gained parity with the XP, the Northwood Bs took the performance crown and the Northwood Cs were quite dominant for their time.
clock for clock? what about power consumption? way before this performance per watt stuff

 

[accord99]

clock for clock? what about power consumption? way before this performance per watt stuff

-Raw performance is more important than clock-for-clock
-Power consumption wasn't a important issue, few reviews ever had any power measurements

 

[BaronMatrix]

There is no such thing as a flop in this business. Do you think gong from dual core to quad core will do LESS than 40%?
The last quote was Barcelona 70% than Opteron.

Are you really this stupid, is anyone?

Core for core comparison knumbskull.

AMD claimed 40% at the K8L demo, I was in the audiance ... better phone them up and tell them to correct their powerpoints :lol:

The presentation with Task Manager quoted "40% FP increase and 70% integer." Got to AMDs virtual showroom and see for your self. Someone posted a link to it.

The first numbers were 60% increase in integer and 40% FP. I even made a joke about the numbers steadily going up. Since there was not a peep about real perf increases for AM2, QFX or 65nm, this means that there will be a new Sheriff in town. If they get 80%+ increase over K8 by Jul/Aug, every other architecture will be pushed off the TPC-H charts. Even SuperDome(Itanium 2 - 64 chips) won't be able to handle a 32 proc Barcelona beast.