R600 Vs GTX XXX editions

[mrbuzz]

Hi Guys

What are peoples thoughts on the R600 vs. the over clocked 8800's that are coming out? Do you think they have a shot against the R600's? I was under the impression that Nvidia were not going to let the 8800's be over clocked. My XFX 8800 GTX XXX edition is on the way and I'm sure I will be happy with it I was just wondering how people think it would stack up against the R600. Anybody know why Nvidia allowed the over clocking?

 

[The_Abyss]

If you're worried about the R600 it's a silly time to buy an 8800. Wait for the benchmarks.

 

[mrbuzz]

God no I'm not worried. I know the 8800 GTX is a fantastic card, I just wondered what peoples impressions were. It will work fine for what I want to do for the next few years.

 

[Heyyou27]

I wouldn't worry about it; the R600 shouldn't be too much faster than the normal 8800GTX, let alone the overclocked versions.

 

[SuperFly03]

nVidia always allows overclocking, indirectly. nVidia designs the card then has their partners manufacture the actual cards. They provide base line specs, but the manufacturing company doesn't have to abide by them. The only difference between a OC'd card and a regular card is usually a bios tweak (which can be done by the end user but its risky). The alternative is to download the coolbits registry entry found on the web and use the OC utility built into the official forceware drivers (which has been around for several years I think).

BFG, EVGA, XFX all take the reference specs, up the heat dissipation (if appropriate) and then OC it and sell the card for more money. In fact, it is a brilliant strategic plan. Nvidia designs the cards, they tweak the cooling then charge the customer a premium.

As for the R600, I really can't speak to the subject. IMO, it will be faster than a 8800GTX, but I suspect it will be a 5-7% margin. Just enough to give it the crown.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Considering no one knows jack, even people looking at the earlier silicon version right now at CES, talking about it is like talking about what will end life on earth. Entertaining to talk about, but no one knows, we only know that something will happen eventually (at the latest when the Sun envelopes the earth).

 

[mrbuzz]

Hi SuperFly

Thanks for the reply its greatly appreciated. I did not think the R600 would be a HUGE leap over the 8800 but I guess time will tell. I setup a system for my brother just before Christmas and got him an MSI 8800 GTX and he is pissed now that the xXx editions have come out. I explained to him however that there would not really be that much of a difference between that and what he has now. It did not help that I told him 2 seconds later that I had an XFX xXx on order.

 

[mrbuzz]

Hi GreatApe

Yes you are right it is fun to talk about. Every few years or so I build myself a new box from scratch. Before hand I spend a few weeks doing research on what the latest tech's are so I can make an educated decision on what to buy. I used to be "on the tools" for years in IT and knew it all but I'm now stuck in a back office looking after the tech's so I don’t stay with current info. I like putting together my own boxes for myself and my brother. Then I pretty much drop out of the scene until my PC wont run the latest games and start the process again. I have found these forums to be a HUGE help. Originally I was going to go AMD 939 but with the research (about 6-8 weeks this time) I noticed a big swing to the new Intel chips. I would post what I decided on but I don’t want to get to much crap on my choices. Thanks for your reply.

 

[SuperFly03]

Considering no one knows jack, even people looking at the earlier silicon version right now at CES, talking about it is like talking about what will end life on earth. Entertaining to talk about, but no one knows, we only know that something will happen eventually (at the latest when the Sun envelopes the earth).

I agree. I only estimate the lead based on a gut feeling, I have absolutely no proof to back it up lol. I will admit when I am guessing, it will just be interesting to see what actually happens.

*crosses fingers*

--Mr.Buzz

RivaTuner/Coolbit/ATI Tool/powerStrip Tool should all allow the overclocking of the GTX. It really won't make too much of a difference which one you use. Although, Coolbits reg entry just opens up a tool hidden inside the forceware drivers and built in is a "OC checker." What that means is you have to test your OC before you can apply it and it is seemingly conservative about clocks. At least in RivaTuner *i think* you can disable that check, and power strip doesn't have it. I don't know much about ATI Tool honestly, so I won't speak to its ability. Tell your brother to take a sedative and not to worry. There are plenty of ways to OC crap these days hehe.

 

[mrbuzz]

Hi Rob

When I say he was pissed it was not throw chairs around the room pissed. It was more like a DAMN IT with a grin on his face as he knows how hard it is to stay current. He loves his 8800 GTX. I think he was more $hitty that his little brother (31 years) beat him. Again.

As for the price the MSI 8800gtx was more expensive than the XFX 8800 GTX xXx edition I was able to find.

 

[mrbuzz]

Hi SuperFly

Thanks for the tip. I will let him know that we can attempt to over clock his card. We have not done much on over clocking but we are very keen to over clock our E6600's in the future so we will try his MSI 8800 at the same time.

 

[mrbuzz]

HA HA HA HA why do I get the feeling controversy is going to begin? I did not start this post to get any I promise. I was just wondering what made Nvidia change their minds about allowing over clocking their cards as I read in several locations they were addiment they were not going to allow it.

 

[SuperFly03]

Only benchmarks I have seen have seemed completely unreliable. I was waiting for some more concrete evidence.

 

[mrbuzz]

Hi Tacos

Yeah I thought that Nvidia might be worried about the R600 and is why they allowed over clocking to be performed. I just did not want to say it off the bat as being a new poster I did not want to get torn in two just yet for making such allegations. People seem to get very "passionate" about these subjects I have noticed. I know I will be happy with my 8800, more than happy. I have always been a Nvidia and Intel person. Around the time I was looking at building a PC for myself and my brother with all the reading here we were ready to make the jump to AMD and ATI as it seemed to be the way to go. However there seemed to be a shift mid research that swung back to Intel and then to Nvidia, as it will do again in the future back to AMD and ATI. You cant wait forever so we drew a line in the sand and jumped. My brother is slack jawed with his box so I cant wait to get my 8800 and get my build together finally.

 

[Heyyou27]

I wouldn't worry about it; the R600 shouldn't be too much faster than the normal 8800GTX, let alone the overclocked versions.

Bah, and I will say BAH again. Have you seen the initial benchmarks? So far, without optimising drivers, the r600 beat the gtx be a clean 10% in some areas. Imigine when the actual drivers come out. The performance will be amazing, not to mention, this is the intial version that is quite slow compared to the march revision. That one will be faster, have more memory, use gddr4 ram instead of gddr3, and will have wider pipelines, and yet you still believe the performance difference won't be much 8OYou're the only one who would trust so no name blog's benchmarks when he provided no screenshots or pictures of the physical card itself, let alone the Oblivion numbers were wrong as well. I'm really just afraid ATI may disappear on the sinking ship that is known as AMD.

 

[mrbuzz]

My personal opinion is the following….. That the R600 will beat the 8800GTX but not by a staggering jaw dropping amount and the reason Nvidia allowed the over clocking as the partners were able to show Nvidia that it was safe and reliable to do so…….. well I hope they did…… and try and bridge the gap between the 8800 and the R600 when its released. My first rant. Be nice.

 

[Heyyou27]

My personal opinion is the following….. That the R600 will beat the 8800GTX but not by a staggering jaw dropping amount and the reason Nvidia allowed the over clocking as the partners were able to show Nvidia that it was safe and reliable to do so…….. well I hope they did…… and try and bridge the gap between the 8800 and the R600 when its released. My first rant. Be nice.

I too agree that the R600 will outperform the G80, but that opinion is not based on those phony benchmark I_Love_Tacos took as gospel.

 

[redman2025]

Here is something to look at I would rather have the R600 when it comes out.
ATI R600Benchmarks

 

[Ycon]

Even if ATi manages to beat the 8800 GTX (which, to be honest, I doubt) nVidia still has its refresh with unknown specs/performance so they can easily strike back if need arises.
Same situation as with X1K when ATi had the "wait-and-strike-back" position.

 

[kaotao]

Here is something to look at I would rather have the R600 when it comes out.
ATI R600Benchmarks

Yeah, those are the "phony" level505 benchmarks that have been going around. Whether it's real or not, I would expect the R600 to be better than the G80, just because it'd be stupid to come this late to the party with an inferior product. But, at this point, who knows...

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Even if ATi manages to beat the 8800 GTX (which, to be honest, I doubt) nVidia still has its refresh with unknown specs/performance so they can easily strike back if need arises.

That's heck of alot of supposition, like most people's writing.
If you don't know what it is how can you even tell if nV can strike back if the need arises? What if by (unlikely) chance the R600 is 2 times faster than the GF8800GTX, then what. It's unlikely that even a refresh of a few 100mhz on the core and then less than 50% memory bandwidth improvement would do anything to equal that. So until we know more, it's kinda hard to say that either side of the equation can esily do anything.

Same situation as with X1K when ATi had the "wait-and-strike-back" position.

Well and in which case the GF7800 refresh didn't do it, the GTX-512 fell short of a solid response to the X1800, and by the time they had their reply to the X1800 (the GF7900) the X1900 had already arrived.

The only thing I know for sure, is that when the R600 launches, it'll finally give people some true baselines with which to discuss this.

 

[mrbuzz]

It is true until the R600 comes out nobody will know just how fast it will be. Gut feel out there seems to indicate that it will not be a huge upgrade over the 8800 however only time will tell. Maybe ATI is the sleeping beast and are having a chuckle behind the scenes ready to blow Nvidia out of the water. I doubt it but who knows. All I know is 8800 xXx is due in on Friday and I cant wait to get it.

 

[mrbuzz]

My supplier in Australia gets them on Friday.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Ahh, Australia, I feel for your tech prices, bruttal. I was just down there, and surprised at the prices in Sydney and Melbourne, and also what was the mediocre selection IMO.

The thing is there are things about the R600 that say 'WOW!' but really these architectures are so absolutely different that I don't think anyone other than those with the actual final spin of the R600 can say how the performance will stack up between the two. The other thing is to think about where their focus is, ATi mentioned they are focusing on the DX10 and the DX9 won't be as impressive, but it still should be the fastest DX9 card they have. However that doesn't mean it's worse than the competition, just that it'll be better that their current card, and should be solid for the future, but really no idea of relation to the GF8800.

I know it's fun to discuss the future, and then to argue the architectures, (how they approach unification, memory management, fab, etc. But for we know and think we know of those aspects, I still say that it's too early to draw any conclusions. If I were to say anything remotely definative, I'd say that we won't see a clear winner, and the different architectures and different strengths will see both cards win and lose by noticeable margins in different areas that play to their strengths.

Personally I just hope they (AMD/ATi) deliver on some of their expectations, including dual-link HDCP support on the DVI and the increase in co-processing abilities, and hopefully these benifits will reach the mobility sement soon (since the current offerings are kinda lack-luster).

 

[mrbuzz]

Yeah you need to shop around a liitle bit in Australia. I'm lucky I work for an IT shop so I can generally source and buy parts at cost rather than retail. Its amazing at the price difference between some supliers however.