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Radeon X1950XT going cheap!

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December 21, 2006 4:11:47 PM

Just thought I would share this, its a pretty good deal!

MSI X1950XT 256MB for £175!

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/121057

More about : radeon x1950xt cheap

a b U Graphics card
December 21, 2006 4:22:43 PM

It should get even cheaper once Vista is released to mainstream users.
December 21, 2006 4:29:12 PM

Really.....i was going to invest in a pair of X1950 pro's in January....i should probs wait then.
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December 21, 2006 5:09:03 PM

If you're going to get 2 X1950 Pro cards you might as well hold off for R600. Similar price (maybe $100 more) and is supposedly faster than G80, but that remains to be seen. (128 Shaders v.s. 64?)

But we all remember 5800 Ultra against the 9700/9800 Pro, no?
December 21, 2006 5:18:45 PM

Quote:
If you're going to get 2 X1950 Pro cards you might as well hold off for R600. Similar price (maybe $100 more) and is supposedly faster than G80, but that remains to be seen. (128 Shaders v.s. 64?)

But we all remember 5800 Ultra against the 9700/9800 Pro, no?


Good point

But does anyone get the feeling ATI may have screwed up? (this is coming from an ATI fan)

R600 due a good few months after 8800GTX, and with seemingly less grunt, the architecture better be good.

Only time will tell....
December 21, 2006 6:03:32 PM

From the attitude of most threads I've read on the G80 vs R600, most people seem to be thinking that the R600 will be a pretty decent step up from the G80.
December 21, 2006 6:22:46 PM

Quote:
If you're going to get 2 X1950 Pro cards you might as well hold off for R600. Similar price (maybe $100 more) and is supposedly faster than G80, but that remains to be seen. (128 Shaders v.s. 64?)

But we all remember 5800 Ultra against the 9700/9800 Pro, no?
Yes but from the rumors we are hearing, the R600 has 64 complex shaders that are capable of 4 shader operations per clock cycle on each unit while the G80's 128 shaders are only capable of 1 per clock cycle. If these are true they should perform very similarly as the R600 is rumored to be clocked around 700MHz while the 8800GTXs shaders are clocked at 1.35GHz.
December 21, 2006 7:06:15 PM

Quote:
From the attitude of most threads I've read on the G80 vs R600, most people seem to be thinking that the R600 will be a pretty decent step up from the G80.


Well AMD has seen the G80 and tested it and says that the R600 will beat it(this was a couple weeks ago at some event which i forgot the name). I think this is all the reassurance we need that R600 will beat the G80 flat out.
December 21, 2006 7:17:06 PM

You are so right! Since AMD said it has to be true!
December 21, 2006 7:47:17 PM

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LMAO well hell coming from AMD wtf would you expect? :lol: 


If their tests showed that the G80 was more powerful than the R600, I'd expect AMD to keep it on the DL and say nothing.
December 21, 2006 8:48:08 PM

Dude maintain your cool. No need to start throwing fanboi accusations around. I don't think the fanboy thing is that prevalent for video cards anyways, most people just want the best bang/$.

I also read an interesting thread about how the shader gates (or something) on the 8800 are 100 times slower than the ones on the 1950 and how that is going to affect performance a lot in DX10 titles that make heavy use of shaders. After reading that thread, I will definitely wait until some DX10 games are out and check the benches before getting a G80. I wish I had the link to it, it was an interesting discussion.
December 21, 2006 9:15:17 PM

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And if your willing to just take AMD's word for it then your nothing but a worthless fanboi for the most part :roll:


Whoa, buddy. I'm just saying thats what I would expect. I said nothing that would imply that I favor AMD let alone that I'm a fanboy. Chill out.

Edit: Besides, we're off topic.
December 21, 2006 9:16:29 PM

I would like to think that the R600 will be better than the G80. It would be stupid to come to the party late with an inferior card. My guess, this year will be the same as most, with ATI and Nvidia playing leap frog.
December 21, 2006 9:17:43 PM

move along...nothing to see here. Getting my threads mixed up.
December 21, 2006 9:35:15 PM

Quote:
If you're going to get 2 X1950 Pro cards you might as well hold off for R600. Similar price (maybe $100 more) and is supposedly faster than G80, but that remains to be seen. (128 Shaders v.s. 64?)

But we all remember 5800 Ultra against the 9700/9800 Pro, no?


Good point

But does anyone get the feeling ATI may have screwed up? (this is coming from an ATI fan)

R600 due a good few months after 8800GTX, and with seemingly less grunt, the architecture better be good.

Only time will tell....

I would say Nvidias plot worked out pretty well :lol: 

Claiming that the G80 would not be of unified shader architecture and then WHAM! suprise!

Actually I think Nvidia made a mis-step in releaseing so soon before DX10 availibility. Most people are willing to wait until Vista comes out (or longer) to upgrade their card, and Nvidia tipped its hand with enough time for ATI to evaluate and consider fixing any problems that may exists. I think Nvidia would ahve been wiser to ahve released the card either this week or at the beginning of January to shrink the window between the release and Vista.

That being said I would expect ATI's card to perform similarly to the 8800 or better based on the long window between releases. The real question is when will NVidia update to push past ATI ;) 
December 21, 2006 9:44:37 PM

Quote:
If you're going to get 2 X1950 Pro cards you might as well hold off for R600. Similar price (maybe $100 more) and is supposedly faster than G80, but that remains to be seen. (128 Shaders v.s. 64?)

But we all remember 5800 Ultra against the 9700/9800 Pro, no?


Good point

But does anyone get the feeling ATI may have screwed up? (this is coming from an ATI fan)

R600 due a good few months after 8800GTX, and with seemingly less grunt, the architecture better be good.

Only time will tell....

I would say Nvidias plot worked out pretty well :lol: 

Claiming that the G80 would not be of unified shader architecture and then WHAM! suprise!

Actually I think Nvidia made a mis-step in releaseing so soon before DX10 availibility. Most people are willing to wait until Vista comes out (or longer) to upgrade their card, and Nvidia tipped its hand with enough time for ATI to evaluate and consider fixing any problems that may exists. I think Nvidia would ahve been wiser to ahve released the card either this week or at the beginning of January to shrink the window between the release and Vista.

That being said I would expect ATI's card to perform similarly to the 8800 or better based on the long window between releases. The real question is when will NVidia update to push past ATI ;) 

I would expect an update (8900?) from nVidia around Q4 '07 or maybe even Q1 '08
December 21, 2006 10:05:23 PM

I like how you completely missed the part of my post where I said to calm down and stop throwing the 'fanboi' around.

And yes, this is all pure speculation. So is saying that the G80 will be better, or that they will be the same or any estimate of the performance of any hardware that hasn't been released.

Also, I do put (some) weight into what I read in forums, especially when the thread is like the shader discussion I mentioned above. It was clearly a technical discussion about the engineering methods that each manufacturer uses to create shader gate in the silicon. It wasn't a 'fanboi' thread, it was just discussing the implications of Nvidia's choice of technology because it makes their shaders slower in some instances and DX10 looks like it MIGHT make those slow shaders hold the card back. I am not an engineer, so I can not back up what they were saying, nor can I even find the frigging link.

So stop being a fanboi and bashing our speculation. Take everything with a grain of salt and if you don't like it, then you probably shouldn't be reading any threads on toms forums, cause that is what the majority of them are about.

I repeat Maintain Your Cool.
December 21, 2006 10:31:24 PM

So because I post some thoughts I had about what I read in another thread, while stating that you should take it with a grain of salt, you think I am a fanboi?? I am sorry, I didn't realize we weren't ever supposed to speculate on how the design of a card would effect its performance.

I don't really care what company's sticker is on a product in my system (warranty aside) and already said so in this thread. I recommend numerous Nvidia and ATI products to people depending on their pricing point. At the moment I wouldn't recommend a G80 card to anybody since I think they should wait to see what ATI has to offer before taking the plunge.

So RobsX2, no hard feelings, have a cookie :p 
December 21, 2006 10:40:45 PM

I'd say it's still pretty much up in the air considering how nV and ATI architectures are diverging in this gen. Purely speculative at this point to say one will perform better than the other. G80 may turn out to be the better of the two or R600 could blow it away. In a third scenario, R600 could take the crown from the 8800s only to have nV beat it with 8900.

What will most likely happen, IMO, is that one will perform better in DX9 while the other does better in DX10.

At this point, the noise seems to lean towards ATI taking the lead with R600 and I am leaning in this direction (although there's little-nothing to substantiate this). But this is usually the case with hardware that has yet to be released; people tend to think the un-releaded card draped in mystery will be better than the one that's already released. All I know is that it is best to remain objective in these circumstances and not throw hard-earned money and time in one basket.
December 21, 2006 10:45:23 PM

Quote:
If you're going to get 2 X1950 Pro cards you might as well hold off for R600. Similar price (maybe $100 more) and is supposedly faster than G80, but that remains to be seen. (128 Shaders v.s. 64?)

But we all remember 5800 Ultra against the 9700/9800 Pro, no?


Nvidia and ATI leapfrog, that's true, but I expect that ATI will have good DX10, and even better DX9.0c performance with R600. As is, I'm waiting to go PCIe until at least mid 2007, if not early 2008. That's because I want to see midrange R600, 65nm cores that are worth something from AMD and native quad cores from Intel.

So, I'll get an X1950 AGP to hold me over in my aging P4 2.8 Northwood system. As long as I can H.264 support, plus get better performance in Oblivion than with my Radeon 9800 Pro, then I'll be happy for this next year.

Now, if money were no option, I'd go with that new AMD/ATI chipset DFI Crossfire plus physics three card board. Then, I'd get one Sapphire X1950 dual GPU card to hold me over till R600. Since money is an option, I guess I can only dream...

Quote:
But does anyone get the feeling ATI may have screwed up? (this is coming from an ATI fan)

R600 due a good few months after 8800GTX, and with seemingly less grunt, the architecture better be good.

Only time will tell....


Not at all, ATI has been known for paper launches in the past. Perhaps AMD is just making sure there's no paper launch this time around? I like ATI because of Avivo (ie vs. Nvidia's Pure Cinema), but when games are concerned, they're fairly close in performance in each generation.

I've been an Intel Northwood and ATI All in Wonder fan, but this merger has me looking at AMD again. Sad that the All in Wonder line has been discontinued because of Vista.
December 21, 2006 10:58:18 PM

No problem. I get sick of all of the "AMD is good cause heatburst sucks and Intel is WTFCENTAURS!!" too.

@yipsl

Where can you find an x1950 AGP?
December 21, 2006 11:06:20 PM

Wow. Didn't know vid cards were so expensive in the UK in terms of dollars. If that is a good deal there that is an excellent card unless you want to jump on the whole Vista Dx10 right away.
December 22, 2006 1:42:39 AM

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No problem. I get sick of all of the "AMD is good cause heatburst sucks and Intel is WTFCENTAURS!!" too.

@yipsl

Where can you find an x1950 AGP?


Well, Netburst wasn't that great, except for the Northwood. I went Northwood over Athlon XP just before Morrowind because of the Tom's Hardware article and video relating to Athlon XP meltdown when the CPU fan stopped. I won't go cheap Smithfield for the same reason today.

So far the X1950 Pro AGP is only at Best Buy:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8040782&t...

I expect them to be everywhere by February, when I'll buy with my income tax refund. I usually order from Newegg. I think Best Buy is an exclusive for the Visiontek card now. On another board, a guy reported that his local Best Buy only had 3 in stock and they weren't on the shelves, but the salesperson found them in the back.

Sapphire and other companies will have their own out soon. I also don't think the price will be $299 for long. The card's biggest competitor is the 7800GS and that didn't stay at low $300's for long.
December 22, 2006 6:21:23 AM

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Better enjoy me being nice to you while you can! im tipsy from drinking wine and im known to be abnormally friendly to even those that I hate the most when I have been drinking :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:



:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Kidding. But I am tipsy!!!! :oops: 


:!: :?: Loser.
December 22, 2006 7:08:19 AM

I love a good fanboy thread :D 
December 22, 2006 7:58:31 AM

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What will most likely happen, IMO, is that one will perform better in DX9 while the other does better in DX10.



Yeah thats what im interested in, we already know that even with crappy driver support that the 8800GTX performs great in DX9.

Just take a look at these screenies from my system :twisted:


1280X1024, 4XAA 16XAF+HDR all in game options maxed out and drivers set to high quality.

Now just imagine how things are gonna be when the drivers for XP are finally worked out
























When I was at work last night, babysitting the mainframe, I couldn't see the screenshots, because everything from photobucket is blocked by "Web Dunce". They do look great. I could upload some of my crappy Radeon 9800 Pro screenshots to redwoodtreesprite's photobucket account (she's my modder wife), but why bother?

They developed Oblivion with the Radeon 9800 Pro, but the game's so future proof that it won't really get everything maxed out with great framerates until the last generation of DX10 cards arrive just as we're all anticpating DX11.

All humor aside, I can't wait to see the game with a "midrange" card for Oblivion like the X1950 AGP. At least then the battle for Bruma, and the run to the temple in the last bit of the MQ won't be a slideshow.
December 23, 2006 1:23:37 AM

Quote:
Just thought I would share this, its a pretty good deal!

MSI X1950XT 256MB for £175!

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/121057


thats not cheap thats the going price. cheapest i found was £163. there be some better ones out in january 25% faster and will the price will drop further.
December 23, 2006 4:04:29 AM

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:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Your kidding right? do you not see FRAPS in the upper left hand corner of my screen shots? the minimum frame rate I have been able to find outside is 50 while in heavily dense forested areas. Most of the time im in the 60-75fps range.

Man if thats not great frame rates for Oblivion then I dont know what is :lol: 


I'm half serious, so I guess I am kidding. Considering how "slow" even high end cards run Oblivion at resolutions higher than 1280 x 1024, I am thinking of how late era DX10 cards will run this game with all features maxed in a few years.

I should install FRAPS and see how Oblivion does at 1024 x 768, with all other settings default medium, on my AIW Radeon 9800 Pro. That would be good for a laugh.
December 23, 2006 8:06:10 PM

You could probably manage with your fingers and a stopwatch.
December 24, 2006 6:29:52 AM

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You could probably manage with your fingers and a stopwatch.


LOL, well I installed FRAPS anyway. Here's an image of one of my characters running through the forest. Note the 11 fps. No wonder the Battle for Bruma's a slideshow:



I never really noticed a major difference because I've been accustomed to those framerates from Bethesda's TES games for over a decade. I still get around 15-20 fps in Morrowind.

They did develop this game with the 256 meg version of the Radeon 9800 Pro. I just couldn't stand the 640 x 480 medium default resolution, so I upped it to 1024 x 768, changed water detail to high. When I do get an X1950 Pro AGP, or just give in and go with a new system and a DX10 midrange card, then I'll play around with AA and AF.

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you cant beat nvidia right now,no point in even trying if you have the money.Amd is holding Ati back.we may flush 07 down the tubes for both aspects of the company.

if you have the cash dont hold your breath for ATI.


Well, I have the cash for midrange, but not 8800. By the time both companies have midrange DX10 cards out, then it will be the time to decide, once I have a dual core using the AMD 690. Otherwise, I can only go up to X1950 Pro AGP or 7800GS AGP and the X1950 Pro is better for Oblivion. My wife, redwoodtreesprite, mods for Morrowind and Oblivion, so what's best in our pricerange for a TES game is what we'll always get.

As for 2007 and AMD/ATI, well, mergers are expensive in both time wasted and the bottom line. I'm sure they'll come back by the time K8L arrives. I really prefer the idea of a C2D over a present day X2, but I really had my hopes set on that AMD 690 T chipset (ie the modified X700 onboard with AVIVO, HDCP and HDMI support).
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