Unidentified Bottleneck

[ForTheHorde]

Hey guys, I know this is my first post and that I should not be a leech, which I won't be, but I am in a bad situation. I can get an upgrade for my computer this Christmas, but I am unsure of what to get. I built this computer thinking that it could handle anything, and everyone tells me it should be able to. Here are the specs:

P4 Cedar Mill HT 3.0Gz LGA775
Gigabyte GA-8N-SLI nForce4 Motherboard
1Gb PQI Turbo PC5400 DDR2 RAM
420 Watt RaidMax PSU
160GB Western Digital SATA HDD
XFX 7600GT (590//1600)

I should be getting great performance, right? I do, sometimes. I usually have to restart before I play WoW or CS: S. A wierd thing is that i used to get extrememly poor performance out of this rig when I was running Windows off my SATA HDD, but recently I slapped in an old Quantum Fireball (P3 Era or something) 30GB HDD (it's IDE) and freshly installed the same copy ofWindows as my other. For a while, I was getting GREAT performance. I had WoW @ 1024x768 with max everything, including AA and texture filtering and I was getting 100+ FPS. It slowly declined to about 40FPS with the same settings, which it is currently at. After a while of gaming in WoW the performance will fall to 14FPS and stay that way until I restart my computer. I am currently on course to buy another one of the same graphics card, but will my PSU handle it? Is my motherboard holding me back? Does RAM make that big of a difference? The only other card connected to it, besids the graphics card, is a wireless network adaptor. I don't think this is working at its full potential.

Desperate and thankful for help,
ReNo

 

[Mr_Speedy]

Your CPU might be overheating.

It runs full speed when you start off, then as it gets too hot, it throttles down the speed.
This can also be true with your 7600GT (less likely in my opinion)

Try taking the side of your case off, and see if you can play for longer without the slow-downs.

Install speedfan, run prime95, and take a look at the temps.

Dunno what else it could be..

 

[Onus]

Although a buildup of heat can throttle a system until it cools, you say performance is good again after a restart. This is probably not enough time. Just in case, do you have decent cooling?
What seems more likely to me is a memory leak somewhere, possibly in a bad driver. Sound drivers are notorious for doing this. Are you noticing any anomalies in sound (like stuttering or echoes) or graphics (like artifacts or banding) as things get bad, or is it just slowing down?
When things slow down, see if Task Manager reports any unexpected processes taking up resources, although with a recent fresh install, this doesn't seem likely. Another straw to grasp is defragging your hard drive. What version of Windows do you have, and what are your virtual memory settings?
I understand that WoW really likes RAM, so your 1GB may be a minimal amount. Adding another 1GB would definitely make a difference, memory leak or not.
At 1024x768, I don't think SLI will make much difference. Someone else can answer more definitively, but I don't think that PSU can handle it either, even if the card doesn't need a power connector.

 

[ForTheHorde]

Sound. I am using on-board AC97 sound, and I have been having problems with it. In Warcraft 3, half of the audio sounds as if it is in a cave, echoing. This doesn't happen every time I play the game, though. Also, after playing WoW, I must restart my computer or else my audio hardware will not be detected by any program. My air flow is decent, I have 6 fans. CPU stays at 50-54c, stock everything. I guess I shouldn't get another graphics card until I get this one working how it should, and obtain a new PSU. Any ideas on why I have better peroformance from a very outdated HDD vs a SATA? I'm going to re-check my drivers right now. I thank you greatly for your help.

 

[ForTheHorde]

Forgot about your other questions:

OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name BLOOBEEST
System Manufacturer GBT___
System Model AWRDACPI
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 6 Stepping 2 GenuineIntel ~3013 Mhz
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 6 Stepping 2 GenuineIntel ~3013 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date Award Software International, Inc. F3, 11/15/2005
SMBIOS Version 2.3
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume1
Locale United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)"
User Name BLOOBEEST\reno
Time Zone Pacific Standard Time
Total Physical Memory 1,024.00 MB
Available Physical Memory 767.18 MB
Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
Page File Space 2.40 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys

 

[xeenrecoil]

Sup Horde;

This really sounds like a memory leak in World of Warcraft to me, do you notice a decline in performance in other games or just wow, also going to the old quantum fireball was a puzzling move, that makes absolutely no sense as the performance of the quantum is terrible compared to your newer generation SATA drive, infact your HDD shouldnt even be entering into the picture while playing unless you dont have enough system memory.

The problems:
The first problem is you barely have enough system memory for the game.
The second problem is you dont have enough video memory, and when you are standing in Orgimmar, or in a 40 man instance, and there is 40-150 Avatars on your screen your graphics card gets its ass kicked because it doesnt have enough memory to handle it all.
The solution:
just upgrade to a 512MB or higher card and alot of your problems will be solved.
The best card for this situation is the 8800 GTS, not only does it have 640MB of system memory it also has the balls to handle that much stuff going on at once.
Simply going to SLI and running dual 7600GT's will solve your problem for the time being, however it is only a short term stop gap solution, granted its a cheap and effective one
There is a down side to either option as you will have to buy a new PSU, reguardless of wether you decide to run SLI or just buy a 8800GTS, because your current PSU doesnt have enough amperage on the +12v rail, you need 30Amps on the +12v rail to do either option.

Late

 

[darious00777]

His PSU is rated at +12V@13A. Would that impact his graphics card at all?


Edit:

Oh yeah, Horde, if it were up to me, I'd get this. Best I can tell, it's the most powerful processor that your motherboard can handle. If there's more of a budget, go for the D805, only $90.

 

[ForTheHorde]

I realised something else just now too, when a page loads in IE and I scroll down before it is finished, is it normal for the partially loaded text/images to smear? It can happen sometimes with other windows too when I drag them, if something else is loading.

--------------------------

Recoil:

I moved to the Fireball because I was tired of reformatting my big 160GB storage drive every time something happened, losing all the game patches (WoW has insanely huge patches), installs, dealing with lost game discs, etc. Also, I have had my best experiences with it. In Orgrimmar, fully loaded with a few hundred people, I had 70-71 steady FPS when I freshly installed WinXP on the fireball, with every graphical option maxed @ 1024x768, and I don't think my parents will be too eager to drop a grand on my FPS problem , so I will explore other possibilities before I try that one. Thanks for the advice, though. I'm going to disconnect my primary HDD in a minute and dust off that old install of Windows and compare it's performance to the other.

Everyone, which would be better for gaming? My current set-up, detailed above (this is the exact processor: P4 631 , or the same with this processor and the bundled motherboard: PD 805 Will the fact that it is dual-core make up for the short-comings in specifications when compared to my P4?

Thanks Recoil, and you too, Darious, for the insight.

 

[Onus]

I can't believe Xeen's answers. Industry shill? You don't need a 512MB graphics card to play WoW. The echoing sound effects you describe are precisely the kind of thing that indicates a bad sound driver, and that is probably where your memory leak is. The fact that your audio hardware disappears after you play WoW suggests that something in WoW (maybe a patch) vomits all over a driver file. Update your sound drivers to maybe put it back. Perhaps a WoW patch messed them up; I'd update them after loading all the WoW patches. Just as a test ('cause it would suck full time), disable your sound before playing WoW and see if performance stays good. From your symptoms, I think it will.
WoW does like RAM, and you have 1GB. While certainly playable, you will see improvements if you go to 2GB, and that isn't too expensive. Your BIOS might need to be updated; this could affect your mobo sound too.

Of course, if all else fails, you could always upgrade from WoW to Guild Wars. :twisted:

 

[xeenrecoil]

I can't believe Xeen's answers. Industry shill? You don't need a 512MB graphics card to play WoW. The echoing sound effects you describe are precisely the kind of thing that indicates a bad sound driver, and that is probably where your memory leak is. The fact that your audio hardware disappears after you play WoW suggests that something in WoW (maybe a patch) vomits all over a driver file. Update your sound drivers to maybe put it back. Perhaps a WoW patch messed them up; I'd update them after loading all the WoW patches. Just as a test ('cause it would suck full time), disable your sound before playing WoW and see if performance stays good. From your symptoms, I think it will.
WoW does like RAM, and you have 1GB. While certainly playable, you will see improvements if you go to 2GB, and that isn't too expensive. Your BIOS might need to be updated; this could affect your mobo sound too.

Of course, if all else fails, you could always upgrade from WoW to Guild Wars. :twisted:

LOL man...you say you cant believe my answers, im the one that identified the memory leak in the first place, so back off...
Also You are wrong, MMORPGs are notorious for requiring HUGE amounts of video card memory the more you have the better there is no such thing as too much, the more objects on your screen the more video memory you need, when there is 40+ avatars on your screen plus anywhere from 5-20 monsters, plus barels, grass, trees, buildings, world objects, well you get the idea, that all loads into your video memory and then even over flows into your system memory if you dont have enough video memory, that is why video memory is so important, while system memory is also important it isnt nearly as important as your video memory in an MMORPG, oh and BTW just so you know with all details turned on WoW uses approximately 384-512MB of system memory, if you are using upwards to 1GB of system memory its because you dont have enough video memory, learn something about MMORPG engines before you make an innapropriate comment about me.

I also use my onboard ac97 sound, you have to keep the drivers as current as possible, or you will get massive issues in games, the thing about the ac97 support is their download servers are total and complete crap, you get about 4KBps on both their main and mirror server, in searching for a alternative source to download the driver I found it at Download.com, their bandwidth is 100KBps or higher depending on the time of the day, so head there and get the latest driver they offer, when I was there last they were one driver revision behind, but the driver was only a month or two older then the newest one but, it fixed the crashing issue I was having in BF 2142 so its all good.

 

[ForTheHorde]

:?: How can I update my BIOS? I do not have a floppy drive, which I think you need(?). I have thumb drives, though, if those are useful. I have heard that my board is desperate for updating.

Edit: Wow, my audio driver is almost 2 years old. Realtek's third server is giving me 54Kb/s, my max. Thanks.

 

[ForTheHorde]

Interesting. I noticed, about a month back, that my CPU was running at 10°C higher than normal, took it off the motherboard and saw that the old thermal paste was black and crusty. Luckily I had some Arctic Silver and, after scraping off the old scum, applied it. This worked well since. I also noticed that the four thumb-screws didn't all hold, but I had little experience then, and thought of it as normal. I did my best to get them fastened securely and I will now keep a watchful eye on the condition of my CPU. Intel should give me free money or something, but they won't. Thanks for going out of your way to tell me.

 

[Onus]

I believe I commented on the memory leak about 9 hours before you did.
I will stand by my remarks that MMORPGs like lots of system RAM, and you do not need 512MB of video RAM to play them; else they would not enjoy such immense popularity.
In any event, it seems that updating the Realtek drivers may have fixed the problem. True, Horde?

 

[ForTheHorde]

Not completely. I haven't had nearly as many problems since, though, i.e. echo effect. One thing that I still experience is the loss of audio after playing WoW. It really is nothing major, though. I usually restart out of choice, to keep my performance optimal for pwning. I got Battlefield 2142 today, and EA Warfare Collection, and a Logitech MX610 wireless mouse, and a Logitech Cordless Rumblepad 2. Let the killing begin! It is only a matter of time now, before I have 6MB/s cable and possible a new mobo-cpu combo, upon the reccomendation of multiple people. AMD = better for budget gaming, I guess. Although I may have to test out a dual-core intel with my current mobo. My dad has the next week or so off, so I will make him drive me down to Fry's electronics near LV Boulevard, experimenting with costerformance ratios of more RAM/better cpu. Merry Christmas.