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IS THIS TOO MUCH POWER FOR MY BUILD?

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January 10, 2007 1:59:59 PM

My specs are down at signatures. I do plan on getting a Core 2 Quad or when they become more cheap, and upgrading my GPU some time in the future (2 yrs., but not to Crossfire or SLI dual GPU's cause I'm not a hardcore gamer), along with 2 or more HDDs when I start to run out of space.

This is the PSU I'm getting:
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item...

Is it future-proof?
Is this too much power then I really need?

More about : power build

January 10, 2007 2:45:56 PM

This looks to be more than enough for your sys. You could prob drop to a 550-600w psu & be fine. If you want to cover for the future & possiblities of getting a single high draw video card I'd go with the one you picked
a b ) Power supply
January 10, 2007 3:06:19 PM

Way too much.

I estimate your power consumption on the 12v rails to be as follows:

E6600 @ 3.0GHz.............................................68w CPU power consumption
X1950Pro.......................................................66w GPU power consumption
2 320GB Hard Drives (16w x2 ).........................32w
1 DVD Burner...................................................16w
2 120mm fans...................................................12w
1 120 CPU fan....................................................6w
Total max power consumption on 12v rails..........200w


Estimated power consumption on the 3.3v & 5v rails:

2 sticks of 1GB RAM (over volted).......................24w
2 Hard drives (head motor)................................10w
1 DVD Drive (head motor)...................................5w
Typical Motherboard..........................................40w
Sound Card........................................................8w

Max power consumption on 3.3v & 5v rails..........87w

Total estimated load on PSU.............................287w

I would add about 7w of power consumption for every 300MHz increase above 3.0GHz for the Core 2 Duo.

The Core 2 Extreme QX6700 quad core CPU consumes about 110w at stock speed. Click here to see power consumption. I'm guessing for every 300MHz overclock to the QX6700 you should add about 24w.
Related resources
January 10, 2007 3:33:56 PM

Thats a great PSU. It is more than enough for your current rig but if you want a good amount of future-proofing why not go for it?

You could get by with 500-600w PSU and assume Nvidia and ATI saying they will become more energy efficient in the future will happen soon and to some good degree. I'd rather play it safe and be prepared in case there is another jump in power needs. Besides it won't cost you more on your power bill just because its capable of pushing more power to your system. It'll only use what your system needs.
January 10, 2007 4:15:37 PM

I see that the PSU managed to fry the Caps Lock key on your keyboard...

And, yes, that PSU is overkill - for now.
January 10, 2007 4:16:50 PM

That is junk(sorry to be rude)! or did miss something 36 amps on the 12v for $125 - thats really low- research that u can get a good psu with 36amps for $25.

tiger sells junk - i have go to their store today, to return a system they sold that was tested and monitor is broken and the run dll error. I picked up an hp system to part out.

ocz makes a 72 amp i think its a 750 or the specs are wrong on tiger add.


2 18amp 12 rails is not enough for 1 highend card - usually thats a 500 watt psu. I pulled a ocz psu that was too small - they are tuff though.


AC INPUT 115V/230V - 60/50Hz
DC OUTPUT +3.3V +5V +12V +12V -12V -5V +5VSB
700W Max
Combined
Watts 36A 40A 18A 18A 0.5A - 2.0A
700W
January 10, 2007 4:21:07 PM

new egg shows 72 amps so either the tiger specs are wrong or u need to get this model


edit--> after looking at the specs this is differnet psu - this is what u want.

Brand OCZ
Model OCZ700GXSSLI
Series GameXStream
SPEC
Type ATX12V
Maximum Power 700W
Fans 120mm fan x 1
PFC Active
Main Connector 20 + 4Pin
Dual +12V Yes
PCI-E Connectors 2 x 6-pin
SLI Support Yes
Modular Cabling Support No
Over Voltage Protection Yes
Input Voltage 100 - 240 V
Input Frequency Range 50/60 Hz
Input Current 10A @ 115V, 5A @ 230V
Output +3.3@36A,+5V@30A,+12V1@18A,+12V2@18A,+12V3@18A,+12V4@18A,-12V@0.8A,+5VSB@3.0A
Features
Connectors 1 x 20+4-pin ATX
1 x 4-pin/8-pin CPU
2 x PCI-Express
6 x 4-pin peripheral
2 x 4-pin floppy
6 x SATA
Features Designed specifically for the demanding computing environments of PC Enthusiasts, Power Users, and Gamers.
The GameXStream features high-quality components to ensure your PC’s vital hardware is supplied with
January 10, 2007 4:29:04 PM

Quote:
This is the PSU I'm getting:
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item...

Is it future-proof?
Is this too much power then I really need?


Too much power? In a sense, yes, but if you continue with upgrades and eventually go with Vista and a DX10 card, you may need it. Nothing is totally future proof, but buying with a thought to the future means you don't have to replace something sooner then expected. As jaguarsky wrote, your present needs could be filled with a smaller psu. It all depends on exactly what you intend to do in the future as to whether or not the psu you picked is a good one, powerwise.
January 10, 2007 5:38:56 PM

Yea I think the tiger specs must be wrong or something, it's a top seller and no way a +12v@36A is that expensive (I'm gonna call them up to make sure).
And the caps help grab attention btw smartass, j/k thanks for the help guys. Was going for the same brand, but at 600Watts, unfortunately it's out of stock.
January 10, 2007 5:55:29 PM

Quote:
u can get a good psu with 36amps for $25.


No you cannot get a good PSU for $25 anywhere

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
a b ) Power supply
January 10, 2007 5:55:58 PM

Quote:
new egg shows 72 amps so either the tiger specs are wrong or u need to get this model




While each 12v rail is listed to provide 18 amps, that is peak amps not continuous amps. If this 700w PSU can truly provide 72 amps on the 12v rails, then that means it can provide 864w alone on the 12v rail; 864w = 12v x 72 amps. Sorry, but no way in hell can this PSU do that.

If you look at OCZ's sticker, it can provide 680w combined on the 3.3v, 5v and 12v rails. The 3.3v and 5v rails can provide up to 155w leaving 525w for the 12v rails. That works out to 43.75 amps on the 12v rails; 43.75 amps = 525w / 12v.

Unfortunately, 525w on the 12v rail may not be exactly right. As stated before 680w is available on all three rails, but what if your PC is only drawing 80w on the 3.3v and 5v rails? Does that mean it can provide 600w (50 amps) on the 12v rails? Maybe, maybe not. What OCZ should have done is list the maximum output for each rail.

But to play it safe let's just assume the OCZ PSU can provide 43.75 amps on the 12v rails.
January 14, 2007 10:52:16 PM

Quote:
You can never have too much power.

If you build a system which requires, say, 400W, and your PS delivers 500W, then it is going to be working near its max capability all the time. This means more heat and noise, and the real possibility of not being able to add more HW to your system.

But if your PS has, say, 750W-1000W, then the PS won't even break a sweat.

Example: let's say you tow a load of 2500 pounds a lot. You are looking at two different trucks: truck (a) has a towing capability of 3000 pounds, and truck (b) can tow 9000.

Truck (a) will meet your needs today, but maybe not in the future. The load will also stress your engine, transmission, and suspension, a lot more and wear them out faster.

Truck (b) probably won't even notice a load 1/3 of its capacity. The engine and drivetrain won't strain, the suspension will still be compliant, and you still have the ability to pull even more.

Bottom line, the only PS's you need to look at all come from PC Power & Cooling. The PS is NOT the place to get cheap or try to save $$.


Really bad analogy. Truck (a) would be working within its load capacity and would suffer no troubles at all. Truck (b) would be wasting a lot of fuel because it not only get worse gas mileage on its own because of the larger engine, but also because of the increased weight. I spent some time in my youth driving truck and trailer, and no one in their right mind would buy truck (b) if they only needed truck (a).

With a psu, they are made to run at maximum efficiency within a particular range, usually 60-80% rated power, though that may vary. So a 500wt psu operating at 400wt is in that 80% range, and therefore running efficiently, while a 750wt would be operating at about 53% power and be wasting a lot of power. A 1000wt would be down at 40%, therfore wasting an incredible amount of power.

The only good reason for buying a 750wt psu when you presently need only a 500wt is because you are planning to buy a more power hungry video card, for example, and want the large psu in place before the card goes in.
January 14, 2007 11:32:39 PM

But based on that than the PS would be using more power than the other ps? How can a ps at 1000w consume more power than a 400w ps running identical setups? Just seems like logic would presume that both would use the same amount of power, assuming they had the same efficiency. And the truck analogy does work, in the sense that something that has to strain to keep up the workload vs something that exerts little strain, its obvious that the one with little strain will last longer. Heat wears out compenents for thousands of reasons, run a ps under high load long enough and it can start a fire, run a ps under low load and it lasts exponentially longer. Oh, and what is the truck towing 2500 needs to pull 4500pds? then you'll be glad you have the bigger truck when the time comes. Analogies arent meant to be taken literally, or at least you're supposed to understand when to use it literally (like for a riddle maybe). Anyway, I am curious about how having a 1000w psu would consume more power than a 400w psu running on identical machines.
January 15, 2007 5:08:45 PM

Quote:
Since when are computer builders in their right-minds when they spend $700 on a graphics card that no game supports (yet), or $1000 for a Quad-CPU when something like 99.9% of applications and games barely support two cores?

If your truck can haul 3000lbs, and you frequently carry 2500lbs, your suspension is going to be near its max capacity. The front-end is going to be lifted upwards and the rear will be compressed. And don't forget that the suspension's travel will be significantly be reduced, meaning that each bump you hit will definitely be felt. The bigger truck would laugh it off.

What I am saying here is that you should get a really high-quality PSU that exceeds your needs for now because it will pay off in the future (as in not having to buy another).


For both you and eric54, the truck analogy does work. Trucks are normally rated at about two thirds their actual capacity. That's to keep liability lawyers at bay for when somebody does overload it. Therefore, a truck rated at 3000 lbs could tow a load of 4500 pounds. But if you ever had an accident or got pulled over by a cop doing that, you'd have a very big fine to pay. As for people who do buy bigger trucks then needed, well they exist and they help keep the gas companies rich because they burn all that extra gas for no good reason. Another thing about the big truck pulling a light load, yes, it would laugh off the light load, but it would rise like there were no springs of shock absorbers because there isn't enough weight to compress them properly. Further, the big one wouldn't last any longer. Engines are rated in how many hours or miles they are expected to last, not by the loads they carry.

As to large psu's, I did write that there was a good reason to buy a larger than needed psu, one where new, power humgry hardware was planned to be purchased. That makes sense, as its cheaper and easier to buy one psu and wire it in rather than buying two psus and wiring them in. With that in mind, when I build my next computer in late spring or early summer, I intend to buy a 1000wt psu for the two video cards it will support.

As to buying a 1000wt psu if ony a 400wt psu was needed, with no upgrades in mind, it is just money wasted. First is the initial cost of the large psu. Second is the effieciency. Lets say the psu is rated at 80% maximum efficiency. That means its best efficiency is loaded at around 800wts, with only 20% being lost to heat, etc. But if you drawing only 400wts, it might only be 30% efficient. That means you're powering up all the capacitators, etc, but the remaining 70% of energy is being turned into extra heat and higher energy costs from the power company. That turns out to be a lot of extra heat inside your computer for no good reason, and most computer builders are trying to limit the amount of heat in their computers.

Are computer builders in their right minds when they buy stuff more powerful then needed? No they aren't, and they pay a lot of money for that distinction. Its one reason that I own more than one computer. I have a big, fancy, powerful one for gaming, and a simple one for doing word processing and web surfing. The big one has all the bells and whistles and uses a 700wt psu. The simple one doesn't have much of anything extra and uses a 250wt psu. Each has its place.

Of course, if you want to buy a larger then needed psu for bragging rights, then its your priviledge and no one's going to stop you. Its your money and you have the right to spend it as you please. Same with trucks. If someone wants to buy a Freightliner to pull his ski boat, then its his priviledge, subject to DMV laws of course, but its still a waste of money and energy. By the way, Jaguarskx has reasearched and written a lot about psus, so he should be able to answer specifics about them better than I.
January 15, 2007 5:58:59 PM

Siverstone 750w strider



Here's the power supply I got for a great price. $169.99 CND is really good, and actually has a continuous supply of 54A on combined 12v rails and its a typo on their description for peak, it is 56A. I don't know if you guys have seen Jonny Guru's review on the GameXstream but under load the power supply actually fell out of ATX 12V speculation; more than a 150mV ripple on the 12V rail.
January 15, 2007 5:59:37 PM

Years back I did work for a truck builder for a couple years, and I also drove trucks and trailers, so I do know how they were built and rated. The trucks were overengineered, specifically so there wouldn't be problems when someone overloaded one, and to help keep laibility lawyers at bay. The Star Trek reference is close to what reality often is.

To your psu example, for a third time, if power hungry upgrades are intended, then getting the larger psu is certainly cheaper. But most people probably spend their money on a computer that's meant to last them three of more years, with only minor upgrades during that time. If the psu size is wisely chosen in the beginning, it won't need to be upgraded with the hardware upgrades. A 650wt psu should be enough to handle almost anything that a XP user has. When Vista gets fully implemented and people are going to SLI/Crossfire, then 1000wt psus will be more commonly needed. At the same time, the hope of many is that the new cards will become more energy efficient with further developement so that the giant psu sizes won't be necessary. But if you want to buy the huge psu on the idea of possible future upgrades, its your money and your right to do so.
January 15, 2007 6:05:39 PM

Quote:
Siverstone 750w strider



Here's the power supply I got for a great price. $169.99 CND is really good, and actually has a continuous supply of 54A on combined 12v rails and its a typo on their description for peak, it is 56A. I don't know if you guys have seen Jonny Guru's review on the GameXstream but under load the power supply actually fell out of ATX 12V speculation; more than a 150mV ripple on the 12V rail.


That 750wt psu is a good size for your machine. Possibly a bit large, but it allows for future upgrades, perhaps even SLI if you want. Good choice in my opinion. Haven't read the review on the Gamestream. Hopefully either they just got a bad one or the company will respond and correct the problem.
January 15, 2007 6:39:36 PM

The extra power is for future SLI.
Actually FSP did. They sent him another and had high ripple also. Jonny doesn't test by loading up a system and seeing how it runs and checks the wall outlet power or anything like that. He hooks the power supply up to a ATX power supply testing machine so he's able to control the loads on each idividual rail and test them each by adding more and more power. The OCZ failed at 697W I think and only had 12A on each rail.

Jonny Guru's GameXstream Review.
January 15, 2007 6:54:41 PM

Interesting to read. It does leave a bit of a quandry in that most people probably won't load up that psu to the problem point, but it should be fixed by the company. The biggest concern I would have is that with time and wear, the ripple would get worse and extend into lower power draws. But again, hopefully the source of the problem will be discovered and corrected.
January 15, 2007 8:16:21 PM

Very true, for most people you'll never see that much power. Also very true is that even at lower power draws, over time, that ripple will become reality. I also hope that this is taken care of because there is many people who are going to want to be using that power swap warrenty after a couple years of use.
January 15, 2007 9:55:27 PM

Sorry to hear the bad news about the motherboard, may it rest in peace. That does point out a good reason to have an old, dusty and trusty computer to use when the new one stops working. I've had to use my old one a couple times myself when a piece broke on teh new one.
January 15, 2007 10:10:22 PM

Thats enoug, I would say too much. But is always good to have something extra if you would like to go SLI or Crossfire ;)  or maybe you might hdd's in the future and thats where those 700watts help ;) 
January 15, 2007 11:13:53 PM

I think some of these posters have a few bent pins... 8O

That power supply is good enough to run two 8800gtx's in sli, with an oc'd qx6700 cpu. If you like overkill (I know I do) go for it. You don't need it though.
January 16, 2007 3:11:03 AM

I suppose we could bake you a cake or something, but with my cooking, it might end up hard as a brick? Did I mention the candles would be firecrackers?
January 16, 2007 4:07:39 AM

Quote:
You can never have too much power.


Sure you can. This is called "waste" and it serves no purpose. Power supplies are cheap, get a supply that meets your demands comfortably and use it until the next upgrade. Don't waste.
-cm
January 16, 2007 6:48:56 PM

Quote:
You can never have too much power.


Sure you can. This is called "waste" and it serves no purpose. Power supplies are cheap, get a supply that meets your demands comfortably and use it until the next upgrade. Don't waste.
-cm

Agreed :wink:
January 16, 2007 9:20:18 PM

Yes, but obviously there are a lot of silly people in the world. At least when people use overly large psu's it doesn't hurt anyone else.
January 16, 2007 11:26:29 PM

Not hurting people is no excuse for waste.
-cm
January 16, 2007 11:41:49 PM

Why would you need a 700 watts psu when your pc would reach barely 550?

He is not going SLI and I dont think he is gonna use 4 drives or 4 cd-rom drives...
January 16, 2007 11:43:13 PM

Maybe he likes to lick open wires and let the current run through his body, envigoring him and causing him to feel sensual.
-cm
January 16, 2007 11:53:29 PM

:twisted:
January 17, 2007 12:23:14 AM

I would drop below 600 watts
January 17, 2007 12:50:16 AM

Yes.
I will probably get crucified for this, but I have a Ultra Xconnect 550watt in my machine and it has been awfully stable with very little fluctuations on the 12v rail that I noticed. I would recommend it, even though it is only 50 bucks.
-cm
January 17, 2007 1:17:34 AM

Quote:
And the truck analogy does work, in the sense that something that has to strain to keep up the workload vs something that exerts little strain, its obvious that the one with little strain will last longer.


The engine will only display excessive wear if:

a) It's made from low quality components and,
b) It's being subjected to large amounts of stress (i.e. high rpm) for long periods of time.

If an engine is made from low quality components then yes, it will die quicker IF it is placed under stress; if not, then there's no problem. How many old Toyota Corolla's are out on the road?

Now, the point of that analogy is that trucks are rarely stressed because they are built for pulling/towing, which requires lots of torque and not power, so therefore the rev limit can be dropped to a low level (4,500-5,000rpm not uncommon, and even less for larger trucks). The peak torque also comes in low in the rev range. This is to ensure that they aren't placed under excessive stress all the time.

-Power is a measure of how fast you can go (aerodynamics permitting).
-Torque is a measure of how fast you can get there.
January 17, 2007 1:26:53 AM

I have a 94 4 Corrolla with 196000 miles on it. I keep it clean and in decent condition and the engine displays no signs of wear or age.
You make me happy Roxor. :trophy:
-cm
January 17, 2007 1:32:10 AM

That metaphor is not correct. There are differences between a power supply and an engine.

If a power supply is said to run at 600 watts, having a 600 watt system is not "redlining" the power supply. You should say that a 600 watt PSU running a 550 watt system is the same as a inline 4 running at recommended RPMs. 600 watts is the PSUs MAX, you should not exceed that; it is safe to meet it though.

Case in point: my PC consumes 534 watts, last I checked. My PSU runs 550 watts max. I have had no issues with my PSU. I have had no random shut downs. I have had no trouble.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
-cm
January 17, 2007 2:18:57 AM

Good catch, I thought I knew the difference between analogies and metaphors. I know that similies use "like" or "as" but that's it. I love Wikipedia, if my professors don't.

Umm... I also don't see how that next analogy is even a bit relevent in this situation.

Perhaps this: Why would you get warp drive despite the cost over impulse when you only need to travel to a nearby planet? (Reading about Star Trek on Wiki now...)
-cm
January 17, 2007 10:06:23 AM

I drive a four cylinder putter to work because it is good on the mpg. It gets the best mileage between 55 and 60. But when they open up the new freeway I'm gonna be doing much more than that on a regular basis, and since it'll be a shorter drive for me, I'll use about the same amount of gas. Technically I'll be wasting fuel, but to me it WILL be good. I'll save time, and that I can't get more of. One man's thoroughbred is another man's turd factory.

If this guy wants the big psu, it's his business.
January 17, 2007 11:11:42 AM

"Bottom line, the only PS's you need to look at all come from PC Power & Cooling. The PS is NOT the place to get cheap or try to save $$."


Total and complete rubbish.

There are plenty of quality PSU manufacturers out there, not just the one your're a fanboy of.

Utter twaddle, as was your truck anaolgy.
January 17, 2007 12:29:53 PM

I respect your attempt to show us the "big picture". Unfortunately, I will not be swayed by reason. :p 
-cm
January 17, 2007 1:41:02 PM

This topic went everywhere and then some. I'm OP btw, I guess I'll be going with some 600Watts to save money. Yea that Ripple thing kind of bother me on the GameXstream from Jonny's review, Mlichfamily said it wouldn't affect me but I don't know, considering I might one day need more power...now I have to look for another one :x
January 17, 2007 2:09:29 PM

There's no harm in getting a PSU with a higher spec than you need. In fact its a good idea.

A 700W PSU under a 400W load will be much more efficient (say 80-85%) and run cooler than a 400W PSU running at maximum load (efficiency could be as bad as 60% and would run very hot ).

PSU eficiency directly translates into less electricity usage = power bill savings.

Lower wattage PSU's also tend to have worse build quality as they're aimed more at the grey box market. This means the 700w psu will probably last longer both through better build quality and as the 400w PSU may be continually running close to its max. load which tends to kill PSU's after about a year or so anyway.

Its also worth considering the cost of possible replacement cpu, mem etc that a stressed PSU could take out with a voltage spike when it blows up.
January 17, 2007 2:25:03 PM

:?
-cm
January 17, 2007 2:26:53 PM

Ok...Are these any good?


Ultra X-Connect V-Series 600-Watt 120mm Fan 20/24-Pin Modular Power Supply
It's modular so that's a plus. Theres also a 700Watts for $25 bucks (cdn) more. 2 Sata (Just confirming...when they say 2 Sata connecters, that means I can only power 2 sata HDDs right?)
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item...


or

Ultra V-Series 600W ATX 120mm Fan 20/24-Pin SATA Ready Power Supply
4 Sata connecters.
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item...

ANY OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS? FOR AROUND SAME PRICE IN CDN $


SITUATION:
I'll be OCin' a E4300 or E6300 (getting Core 2 Quad next year), with 4 HDDs and 2 DVD drives. I'm not into gaming that much, so I wont be going Dual GPU's. Is the Ultra gonna provide enough power for my build, and some future upgrades (quad and possibly a GPU upgrade in the future).
January 17, 2007 2:36:10 PM



Click on the pic, I made it too damn small.
-cm
January 17, 2007 3:21:02 PM

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SCREW IT!!!!!!!!!

I'm just gonna go with the OCZ GameXstream 700W (looks like a good deal)
http://www.pcvonline.com/productDetails.aspx?id=3582

The rest are way too expensive for Watts/Price Ratio. This is a good deal to me, I don't care anymore. Buying locally since I don't have a credit card or nothing...sigh... :lol: 
January 17, 2007 3:44:17 PM

NOOOO, Siverstone 750w with 52A modular for $169 with no mail in rebates. NOOOOOOO!!!!
January 17, 2007 3:47:04 PM

Or the 600w model for $149 and 42A.
!