Ceramic cooling?

[ZozZoz]

http://www.tgdaily.com/2007/01/09/ces2007_dell_plantatree/

The pics weren't of much use, its in a plastic (or is it aluminium?) casing...

Has anyone heard of that? Are they simply using ceramics instead of copper?

 

[duthoy]

he's right,
can someone explain what ceramic cooling is, and how it works?
wikipedia and google weren't usefull, do'h!

 

[Zephyn]

IMHO looks like it works sort of like a car with a turbo and intercooler setup.

Take a cars radiator(from their example) a radiator helps cool the antifreeze to regulate the engines temp. This case the engine would be the cpu.

For the second stage cooling An up-pipe takes the hot exhaust and throws it into the intercooler (this cools the air) This also helps regulate the temp by cooling the air that is getting trown through the motor. In the cpu's case the cooling is the air over the intercooler.

And the regulator (from the article) would be like the thermostat; which opens when the fluid temp gets too hot and shrinks when the fluid is cold. This regulates the engine to run at a specified temp as the regulator would on the XPS computer.

Tell me if anyone thinks my logic is flawed. But I think this is a good example.

 

[ZozZoz]

I dug up some info on ceramic water cooling towers, but those are far from the world of computer hardware. they are as tall as some skyscrapers and cool water at powerplants.

 

[duthoy]

that's just a heatpipe system right?
how about the ceramic?
really don't get it :-s

 

[HotFoot]

My impression was that the ceramic component is actually part of a TEC.

 

[ZozZoz]

a Peletier unit?

 

[HotFoot]

I believe so. I will have to go do some digging to find out where I got that impression. My guess is that the ceramic would be used as a insulator between the cold and hot sides of the TEC plate.

The only other use I can imagine for a ceramic component would be to create vibration. A few years ago, some very effective refrigerators were developed using vibration for cooling, but I have no idea how they worked. I think the sound generated was over 140 dB in any case.

 

[HotFoot]

Here's the link:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2007/01/09/ces2007_dell_xps710_h2c/

According to Dell, a liquid-to-air heat exchanger that works like a car's radiator removes most of the heat from the processor. Then, a fluid chiller removes more heat with ceramic-based thermoelectric cooling (TEC) modules like those used in space shuttles to transfer heat from the sunny side to the cold, dark side in space.

 

[ZozZoz]

If water cooling towers are ceramic, I would imagine its a rather poor heat insulator. More like the contrary.
then again, a teacup does get hot in our hands, but the hot is bearable, unlike with a tin cup.

I'm lost.

 

[ZozZoz]

Oh, thanks man. I should have read the article myself, ))

 

[firemist]

Ceramic cooling has been used in Electrophoresis equipment for a while now. The ceramic is formulated for its thermal properties such as uniform temp across surface. See link

http://www.apelex.fr/electro/IEF/texte.htm

Also a patent link using ceramic in a cooling module

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1294022.html

I believe the reference is to the material used to transfer / conduct heat and not a different technology. It can be used with TEC or liquid or resistive.

Ceramics are also formulated for other uses such as bearings in fans. Interesting material class.

 

[ZozZoz]

Yeah, I heard they use 'em in turbochargers.

 

[HotFoot]

For nuclear reactor water cooling towers, I imagine ceramics are used because of their high temperature strength and anti-corrosion properties.

Ceramics are being used as surface coatings in turbine blades because the ceramic can withstand even higher temperatures than the nickel-metal superalloys.

 

[lance525]

I can't be sure from these pictures, but I assume the "ceramic" part of this would be a peltier. There really would be no need to use ceramic materials, even high thermal conductivity ones (which still won't match the conductivity of copper).

Ceramics are used in heat exchangers where either the temperature or environment precludes the use of metallics. An example would be the heat exchangers off a power plant combustion chamber where temperatures and acidic off gases would rapidly corrode many metallics. The actual cooling towers are merely natural draft structures. The only ceramic in them is the cement they are made of, which was determined more for ease of construction and longevity, rather than the thermodynamic nature of the ceramic materials themselves.

But I could be totally wrong!

 

[arima]

good thread :lol: i was lost myself.. and was wondering how that laminater i have at home works.. it says on the box "ceramic heating component" :?

 

[firemist]

Dell is referring to this as "Black Ice" and uses both peltier and liquid

http://tags.gizmodo.com/gadgets/black-ice/

Also note that Danger Dan is selling a liquid cooling device called Black Ice

http://www.dangerdenstore.com/

 

[pongrules]

Someday I'm going to make the news being the first computer builder to use the Flux Capacitor for cooling.

 

[piratepast40]

The actual cooling towers are merely natural draft structures. The only ceramic in them is the cement they are made of, which was determined more for ease of construction and longevity, rather than the thermodynamic nature of the ceramic materials themselves.

But I could be totally wrong!

The part about the cooling towers is right. Dirt burners and nucs use the same structures to cool the condensate. No significant use of ceramics as heat transfer mediums.

 

[sailer]

Someday I'm going to make the news being the first computer builder to use the Flux Capacitor for cooling.

I can see it now, you're sitting at your computer admiring the new "Flux Capacitor" cooling, when you're suddenly whisked back to 1955. You make the news momentarily with your computer that seems so gee wizz fantastic, then the government confiscates it for their use and now you have no way to get back to the future.

Your only consolation is thinking about what happens to the government guy who uses your computer. Will he go forward is time and find his advanced knowledge barely qualifies him as a dummy, or might he go real far back and get burned as a witch in the Salem witch trials?

 

[pongrules]

Hmm, in that case--with mass production and popular use, I would also be building the world's first time machine. Boy would that get messy.

 

[piratepast40]

This link seems to provide a decent primer on thermoelectric cooling and the use of ceramics: http://www.tellurex.com/12most.html

Don't understand it but it sure sounds cool (sic)!

 

[firemist]

Ceramics is an interesting class of material.

For cooling towers ceramics are chosen for a combination of cost and non-reactive properties.
For Electrophoresis applications it is chosen for differnt reasons, including temperature uniformity.
And for other applications (like fan bearings) ceramic is chosen (and formulated) for the other characteristics.

Going back to the OP, his question / comment about using ceramics instead of copper is correct. Ceramics was chosen for material properties and used with a peltier and liquid cooling solution.

I question how much better (if any) this is over other types of cooling solutions, but I guess Dell believes it can sell more over priced high end systems because I it can market it has "Ceramic Cooling".

I truly dislike marketing hype - show me the performance.

 

[Bloated]

from what little I remember the use of ceramics was rarely about cooling and had far more to do with stability and uniformity under a wide range of stresses.

Honda used ringless Ceramic pistons in some of their F1 cars a while back because they didn't absorb heat and held their shape almost perfectly under the hottest conditions.

they tended to blow alot of oil requiring a seperate oil tank just to get the cars through a race which got the whole design banned in the end because of emissions and safety concerns with oil spraying over a track all afternoon things had the potential to get dicy.

a huge ceramic cooling tower would on the surface tend to indicate that the material isn't so much an effective dissipator which justifies the substancial increase in surface area so much as it's possibly more cost effective or more stable under stress while more long lived as well.

 

[leadtrombone]

I don't know how many people are muscle car fanatics, but in the automotive world the exaust manifolds sometimes are coated with a metalic ceramic coating that allows metals to release heat very quickly. Imagine a 600f engine part that within a few minutes of the car being turned off it is cool to the touch. So if they coated aa heat pipe in this same material it could release heat more effectively and with less cooling fans required.This might be the type of ceramics that dell is using. I don't for sure until more comes out about the system. Just my two cents.