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RIDICULOUS Problem? 7800GS too cool temperature issue

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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January 1, 2007 2:35:25 AM

So here is my story. Am I going crazy or something? Tech support is saying my card is to cool at 35C? The problem is I think he could be right. Reason being is that it is getting colder in my bedroom (wintertime). Any Advice is appreaciated.

My card is a BFG 7800GS OC AGP 256MB

Initial Question:

I have been noticing that my card is not up to par with what it should be. Any game I play is really choppy. There was a point where I could shutdown the computer and restart it and everything would be fine. Recently this is not the case and there is poor performance no matter what I try. I have tried most everything to fix the issue. I have reinstalled my video driver and updated it to the latest version from the site (see print screens). I have been checking my temperatures and I also have an add-in fan next to for extra cooling. I have a 600W PS so I would guess thats overkill. Its running at about 112 to 117 degrees consistantly. Nothing really seems to be the matter besides my card. It is seriously running slower than my old video card (which was an ATI radion all-in-wonder something or other). My system itself is running great with no performance issues at all.

Tech Reply:

If the card is running below 40C, which your's is, it has problems. Your
video card is running to cold, you need to take that cooling fan away from the card. Once it gets over 40C, you should be fine.

Second Question:

With all due respect, I am fairly certian that this has nothing to do with my problem. I have never heard of something not performing well because it is too cold. In fact the cooler the better, in pc components. Heat is the enemy. The only time when cold temps are a problem is when it starts to cause condensation. Water is also an enemy to circuits. I have been fighting with this thing for a while now. At least 2 weeks of reinstalling drivers, flashing the bios, searching the entire internet for some clue as how to fix it. You are my last resort to go to because the only thing I haven't done is replace the video card. In spite of my beliefs I did as you have instructed me to and the issue is still present. The add-in cooling card really didn't do too much for the temperatures and they are nearly the same as before. Ive attached a printscreen, even the driver is showing the temperature in the GREEN range. I dug my old card out of the closet and have decided to switch back to my old card for now and everything is stable, although slower with game play. There are no wacky benchmarks or video display problems. My BFG 78000GS OC is simply not working at full throttle, and sometimes not at all. I'm sorry if I sound like a know-it-all but I am trying to get my point across that there is something wrong here.

Second Reply:

This is a known issue with the 7800 GS. We have not been told by our
engineers when they will get it fixed.
January 1, 2007 2:57:20 AM

Never heard of that...
I water-cool my 7900GS and it sits below 40C almost all the time with no performance problems. It could be true for your card, though. Try warming it up a bit, maybe and see if that works. :) 
January 1, 2007 3:30:46 AM

I guess you could try blowing a hair dryer on it... but you aren't going to see any results. My 7800GT overclocked fairly high doesn't get over 44C under full load and keeps up with any 7800GT I have seen.

What is the rest of your system? I sense a bottleneck somewhere...
Related resources
January 1, 2007 3:45:51 AM

That really doesn't make any kind of sense! But if the tech support said it was the case, you should at least try to take his advice and see what happens.

Worst thing that could happen is that your computer is exactly the same as it was. Perhaps you could flip the fan around. Maybe run something that will warm the card up without stressing it too much before playing a game, maybe run 3dmark 03 or something for a minute or two to warm it up. At least it couldn't hurt...
January 1, 2007 4:27:10 AM

Download Rivatuner and ATITool. Use rivatuner to slow down the fan on your video card as much as possible and then use ati tool and just click on the "show 3d view" button when it opens. Then you will see your temps rise.
a b Î Nvidia
January 1, 2007 4:32:02 AM

If the older card works fine, there is an issue with your video card. Either the 7800GS is bad, or its drawing to much power for your 600W PSU to handle. (not all 600Ws are made the same.) I suppose it could be a driver issue, try up/down dating your drivers.
January 1, 2007 4:44:03 AM

Tech support must be retarded. Anyway, you can always OC your card to raise temps. :D 

And if they are giving you a hard time, I would return your card to the vendor and exchange for eVGA/XFX. That is a bunch of BS. I have a 7600gt with non-stock cooling that runs at 36c (oc'd) on idle with 0 problems. They are smoking crack.
January 1, 2007 5:03:49 AM

Thanks for the suggestions guys however, No bottlenecks. I got an athalon 3400 OC'ed to 2.45 and 2GB or Ram and a Raid 0. I have the card OC'ed moderately from GPU 400 to 481 and the memory (reading is f'ed up say 2.65Ghz (double of what it is actually supposed to be; I think stock is 1350?) . Who knows if the readings are even right I think the cards firmware or Bios is damaged? Seems like one of those small anoying hardware glitched. I wish it would just fry so I can get a new one! :lol: 
January 1, 2007 1:38:57 PM

I'd send it in for a new one to be sure.

Quote:
If the card is running below 40C, which your's is, it has problems. Your
video card is running to cold, you need to take that cooling fan away from the card. Once it gets over 40C, you should be fine.


Ya, it needs to heat up to work. :roll: Don't ever listen to that shit. The dumbaz is gonna get you to fry your half-working card now. Conduction flows easier in cold temps. - notice artifacting occurs more often at high GPU temps. Some of these tech support people are truly clueless, they look down at thier guideline papers to help someone through a problem.

Job requirement: Must be able to read.
January 1, 2007 2:10:10 PM

Interesting, I wouldn't think that "low" temps" could ever be an issue. I've got an XFX 7800GS in my comp that I've had since June 06. Just cruzin the web or messing with photos and watching DVD the GPU temps are in the low 40's. After a couple of hours of game play, FEAR, Dark Messiah, Farcry, Serious Sam 2, it can push it the mid 50's. I've never had any kind of issue with it execpt when it come to some older games. Those are dirver related. You might want to try a different set of drivers just for the heck of it.This is what I'm using now.
In your situation I'd be prepared to RMA it and seek a replacement.
DC
January 1, 2007 3:22:57 PM

I don't know who the tech person you spoke to was, but hopefully you got his name and you should report him. Computer processors in testing and overclocking can be phase cooled down to - 58 Celcius and lower. This is a common practice.

Well there are several possible problems that may be affecting it.

You didn't mention your computer specs, to little ram could be an issue, but lets say you have that covered there could be other problems with your computer.

Cheap power supplies sometimes have problems with stable voltages and that could be causing your problem. Even better quality power supplies lose stability over time due to their use of electrolytic capacitors. As they age liquid evaporates and the power supply doesn't function as well as it should.

This leads to the next possibility that the stability issue may be affected by capacitors on your mother boards wearing out, depending on how old your motherboard is. So if you have an older computer look at the motherboard and look for the tops of capacitors cracked or the bottoms with liquid leaking out.

The other possibility is the video card could be defective. Obviously you've run a defrag and a scandisk before you sent this article, and assuming your ram is ok and you have more than 25% space left on your hard drive, the inconsistent performance could be a defective video card. Stuff like that does happen.
January 1, 2007 5:33:59 PM

In short: The AGP varient of the 7800 GS sux.

The memory speed you're talking about is post-DDR not pre-DDR.
The Video cards memory is thus actually running at around 1400 MHz (post-DDR). (or 700 MHz pre-DDR).


Comparing it to, say, a 7900 GT with 550 GPU core, and 1800 MHz (post-DDR) GDDR3 memory is not an equal comparison. (24 pipelines, higher core clock, and +30% more video memory throughput).

Also consider that it is the AGP varient and may have some pipelines disabled, etc, etc...

Try restoring all your clock-speeds to normal too. ie: No overclocking on ANY parts in your system, then post some results and the settings used to get them.

Post the URL to the Futuremark ORB (Online Results Browser) pages you get, so we can make comparisons.

:?: Are you making comparisons to identical spec Athlon 64 systems ?

:arrow: What mainboard do you have ? and what chipset does it use ?

:arrow: List ALL drivers you have ever installed on this PC, both before and after changing the video card, including chipset drivers for the mainboard:
January 1, 2007 5:50:23 PM

Never can it be to cool that tech dude is so wrong. My gpu is 18 to 22 water cooled and blower fans. You dont need to worry about moisture unless you are water cooled and at that dielectric paste will be enough to protect the parts from mositure. The cooler the better and my benches have shown the cooler gpu, cpu the better the the benches are, others have proven this too also this gives us better ocing
January 2, 2007 2:13:25 AM

UPDATE: Card is back to normal performance with 3rd party driver. Yes I know I should be ashamed of myself when it was a driver all along.

http://www.driverheavendownloads.net/zeropoint.htm

And Yes guys I've learned my lesson include my specs I get it! I had a nice print screen for the Idoit tech guy but I forgot to post it. Sorry.

THE GUTS IN MY BOX . . .

New Castle Athalon 3400+ (OCed 2.45Ghz)
Abit AV8 Socket 939 Motherboard with VIA K8T800 Chipset
Ultra 2GB DDR PC3200
Raid 0 (2x 200GB SATA with plenty of room)
BFG 7800GB OC 256MB (Oced to 488/1350)
Coolmaster ATX Case (2x 120mm fans)
eXtreme Power 600W Power Supply

DRIVERS . . . Please don't make me list em'

The card is back to normal for the time being. All the memory readings for the card are back to normal and the card WORKING PERFECT UNDER 40 degress C. If anyone else is having the issue try these drivers out. I still can't believe nvidia can't make a working driver for their own card. Thanks for the RivaTuner suggestion I like your thinking style lmao!

Thanks again for the help and I will tell Tim S. from BFG on bahalf of us all to go suck a freakin' lemon to put it nicely.
January 2, 2007 2:49:49 AM

The tech guy could have just said:

"I dont know the answer", rather than make up stuff.

One word is all that is needed to reply to him: "Lol"

EDIT: Tell the tech guy I said he should retire quickly and hang himself.
January 2, 2007 7:19:57 AM

When in doubt:

"I don't know off the top of my head.... BUT I CAN FIND OUT FOR YOU"

- Training 101 - ANY task
January 2, 2007 1:57:03 PM

You have to be in sales with a line like that, only good sales dudes do that very nicely said.
January 2, 2007 2:22:09 PM

Quote:
When in doubt:

"I don't know off the top of my head.... BUT I CAN FIND OUT FOR YOU"

- Training 101 - ANY task


:D :D :D :D 
January 2, 2007 3:18:03 PM

I, too, recently purchased and installed a BFG 7800GS, along with a CoolMax 450W PSU w/140mm fan. I initially had installed the 93.71 Forceware drivers, which do NOT play well with this card. So, I overwrote the drivers with the ones that came on the install CD (84.40), voila! The card, she works beautifully! ;D

I also have RivaTuner 2.0(FR), NvStrap/NvTray. Got it OC'ed to 483/1338, coolbits and Fan control installed. I idle around 40-45, 55-60C under load. If your system is otherwise great, this card is a real treat. However, if you don't have the power (probably the biggest cause of headaches with this card) or the rest of you system is sub-par, this card won't save you.

I previously owned a BFG FX5500, which got a 3dMark'05 score of 318 (and yes, I know how pathetic that is!). Now (with the OC'ing) I get 5865. Before I (tried to) played Quake4 @800X600, low Details- 17-18 fps. Now I play at 1024x728, High detail @50-60 fps. Simularly spectacular results with Doom3, HalfLife 2, and other DX8-9 titles.
January 2, 2007 3:19:21 PM

Yeah, lol.
Once I was talking to a guy about BF2, I could barely understand WTF he was saying. I was telling him that BF2 didn't like my graphics card (it didn't, the card was an FX5200, ugh) and he was telling me that there was no such thing as a graphics card! 8O
I asked him where he was and he said he lived in pradesh or where ever the fick that is.
SO LAME.
-cm
January 2, 2007 3:47:54 PM

ROFLMAO x 1,000,000,000,000,000


Remove the fan and void your warranty is what he was asking you to do. (Yes it states if you remove the fan, or use an aftermarket one, your warranty is void).

There is no such thing as a processor (GPU or otherwise) running too cold, unless it is soo cold that it is slowing the movement of electrons though the chip. I believe this temp is somewhere near -256c.


I would call up their CR *customer relations and tell them they are full of crap.
January 2, 2007 3:52:54 PM

Quote:
I'd send it in for a new one to be sure.

Yes, it does sound like he needs to send this card in for replacement. Once a card has bitten you, you can never fully trust it again. :wink:

Quote:
Job requirement: Must be able to read.

These days I think that's less of a requirement and more of a recommended guideline. :D 
January 2, 2007 3:56:05 PM

Quote:
EDIT: Tell the tech guy I said he should retire quickly and hang himself.
In whatever order he wants. :p 
January 2, 2007 3:59:16 PM

It should be. Reading is not a requirement for graduation, why should it be a requirement in real life?


To be fair, Most lvl 1 techs tend to make up information when the "iduno" instinct kicks in.

Sample: Dell lvl 1 tech:
Me: replace my bad memory
Dell: Did you run our diagnostics?
Me: Yes but i didnt show anything wrong. I used PCCheck (known program)
Dell: Dell's memory test only tests the memory under the CMOS (not Bios) environment, so if your experiencing memory issues in windows, it wont detect it.
Me: Huh? Anyway, PCcheck is not a windows based program
Dell: You need to run the rest of our diagnostics and call me back.


Calls Dell: Your memory test shows I have bad ram. Come and replace
Dell: Ok on our way.
January 2, 2007 4:11:00 PM

In the defense of the BFG rep, he is not completely crazy. I have seen an issue with some video cards in particular a few of the 7800GS AGP cards that had what was called the "Cold Bug". As you know normally the video card will slow down or "throttle down" if it gets past a set temperature in an attempt to protect itself. Well on some cards there is a flip side to the max temp or a "too cold" temp and thus if the video cards temp gets below this the video card would throttle down. There were not very many cards that had this issue but there should be a bios fix for this. Ask him for an updated bios, which has the correct temp settings and this should resolve your issue.

XFX Support
January 2, 2007 4:11:30 PM

I got the same card works great, np with the new drivers 93.71 there has to be some other reason for the drivers and your card.


Btw add this to your reg..
Go to :HKEY_Local_Machine\system\currentcontrolset\control\session Manager\memory management and change or add this dword. To change you will right click on iopagelocklimit, modify, to add a word you will right click in the right side and click in the open area slect new. We need a Dword saying (IoPageLockLimit) now modify,(iopagelocklimit to 1000 in hex). What you are doing here is loading IO operations in memory. What this solve is loading of drivers and dx during game play or application, flashing of screen, slower response time to IO operations like sound drivers being linked to the IO operations of the sound processing channel. These are just a few things adding this line to your registry will help.This keeps the core Windows system to be kept in memory and not paged to disk. 1000 hex works good with 1gb of memory oc'ed high quality memory.


Also modify the DisablePaging Executive to 1 you will have better access time to your drives very usefull when decoding movies.

Little bit more with IOpagelocklimit 1000 hex = 4096 KB

2000 hex = 8192 KB

HKEY_L_M\System\currrentcontrolset\control\session manager\memory management.
add dword, (IoPageLockLimit), Modify to 1000 hex.
No brackets or comas with the dword[/img]
January 2, 2007 4:16:01 PM

Hells no. That tech (and the company he represents) should not be given credit.

Tech asked him to remove the fan, which is a clear violation of the warranty. Also, if the user wasn't skilled enough, he could ruin his computer, or do other damage.

That tech should be fired IMO.
January 2, 2007 4:41:34 PM

Just when I think the forumz have no surprises for me, I see XFX support solve a problem with a BFG card that BFG was too stupid to articulate. Isn't that against some sort of company policy for you guys? :wink:

BTW, if anybody ever asks me about "BFG vs XFX" I'll definitely steer them towards XFX.
January 2, 2007 4:45:03 PM

There any way to tell if they are actually representatives of XFX?
January 2, 2007 5:01:47 PM

Not really. Is there any way for us to tell whether or not you own a PC shop and are affiliated with Comp TIA in any way?

But, I think XFX is for real because I've seen them help people create RMA tickets and whatnot. BTW, props to XFX for being cool enough to start posting on THG forumz. If I worked for a place like that I can't imagine management actually being like "hey, that's a good idea!".
January 2, 2007 5:07:07 PM

Well, there are other forums out there where people like New Egg, XFX, BFG register, however, they get special tags from the forum (website) owners stating they are who they are.
January 2, 2007 6:31:05 PM

Quote:
It should be. Reading is not a requirement for graduation, why should it be a requirement in real life?


To be fair, Most lvl 1 techs tend to make up information when the "iduno" instinct kicks in.

Sample: Dell lvl 1 tech:
Me: replace my bad memory
Dell: Did you run our diagnostics?
Me: Yes but i didnt show anything wrong. I used PCCheck (known program)
Dell: Dell's memory test only tests the memory under the CMOS (not Bios) environment, so if your experiencing memory issues in windows, it wont detect it.
Me: Huh? Anyway, PCcheck is not a windows based program
Dell: You need to run the rest of our diagnostics and call me back.


Calls Dell: Your memory test shows I have bad ram. Come and replace
Dell: Ok on our way.


What surprised me is that i can actually believe that happening!
January 2, 2007 6:39:16 PM

Dell is our primary supplier... and I can tell you, that is not uncommon.
Likewise, when i was working as a tech in a shop, we dealt with (and still do), many calls to manufactures per week. The best (consistently acceptable) company was gateway... great support over all ( what I mean is, good support that lacks the level of stupidity of the other guys).


To note: this only applies to lvl 1 techs, and some lvl 2s. If you ask for a lvl 2 tech, they should transfer you without being ugly about it.
January 2, 2007 6:40:38 PM

Quote:
To note: this only applies to lvl 1 techs, and some lvl 2s. If you ask for a lvl 2 tech, they should transfer you without being ugly about it.


How many tech levels are there? Is it like some kinda RPG where you gain experience from answering calls and level up?
January 2, 2007 6:50:41 PM

I believe it is standard in most call centers, be it computer support, or AOL, to have 3 levels of technicians.

lvl 1: recruit, training, general experience
lvl 2: Experience in the call center and how to properly provide for the customer
lvl 3: Manager'ish type of technician, well trained in the field, many certs.


I have never hit a tech above lvl 3, (nor 2 for that mater). Since I usually what to say, or what the problem is, I just bully the first guy on the phone to do what I want ;) 


I would say if you ever need to escalate a problem beyond a lvl 3 guy, have them transfer you to Customer Relations and let them deal it out. Easier, and you may end up with some extra stuff for your time.
January 3, 2007 1:43:54 AM

Thanks for this :D 

Had the same problem on my Gainwood 7800GS+ 24PP (Gainwood cooler).
Temp. readings all over the place, -242'c :? , 14'c, 48~70'c(idle to full), room temp. 25'c (air con.).
Only happened after I installed the 93.71 drivers.
The card ran like a dog if it didn't have normal temps. (48~).
January 3, 2007 3:02:32 AM

Ahh... this is good information!
<logs information away>

I'm dissappointed in BFG from this forum. I always thought that their service was all around excellent. :?
-cm
January 3, 2007 10:18:55 AM

Funny, unlike you guys, when the tech says "remove the fan," I assume he's talking about the extra fan I'd told him that I had installed:

Quote:
I have been noticing that my card is not up to par with what it should be. Any game I play is really choppy. There was a point where I could shutdown the computer and restart it and everything would be fine. Recently this is not the case and there is poor performance no matter what I try. I have tried most everything to fix the issue. I have reinstalled my video driver and updated it to the latest version from the site (see print screens). I have been checking my temperatures and I also have an add-in fan next to for extra cooling. I have a 600W PS so I would guess thats overkill. Its running at about 112 to 117 degrees consistantly. Nothing really seems to be the matter besides my card. It is seriously running slower than my old video card (which was an ATI radion all-in-wonder something or other). My system itself is running great with no performance issues at all.



Also: google proves that you guys are a bit on the uninformed side
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=7800GS+cold+bu...

The 7800 PCI-E cards clocked themselves WAY down at 32C, and it looks like the AGP version hits the same problem at 38 or 40C.[/quote]
January 3, 2007 2:01:51 PM

Pwnd by a stranger! 8O
-cm

Good link, BTW.
January 4, 2007 8:57:24 AM

Yeah, my 7800GS had exactly the same problem, particularly with the side fan blowing cold air right onto it (the problem was less common with that fan disconnected). The XFX BIOS change solved it permanently.
January 4, 2007 8:55:35 PM

He should have been able to tell him about the bios fix.

If the card isn't heating up, it's because of something. Inadiquate power, drivers, bios, something. It's not gonna roll over and die because it's cold in the fist place (especialy when it has power going through it).

Fire him.
January 4, 2007 9:11:49 PM

Quote:
Ahh... this is good information!
<logs information away>

I'm dissappointed in BFG from this forum. I always thought that their service was all around excellent. :?
-cm


Naw man, it's just like Dell. They've hired 2000 native Koreans whom you can't understand a word. Trying to give her my bank account information (so that she could understand it) was similar to telling a 6 year old how to do something.

It's not her fault, but Dell's. They need to either give people english lessons or not hire them.
January 5, 2007 5:48:57 AM

Quote:
Ahh... this is good information!
<logs information away>

I'm dissappointed in BFG from this forum. I always thought that their service was all around excellent. :?
-cm


Naw man, it's just like Dell. They've hired 2000 native Koreans whom you can't understand a word. Trying to give her my bank account information (so that she could understand it) was similar to telling a 6 year old how to do something.

It's not her fault, but Dell's. They need to either give people english lessons or not hire them.

Or get call centres in a country that speaks English natively! Preferably not a country that has bastardised it :D  (It being the English languagae).
January 5, 2007 7:11:19 AM

Quote:
Ahh... this is good information!
<logs information away>

I'm dissappointed in BFG from this forum. I always thought that their service was all around excellent. :?
-cm


Naw man, it's just like Dell. They've hired 2000 native Koreans whom you can't understand a word. Trying to give her my bank account information (so that she could understand it) was similar to telling a 6 year old how to do something.

It's not her fault, but Dell's. They need to either give people english lessons or not hire them.

Or get call centres in a country that speaks English natively! Preferably not a country that has bastardised it :D  (It being the English languagae).Naw, they spent all the money on the AMD processors they are using as of late.
January 5, 2007 7:02:49 PM

Quote:
quantumsheep wrote:
blacken wrote:
celewign wrote:
Ahh... this is good information!
<logs information away>

I'm dissappointed in BFG from this forum. I always thought that their service was all around excellent. Confused
-cm


Naw man, it's just like Dell. They've hired 2000 native Koreans whom you can't understand a word. Trying to give her my bank account information (so that she could understand it) was similar to telling a 6 year old how to do something.

It's not her fault, but Dell's. They need to either give people english lessons or not hire them.


Or get call centres in a country that speaks English natively! Preferably not a country that has bastardised it Very Happy (It being the English languagae).
Naw, they spent all the money on the AMD processors they are using as of late.


<random irrelevant untruthful noob rant about Intel "fanboy" Dade>
January 6, 2007 7:25:56 AM

Quote:
Intel < RISC


WTF ?, Intel x86 processors have been internally RISC for ages. All there x64 capable chips are internally RISC, and IA-64 is RISC.

Where did this comment even come from ?, What has it got to do with a 7800GS been too cool ?

:?
January 6, 2007 9:58:18 AM

dude my eyes are rolling around all night long very nice posting why do they have to be so bouncy and soft looking.
January 6, 2007 1:56:32 PM

Quote:
Intel < RISC


WTF ?, Intel x86 processors have been internally RISC for ages. All there x64 capable chips are internally RISC, and IA-64 is RISC.

Where did this comment even come from ?, What has it got to do with a 7800GS been too cool ?

:?


Fine SPARC > INTEL
Goooooooooooo Silicone Graphics! Another computer manufacturer that people neglect.

http://www.sgi.com/products/remarketed/prism/configs.ht...
January 6, 2007 4:57:16 PM

Yeah, but SGI stopped selling MIPS and started selling IA-64.

Thus the irony continues - :lol: 
!