Radeon 9700 Pro - does this even hold a candle anymore?

[whoaru99]

Topic subject pretty much sums it up.

Does this card even hold a candle to entry level cards these days? Say against cards running about $100?

 

[cleeve]

The 9700 PRO is about as good as, say, a Geforce 6600 (not GT) or X700 (not pro)

Still a decent card. I used one for reference in an upcoming review, there wasn't a new game it couldn't play at 1024x768 smoothly at decent detail.

 

[NamelessMC]

I wouldn't upgrade from a 9700 Pro to a 7600GT, because that's not a DRASTIC upgrade.

It depends on what games you're playing.

If you're upgrading barely now from a 9700 Pro, I'd say it definitely lived out its full lifetime. I mean those came out when, 2003? 2002? That's a long time ago. For a card to last 3-4 years, I'd say it definitely fit the bill.

 

[cleeve]

I wouldn't upgrade from a 9700 Pro to a 7600GT, because that's not a DRASTIC upgrade.

I do not think you have experience with these cards.

Going to a 7600 GT from a 9700 PRO is a COLOSSAL upgrade.

At least twice the framerates at higher settings with a 7600 GT, if not triple in some cases...

Then again, the 7600 GT AGP is at least $180, it's definitely more than the $100 mark.
But a $130 X1650 PRO or 7600 GS is still a big upgrade from the 9700 PRO.

 

[NamelessMC]

I wouldn't upgrade from a 9700 Pro to a 7600GT, because that's not a DRASTIC upgrade.

I do not think you have experience with these cards.

A 7600 GT from a 9700 PRO is a COLOSSAL upgrade.

At least twice the framerates at higher settings with a 7600 GT, if not triple in some cases...

I'm not talking about the upgrade by itself. I'm talking about the reasoning behind it.

I don't like when people give bad advice on this forum. And the bottom line is, any advice leading a person to stick with AGP is bad advice.

And I don't know if you're comparing a 7600GT AGP or PCI-Express, because while it's a big framerate difference, it doesn't change the fact that you're going from "not" being able to play games at max settings to "still not" being able to play games at max settings.

 

[monkeymanuk]

I wouldn't upgrade from a 9700 Pro to a 7600GT, because that's not a DRASTIC upgrade.

I have to disagree.

I went from 9600pro which is only slight slower than 9700 and it was a revelation.

7600GT is a great card that you can overclock easily and now it's really cheap.

Can you not afford a 7900GS?????

Or even 1900XT???

 

[ILOVEPEARLJAM]

im still using a 9600 pro - the fan is really giving way.... AGP

 

[cleeve]

:sigh:

There's not a big difference between PCI express and AGP performance.
Who told you there was? Where are your benchmarks to prove it?

Even an Athlon XP 2500+ will show a colossal difference between a 9700 PRO and a 7600 GT. I know because I just wrote a review about it that's going up on Tom's soon...

And the bottom line is, any advice leading a person to stick with AGP is bad advice.

:double sigh:

You don't know what you're talking about, sir.

I don't like it when people give bad advice, either... :roll:

 

[ILOVEPEARLJAM]

:sigh:

There's not a big difference between PCI express and AGP performance.
Who told you there was? Where are your benchmarks to prove it?

Even an Athlon XP 2500+ will show a colossal difference between a 9700 PRO and a 7600 GT. I know because I just wrote a review about it that's going up on Tom's soon...

I don't like it when people give bad advice, either... :roll:

And the bottom line is, any advice leading a person to stick with AGP is bad advice.

:double sigh:

You don't know what you're talking about.

i didn't meant to hint agp was bad i just thought id say its agp lol

im looking for a new card but i cant choose which one !

Sapphire Radeon X1600 PRO 256M DDR2 TVO DVI-I AVIVO PCI-E
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/113199

HIS X1600Pro 512MB Hypermemory 128MB onboard 64bit DDR2 DVI TVO PCI-E
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/119050

Sapphire ATI Radeon X1300 XT 256MB DDR2 VGA TVO DVI PCI-E
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/116155

any geforce ones better? for same price

 

[quantumsheep]

:sigh:

There's not a big difference between PCI express and AGP performance.
Who told you there was? Where are your benchmarks to prove it?

Even an Athlon XP 2500+ will show a colossal difference between a 9700 PRO and a 7600 GT. I know because I just wrote a review about it that's going up on Tom's soon...


And the bottom line is, any advice leading a person to stick with AGP is bad advice.

:double sigh:

You don't know what you're talking about.

I don't like it when people give bad advice, either... :roll:

I like it when Cleeve shows it to someone, gives me a warm feeling inside.

Just gotta hope i'm never on the recieving end, to be honest.

 

[cleeve]

THe X1300 XT is basically an X1600 PRO with a 10mhz or so clock jump. Noting to write home about. I'd get the cheapest of the three.

Pealjam, for under $100 now online (newegg) you should be able to pick up an X1650 PRO or 7600 GS, either of which are better than the cards you listed.
The X1650 PROs probably the slightly better bet, but both are good cheap gaming cards.

I'm talking PCI express here, because those are the cards you listed...

 

[NamelessMC]

I have a 7600GT.

The only reason I got it is because it was 78.99 after rebate. I wouldn't have touched it with a 10' pole otherwise. It doesn't overclock as well as its competitor and there are a lot of games that seem to "favor" the ATI counterpart.

I went from, in this order:

9600XT (Sapphire edition)
to
X800GTO2 (Sapphire, could be softmodded to X850XT capabilities)
to
6800XT (Really bad decision. Gave the X800GTO2 modded to a friend, didn't want to be a jerk and ask for it back when I made a poor videocard decision)
to
7600GT

The X800GTO2 modded was the best card, and was pretty much the best card I could've had at the time.

The 7600GT is about 15-20% slower than my X800GTO2, but for certain games, the upgrade wasn't drastic. The only game I really see a huge performance gain from was FEAR, which was practically not playable at all on my 9600XT and then I could play it max settings with 4x AA on my X800GTO2 @ 1024x768.

I don't know if my BFG 7600GT is buggy or what, I got 6060 score in 3dmark05, and I can't play FEAR at even medium settings @ 1440x900 resolution. Sure Riddick was great, max settings + 4x AA, but FEAR? Runs like crap. Oblivion? Mild performance gain, still can't play at high settings, medium settings still shows some choppiness outdoors.

 

[quantumsheep]

Oblivion? Mild performance gain, still can't play at high settings, medium settings still shows some choppiness outdoors.

Oblivion won't run on my volt modded 7900GT @ 760mhz core 1.9ghz Memory at max settings without getting choppy outside!

 

[cleeve]

In my testing I've found that a 7600 GT will stand toe to toe with an X850 XT in almost everything. There are a few games that favor ATI alot though... Oblivion and Need for Speed Carbon are a couple notables.

 

[ILOVEPEARLJAM]

THe X1300 XT is basically an X1600 PRO with a 10mhz or so clock jump. Noting to write home about. I'd get the cheapest of the three.

Pealjam, for under $100 now online (newegg) you should be able to pick up an X1650 PRO or 7600 GS, either of which are better than the cards you listed.
The X1650 PROs probably the slightly better bet, but both are good cheap gaming cards.

I'm talking PCI express here, because those are the cards you listed...

ok

what about this ?

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=347688

 

[quantumsheep]

THe X1300 XT is basically an X1600 PRO with a 10mhz or so clock jump. Noting to write home about. I'd get the cheapest of the three.

Pealjam, for under $100 now online (newegg) you should be able to pick up an X1650 PRO or 7600 GS, either of which are better than the cards you listed.
The X1650 PROs probably the slightly better bet, but both are good cheap gaming cards.

I'm talking PCI express here, because those are the cards you listed...

ok

what about this ?

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=347688

For the price that's about as good as you'll get, but invest a bit more and for £93 you can get an x1650xt from www.overclockers.co.uk

I personally don't use www.scan.co.uk Try www.overclockers.co.uk , www.aria.co.uk and www.ebuyer.com

 

[ILOVEPEARLJAM]

i really dont game - i wanna keep it cheap. like under 75 bucks maybe

there are so many ...

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/search/?strSearch=x1650+pro&bolShow...=true&a

i wanna keep it as cheap as possible

 

[NamelessMC]

In my testing I've found that a 7600 GT will stand toe to toe with an X850 XT in almost everything. There are a few games that favor ATI alot though... Oblivion and Need for Speed Carbon are a couple notables.

Then I don't know what I think about your testing, because even Tom's Hardware shows an X850XT being anywhere between 10 and 15% faster than a 7600GT in almost every benchmark.

Again, I don't know if my 7600GT is messed up, I was able to play Riddick at max settings + 4x AA, but FEAR ran better on my soft modded X800GTO2 than it did on my 7600GT.

I don't know of any games that favor Nvidia either, so if anything, ATI favored games just leans more weight into choosing an ATI card. The only downfall is probably the higher power usage and that some of them run really hot.

I do remember OC'ing my X800GTO2 and staying under stock temperature at load. I haven't OC'ed my 7600GT though because I don't know if it's running right and it's already OC'ed from the factory. (BFG OC version)

 

[kaotao]

I'm not talking about the upgrade by itself. I'm talking about the reasoning behind it.

I don't like when people give bad advice on this forum. And the bottom line is, any advice leading a person to stick with AGP is bad advice.

And I don't know if you're comparing a 7600GT AGP or PCI-Express, because while it's a big framerate difference, it doesn't change the fact that you're going from "not" being able to play games at max settings to "still not" being able to play games at max settings.

Classic. Come on man, just admit you made a foolish comment and move on. We all do from time to time.

 

[cleeve]

Then I don't know what I think about your testing, because even Tom's Hardware shows an X850XT being anywhere between 10 and 15% faster than a 7600GT in almost every benchmark.

Well, here's my testing:

Oblivion - X850 XT faster (although X850 couldn't compete in HDR tests)
Far Cry - X850 XT faster (although X850 couldn't compete in HDR tests)
Quake 4 - 7600 GT faster
NFS Most Wanted: 7600 GT faster (close though)
SW: empire at war: 7600 GT faster
X3 reunion: X850 XT faster (close)

3 for the X850, 3 for the 7600 GT.
Looks pretty toe-to-toe to me.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/04/14/is_the_kuformula_vf1_plus_the_formula_for_graphics_cooling/

 

[quantumsheep]

I'm just wondering, how did you become a reviewer for THG?

 

[cleeve]

Easy! I applied.

 

[quantumsheep]

Easy! I applied.

But where did the last reviewer go?! *looks at Cleeve suspiciously*

 

[tengumai]

Wow, I was sure glad to see this post. I am also looking to upgrade my 9700 Pro (that I purchased in 2002/3). This has been a great card for me for a long time, but I really felt its limitations in the new release "Dark Messiah of Might and Magic". Had to turn down the rez and turn off a lot of the beauty in order to maintain playable frame rates, and even then it barely clunked along.

I'm on a pretty tight budget for an upgrade. After reading a couple of Cleeve's excellent articles, I've been thinking about a used X850 XT. I see them going used for about $110-$120 and that sounds like it would be a pretty big step up in performance.

I'd like your thoughts and recommendations. I'm definitely staying in AGP-land for the next 12-18 months, so I need AGP and would ideally double my framerates for 1280/1024 with 2x AA when playing a variety of games.

I don't need or expect a card to last me another 4 years: I'll shop for that when I buy my first PCI-E mobo in 2008.

Thanks,
tengu

 

[tengumai]

Oh: one more question. I replaced the fan on my old 9700 Pro with a big Zalman heatsink because I hate noisy computers. Am I going to be able to do something similar with a more modern AGP card?

Thanks,
tengu