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If this is going to be offered in Europe I'm going to look into it.

I'm even more interested in going fully electrical, if this is possible under a 20k€ limit, and if I can cover 200-250km (125-150 miles) with one battery charge.

Message quoted 1 times
Message edited by BigMac on 12-03-2008 at 01:41:46 PM
Reply to BigMac

I thought LPG was popular in Holland? Strikes me as a far easier way to go as a retro-fit option.

------------------------------ No I'm not on feckin Facebook
Reply to audiovoodoo
- 0 +

LPG is popular but the main issue with it is still significant CO2 exhaust.

Reply to BigMac

Hose connected to exhaust + other end through slightly open window = 2 problems solved.



Glad to be of service.

------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man
- 0 +

BigMac wrote :

If this is going to be offered in Europe I'm going to look into it.

I'm even more interested in going fully electrical, if this is possible under a 20k€ limit, and if I can cover 200-250km (125-150 miles) with one battery charge.




when you do, dont change the oil with the keys in your pocket or else you in for a big surprise buddy...


Reply to mrface

llama_man wrote :

Hose connected to exhaust + other end through slightly open window = 2 problems solved.



Glad to be of service.



Better make that a mini van then... Just so we solve all problems at once in one sitting.

Reply to Vokofpolisiekar
- 0 +

llama_man wrote :


Glad to be of service.



That's what you always say to the wingding, isn't it?

Reply to BigMac

And quite a shoddy service it is too.

Reply to WingDing

BigMac wrote :

LPG is popular but the main issue with it is still significant CO2 exhaust.



This is the thing that amuses me about the whole electric movement, you still have to get the electricity from somewhere. Whilst I'll accept that it does open up the use of renewable sources most of us still get our electricity from coal or gas fired power stations, factor in the ineficiency of transmission and the nasty chemicals used in the local batteries and you negate any benefits, you just ship the problem up stream.

Reply to audiovoodoo

Which kills the water supply. [/I'll get my coat]

------------------------------ No more promise no more sorrow,
No longer will I follow.
Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef

A division champs banner, Jeff? Really?! LMAO

You get the T-shirt, cap, poster, and Limited Edition (!!) DVD set, too?

Reply to Auburn9698

Nope.

I actually quit watching SportsCenter and shyt for about 2 months. Watched very little of the other series too...

I haven't gotten around to changing the sig yet, but I will. It's pure laziness...


Message edited by JustPlainJef on 12-04-2008 at 04:01:50 AM
------------------------------ No more promise no more sorrow,
No longer will I follow.
Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef

And how the hell are you, you stinking, maggot-infested turd???

------------------------------ No more promise no more sorrow,
No longer will I follow.
Can anybody hear me?
I just want to be me.
Reply to JustPlainJef

I'm stinking and maggot-inf.....err, I'm uhh, great!

Reply to Auburn9698

Good to see you, I might even resurrect an old sig of mine in your honour. Now where is that pissing gif?
http://www.rammerjammer.com/images/piss.gifhttp://www.rammerjammer.com/images/au.gif

There you go, welcome back.

Reply to Tom_Smart

audiovoodoo wrote :

This is the thing that amuses me about the whole electric movement, you still have to get the electricity from somewhere. Whilst I'll accept that it does open up the use of renewable sources most of us still get our electricity from coal or gas fired power stations, factor in the ineficiency of transmission and the nasty chemicals used in the local batteries and you negate any benefits, you just ship the problem up stream.

I tried finding some hard numbers on this. . . but there are way too many variables to consider when comparing a gas engine to a hybrid engine to a purely eletrical engine as far as TCO. Bottom line is, you buy a car like this only if you want one, there's no real environmental impact one way or the other.

Reply to dwellman
- 0 +

audiovoodoo wrote :

This is the thing that amuses me about the whole electric movement, you still have to get the electricity from somewhere. Whilst I'll accept that it does open up the use of renewable sources most of us still get our electricity from coal or gas fired power stations, factor in the ineficiency of transmission and the nasty chemicals used in the local batteries and you negate any benefits, you just ship the problem up stream.



Do not mistake me for a environmental hippy. I look for the cheapest way of transporting myself with reasonable comfort and without being less environment friendly than my neighbors. Simple fact is that you can charge your electrical car for a few euro's/dollars and then have a proper mileage. Obviously the initial investment is higher but if you travel a 100 miles each (working) day I'm pretty much convinced that the electrical car is significantly cheaper in total cost of ownership, especially if the local government subsidizes such cars out of environmental idealism *smirk* [/and why should I not profit from that?]

The environmental advantage is that the car is as clean and efficient as the power supplied by the power plant. If we are able to convert more of our fossil fuel plants to wind or solar energy then the electrical car instantaneously becomes a much cleaner alternative. If I go to France, my car will be as clean as the nuclear energy that they put on their grid. But again, all of this is secondary to my purpose: cheap but comfortable individual transportation.

The electrical engine is pretty efficient in converting electricity into mechanical energy, and if the electrical storage solutions (batteries) continue to improve as they are doing today, electrical cars will also become significantly lighter than conventional cars resulting in even better motion efficiency. Obviously it would be nice if a car crash site does not turn into a environmental disaster area on the spot. From an environmental point of view there's all kinds of things to consider, from a cost point of view I think electrical cars are already superior. The question is whether they are comfortable enough to drive in (speed, comfort) in and convenient enough to charge up (frequency).

Message quoted 1 times
Message edited by BigMac on 12-04-2008 at 10:14:53 AM
Reply to BigMac

WingDing wrote :

And quite a shoddy service it is too.


Like you'd know any better :sarcastic:

Reply to llama_man

The service was better when your ringpiece was nice and tight. Now, for some reason, it's loose and torn.

Reply to WingDing

@Mac

You mentioned the emissions which is why my posted headed in the direction it did. I take your points, if cars were electric then they can automatically take advantage of cleaner electrical generation as soon as it come on grid. There are also the advantages (cost & environmental) of not having to support a distribution network to get the fuel to end users.

The bottom line is that we have to many cars trying to drive in a very limited number of places. Here in Manchester we are currently holding the vote on introducing a two zone (rings around the city) congestion charge. I have very mixed feelings on this one as whilst it will doubtless reduce the number of cars in the city the zoning is a joke. I live about 75m from the edge of the inner zone, my brother about a mile inside. He could drive into town for free but I would have to pay £3. The new job is about 100m outside the outer zone. The environmental loby tell me there is no option, common sense tells me it will introduce zones where people will not want to live or locate businesses.

Fcuk it, I'll stick with my bus pass and bike...

------------------------------ No I'm not on feckin Facebook
Reply to audiovoodoo

BigMac wrote :

I'm pretty much convinced that the electrical car is significantly cheaper in total cost of ownership, especially if the local government subsidizes such cars out of environmental idealism *smirk* [/and why should I not profit from that?]



If I remember correctly, in reading about possible hybrid plug-in's which could drive for 50-100 miles before the engine needed to kick in, running on electricity only equaled roughly 45 cents a gallon.

I'd rather electricity for my car come from a coal-fired plant than sending billions to the middle east. If we switched to electric cars tomorrow, they'd be bankrupt by April.

Reply to KingLoftusXII

As would the US weapons industry...

------------------------------ No I'm not on feckin Facebook
Reply to audiovoodoo

Think of all those poor former leaders (and their advisors) on the board of the Carlyle group! How would they cope without their huge Directors' fees?

------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man

For Carlyle, also feel free to substitute "Halliburton" et al.

------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man

Whoa...are you insinuating the American government isn't "for the people, by the people?"

------------------------------ +35 Wingding approval points +10 Scouse approval +22 Mammary Manipulation
+5 Comedy +15 Belated Holy Points +5 Messianic Approval + 5 penile innovation
+13 Baked Ham creativity +65 Obscure Quote

Reply to KingLoftusXII

Insert the word "rich" twice, and you're about right.

------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man

For the record (and before Riser arrives foaming at the mouth with Europhobic rage), I wasn't just referring to the US. A few of our former PMs have graced Carlyle group, and a former Chancellor is on the board of a tobacco company that targets advertising at African children. Classy.

------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man

Europhobic rage. From an American it's kinda' like a teenager that hates his parents doesn't think they know anything...

------------------------------ +35 Wingding approval points +10 Scouse approval +22 Mammary Manipulation
+5 Comedy +15 Belated Holy Points +5 Messianic Approval + 5 penile innovation
+13 Baked Ham creativity +65 Obscure Quote

Reply to KingLoftusXII

Yup, with most issues America faces we've "been there, done that". We mucked it up first time too.

By the way, enjoy President Blair, er, Obama. I'm sure there'll be lots of "CHANGE!" over the next term. *snigger*

------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man

Skin color counts as change, right?

------------------------------ +35 Wingding approval points +10 Scouse approval +22 Mammary Manipulation
+5 Comedy +15 Belated Holy Points +5 Messianic Approval + 5 penile innovation
+13 Baked Ham creativity +65 Obscure Quote

Reply to KingLoftusXII

Only if the whole point of the civil rights movement has been lost.

------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man

You have to find it before it's lost.

------------------------------ +35 Wingding approval points +10 Scouse approval +22 Mammary Manipulation
+5 Comedy +15 Belated Holy Points +5 Messianic Approval + 5 penile innovation
+13 Baked Ham creativity +65 Obscure Quote

Reply to KingLoftusXII

Cynics.

------------------------------ I'm a git, deal with it.

Antec 1200,PC Power & Cooling 750,Gigabyte DS4-x48,Intel Q9550@3.4 W/Xigmatek S1283,8GB OCZ DDR2 800,ATI 4870X2,X-FI>CA 640C amp>Tannoy R300/Senn 595's
Reply to strangestranger

Can you find anything in human history to show otherwise?

------------------------------ +35 Wingding approval points +10 Scouse approval +22 Mammary Manipulation
+5 Comedy +15 Belated Holy Points +5 Messianic Approval + 5 penile innovation
+13 Baked Ham creativity +65 Obscure Quote

Reply to KingLoftusXII

Just wait till i check the bible, it has something about some guy called jesus, he was good wasn't he?

------------------------------ I'm a git, deal with it.

Antec 1200,PC Power & Cooling 750,Gigabyte DS4-x48,Intel Q9550@3.4 W/Xigmatek S1283,8GB OCZ DDR2 800,ATI 4870X2,X-FI>CA 640C amp>Tannoy R300/Senn 595's
Reply to strangestranger

I stand corrected. Nothing but peace and love since he came about. Sorry.

------------------------------ +35 Wingding approval points +10 Scouse approval +22 Mammary Manipulation
+5 Comedy +15 Belated Holy Points +5 Messianic Approval + 5 penile innovation
+13 Baked Ham creativity +65 Obscure Quote

Reply to KingLoftusXII

Love and peace... or else.

------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man

llama_man wrote :

For the record (and before Riser arrives foaming at the mouth with Europhobic rage), I wasn't just referring to the US. A few of our former PMs have graced Carlyle group, and a former Chancellor is on the board of a tobacco company that targets advertising at African children. Classy.


Eurotophobic, more like.

Reply to Tom_Smart

I refuse to get involved.

Reply to dwellman

If an electric car can take advantage of cleaner electricity, does that mean it's owner is morally responsible if a nuclear plant does a Chernobyl?

Reply to Tom_Smart

No, but his is responsible for creating the need for more power stations to be built.

------------------------------ No I'm not on feckin Facebook
Reply to audiovoodoo

What if you charge your car with an extension cord plugged into the neighbors house?

------------------------------ +35 Wingding approval points +10 Scouse approval +22 Mammary Manipulation
+5 Comedy +15 Belated Holy Points +5 Messianic Approval + 5 penile innovation
+13 Baked Ham creativity +65 Obscure Quote

Reply to KingLoftusXII

Howdy, Tom. How'd you get it so nice and warm? I can taste the bubbles.

Actually, I can't.

Reply to Auburn9698

A septic with no taste, hardly global news is it?

Glad you're ok and I hope you and yours are all doing well.

Reply to Tom_Smart

As for electric, I am too lazy to post links, but here is a link to the thread I am reading.

The Tesla and Lightning are AWESOME, if you have $300K that is....

And BMW is going with the Cooper Mini-E. Finally, getting an electric car that does not look like a science project ("Smart" car be daamned.)


Mini and Lightning:
http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/ [...] 186&page=7

Tesla:
http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/ [...] 186&page=5

------------------------------ Mmmmmmmm...Beer.......
Reply to Ninjahedge
------------------------------ No I'm not on feckin Facebook
Reply to audiovoodoo

You know when you've been Websensed. :(

------------------------------ +46.53 Pedantry/+75 Wingding Approval/+27 Vindictive bastard/+7 innovative violence/+11 Scouse trophies/Bastages WD:9 RC:4 AV:1 [specials; cluster:2,leather elbow patched:1,pre-approved:3,first class (upgrade):1,multi-thread:1,double-barrel:1]
Reply to llama_man

It's just a Vid of a tesla getting smoked by a Tango (kind of like a smart car) on a standing quarter.

------------------------------ No I'm not on feckin Facebook
Reply to audiovoodoo
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