If this is going to be offered in Europe I'm going to look into it.
I'm even more interested in going fully electrical, if this is possible under a 20k€ limit, and if I can cover 200-250km (125-150 miles) with one battery charge.
If this is going to be offered in Europe I'm going to look into it.
I'm even more interested in going fully electrical, if this is possible under a 20k€ limit, and if I can cover 200-250km (125-150 miles) with one battery charge.
when you do, dont change the oil with the keys in your pocket or else you in for a big surprise buddy...
LPG is popular but the main issue with it is still significant CO2 exhaust.
This is the thing that amuses me about the whole electric movement, you still have to get the electricity from somewhere. Whilst I'll accept that it does open up the use of renewable sources most of us still get our electricity from coal or gas fired power stations, factor in the ineficiency of transmission and the nasty chemicals used in the local batteries and you negate any benefits, you just ship the problem up stream.
------------------------------No more promise no more sorrow,
No longer will I follow.
Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef
I actually quit watching SportsCenter and shyt for about 2 months. Watched very little of the other series too...
I haven't gotten around to changing the sig yet, but I will. It's pure laziness...
Message edited by JustPlainJef on 12-04-2008 at 04:01:50 AM
------------------------------No more promise no more sorrow,
No longer will I follow.
Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef
And how the hell are you, you stinking, maggot-infested turd???
------------------------------No more promise no more sorrow,
No longer will I follow.
Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef
This is the thing that amuses me about the whole electric movement, you still have to get the electricity from somewhere. Whilst I'll accept that it does open up the use of renewable sources most of us still get our electricity from coal or gas fired power stations, factor in the ineficiency of transmission and the nasty chemicals used in the local batteries and you negate any benefits, you just ship the problem up stream.
I tried finding some hard numbers on this. . . but there are way too many variables to consider when comparing a gas engine to a hybrid engine to a purely eletrical engine as far as TCO. Bottom line is, you buy a car like this only if you want one, there's no real environmental impact one way or the other.
This is the thing that amuses me about the whole electric movement, you still have to get the electricity from somewhere. Whilst I'll accept that it does open up the use of renewable sources most of us still get our electricity from coal or gas fired power stations, factor in the ineficiency of transmission and the nasty chemicals used in the local batteries and you negate any benefits, you just ship the problem up stream.
Do not mistake me for a environmental hippy. I look for the cheapest way of transporting myself with reasonable comfort and without being less environment friendly than my neighbors. Simple fact is that you can charge your electrical car for a few euro's/dollars and then have a proper mileage. Obviously the initial investment is higher but if you travel a 100 miles each (working) day I'm pretty much convinced that the electrical car is significantly cheaper in total cost of ownership, especially if the local government subsidizes such cars out of environmental idealism *smirk* [/and why should I not profit from that?]
The environmental advantage is that the car is as clean and efficient as the power supplied by the power plant. If we are able to convert more of our fossil fuel plants to wind or solar energy then the electrical car instantaneously becomes a much cleaner alternative. If I go to France, my car will be as clean as the nuclear energy that they put on their grid. But again, all of this is secondary to my purpose: cheap but comfortable individual transportation.
The electrical engine is pretty efficient in converting electricity into mechanical energy, and if the electrical storage solutions (batteries) continue to improve as they are doing today, electrical cars will also become significantly lighter than conventional cars resulting in even better motion efficiency. Obviously it would be nice if a car crash site does not turn into a environmental disaster area on the spot. From an environmental point of view there's all kinds of things to consider, from a cost point of view I think electrical cars are already superior. The question is whether they are comfortable enough to drive in (speed, comfort) in and convenient enough to charge up (frequency).
You mentioned the emissions which is why my posted headed in the direction it did. I take your points, if cars were electric then they can automatically take advantage of cleaner electrical generation as soon as it come on grid. There are also the advantages (cost & environmental) of not having to support a distribution network to get the fuel to end users.
The bottom line is that we have to many cars trying to drive in a very limited number of places. Here in Manchester we are currently holding the vote on introducing a two zone (rings around the city) congestion charge. I have very mixed feelings on this one as whilst it will doubtless reduce the number of cars in the city the zoning is a joke. I live about 75m from the edge of the inner zone, my brother about a mile inside. He could drive into town for free but I would have to pay £3. The new job is about 100m outside the outer zone. The environmental loby tell me there is no option, common sense tells me it will introduce zones where people will not want to live or locate businesses.
I'm pretty much convinced that the electrical car is significantly cheaper in total cost of ownership, especially if the local government subsidizes such cars out of environmental idealism *smirk* [/and why should I not profit from that?]
If I remember correctly, in reading about possible hybrid plug-in's which could drive for 50-100 miles before the engine needed to kick in, running on electricity only equaled roughly 45 cents a gallon.
I'd rather electricity for my car come from a coal-fired plant than sending billions to the middle east. If we switched to electric cars tomorrow, they'd be bankrupt by April.
For the record (and before Riser arrives foaming at the mouth with Europhobic rage), I wasn't just referring to the US. A few of our former PMs have graced Carlyle group, and a former Chancellor is on the board of a tobacco company that targets advertising at African children. Classy.
For the record (and before Riser arrives foaming at the mouth with Europhobic rage), I wasn't just referring to the US. A few of our former PMs have graced Carlyle group, and a former Chancellor is on the board of a tobacco company that targets advertising at African children. Classy.
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