corsair dominator

so I have been goinger over the specs for Twin2X2048-6400C4 and Twin2X2048-6400C4D (dominator) I'm curious as to the difference, aside from the heatsink! I mean Twin2X2048-6400C4 is rated at 1.9v and dominator is 2.1v. So wouldent that mean that Twin2X2048-6400C4 are able to opperte at the same specs but with less signal strenght? wouldent that make them better? (i know, i know; better heat sink on the dominator, but underneath it?)
i posted this in corsair forums too, but havent gotten an answerso far.

the specs are near identical, aside from dominator using 2.1v and XMSC4 only 1.9.
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  1. XMS chips are better, meaning the 'better quality' dominator chips aren't as good because they require more voltage?

    The XMS2 cas 4 800mhz is supposed to have the chips used in the XMS2 1066mhz cas 5, albeit a lower voltage....The modules work at 1066mhz and above, well so xbit labs say... :)

    I'm hopefully getting the same dominator ram you suggested, it's £5 more expensive than the XMS2 but you get better overclocking potential due to the better cooling. I'm planning to get a 120mm fan and have it blow through the ram/heatsinks, and then overclock to 4~4.5ghz or so with my E6600 :D

    by chips I mean the actual memory chips/modules.
  2. thank you, but i dont follow. the XMS2 (Twin2X2048-6400C4) has the same chips as the 1066Mhz at C5, this is indeed extreemly good. But what about the dominators? are the chips there "worse" then the XMS2.

    hmm let me rephrase: heatsinks aside, witch is the better module? XMS2 c4 (Twin2X2048-6400C4) or Dominator c4 (Twin2X2048-6400C4D)
  3. it should be the dominator, they cost more but to be honest, who knows? Well, corsair know I guess... I know that both use the top of the range micron memory but does the dominator include the 'better,' more overclockable cihps inside the dominator heatsink?

    I just looked on corsair's website they call the dominator ram; XMS2 Dominator, suggesting that it uses the same ram.


    Quote:
    Under the name XMS2 DOMINATOR, this DHX technology will be showing up on both Corsair parts designed for extreme overclocking and on memory designed for performance computing and gaming.

    - http://www.corsairmicro.com/corsair/dominator.html

    The website doesn't say that the chips are hand picked or indeed better than the XMS2 line, instead corsair just says how wonderful the new heatsink design is...

    Just go for the XMS2, if you have the money I'd get the dominator, they're probably the same (except the heatsinks) anyway. :)
  4. Aside from the heat sink you probably wouldn’t be able to tell the difference at their tested 800 MHz frequency.
    They were both tested to run DDR2 800 4 4 4 12 @ 2.1 v .
    It’s kind of funny how Corsairs spec sheet reads like an advertisement flyer.

    http://www.corsairmemory.com/corsair/products/specs/TWIN2X2048-6400C4D.pdf

    http://www.corsairmemory.com/corsair/products/specs/TWIN2X2048-6400C4.pdf


    The advantages of the dominators heat sinks are self explanatory but at those timings listed not necessary.
    You really have to push them harder to see any true comparisons and that unfortunately forces us to search elsewhere for true performance data.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/09/22/corsair_xms2_dominator/

    I’ll stick with my SuperTalent. :wink:
  5. I noticed at the bottom for the dominator (Twin2X2048-6400C4D) it says EPP standard: 5-5-5-15 at 2.1
    And for the "old" XMS C4 (Twin2X2048-6400C4) it says EPP standard 4-4-4-12 2T.
  6. Yeah actually thats true :o !!


    But above it it says both are:

    Quote:
    Tested at EPP SPD settings (4-4-4-12) at 2.1V at
    800MHz


    and they've both got the same timings - within the JEDEC standard.
  7. Quote:
    I noticed at the bottom for the dominator (Twin2X2048-6400C4D) it says EPP standard: 5-5-5-15 at 2.1
    And for the "old" XMS C4 (Twin2X2048-6400C4) it says EPP standard 4-4-4-12 2T.


    I've used Corsair ram for years, mostly the high performance stuff, and the biggest advantage I know of with the Dominator series is that it can be overclocked better than the standard XMS series without suffering as many overheat problems. But if you aren't into living at the edge in overclocking, then I see no advantage in it. For myself, it isn't worth the money.
  8. its not really the money. they cost about the same. Its the small print where it says EPP 4-4-4-12 2T at the botom of the supposedly cheaper XMS C4 model, and EPP 5-5-5-15 for the "new" supposedly better Dominater model, that gets to me. and where i start scraching my head as to witch model is the better, underneath the shinny new heatsink. i read somewhere that they are the same moduels. but there is a big differece between running 4-4-4-12 and running 5-5-5-15.

    and the "old" C4 was rated to 1.9v where the "new" dominator is rated 2.1, so the old model can run as fast with less signal streght, or what? I just dont get it :oops:
  9. If the cost difference isn't much, then I'd probably go for the Dominator so I could get the better heatsinks. Unless I'm missing something in the fine print, both modules are testing out at the same standard of 4-4-4-12 at 2.1V, when refering to the listings that kwalker provided. In the past, I've only read that the Dominator series could be overclocked better, but maybe things have changed in the last few months. It all seems strange to me, how the company lists them with the same specs and all.
  10. Actually if you read both of the PDFs they both say,

    'tested at EPP settings (4-4-4-12) 2.1v'

    I'd go for the dominator, I think I will also, just a little more saving for me... :lol:

    (as I said earlier) I'm gonna get a 120mm fan and have it blow through the dominator ram's heatsinks, and then try to overclock to 4ghz with my E6600 woo-hoo!

    Note that if you have a large HS/F you could have problems fitting the modules due to the increased height of the dimms. :)
  11. On paper, the PC6400C4 and PC6400C4D Dominator are the same memory. However, the Dominator heat spreaders will work better. But, if you have adequate case cooling the non Dominator will work just fine.

    The Dominator heat spreaders were designed based on info from a Micron study. In theory, the same ICs should have a longer life span on a Dominator PCB+spreader vs a standard XMS PCB+spreader if all else is equal.

    Micron Thermal Applications Study

    Also, the Dominator can handle higher voltages than the standard XMS. So, only the rated speeds are guaranteed but, a Dominator module should easily OC better than a non Dominator equivalent.
  12. oh thats good then.. thanks :P

    you wouldn't happen to know how well these 800mhz cas 4 dominator modules overclock would you, all the reviews on the dominator modules are of the 1111mhz ram...

    If the dominator 800mhz cas 4 is the same ram as the XMS2 800mhz cas 4 then that means that the modules should get to around 1066mhz cas 5 as Xbit labs says they're the same modules used in the 1066mhz cas 5 ram. You couldn't comfirm this could you? :)

    TY :)
  13. DO NOT go by the Xbit rating. That article is 8 months old and makes some very wrong assumptions. The PC6400C4 Dominator has been made with 2 different ICs, Micron D9 and Promos. Xbit used a Micron set but, the current revision uses Promos. Before I can comment on your modules, I need all of the info from the stickers on the modules.
  14. oh ok so I guess I'll have to buy the dominator ram first before you can tell me ... :lol: haha oh well at least if I find out that it isn't the same RAM then I can at bump the voltage up and see how far I can go :D

    Would they reach 1ghz? (hopefully the answer is yes):lol:

    Thanks,

    gOdman
  15. Quote:
    oh ok so I guess I'll have to buy the dominator ram first before you can tell me ... :lol: haha oh well at least if I find out that it isn't the same RAM then I can at bump the voltage up and see how far I can go :D

    Would they reach 1ghz? (hopefully the answer is yes):lol:

    Thanks,

    gOdman


    I got my doubts if they could go that high, but you won't know until you try. Watch the heat real close and run Prime95 as standard every step to make sure you don't get a high, but unstable overclock. Did that once myself. Got a very high overclock, but 10 minutes into Prime95, it would fail.
  16. If they are Micron based, they might reach 1000mhz but, there is no guarantee. The Promos will NOT likely reach 1000mhz.

    CHECK ICs HERE: http://www.houseofhelp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44365

    If you can view the memory before purchasing, check the revision AND lot code against this list.

    If you want to be guaranteed 1000mzh operation, I'd suggest the PC8500 Dominator or faster.
  17. Hopefully a 120mm fan blowing air into the top of the DIMM would provide adequate cooling at 2.4~5v? Right? That's what I'm planning to do, kind of a replacement to the dominator airflow fan.

    That is if my motherboard will allow 2.5v VDIMM... (hopefully will) :)
  18. Quote:
    Hopefully a 120mm fan blowing air into the top of the DIMM would provide adequate cooling at 2.4~5v? Right? That's what I'm planning to do, kind of a replacement to the dominator airflow fan.

    That is if my motherboard will allow 2.5v VDIMM... (hopefully will) :)
    Yes, this will actually provide more overall airflow than the Dominator fan.
  19. Yellowbeard, there is a chance I may get promo modules, what are these exactly? I myself would have thought that they would have been better (PROMOTIONAL) than normal modules.

    Would it be fair for me to think that these 'promo' modules are micron promo modules? Or am I completely wrong in my guessing?

    Obiviously they're not the best modules as the 1111mhz ram gets the highest quality ram (or whatever corsair's flagship ram is nowadays), whil/st the 800mhz cas 4 is 'incapable' of working at 1111mhz at the standard 1111mhz voltages etc..

    Woo-hoo! This is my 601st post :P
  20. Promos is a brand of IC, just like Micron, Elpida, Winbond, etc. In this case, the Promos based memory does not OC as well as the same part using Micron ICs.

    If you want 1000mhz guaranteed, you should buy memory rated at PC8000 or better.
  21. Cor! Is this the same with all memory? Eg XMS2 series?

    I would guess that the XMS2 800mhz cas 4 uses a different brand of IC than XMS2 800mhz cas 5 RAM, right?

    But what I mean is that within the same product, eg the dominator, uses promo and micron.

    Micron should overclock better...

    wow we have completely took over this thread...sorry OP :lol:
  22. Quote:
    Actually if you read both of the PDFs they both say,

    'tested at EPP settings (4-4-4-12) 2.1v'


    Look under test specs. last line.

    C4D "SPD programed at:" under where it says "test specs": "EPP standard: 5-5-5-15, 2.1v values"

    C4 "SPD programed at:" under where it says "test specs": "EPP standard: 4-4-4-12, 2.1v values at 800Mhz"
  23. ah ha ! Just read it!

    Now I see what you mean, I wouldn't worry much about it to be honest, because as long as the JEDEC values are the same (and at the same voltage) they should both be on par with one another.

    Furthermore if you look at it the C4D says:
    Quote:

    Tested at EPP SPD settings (4-4-4-12) at 2.1V at
    800MHz


    even though it says the :
    Quote:


    EPP standard 5-5-5-15, 2.1V values



    they've tested it to work at 2.1v 4-4-4-12 EPP, and they say it works, I guess that means the dominator is on par with the XMS2, same or better :D
  24. I had read the same line too, so concluded that the two ram modules were basically the same, except for the better cooling on the Dominator. And better cooling is good, right?
  25. The current Dominators 800CL4 in the market are using Promos chips, these are somewhat overclockable but will have trouble reaching 500Mhz CL5 @2.2+V
    While the regular ones are using Micron D9GMH which can do 4-5-5-xx 500Mhz @2.3v, and scale up to 550Mhz CL5 @~2.4v
  26. And the only way to find out what you're buying is after you bought the product... (if you're ordering online)

    Is it possible to return the product once bought, though unopened, sya if you didn't get the module with certain chips? I doubt it but I asked the question nevertheless. :)
  27. In the blister is stated the version, only v1.1 is using Micron ICs.
    If you already bought this version and havent open them yet, theres a thread at houseofhelp.com for people who tought were getting D9s but got Promos. Theyll be able to help you.
  28. I know, yellowbeard suggested it.

    I haven't bought it yet, thanks for telling me the version that has micron ram in, i might try and get my dad to take me to the shop a few miles away and see what revision dominator 800mhz cas4 they have. £200 mind! :x hmmm maybe I can borrow a couple hundred from my dad hehe :lol:
  29. Quote:
    If they are Micron based, they might reach 1000mhz but, there is no guarantee. The Promos will NOT likely reach 1000mhz.

    CHECK ICs HERE: http://www.houseofhelp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44365

    If you can view the memory before purchasing, check the revision AND lot code against this list.

    If you want to be guaranteed 1000mzh operation, I'd suggest the PC8500 Dominator or faster.


    that list is an eye opener! Concerning the DDR2-6400 (800Mhz) basically its a crap shot if you get an 800Mhz promos chip, you might as well end up with an OCed 533Mhz CL4 micron. Now im even more confused since everyone keeps talking about getting micron chips, on the above list the highest micron chip is rated at 667Mhz where the promos goes up to the actual 800Mhz specified.

    ok so here is the question again, (Corsair techs, if you are reading this plz reply): wich is the better C4 chip to get? (personaly i can! actually see the numbers on the Ram before i get them) obviously since i we are talking C4 chips here latency matters. and personally at a later point i would like to pressure them to 1066Mhz.
  30. Quote:

    ok so here is the question again, (Corsair techs, if you are reading this plz reply): wich is the better C4 chip to get? (personaly i can! actually see the numbers on the Ram before i get them) obviously since i we are talking C4 chips here latency matters. and personally at a later point i would like to pressure them to 1066Mhz.
    If you want to be guaranteed of 1000mhz+ operation, I would suggest you buy memory rated at 1000mhz+ such as the Dominator PC8500. Our PC6400 or 6400 Dominator with Promos ICs will not run 1000mhz.
  31. thank you. I know that might have been a bit overoptimistic, what i wanted to know was wich chip will i get the most out off. since i can view the numbers on the Ram before bying, i might as well take advantadge of it, but i need help doing so. looking at the specs, for me at least, there is a big difference between getting 667Mhz, or 800Mhz chips. But everyone is still talking about Micron instead of Promos, so im at a loss :?: :?

    ok, so given an extreme system wich chip can i push the furthest?
    basically i care more about lowering the Cas timings, then the Mhz. as long as they will run at at least the rated 800Mhz. with low latencies

    its DDR2-6400 Ram by the way.

    thank you for any help
  32. if you buy the pc2-6400 cas4 (800mhz) from corsair, you are garanteed that they will work at 800mhz cas4, even if you get a promos IC rather than a (perhaps better) micron IC.

    You are garanteed 800mhz at the latencies of 4-4-4-12 if you buy 800mhz cas4.

    Of course if you wanted cas 3 you could try putting more voltage into the modules or downclock the ram (or do both) then try and set a lower latency. In the case of bumping up the voltage it might be best to get the dominator because of the heatsink. :)
  33. Quote:
    that list is an eye opener! Concerning the DDR2-6400 (800Mhz) basically its a crap shop if you get an 800Mhz promos chip, you might as well end up with an OCed 533Mhz CL4 micron. Now im even more confused since everyone keeps talking about getting micron chips, on the above list the highest micron chip is rated at 667Mhz where the promos goes up to the actual 800Mhz specified.
    Micron rates their ICs for 1.8v operation, meaning the bottom line of their potential. As opposed to other companies that rates them at a already "overvolted" (from stock) state.

    Quote:
    ok, so given an extreme system wich chip can i push the furthest?
    basically i care more about lowering the Cas timings, then the Mhz. as long as they will run at at least the rated 800Mhz. with low latencies
    Any D9GMH can do 4-4-4-xx @2.0v, and the handpicked ones (about 5% of the whole) can do 3-3-3-xx @ ~2.1v
  34. allright, so reading up on this. The difference in the regular C4 version and Dominator datasheets, is a miss type acording to corsair. They are in fact the same Ram, only difference is the heat sink. HOWEVER and this is where it gets fun. The old DDRII-6400C4 models (v.1.1-v.1.2) use to!! have micron chips, and were identical to the old ddrII8500. now they use mostly PROMOS, while the DDRII-8500 still mostly retain the Micron chips.

    This is interresting because with one blow, pretty much every, review of the XM-6400C4 is pretty worthless. Since there is no way the Promos chips will achive the results beched in most reviews. In fact to get those results you would have to pay the 85 dollars more abd get the DDR2-8500's

    * i got a few off my friends to rip off the heat sinks. And every C4 v.1.1 and v1.2 had Micron chips, while the others were Promos mostly, and some others too. this coresponds to the IC inquery at Corsairs forums.

    So if i can i will get some DDR2-6400C4 v.1.1 or v1.2, if not then some Dominator-8500 or Crucial Balistix.

    Anyone have any experience with Crucial Balistix DDR2-6400. how do they compare with Corsairs dominator-8500?

    This is only my own experience, so no guarenties that you vill get Micron IC's if you get the v1.1 or v1.2 C4's
  35. Quote:
    This is interresting because with one blow, pretty much every, review of the XM-6400C4 is pretty worthless. Since there is no way the Promos chips will achive the results beched in most reviews. In fact to get those results you would have to pay the 85 dollars more abd get the DDR2-8500's
    Or you can get another brand that does use Microns :wink:
  36. True. But there is a difference between what the brands can do with a Micron chip.

    Anyway for those who care about getting Micron chips take a look here:http://ramlist.ath.cx/ddr2/

    and thanks for all the replies 8)
  37. Quote:
    True. But there is a difference between what the brands can do with a Micron chip.
    Its too slight to be important. In any case theyre highly binned chips or handpicked ones. Dont rely on brands too much...
  38. I dont. I'm actually looking at quite a few different Ram, Right now i think i will go with some Cellchock ddr2-6400 @ 4-4-4-12. That have the same Micron chips as as Corsairs Dominator 8500. but they are almost a 100$ cheaper. My only problem is that i have an Asus P5B-E plus, wich is notoriously problematic when it comes to Ram. But if the Cellchock is compatible i will get those.
  39. Where are you getting the Cellshock from? Link please :D
  40. Local web shop. I live in Denmark, i dont think they will ship outside DK.
  41. Enough for me to know where to hunt them down :wink:
  42. ups, sorry forgot to tell you im comparing them to the DDR2-8500 from corsair, since they use the exact same Micron chips. and i havent quite forgiven corsair for giving high end Micron chips to the reviewers and then selling promos chips to the consumer :evil: grr.

    anyway im getting the Cellchock at the local shop here in Denmark, i think they have a web out let, i can ask if they will ship to you, if you tell me what country you are in.

    the price in 2400 Danish Kroner. wich is 422us. the corsair-6400 (with Promos chips) are 404us and the dominator-8500 is 527us
  43. Quote:
    ups, sorry forgot to tell you im comparing them to the DDR2-8500 from corsair, since they use the exact same Micron chips. and i havent quite forgiven corsair for giving high end Micron chips to the reviewers and then selling promos chips to the consumer :evil: grr.
    There is nothing to forgive as we never gave any PC6400 of any kind to any reviewers. This is an old and tired subject. Please get your facts straight.
  44. Fine. I´ll leave it alone, let me just say that every review i have seen on the DDR2-6400C4 have been of chips with Micron D9, the same chips that are in the Dominator-8500. And now when ever i tear off the heat sinks on any C4 i mostly find promos chips.

    Those promos chips are NOT the chips given great praise in the reviews.

    I suggest that you advertise what chips are really under the heatsink. Because it DOES matter.
  45. does corsair keep a publicly available list of its ram that uses microns?
  46. Yep. Ramguy is doing a stellar job: right here note how many chips are really the same.

    But tjek this one out: Ram with Micron List
  47. Quote:
    Fine. I´ll leave it alone, let me just say that every review i have seen on the DDR2-6400C4 have been of chips with Micron D9, the same chips that are in the Dominator-8500. And now when ever i tear off the heat sinks on any C4 i mostly find promos chips.

    Those promos chips are NOT the chips given great praise in the reviews.

    I suggest that you advertise what chips are really under the heatsink. Because it DOES matter.
    First, HERE IS OUR IC LIST. It is publicly available.

    And, when we realized there was an issue with the Dominators, WE DID THIS.

    Also, I have never seen a review of our Dominator PC6400C4D. Can you point me to one? The only PC6400C4 review I have ever seen is from Xbit labs back in April and it was not Dominator.
  48. thank you that link explains a great deal :)

    I should state its by no means personal. thing is my mother board will boot with ddr2-6400C4 based on Micron (i have tested 2 so far) but would
    NOT boot with the Promos (i tried 4) eventually i RMA'd my Mobo, but was left with a sour taste in my mouth, since i paid WAY more for my Corsair Ram then most other brands rated at the same speed. personally i looked at the Xbit lab i thought hey these ram are cool, but with the promos chip there is NO WAY they will bech that high.

    fact remains, the xbit review is still a very read review, and the the current Promos Ram is NOT on pair with those results.
  49. Quote:
    fact remains, the xbit review is still a very read review, and the the current Promos Ram is NOT on pair with those results.
    You are correct. But, the Promos will meet and even exceed specifications, just not as well as Micron.

    As to the Xbit labs review, they did not review Dominator at all. And, for them to make the statements they did was in my opinion, irresponsible as they were inaccurate on more than 1 point.
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