The origins of war

Tom_Smart wrote :

Wars are always the same. Somebody wins, somebody loses and nothing is ever the same again. That's a fact.

King wrote:

Wars are always the same. Somebody wins, somebody loses and nothing is ever the same again. And someone makes a ton of money. That's a fact.

That may be the result, but what is the cause?

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Dirty smelly hippies.

------------------------------ No more promise no more sorrow,
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Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef

how about people who insult others freely!

Reply to pike

I don't insult you freely. Every time I insult you, I make a small withdrawal from your bank account.

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Reply to KingLoftusXII

pike wrote :

That may be the result, but what is the cause?

Have you ever considered visiting your local public library? There's several sections where lots of intelligent and learned people discuss such things in written form. I'd suggest you start with;

Sociology
History
Psychology

That should keep you busy for a few lifetimes.

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Reply to llama_man

llama_man wrote :

Have you ever considered visiting your local public library? There's several sections where lots of intelligent and learned people discuss such things in written form. I'd suggest you start with;

Sociology
History
Psychology

That should keep you busy for a few lifetimes.

You won't find the answer there! It's much simpler than all that and much closer at hand.

Reply to pike

Ahah! So it IS all due to hippies!

Burn the hippies!

* Grabs pitchfork and flaming torch *

------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man

He'll only read stuff written by someone with a few missing teeth and a dot on the forehead wearing a robe of lower quality than a Walmart curtain.

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Reply to KingLoftusXII

Which explains why he's so out of touch with reality and thinks the world is made of moonbeams and rainbows.

------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man

It isn't?

*puts down pipe*

Well I'll be damned...

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Reply to KingLoftusXII

judging people by their appearance is a symptom of the root cause of war

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Reply to pike

KingLoftusXII wrote :

Well I'll be damned...

Unless there's no God. Which there isn't! Hooray! :bounce:

------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man

That was referring to discovering the world's made up of a**holes. Present company excluded of course. well, 2 of us anyways...

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Reply to KingLoftusXII

pike wrote :

judging people by their appearance is a symptom of the root cause of war

It's true. Looking at your avatar makes me want to commit acts of violence.

A similar effect is acheived by that tw*t with the glasses who can't sing on the Halifax adverts. Thank f*ck we won't be seeing him again. [/hooray for the credit crunch]

------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man

pike wrote :

judging people by their appearance is a symptom of the root cause of war

I can't see you, I can only read your thoughts via what you type.

*declares war*

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Reply to KingLoftusXII

whether you beleive in God or not, you and you alone remain responsible for your choices and your actions and hense the results they produce

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Reply to pike

We accept our responsibility to rid the world of hippies.

Reply to Vokofpolisiekar

I choose to take responsibility for the result of burning you and a mattress in unison.

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Reply to KingLoftusXII

Problem: hippie
Solution: the final one
Action: burning truck tyre around said hippie
Result: ironically, world peace.

Now all that's left is dumb fashion models and actors/actresses.

Reply to Vokofpolisiekar

I choose to take responsibility for providing the parrafin.

Reply to WingDing

KingLoftusXII wrote :

I can't see you, I can only read your thoughts via what you type.

*declares war*

And precisely what thoughts make you declare war?

Reply to pike

All of them.

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Reply to KingLoftusXII

pike wrote :

whether you beleive in God or not, you and you alone remain responsible for your choices and your actions and hense the results they produce

No, only when you reject the notion of a God do you truly accept sole responsibility for you actions.

How can one take full responsibility if you're only doing what you're told?

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------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man

War originated aeons before the dawn of man. An angel invaded another's space and the words "Hey! You! Get off of my cloud" were spoken.
The rest is history.*

*Most of which can be researched in libraries.
Edit for fcuk up, see below.
[sig]
Man City 2 Liverpool 3

[/sig]

Message quoted 1 times
Message edited by Tom_Smart on 10-06-2008 at 04:57:04 PM

Reply to Tom_Smart

Tom_Smart wrote :

War originated aeons before the dawn of man. An angle invaded anothers space and the words "Hey! You! Get off of my cloud" were spoken.
The rest is history.*

*Most of which can be researched in libraries.

Was it a cute angle, or am I being obtuse?

Sorry for the reflex reaction, but I had to put it right.

I'll get my set square.

------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man

That's OK, I initially spelt aeons without the 'a', made a few more today too, guess I'm just having a bad day.
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Man City 2Liverpool3

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Reply to Tom_Smart

llama_man wrote :

No, only when you reject the notion of a God do you truly accept sole responsibility for you actions.

How can one take full responsibility if you're only doing what you're told?

If you're refferring to traditionnal christianity like the catholic church, then in some respect you're right. Even if you go by some 10 commandments than it's also true but only to some extent because at another level you are responsible for choosing to follow these commandments. So at some point the person chooses and is responsible for relinquishing his freedom to some scripture but in the end it was his choice and he alone is responsible for that fundamental choice and he does remain free to turn away from that scripture by making yet again another choice.

Reply to pike

I choose to burn you in a dreadful mattress fire. Hop on, hippie.

Reply to WingDing

Gosh, this again? The orgin of war is, it it's purpose-- to make someone do something that he would otherwise not be inclined to do.

On the subject of God (Llama): there is nothing in one's existence that he must do. There are things that one should do, but nothing that he absolutely must do. Sometimes, there is a disconnect between what one should do and what one actually does.

------------------------------ Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.
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Reply to dwellman

I beleive the catholic church would differ on that and they have invented hell, purgatory, limbo, confession and more to back up the must part of it.

Reply to pike

[quotemsg=538276,29,6371]Gosh, this again? The orgin of war is, it it's purpose-- to make someone do something that he would otherwise not be inclined to do.
...
quotemsg]

Why "make someone do something that he would otherwise not be inclined to do." ?

Reply to pike

Because it is in your own interests. You're going to starve because your crops have failed, the other country has plenty of food but does not want to give you any. What would you do, Pike?

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Reply to audiovoodoo

He'd starve to death.

Hooray! :bounce:

------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man

Send in a force to orchestrate a regime change frr the good of their obviously pissed off people who are are friends and want our help. The downside to that is then I'd be forced to make a fcuking fortune from it in weapons and rebuilding costs. Yeah, war's a b!tch, can't figure out why anyone bothers.
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Man City 2 Liverpool 3

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Reply to Tom_Smart

1) Catholocism does not have a monopoly on God (thogh they do have a majority stake in the world Christian polpulation-- I do not personally know any Catholics)

2)

Quote :

War is not violence and killing, pure and simple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government's decisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him but to make him do what you want him to do. Not killing... but controlled and purposeful violence.

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Reply to dwellman

audiovoodoo wrote :

Because it is in your own interests. You're going to starve because your crops have failed, the other country has plenty of food but does not want to give you any. What would you do, Pike?

I'd be very humble and invite the leader(s) of that wealthy nation to visit. Why beleive the outcome would be negative!

Reply to pike

@Tom
[/Halliburton]

Message edited by audiovoodoo on 10-06-2008 at 07:14:07 PM

Reply to audiovoodoo

@Pike - which bit of 'but they don't want to give you any' did you not understand.

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Reply to audiovoodoo

He thinks that if you are just nice to people they will be nice to you, just because you are pleasant. Maybe.

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Reply to dwellman

dwellman wrote :

He thinks that if you are just nice to people they will be nice to you, just because you are a peasant. Maybe.

Subtle fix.

Reply to audiovoodoo

That too.

Reply to dwellman

dwellman wrote :

1) Catholocism does not have a monopoly on God (thogh they do have a majority stake in the world Christian polpulation-- I do not personally know any Catholics)

2)

Quote :

War is not violence and killing, pure and simple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government's decisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him but to make him do what you want him to do. Not killing... but controlled and purposeful violence.

My question is: "What makes him my ennemy" and also "Why make him do what i want him to do" ...why not just leave him be?

Reply to pike

Because if you don't you and your family will starve. So pike, you going to watch your kids starve to death or are you going to take somebody elses food by force? It's a very simple question.

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Reply to audiovoodoo

audiovoodoo wrote :

@Pike - which bit of 'but they don't want to give you any' did you not understand.

This is all hypothetical with no precise situation but i'd say you give up too easily.

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Reply to pike

dwellman wrote :

He thinks that if you are just nice to people they will be nice to you, just because you are pleasant. Maybe.

Just that which you said would go a long way.

Relationships between nations are just like relationships between people.

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Reply to pike

audiovoodoo wrote :

Because if you don't you and your family will starve. So pike, you going to watch your kids starve to death or are you going to take somebody elses food by force? It's a very simple question.

Let me tell you a true story.

In the 1700's John Franklin was exploring the far north of canada under the order of Her Majesty. During one of his expeditions he came across a group of eskimos that were in a very dire predicament as they had over shot the migration of caribou by a week or so and had not been capable of making food suplies for the oncomming winter. They had been surviving on a few fish and some fowl.

Franklin's group numbered 12 or so and the eskimos numbered over 40. Franklin admits in his journals that had they been willing the eskimos could have overpowered his group to take posession of his provisions of food but they did not. They humbly asked if Franklin could spare some of his food for them to hold off starvation a little while longer. That is what he did.

Eskimos evolved with a culture of sharing to those in need. For them it was the most sure way of ensuring the survival of their people.

I beleive, even though that way of life has just about vanished, that we could learn from them as a planetary race.

There is more and more talk of saving the environment on a global scale and this will inevitably include saving those nations that are in economic and environmental despair. War machines are not in this project for a global sustainable population.

Reply to pike

pike wrote :

This is all hypothetical with no precise situation but i'd say you give up too easily.

Pike, why do you keep avoiding the question? Lets expand this little world a little for you. You've asked them nicely lots of times. You have tried to trade with them. You asked the hypothetical UN to get involved and they also told you to get stuffed. You've asked them again, you got on your hands and knees and offered to suck their c0cks for food. Still they say no.

You try just running over the border and liberating some of the food but can't get past the big wall they built. You try knocking the wall down without any joy. You go back and ask them a few more times, this time you offer them your wife and daughters in payment so that you and your sons (this is hypothetical remember!) can survive and maybe resuce the girls later.. Man you have tried EVERY last peacfull approach.

Can I make it ANY clearer than that? You have exhausted all other options and they are the ONLY people on the world with food stocks. Nobody else is interested in helping you.

What do you do pike. Your options are:

A. Starve

B. Go to war with them / Use force to obtain what you need to survive.

You can give me ONE of the two above answers, A or B. Which is it?

Reply to audiovoodoo

pike wrote :

Relationships between nations are just like relationships between people.

That is so pathetic, I can't even think of a good comeback-- either realistic or sarcastic.

But I thought it should be highlighted as an example of wrong, and even dangerous, thinking.

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------------------------------ Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.
PRs:
-5K: 24:29
-10K: 53:50
Reply to dwellman

pike wrote :

Just that which you said would go a long way.

Relationships between nations are just like relationships between people.

Yes, someone has fcuking the other in mind.
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[/sig]

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Reply to Tom_Smart

This is your story with your storyline. Mine would not be like that. However, i can say that i would not choose B and whether or not i would die of starvation, that remains to be seen. Live in the moment and do not anticipate.

Reply to pike

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The origins of war

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