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Conspiracy to sabotage HDTV?

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Anonymous
April 11, 2004 4:38:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

It seems that either the local stations or the networks are doing a
conspiracy to sabotage HDTV. I sit down to watch a movie in HDTV, the latest
being "Men In Black", and halfway through they switch to a commercial break,
which goes to the 4:3, and when the endless commercial break is over they stay
in SD until the next group of endless commercials. Are they doing this just to
piss me off? If so, it's working!

FYI, the CBS and ABC affiliates are guilty of the same thing.

Hermango
Anonymous
April 11, 2004 9:36:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:38:06 -0500, Hermango wrote:

> It seems that either the local stations or the networks are doing a
> conspiracy to sabotage HDTV. I sit down to watch a movie in HDTV, the latest
> being "Men In Black", and halfway through they switch to a commercial break,
> which goes to the 4:3, and when the endless commercial break is over they stay
> in SD until the next group of endless commercials. Are they doing this just to
> piss me off? If so, it's working!
>
> FYI, the CBS and ABC affiliates are guilty of the same thing.
>
> Hermango

Actually, I think it's probably an issue of competence rather than
conspiracy.
Anonymous
April 11, 2004 10:44:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

halfway through they switch to a commercial break,
> which goes to the 4:3, and when the endless commercial break is over they stay
> in SD until the next group of endless commercials. Are they doing this just to
> piss me off? If so, it's working!
>
> FYI, the CBS and ABC affiliates are guilty of the same thing.
>
> Hermango

The same problem is happening here in El Paso, mostly with the
CBS station. I never know if a show will be in HDTV and if it is it
may only be a small segment. I don't know if they have an automated
system to switch back to SD for local commercials or it is the fault
of technicians who are not watching the monitors.
The only stations who seem to be consisant broadcast a separate
HDTV network feed but that does not allow them any local content. I
look forward to the day when the analog channels go off, maybe then
these technicians will watch what they are doing on the only channel
they are responsible for.
Anonymous
April 11, 2004 3:08:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

MIB in Chicago was all in HD except for the commercials, but I have
noticed this happen during other films on all the network stations.

It is interesting to note that the CBS, ABC, NBC and Fox stations in
this city are owned and operated by their respective networks. I
suspect that the problem is a switching error on the local or regional
level since the Network stations are simulcasting SD versions on their
analog channels. Of course, most if not all network owned and operated
stations moved to regional centers to handle the master control
operations of all their stations so mistakes may be more likely to
occur. I imagine that when simulcasting ends with the demise of analog
broadcasting, the SD/HD mistakes will disappear.

One must remember that broadcasters fought the move from analog to
digital tooth and nail. They showed no interest in HD at all. We are
lucky that the networks changed their minds about HD, which is
voluntary, and decided it was a good way to compete with cable.

We must also remember that those of us who can receive HDTV are
pioneers. Europe moved to DTV broadcasting a decade ago but not HD.
Our patience is being rewarded with HDTV which is a superior system
and its acceptance is growing faster than predicted.

Cable systems stated they would never deliver HD signals and yet they
are. Broadcasters said they didn't want it and yet they are using it.
So be patient.

Those of us who saw the wretched quality of the FOX wide screen 480p
broadcasts of last year's World Series (close to the European DTV
standard) know the wait is worthwhile.

Garth

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:38:06 -0500, Hermango
<hermango.kill_spam.@hotmail.com> wrote:

> It seems that either the local stations or the networks are doing a
>conspiracy to sabotage HDTV. I sit down to watch a movie in HDTV, the latest
>being "Men In Black", and halfway through they switch to a commercial break,
>which goes to the 4:3, and when the endless commercial break is over they stay
>in SD until the next group of endless commercials. Are they doing this just to
>piss me off? If so, it's working!
>
> FYI, the CBS and ABC affiliates are guilty of the same thing.
>
>Hermango
Anonymous
April 11, 2004 4:50:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"C. N. Bootee" <looking@naked.women> wrote in message
news:p an.2004.04.11.09.35.59.280150@naked.women...
> On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:38:06 -0500, Hermango wrote:
>
> > It seems that either the local stations or the networks are doing a
> > conspiracy to sabotage HDTV. I sit down to watch a movie in HDTV, the
latest
> > being "Men In Black", and halfway through they switch to a commercial
break,
> > which goes to the 4:3, and when the endless commercial break is over
they stay
> > in SD until the next group of endless commercials. Are they doing this
just to
> > piss me off? If so, it's working!
> >
> > FYI, the CBS and ABC affiliates are guilty of the same thing.
> >
> > Hermango
>
> Actually, I think it's probably an issue of competence rather than
> conspiracy.

let's give the broadcast engineers a break here, most staffs are fighting to
essentially keep 2 stations (or more if multicast) going with the same staff
and at the same time rebuilding their entire studio/engineering technology
to allow the local content, such as news and ads, to go HD. Not to mention
that much of the technology is new and subject to bugs and even failures.

Given the legendary tight wallets of most broadcasters, this is an
incredibly difficult task.

When I was in college, I used to work part-time in engineering/technical
production at a public TV station, these guys are much closer to falling off
the edge than you think - even in the best of times.
Anonymous
April 11, 2004 6:03:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Hermango wrote:

> It seems that either the local stations or the networks are doing a
> conspiracy to sabotage HDTV. I sit down to watch a movie in HDTV, the latest
> being "Men In Black", and halfway through they switch to a commercial break,
> which goes to the 4:3, and when the endless commercial break is over they stay
> in SD until the next group of endless commercials. Are they doing this just to
> piss me off? If so, it's working!
>
> FYI, the CBS and ABC affiliates are guilty of the same thing.
>

There is no conspiracy that can be as successful as lack of interest.
Call the advertizers and complain. That will probably be more successful
than complaining to the station engineers.

Matthew
April 11, 2004 6:27:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Hermango" <hermango.kill_spam.@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:09mh70906e4mc6v763ocjtlf977jqr1kqr@4ax.com...
> It seems that either the local stations or the networks are doing a
> conspiracy to sabotage HDTV. I sit down to watch a movie in HDTV, the
latest
> being "Men In Black", and halfway through they switch to a commercial
break,
> which goes to the 4:3, and when the endless commercial break is over they
stay
> in SD until the next group of endless commercials. Are they doing this
just to
> piss me off? If so, it's working!
>
> FYI, the CBS and ABC affiliates are guilty of the same thing.
>
> Hermango

The usual quote is, "Never suspect conspiracy if incompetence could achieve
the same result".

Pat
Anonymous
April 12, 2004 12:13:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Randy Sweeney" <rsweeney1@comcast.net> wrotd:

>
>"C. N. Bootee" <looking@naked.women> wrote in message
>news:p an.2004.04.11.09.35.59.280150@naked.women...
>> On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:38:06 -0500, Hermango wrote:
>>
>> > It seems that either the local stations or the networks are doing a
>> > conspiracy to sabotage HDTV. I sit down to watch a movie in HDTV, the
>latest
>> > being "Men In Black", and halfway through they switch to a commercial
>break,
>> > which goes to the 4:3, and when the endless commercial break is over
>they stay
>> > in SD until the next group of endless commercials. Are they doing this
>just to
>> > piss me off? If so, it's working!
>> >
>> > FYI, the CBS and ABC affiliates are guilty of the same thing.
>> >
>> > Hermango
>>
>> Actually, I think it's probably an issue of competence rather than
>> conspiracy.
>
>let's give the broadcast engineers a break here, most staffs are fighting to
>essentially keep 2 stations (or more if multicast) going with the same staff
>and at the same time rebuilding their entire studio/engineering technology
>to allow the local content, such as news and ads, to go HD. Not to mention
>that much of the technology is new and subject to bugs and even failures.
>
>Given the legendary tight wallets of most broadcasters, this is an
>incredibly difficult task.
>

I guess it's a matter of having your job under control. If you've got a
procedure that you follow on station breaks then you don't end up with the
problem. And the procedure should be to verify that the HD feed got going again
after each station break.

Back in the late 1960's I worked at a local TV station installing ASL of
stuff and I saw their control system in action. They used a programmable
computer(?) that was made from reed relays! You could set up a sequence of
rolls from tape machines and movie/slide/audio combo projecters that would go
through the series of commercials and back to the program automatically. All
you did was watch the feed and hit the "Go!" button at the appropriate moment.
Now if they could do that in the 1960's then it's for damn sure they could now
wire up the stuff so that it goes back to the correct feed after all the
commercials are over.

Hermango
Anonymous
April 12, 2004 1:29:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Same thing happend here on the local Houston affiliate. So it must
have been a network wide issue.

-Jeremy

Hermango <hermango.kill_spam.@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<09mh70906e4mc6v763ocjtlf977jqr1kqr@4ax.com>...
> It seems that either the local stations or the networks are doing a
> conspiracy to sabotage HDTV. I sit down to watch a movie in HDTV, the latest
> being "Men In Black", and halfway through they switch to a commercial break,
> which goes to the 4:3, and when the endless commercial break is over they stay
> in SD until the next group of endless commercials. Are they doing this just to
> piss me off? If so, it's working!
>
> FYI, the CBS and ABC affiliates are guilty of the same thing.
>
> Hermango
Anonymous
April 12, 2004 3:36:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, 21C BBS wrote:
> I'd hope eventually
> they'd just run the one HD station while simulating it on analog in
> letterbox.

It is more likely that analog in its dying days will end up as a 4:3 crop
in the center of 16:9 programming, just like poorly done video versions of
movies.

I fear that P&S for television is a futile hope. People who use DTV STBs
on a 4:3 monitor have a choice between center cropping and letterbox.
Consequently, I doubt that end-life analog broadcasts will go to the
expense of P&S.

As for letterboxing... I've seen entirely too many cases where 4:3
programming is letterboxed and simulcast in DTV in that form. No thanks.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Anonymous
April 12, 2004 4:25:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Greywolf" <greywolfin45@*spamisbad*sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3Bcec.53119$6_5.37901@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> The usual quote is, "Never suspect conspiracy if incompetence could
achieve
> the same result".

Could I suspect incompetence of HDTV designers? It is common sense to expect
snags like that when you introduce new format with backward incompatible AR.
Anonymous
April 12, 2004 7:49:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I didn't watch MIB, so I cannot comment on what happened during
broadcasting in our area.

However, when I watch the Jay Leno show everynight on KPIX (CBS) in
San Francisco via cable, they only show the national commercials then
followed by a few minutes of music with a static picture from the
show. i.e. KPIX didn't bother to switch to SD for local commericials.
I don't watch OTA so it may also be the cable company ripping off
KPIX.



Hermango <hermango.kill_spam.@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<09mh70906e4mc6v763ocjtlf977jqr1kqr@4ax.com>...
> It seems that either the local stations or the networks are doing a
> conspiracy to sabotage HDTV. I sit down to watch a movie in HDTV, the latest
> being "Men In Black", and halfway through they switch to a commercial break,
> which goes to the 4:3, and when the endless commercial break is over they stay
> in SD until the next group of endless commercials. Are they doing this just to
> piss me off? If so, it's working!
>
> FYI, the CBS and ABC affiliates are guilty of the same thing.
>
> Hermango
Anonymous
April 12, 2004 8:02:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Within these hallowed halls, Randy Sweeney of <rsweeney1@comcast.net>
added the following to the collective conscience:
> "C. N. Bootee" <looking@naked.women> wrote in message
> news:p an.2004.04.11.09.35.59.280150@naked.women...
>> On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:38:06 -0500, Hermango wrote:
>>
>>> It seems that either the local stations or the networks are doing a
>>> conspiracy to sabotage HDTV. I sit down to watch a movie in HDTV,
>>> the latest being "Men In Black", and halfway through they switch to
>>> a commercial break, which goes to the 4:3, and when the endless
>>> commercial break is over they stay in SD until the next group of
>>> endless commercials. Are they doing this just to piss me off? If
>>> so, it's working!
>>>
>>> FYI, the CBS and ABC affiliates are guilty of the same thing.
>>>
>>> Hermango
>>
>> Actually, I think it's probably an issue of competence rather than
>> conspiracy.
>
> let's give the broadcast engineers a break here, most staffs are
> fighting to essentially keep 2 stations (or more if multicast) going
> with the same staff and at the same time rebuilding their entire
> studio/engineering technology to allow the local content, such as
> news and ads, to go HD. Not to mention that much of the technology is
> new and subject to bugs and even failures.
>
Good points as I used to run two radio stations at once (not simulcast) and
found it quite a task (especially for $5.50 an hour). I'd hope eventually
they'd just run the one HD station while simulating it on analog in
letterbox. Multicast would run the primary station on analog.

I'd hope the public would accept letterbox 16:9 by then, but 14:9 with
slight cropping shouldn't be a bad compromise.

Analog simulcast should be done at least after the 2006 deadline.

TGF spell check ;-)
Anonymous
April 12, 2004 8:23:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, Michael J. Sherman wrote:
> Mikito Harakiri wrote:
>> Could I suspect incompetence of HDTV designers? It is common sense to
>> expect snags like that when you introduce new format with backward
>> incompatible AR.
> Keep your aspect ratio rant on that other trolling thread, please.

I doubt very much that "Mikito Harakiri" is this fellow's real name.
Although Mikito is a Japanese man's given name, Harakiri as a surname is
somewhat unlikely. Harakiri ("belly cutting") is a Japanese slang term
(often mispronounced by Americans as "harry-carry") for "seppuku"; ritual
suicide by stabbing oneself in the left abdomen, cutting across to the
right, cutting upwards, and then waiting for your assistant (the
"kaishakunin") to cut off your head.

I've long ago decided that people who are unwilling to post under their
own names are rarely worth listening to.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Anonymous
April 12, 2004 9:09:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Mikito Harakiri wrote:

> "Greywolf" <greywolfin45@*spamisbad*sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:3Bcec.53119$6_5.37901@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
>
>>The usual quote is, "Never suspect conspiracy if incompetence could
>
> achieve
>
>>the same result".
>
>
> Could I suspect incompetence of HDTV designers? It is common sense to expect
> snags like that when you introduce new format with backward incompatible AR.
>
>

Keep your aspect ratio rant on that other trolling thread, please.
Anonymous
April 12, 2004 9:17:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mark Crispin" <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote in message
news:p ine.WNT.4.60.0404121616040.2912@Shimo-Tomobiki.Panda.COM...
> I've long ago decided that people who are unwilling to post under their
> own names are rarely worth listening to.

Exceptions are rare but brilliant. Nikola Bourbaki, Mark Twain.
Anonymous
April 13, 2004 6:05:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Caloonese wrote:
> I didn't watch MIB, so I cannot comment on what happened during
> broadcasting in our area.
>
> However, when I watch the Jay Leno show everynight on KPIX (CBS) in
> San Francisco via cable, they only show the national commercials then
> followed by a few minutes of music with a static picture from the
> show. i.e. KPIX didn't bother to switch to SD for local commericials.
> I don't watch OTA so it may also be the cable company ripping off
> KPIX.
>
>
>
> Hermango <hermango.kill_spam.@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<09mh70906e4mc6v763ocjtlf977jqr1kqr@4ax.com>...
>
>>It seems that either the local stations or the networks are doing a
>>conspiracy to sabotage HDTV. I sit down to watch a movie in HDTV, the latest
>>being "Men In Black", and halfway through they switch to a commercial break,
>>which goes to the 4:3, and when the endless commercial break is over they stay
>>in SD until the next group of endless commercials. Are they doing this just to
>>piss me off? If so, it's working!
>>
>> FYI, the CBS and ABC affiliates are guilty of the same thing.
>>
>>Hermango
I watch KPIX OTA as well as the other SF Bay area DTV channels from
Sutro. The local commercials go to screensaver mode OTA also. I have
heard that the stations lack switching to patch in the locals. If I
remember correctly a studion engineer came on a thread and explained
this fact about a year ago.

regards

Jerry
Anonymous
April 13, 2004 1:28:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Randy Sweeney" <rsweeney1@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:L4WdnfNLy-Pz6uTdRVn-uw@comcast.com...
::
: let's give the broadcast engineers a break here, most staffs are
fighting to
: essentially keep 2 stations (or more if multicast) going with the same
staff
: and at the same time rebuilding their entire studio/engineering
technology
: to allow the local content, such as news and ads, to go HD. Not to
mention
: that much of the technology is new and subject to bugs and even
failures.
:
: Given the legendary tight wallets of most broadcasters, this is an
: incredibly difficult task.
:
======================
Then the real solution is to STOP doing both and just downconvert the
digital/HD and send THAT signal OTA on the analog station.
Then they can pay attention to the HD/DTV signal.
Anonymous
April 15, 2004 1:13:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Richard C." <post-age @spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:407c132d$0$71689$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com...
>
> "Randy Sweeney" <rsweeney1@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:L4WdnfNLy-Pz6uTdRVn-uw@comcast.com...
> ::
> : let's give the broadcast engineers a break here, most staffs are
> fighting to
> : essentially keep 2 stations (or more if multicast) going with the same
> staff
> : and at the same time rebuilding their entire studio/engineering
> technology
> : to allow the local content, such as news and ads, to go HD. Not to
> mention
> : that much of the technology is new and subject to bugs and even
> failures.
> :
> : Given the legendary tight wallets of most broadcasters, this is an
> : incredibly difficult task.
> :
> ======================
> Then the real solution is to STOP doing both and just downconvert the
> digital/HD and send THAT signal OTA on the analog station.
> Then they can pay attention to the HD/DTV signal.

Perhaps the solution is for the skinflints who own the stations to add some
staff.
!