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Mid-range DX10 cards?

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  • Graphics Cards
  • Compatibility
  • Graphics
Last response: in Graphics Cards
January 1, 2007 7:00:56 PM

Right now it appears the only DX10 video cards being made are hugely expensive ultimate badasses, but will either nVidia or ATi be releasing anything DX10-compatible to replace things like the 7600GT any time soon? (IOW, video cards that retail for under $200.) Or is that a long way off still?

More about : mid range dx10 cards

January 1, 2007 7:03:23 PM

Probably Spring.
January 1, 2007 7:04:43 PM

Quote:
Probably Spring.

Anything definate? Or just speculation/rumor?
Related resources
January 1, 2007 7:10:03 PM

Nothing definite. Just speculation.
a c 224 U Graphics card
January 1, 2007 7:32:40 PM

As a pessimist, I going with late 2Q/early 3Q. June or July is when you'll see them.

I do wonder what Nvidia is doing with any defective cards. Either they are getting 100% yields, or they are holding onto the chips to release later? Why not disable the pipes now, and release the 8600GT?
January 1, 2007 7:37:39 PM

Iv found this http://www.mikeshardware.co.uk/RoadmapQ107.htm but i dnt know how accurate this is tho. It says that the G83 mid and G82 low range cards will be resealed in Q1 2007 near the realese of the R600 which would make a lot of scene
January 1, 2007 8:17:36 PM

Considering that DX10 optimized games (or even games that support DX10 shaders) will likely not become mainstream until probably the end of 2007 (95% of gamers still have DX9 hardware), it makes no sense to release a low/mid end DX10 card that will perform poorly.

The 8600GTS, a high end (not ultra high end like the GTX, but still) card only barely outpaces the top ATI card from the last DX9 generation.
Gamers who have good DX9 hardware (something like a 7900GT and up) will probably not benefit *AT ALL* from a midrange DX10 card.

Taking all this into consideration, the low/midrange (<200$) DX10 card only makes sense once DX10 support becomes a necessity, and not a "bonus".


My 2c

Cheers

HAppy NY everyone !!!
January 1, 2007 9:48:43 PM

Quote:
Considering that DX10 optimized games (or even games that support DX10 shaders) will likely not become mainstream until probably the end of 2007 (95% of gamers still have DX9 hardware), it makes no sense to release a low/mid end DX10 card that will perform poorly.

Why would they perform "poorly?" Would not an "8600GT" perform better than a 7600GT (in much the same way the 7600GT is faster than the 6600GT)?

Quote:
Gamers who have good DX9 hardware (something like a 7900GT and up) will probably not benefit *AT ALL* from a midrange DX10 card.

The 7900GT seems to go for about $230, and thus it is logical that a newer sub-$200 video card would not offer enormously better performance. But suppose someone were upgrading from, say, a 6600 (non-GT), not a 7900GT.

Further, some of the things I've read about DX10 suggest that it's more "efficient" and can offer gains in performance if it's being used with DX10 hardware. Supposedly, a DX10 video card should gain performance benefits from the software end of things alone, much less an improvement in hardware. If what I read was true and not just marketing hype and BS.

I'm interested in this because I'm planning on buying a new computer in the not too distant future, and I'd rather get a mid-range DX10 card than getting a mid-range DX9 card (like the 7600GT) and then upgrading it not long after that. I'd like to get as much longevity out of it as I can without spending a lot of money, so if a mid-range DX10 video card is on the horizon, I'd rather wait and go with it than to get a DX9 one that I'd have to replace sooner.
January 1, 2007 10:16:18 PM

Quote:
Considering that DX10 optimized games (or even games that support DX10 shaders) will likely not become mainstream until probably the end of 2007 (95% of gamers still have DX9 hardware), it makes no sense to release a low/mid end DX10 card that will perform poorly.

They will come out, not because of DX10, but because of a new architecture of the GPU. G80 and R600 aren't released because of DX10, but because it's time for a new GPU, so different versions, low, mid, high end are to be expected.

It also forces prices down (somewhat), if there is competition. 7600GT (7 series mid-range card) is better than a 6800Ultra (6 series top-end card), and cheaper. They know they can attract buyers, because people will rather buy a current mid-range card which is better and cheaper. This is also because they would rather produce newer chips, rather than produce them along with old technology.

So I can't really see how DX10 has a direct impact on "mid-range DX10 cards".
January 1, 2007 10:26:18 PM

Maybe it needs to be repeatedly repeated for him to get it. :lol: 
a c 224 U Graphics card
January 1, 2007 10:31:30 PM

Quote:
bah, the whole point of a mid-range dx-10 card is for the dx-10 support. And I disagree with what you said about a 7900xxx beating a 8600gt. I can tell you that xfx has a 7600gt that beats two 6800xt's in sli. If the 7600gt killed the top of the line geforce 6 gpu, then I don't see why the midrange dx-10 cards won't perform better than high end dx-9 cpus. All the nvidia ones will use the same g80 gpu just at different paths until the newer one comes out for the 8900xxx series and the low end will have a weaker gpu too, but other than that, its mainly clockspeed and path openings that will make a difference


The 6800XT is NOT a top of the line 6800. They are near the bottom of the barrel.

Depending on the midrange card, and how its setup, it won't be faster then the previous high end. Its never happend before, I doubt it will happen now. The midrange cards could perform worse then the current higher end cards because of clocks being to slow, or not enough pipelines. The 8600GT will perform quite well, but I doubt it will be faster then the x1950XT.
January 1, 2007 10:57:20 PM

I'm not so sure about that, because my old 9700 pro (bless its soul) performs on par with the x1300 i bought to replace it. the x1300 is TWO generations older.
I'd sure hope the x1900xtx or whatever would beat a low end g82 or whatever the number would be. It would just have more features (dx10). They are cheap for a reason.
January 1, 2007 11:39:11 PM

I'm still sticking with my guess that the entry and mid-range cards will arrive with Vista in 30 days. I know people on this forum don't think about it but 95% of pc owners don't need a performance GPU. A lot of people have strong 2005/2006 PCI-e systems that just need more memory and a $120 max DX10 card. Neither company wants to miss out on all those upgraders.

Plus businesses will now start looking into Vista and they'll need to investigate what minimum level of cards thousands of their desktops need to run Vista. Or if they just need to replace systems, and how many. It's a long project and we'll look at it department by department but it will take a while to sort it all out in time to turn in the 2008 budget.
January 2, 2007 12:05:01 AM

Quote:
Right now it appears the only DX10 video cards being made are hugely expensive ultimate badasses, but will either nVidia or ATi be releasing anything DX10-compatible to replace things like the 7600GT any time soon? (IOW, video cards that retail for under $200.) Or is that a long way off still?


Perhaps never. If hurricanes create more havoc this summer than last...new laws could be passed inhibiting the power usage of modern technologies. Not really speculation, but it IS a possibility. Never rule anything out. Nobody expected the Soviet Union to collapse. Nobody expected Hitler to create such a problem. Nobody really expects global warming to be real threat until it's too late. :-)
January 2, 2007 12:18:23 AM

The badass cards are great, but entry and mid-range wins the war. This year and next should be HUGE for ATI and nvidia. Beyond sales volume, even more importantly are their prices and product mix at given performance levels. These Vista/DX10 type deals don't come along that often, and it's times like this that major market share is gained and lost if they get it right or wrong. Plus with AMD's leadership starting to steer ATI, that adds to potential misteps. Should be very exciting.
January 3, 2007 5:26:28 PM

Quote:
The badass cards are great, but entry and mid-range wins the war. This year and next should be HUGE for ATI and nvidia. Beyond sales volume, even more importantly are their prices and product mix at given performance levels. These Vista/DX10 type deals don't come along that often, and it's times like this that major market share is gained and lost if they get it right or wrong. Plus with AMD's leadership starting to steer ATI, that adds to potential misteps. Should be very exciting.


Exactly, which is why I'm holding off on all my upgrades for now.
January 3, 2007 5:28:05 PM

Quote:
True, a possibility, but an unlikely one


And then you open up any newspaper and you find natural disasters around the globe...

Like this one!

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/12/27/internet_earthquake/

and you think...wow...that could happen anywhere...

Or you're high on pot and don't think much of anything. Oh well.
January 3, 2007 8:02:10 PM

A guy at nVidia hinted that the midrange DX10 cards will be out around March/April.... He couldn't be specific because the last guy who leaked info about the 8800 got canned....

8O
January 4, 2007 12:28:36 AM

Quote:
not a bad thought

@ crapola, do you know what the guy that got canned said?


Not exactly, but I guess it was all the info about 8800 before it was officially released. The nVidia guy said that they are being really tight lipped about the next releases. He also guaranteed that their cards would be better than the ATI stuff...., but then, he works for the company.... :D 
January 4, 2007 12:46:44 AM

Wow, RyanMicah, congrads on that post count. I remember when you were a mere journeyman.
-cm
January 4, 2007 2:52:00 AM

Quote:
Wow, RyanMicah, congrads on that post count. I remember when you were a mere journeyman.
-cm


Takes one to know one. I've been gone for several weeks because of the holidays. (and insolent little...oh nevermind.) You're a god among internet men Cel. You pwned me good dammit.
January 4, 2007 3:17:12 AM

Quote:
kinda random, but ok


Yes, yes it is.
January 4, 2007 5:34:32 AM

Quote:
kinda random, but ok


Yes, yes it is.

I LOVE DONUTS.
January 4, 2007 6:47:52 AM

Quote:
kinda random, but ok


Yes, yes it is.

I LOVE DONUTS.

Who doesn't?
January 4, 2007 8:53:05 AM

I like the dusted plain ones - ones with jam centres or icing coatings I am not too keen on to be honest.
January 4, 2007 10:27:46 AM

RyanMicah <- is not a fan of custard. Usually.
a c 224 U Graphics card
January 4, 2007 4:30:34 PM

Party thread???
January 4, 2007 5:08:58 PM

Quote:
Right now it appears the only DX10 video cards being made are hugely expensive ultimate badasses, but will either nVidia or ATi be releasing anything DX10-compatible to replace things like the 7600GT any time soon? (IOW, video cards that retail for under $200.) Or is that a long way off still?


Perhaps never. If hurricanes create more havoc this summer than last...new laws could be passed inhibiting the power usage of modern technologies. Not really speculation, but it IS a possibility. Never rule anything out. Nobody expected the Soviet Union to collapse. Nobody expected Hitler to create such a problem. Nobody really expects global warming to be real threat until it's too late. :-)

Well, if the US for one would end their silly self-imposed moratorium on building new nuke plants and pebble-bed reactors started popping up everywhere I could run my 1.9 jigawatt video card without any guilt about my carbon footprint.
January 4, 2007 5:52:05 PM

Quote:
As a pessimist, I going with late 2Q/early 3Q. June or July is when you'll see them.

I do wonder what Nvidia is doing with any defective cards. Either they are getting 100% yields, or they are holding onto the chips to release later? Why not disable the pipes now, and release the 8600GT?



Actually pretty common practice for GPU makers to start with a high-end card for a bit then once a good surplus of "defective" cards amasses then disable a few pipes etc and release a new lower end card with a lower price. The reason may be that they are getting pretty good yields, therefore less defective cards and simply taking a bit of time to launch a lower priced line.

Lets assume they are getting good yields and they try to launch a lower line knowing they can't meet demand with the supply they have on hand. Might piss off a lot of people to be short for weeks on end for a while til things level out. Better to wait til they can launch it with a good supply assuming thats what is actually going on imo. But call it an educated guess based on what the industry has done in the past. :) 
January 4, 2007 6:32:03 PM

Considering how badly the 8800GTS performs compared to the 7950GX2, I really doubt they'll release a cut down G80 just yet, for mid range.

No one's going to spend 450 dollars on a chip that runs "almost as" good as a previous generation card.

And if that's the case, it's likely an "8600GT" would perform under the bar on DX9 games compared to the cheaper cards of mid-range from the DX9 generation.

You will likely see X1950 Pros that are only 175-185 hammering 8600GTs that cost nearly 220-225. And you'll see "comparable" benchmarks from cards under the 1950 Pro.

They need to work out the G80 core and figure out why it's running so hot, and how to make sure a cut-down version of the chip performs to its full power.
January 5, 2007 2:56:55 AM

Quote:
Party thread???
Glad I could be of service. :) 
January 5, 2007 3:02:31 AM

Could not these DX10 capable video cards also see another boost in performance when coupled with DX10 and Vista? Or have benchmarks already been run for that...?
January 5, 2007 6:57:51 PM

Where'd the party go? I was just YEAH YEAH YEAH DANCE EVERYBODY DANCE!!!! YEAH!!! YEAAAAAA!!!111!!!!111

OMG OMG OMG IM ON FIRE OMG YEAAAA!

Cmon, these threads are soo boring, spice it up!
-cm
January 5, 2007 8:14:13 PM

I was wondering why this thread was still going. I figured it was a hijack of some sort. Good job fellas...party on. :) 
January 5, 2007 8:43:20 PM

Quote:
The badass cards are great, but entry and mid-range wins the war. This year and next should be HUGE for ATI and nvidia. Beyond sales volume, even more importantly are their prices and product mix at given performance levels. These Vista/DX10 type deals don't come along that often, and it's times like this that major market share is gained and lost if they get it right or wrong. Plus with AMD's leadership starting to steer ATI, that adds to potential misteps. Should be very exciting.

Exactly, which is why I'm holding off on all my upgrades for now.
Holding off has other benefits. Over the past three weeks the bottom line on the memory I want has dropped by $150. Since I'm getting two pairs, that's $300 saved.

The graphics market seems lopsided to me right now, with an 8800GTS selling for the same as a 1950XTX. Definitely a market where consumers stand to benefit from some additional competition.

We'll also benefit when more HD/Blu-Ray stuff comes out. Egads, a "discounted" PX-900B will cost you well over $800 right now. No good comes from a single-vendor market for anything.

EDIT: There are a couple of B-R drives for as little as $600 from the likes of Samsung and Phillips. Oooh, a BARGAIN! 8O Now if someone could produce a SATA B-R/combo with LightScribe...

-Brad
January 7, 2007 12:26:19 AM

YEAH I LOVE RAM!!! YEAAAAAA!!!!

PARRRTTTTYYYYYY!!!!!!!
Omg.

-cm
January 7, 2007 1:26:26 AM

Quote:
I was wondering why this thread was still going. I figured it was a hijack of some sort. Good job fellas...party on. :) 


You are welcome... now where'd you put the keg?!