New C2D Build, Critique Please

[MrLocoCoco]

About to order a new build, budget is about $1600 USD but I could go over a little if I absolutely had to. I do plan on OCing but not a ridiculous amount (If i reached 400FSBx8 3.2Ghz I would be more than happy). I do game but mostly I just play MMO's so I won't be playing anything like Oblivion so I don't think I need a real high end video card. Anyways, here's the build.

CPU : C2D E6400 ($222)
Motherboard : Gigabyte DS3 ($144.99)
PSU : OCZ GameXStream 600W ($134.99 -$20 MIR)
HD : Seagate Barracuda SATA 320GB 7200.10 ($94.99)
Optical Drive : Lite-On 16x SATA DVD Burner ($35.99)
Memory : Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 4-4-4-12 ($276 -$40 MIR)
Video Card : x1900XT or x1950XT, Which is the better buy? ($200 vs $220) I'd love to save 20 dollars but if it's worth it I'll go for the x1950XT.
Case : Lian-Li PC-60PlusII ($139.99 Already Bought)) (click here for additional questions about this please)
CPU Cooling : Scythe Infinity ($47.99 Already Bought)
Monitor : ViewSonic 19" WS Q19wb ($194.99 -$20 MIR Already Bought)
Windows : Media Center Edition ($109.99)
Allowing myself about $100 for Speakers, Keyboard, Mouse, Thermal Compound, and Wireless Adapter. Don't need anything fancy in that department.

Total : $1702 ($1622 After MIR) with x1900xt and $1732 ($1642 After MIR) with x1950xt.

A lot of people on these forums have suggested the Super Talent memory but it wasn't on the list of compatible memory with DS3 so I chose the XMS2 and its $20 dollars cheaper than Super Talent anyway. I know the case is a little expensive for my build but it's the one I wanted so I bought it a couple weeks ago. I'd really like some input on airflow options so if you could reply here or on the other thread I linked about that would be great.

 

[MrLocoCoco]

Any ideas?

 

[ReverendGadgetBoy]

About to order a new build, budget is about $1600 USD but I could go over a little if I absolutely had to. I do plan on OCing but not a ridiculous amount (If i reached 400FSBx8 3.2Ghz I would be more than happy). I do game but mostly I just play MMO's so I won't be playing anything like Oblivion so I don't think I need a real high end video card. Anyways, here's the build.

CPU : C2D E6400 ($222)
Motherboard : Gigabyte DS3 ($144.99)
PSU : OCZ GameXStream 600W ($134.99 -$20 MIR)
HD : Seagate Barracuda SATA 320GB 7200.10 ($94.99)
Optical Drive : Lite-On 16x SATA DVD Burner ($35.99)
Memory : Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 4-4-4-12 ($276 -$40 MIR)
Video Card : x1900XT or x1950XT, Which is the better buy? ($200 vs $220) I'd love to save 20 dollars but if it's worth it I'll go for the x1950XT.
Case : Lian-Li PC-60PlusII ($139.99 Already Bought)) (click here for additional questions about this please)
CPU Cooling : Scythe Infinity ($47.99 Already Bought)
Monitor : ViewSonic 19" WS Q19wb ($194.99 -$20 MIR Already Bought)
Windows : Media Center Edition ($109.99)
Allowing myself about $100 for Speakers, Keyboard, Mouse, Thermal Compound, and Wireless Adapter. Don't need anything fancy in that department.

Total : $1702 ($1622 After MIR) with x1900xt and $1732 ($1642 After MIR) with x1950xt.

A lot of people on these forums have suggested the Super Talent memory but it wasn't on the list of compatible memory with DS3 so I chose the XMS2 and its $20 dollars cheaper than Super Talent anyway. I know the case is a little expensive for my build but it's the one I wanted so I bought it a couple weeks ago. I'd really like some input on airflow options so if you could reply here or on the other thread I linked about that would be great.

Your build seems pretty good to me. However, going down to the e6300 might make sense for you, as you said you wanted to save a little money. 400 fsb is easily reachable with it, which is 2.8 ghz. I have basically that case, and its really good for cooling, with the exception of the graphics card (at least for me). It traps hot air down around it. I would go with the cheaper of your two cards, because you can save the money, and maybe get a DX10 card at some point. Everything else looks wonderful.

 

[ReverendGadgetBoy]

Oh yeah btw dont pay for windows. You can get home edition for free very easily.

Unless you have a conscience about ripping off big corporations.

 

[akhilles]

I've totally forgotten the good ol' P5WDH. Wow, DS3 is infecting this forum a lot lately.

The rig looks good. In fact, very good. x1950XT all the way. Well worth the extra 20 bones. The ram doesn't matter much so long as it's DDR2. Worst case scenario is you need a small stick of compatible ddr2 to set up memory timings & voltage in bios.

 

[MrLocoCoco]

k, thanks for input.

Care to PM me on how to get it for free ReverendGadgetBoy? lol

 

[ReverendGadgetBoy]

sure thing. its not hard though.

 

[NamelessMC]

To note, thought I'd throw some food for thought you might like to munch on:

Dropping to the 6300 from the 6400

-Not as many successful 2.8 ghz builds have come from a 6300 as the 6400. Buying the 6400 is like buying a pass to the 2.8 ghz club. You're basically in, as long as you do it right. With the 6300, 2.5 is the only guarantee, and even with moderation and caution, 2.5 could be all you get. While a lot of people hit HIGHER than 2.5, there have been people that have gotten unlucky. 6400 at this point guarantees the 6 step processor.

Gigabyte DS3 to Asus P5WDH

-Couldn't agree more. Jump off the Gigabyte ship and onto the Asus boat. If you don't plan on SLI, you could get the P5B, which is still a very great board. Just stay with ASUS and you're good. As long as it's a rendition of the P5 (P5B or P5WDH) you're set.

OCZ GameXStream 600W? Why not 700?

-With DX10 around the corner, you're securing your seat with DX10 cards if you get the 700 version of the GameXStream, especially considering how small the cost is to upgrade. This power supply wins the internet, trust me.

Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 4-4-4-12? Think about value

-There's an article somewhere. I don't remember if it's on Tomshardware or overclockers or somewhere else but, the general consensus of the article was that as long as you have DDR800, you're fine upping the front side bus, but the small negligible gain from using quality ram over value ram didn't justify the cost. Consider value ram and at least research it. To most hard core OC'ers, quality ram is when you get to the big guns (water cooling and advanced ram timings).

x1900XT or x1950XT, Which is the better buy?

-It's no doubt the X1900XT is a sweet buy at $200, but the X1950XT at $20 more is exactly the one in benchmarks, where-as the $200 X1900XT is only 256 MB when the benchmarked version was the 512 MB version. It's basically folk-tale that the X1900XT is a great buy, when in fact it's really just a "decent" buy, since the bench-marked version is actually closer to $250-260, and the $200 256 MB version would probably benchmark more around the 7900GT/1950 Pro field. So get the X1950XT.

Overall - The build is nice, but you cut a few corners you didn't have to. The 700W power supply is worth the extra 15$ you'd spend to get it. Also, try to find out if quality ram is better than value ram for yourself. It really is just colors and box art as far as I'm concerned. I've never went with anything other than value ram and haven't had a problem peaking my processors. You don't really have to get the Media Center Windows, and ignore any of the Crusaders of Microsoft that will flame and insult you when you talk of being a Pirate, yar!

 

[ReverendGadgetBoy]

I disagree with that about the 6300 being difficult to get to 2.8. Thats where mine is right now, and there was ABSOLUTELY no trouble. I raised it in steps of 20 fsb all the way to 400, no signs of trouble till around 415.

 

[TSIMonster]

Stick with the gigabyte... its cheaper anyway right? Great MOBO, much better value then the ASUS. If it were me, I would step down to the x1950Pro or something in the 160-170 rang for a vid card if your in to MMOs. That will save you some cash now and give you more for going to DX10 in the future. Also, I say go e6300 too, you'll be more then satisfied.

 

[snake_pliskin]

I am here to confirm the easyness of the E6300 to 2.8 I did with no vcore change so there ya go

 

[NamelessMC]

I disagree with that about the 6300 being difficult to get to 2.8. Thats where mine is right now, and there was ABSOLUTELY no trouble. I raised it in steps of 20 fsb all the way to 400, no signs of trouble till around 415.

Oh so you got every single 6300 on the planet to hit 2.8?

Seriously how do people like you even make it past 10 posts on this board.

Go check the database for Core 2 Duo performance. 6300 has almost quadruple the amount of results in the sub 2.7 ghz area as the 6400. In the 6400 bench-mark chart there's only a small hand-full of them in the sub 2.8 mark.

I'm getting sick of people thinking their result is going to be the same as everyone else's. It's quite simple, re-read my post ten times if you need to. I said while the 6300 is POSSIBLE to hit 2.8, it's not guaranteed and unless you can go to the houses of the 10 or so owners of 6300's that can't hit 2.8 and HIT 2.8 for them, you should shut up and stop arguing.

 

[ReverendGadgetBoy]

Ok what is this database you speak of? Is it the database of max overclocks with each processor? cause i highly doubt it. And if it is what i think it is, then it doesnt serve as proof that the e6300 is difficult to get to 2.8.

I have never heard of ANYONE having trouble getting past 2.8. The highly rated OCing guide on THIS site says thats with many coolers you can reach 3.0 easily. The only situation in which i can see there being trouble reaching 2.8 is in a hot system with stock cooling, which should not be a problem with his system. I always though i got a bad c2d compared to everyone elses, and i got to 2.8 with only one stepup of vcore.

Give me a link to this so-called "database" of yours, or keep your false advice out of the forums.

 

[NamelessMC]

I can't find the database I was looking up before, but this one serves to support my argument enough.

The MEASLY 35 extra dollars is entirely justified.

Hardforum's Conroe Database

Over 60 of the 6400's are post 3.0 ghz. The # of 6300's in the post 3.0 ghz range is close to 20 less.

Only 7 of the 6400's are sub 3.0 ghz whereas 14 of the 6300's are sub 3.0.

Only 8 of the 6400's have water-cooling solutions, while the 6300 has over 14 water-cooling solutions and even one PHASE cooling.

The lowest clock-speed 6400 with water-cooling is 3.2 ghz, and the lowest water-cooling 6300 is 2.8 ghz.

Not enough hard evidence? Oh wait you can discredit it since it's not all the 6000's in the world right? It's hard evidence enough, and if that's not enough, let's get more technical.

The 6300 has a 7x multiplier, whereas the 6400 has an 8x multiplier, giving you the ability to reach post 2.8 ghz clock-speeds with a variety of ram, including DDR667. What does that mean? Oh yeah, even though you spent an extra 35$ on the processor itself, you can save up to $100 by throwing DDR667 value ram in the rig and still reach a 1:1 ratio post 2.8 ghz.

But wait, you didn't argue about that did you? Let's get even more technical. The 8x multiplier gives you the ability to tinker with the FSB setting and multiplier so you can go post 3.0 ghz and be closer to a 1:1 ratio on ram timing than you would with a 6300 and the 7x multiplier.

The 8x multiplier also gives you the ability to use the ASUS P5B motherboard and still get excellent over-clocking results, whereas the 6300 will in most situations require you to use an EVGA board with more over-clocking options.

Most people with 6400's report being able to hit post 2.8 ghz clock-speeds on air cooling, not requiring phase or water cooling solutions, hence NONE of the 6400's on that database have phase cooling and the slowest OC'ed 6400 with water-cooling is 3.2 ghz.

The 6300 however has more reports of hitting the thermal threshold and requiring a water-cooling solution to stay stable.

 

[PSYCHoHoLiC]

While i agree the extra 35 bucks for the extra multi is justified, I also agree that... if someone has a problem hitting 2.8ghz with a 6300, they are obviously doing something wrong... or possibly using some crappy value DDR2 533..

The 6300 however has more reports of hitting the thermal threshold and requiring a water-cooling solution to stay stable.

^^ How does that make sense? Its the same core, Same cache, same everything as the 6400 minus the multi, how would this cpu's thermal threshold be any different? The only thing that might get hot is the northbridge due to the higher FSB.

Sure the 6400 will o/c higher than the 6300 on the same setup due to the higher multi. that said, the 6300 will offer higher performance at the same clockspeed due to the higher FSB.

Mine is rock solid stable at 3.36ghz(E6300), but i run it at 3.0ghz with tigher timings for a quieter system.

 

[ReverendGadgetBoy]

I can't find the database I was looking up before, but this one serves to support my argument enough.

The MEASLY 35 extra dollars is entirely justified.

Hardforum's Conroe Database

Over 60 of the 6400's are post 3.0 ghz. The # of 6300's in the post 3.0 ghz range is close to 20 less.

Only 7 of the 6400's are sub 3.0 ghz whereas 14 of the 6300's are sub 3.0.

Only 8 of the 6400's have water-cooling solutions, while the 6300 has over 14 water-cooling solutions and even one PHASE cooling.

The lowest clock-speed 6400 with water-cooling is 3.2 ghz, and the lowest water-cooling 6300 is 2.8 ghz.

Not enough hard evidence? Oh wait you can discredit it since it's not all the 6000's in the world right? It's hard evidence enough, and if that's not enough, let's get more technical.

The 6300 has a 7x multiplier, whereas the 6400 has an 8x multiplier, giving you the ability to reach post 2.8 ghz clock-speeds with a variety of ram, including DDR667. What does that mean? Oh yeah, even though you spent an extra 35$ on the processor itself, you can save up to $100 by throwing DDR667 value ram in the rig and still reach a 1:1 ratio post 2.8 ghz.

But wait, you didn't argue about that did you? Let's get even more technical. The 8x multiplier gives you the ability to tinker with the FSB setting and multiplier so you can go post 3.0 ghz and be closer to a 1:1 ratio on ram timing than you would with a 6300 and the 7x multiplier.

The 8x multiplier also gives you the ability to use the ASUS P5B motherboard and still get excellent over-clocking results, whereas the 6300 will in most situations require you to use an EVGA board with more over-clocking options.

Most people with 6400's report being able to hit post 2.8 ghz clock-speeds on air cooling, not requiring phase or water cooling solutions, hence NONE of the 6400's on that database have phase cooling and the slowest OC'ed 6400 with water-cooling is 3.2 ghz.

The 6300 however has more reports of hitting the thermal threshold and requiring a water-cooling solution to stay stable.

First off, the debate is about whether he could reach 2.8 ghz, not 3.0. Also, of course MORE people are going to reach higher with the e6400, simply because it has a higher original speed because of its multiplier. I would totally recomend the 6400 if he wanted to go for extreme OCing, but he doesnt at all.

Also, using number of people is totally useless in this case. More people use the 6300, so of course more people are going to have under 3.0 ghz OCs. If you go by percentages of OCs under 2.8 then it becomes MUCH closer, with 93% of 6300s reaching 2.8, compared with 95% of 6400s.

And last I checked it was YOU who was arguing that since I had not tested every 6300 ever then my evidence was worthless.

Also, where are you getting these "reports"? Cause if your using that database, then that makes them totally useless. Just because someone uses watercooling or even phase, it doesnt mean that they HAD to to reach a certain speed. They may want to be ubersafe, or just want cooler temps. Also, it is very common to have watercooling intended for other parts in your computer besides your CPU.

Also, because 52 out of 57 people in that database reached 2.8 with air cooling, often even stock, I would say that that classifies as easy. Its very possible, and I would say likely, that the people below 2.8 were no where near their maximum OC, and had other reasons for staying slower.'

Also, your argument about the RAM is irrelevant. If he REALLY wants to go to slower RAM, it is probably STILL possible to reach 2.8, although i wouldnt recommend it. Many people, including the highest 6300 OC, which is 3.7 ghz, are using 5300 ram. And I dont know what your talking about with the P5B not being the best OCing mobo. That or the P5W DH are regarded as some of the best mobos for c2d OCing. In fact, the person with 3.7 ghz is using the p5b.

 

[ReverendGadgetBoy]

btw sorry to MrLocoCoco for cluttering up his thread with this arguing. Just trying to help you out.

 

[sunangel]

CPU : C2D E6400 ($222) --- switch to the e6300, if you have the extra to buy the e6400 you have extra to buy the e6600
Motherboard : Gigabyte DS3 ($144.99) --- never skimp on the mobo, you need to purchase the Asus P5B-V DH DLX/HDMI GREEN, hopefully all the mobo you'll ever need for this generation of processors
PSU : OCZ GameXStream 600W ($134.99 -$20 MIR) --- no comment, i know nothing about PSU other than run when someone mentions Antec's
HD : Seagate Barracuda SATA 320GB 7200.10 ($94.99) --- excellent choice, just make sure you buy at least 3 for a RAID 5 setup
Optical Drive : Lite-On 16x SATA DVD Burner ($35.99) --- excellent choice, just make sure you buy two for same time burning
Memory : Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 4-4-4-12 ($276 -$40 MIR) --- good choice, maybe want to buy Kingston DDR2-1066 if you decide to switch to the Asus motherboard
Video Card : x1900XT or x1950XT, Which is the better buy? ($200 vs $220) I'd love to save 20 dollars but if it's worth it I'll go for the x1950XT. --- foolish purchase, you need to purchase the 8000 series for the DX10 and HDCP features
Case : Lian-Li PC-60PlusII ($139.99 Already Bought)) (click here for additional questions about this please) --- okay, probably would be much happier with a V-Series Lian Li case
CPU Cooling : Scythe Infinity ($47.99 Already Bought) --- I don't know anything about aftermarket HSF, the intel hsf is damn good
Monitor : ViewSonic 19" WS Q19wb ($194.99 -$20 MIR Already Bought) ---no comment
Windows : Media Center Edition ($109.99) --- total waste, buy retail Vista home premium retail, if you buy mce2005 with vista upgrade you will get lock into that machine only when you upgrade, no further pc changes allowed for those with express upgrade to vista
Allowing myself about $100 for Speakers, Keyboard, Mouse, Thermal Compound, and Wireless Adapter. Don't need anything fancy in that department. --- no comment

Total : $1702 ($1622 After MIR) with x1900xt and $1732 ($1642 After MIR) with x1950xt. --- i haven't calculated the total, but I figure if you can burn $1702 on a computer you could stand a few dollars more.

 

[slavadon]

TH article on OCing a 6300

I'm reading on tons of forums and OCing sites, including this one, that attempts to overclock a 6300 to an extreme degree (3.2+ GHz) are very successful. I find it unlikely that so many of these sites would be able to find a stabilized OC at 1 GHz + over the stock speed and yet be so unrepresentitive of the silent majority.

By the way, your link doesn't really prove your point... The people in those charts have an average gain of over 1 GHz on a stable 6300 OC. Only 2 are listed at under 2.8 GHz, what do you think the chances are that those are related to user error/desire rather than lack of chip capability?

Everything I've read suggests that 2.8 GHz is totally reasonable, if not underachieving. If you have any clue what you're doing and don't have absolutely horrible luck, 2.8 GHz should be fine. It's also cheap and supposedly about a month away from a price drop, making it even more appealing for OCing.

 

[NamelessMC]

You guys are completely missing the point.

He doesn't save ANY money going with a 6300.

You save $35 at the front, but if you EVER want to over-clock you need DDR800 ram to hit good speeds.

The 6400 on the other hand can reach 3.0 ghz with value DDR667 ram because of the higher multiplier and it'll still run really stable.

It's like you're trying to say a 6300 with good brand ram will be better than a 6400 with value ram, when it's 100% FALSE.

A 6400 with value ram will be cheaper, more stable and more capable than a 6300 with even the best DDR800 ram on the market.

 

[ReverendGadgetBoy]

You guys are completely missing the point.

He doesn't save ANY money going with a 6300.

You save $35 at the front, but if you EVER want to over-clock you need DDR800 ram to hit good speeds.

The 6400 on the other hand can reach 3.0 ghz with value DDR667 ram because of the higher multiplier and it'll still run really stable.

It's like you're trying to say a 6300 with good brand ram will be better than a 6400 with value ram, when it's 100% FALSE.

A 6400 with value ram will be cheaper, more stable and more capable than a 6300 with even the best DDR800 ram on the market.

Ok you really have no idea what your talking about. The site you linked to earlier has many instances of people reaching unbelievably high OCs with value RAM with the 6300. One person even achieved 3.7 with 667 RAM. I admit the higher multiplier is nice on the 6400, but it will only be necessary if he wants it for extreme OCing, in which case he'll need fast RAM anyways.

And your last statement is pure misinformation. "A 6400 with value ram will be cheaper, more stable and more capable than a 6300 with even the best DDR800 ram on the market." This is totally untrue. RAM makes a huge difference in OCing, and I would MUCH rather have the best 800 ram on the market than bad RAM and a SLIGHTLY faster proc. If you ask anyone they will tell you that Micron chips on your ram are necessary for large overclocks.

 

[NamelessMC]

I'm through arguing with you.

You just pick a processor and argue to the death for it just because it was your choice.

"Everyone should make the same choice as me! Even though there's people out there that spent 50-75$ less than me and are achieving better results! Do what I did!"

If you're not going to observe facts, then I have nothing to say.

Also that TH article is dated, since the 6400 they compared it to has 5 step even though most are 6 step now.

 

[ReverendGadgetBoy]

First off i would like to point out that your most recent post could be turned around the other way just as easily.

Also, many people posted in the middle of this argument, agreeing with my reasoning.

And try to stay away from bashing the person. I may have not been the best at this either, but here at THG we try to stay away from that and bash their argument instead.

Well truce then. We'll quit filling up this forum.

 

[MrLocoCoco]

btw sorry to MrLocoCoco for cluttering up his thread with this arguing. Just trying to help you out.

It's no problem lol, sorry to have started such a hostile thread tho :roll:

never skimp on the mobo, you need to purchase the Asus P5B-V DH DLX/HDMI GREEN, hopefully all the mobo you'll ever need for this generation of processors

I didn't think I was skimping on the mobo by buying the DS3, most people on these boards and anandtech's boards rave about how good it is for the price.