Hi everyone.

So my project is to build a complete system for myself for music production, general internet, and computer stuff.

I have quite specific needs, but I posted in the hope that some fellow noobs with similar needs might benefit from my hours and hours of research and any feedback I receive

The system has to include everything I need for a working production machine EXCEPT: mouse and keyboard, OS, and a sound card - I use external Audio interface (Edirol FA-101) for sound input and output.

requirements -
1) As close to $900 as possible

2) decent processing speed (at a good value) and Mobo - the funk factory needs a solid powerhouse.

3) a fair amount of ram - music production eats it up

4) Firewire : allow use of audio interface

5) Needn't be good for gaming. Thus I went for on-board video, I can always get a card later if i want to upgrade to CS:S

6) Needn't be good for overclocking - I need a quiet system and overclocking would necessitate more fans etc. That's why I went for the Gigabyte boards with on-board video (the models lacking this were much better for overclocking). If anyone thinks I should overclock in order to help my music production software then let me know why - so far as I can see, it would involve excessive fiddling about, noisy fans, and not for a massive increase in processing speed (I am upgrading from a recently dead Dell laptop with Pentium III and 512Megs of Ram and even that would render what I asked it to eventually).

Anyway, here are the two builds, please give me some feedback!!!


1. Intel build

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Conroe 2.13GHz 2M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819115004
$220

Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-965G-DS3 LGA 775 Intel G965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813128018
$135

Case and PSU - Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450Watt SmartPower 2.0 ATX 12V V2.0 for AMD & Intel systems Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/product/prod [...] 6811129155
$99

RAM: OCZ S.O.E 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820227118
$186

Video Card: none – onboard, upgrade later if it becomes necessary / desireable

CD/DVD drive: LG Black 18X DVD+R … 2M Cache IDE Super-Multi DVD Burner - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6827136103
$30

Floppy: MITSUMI Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive Model D359M3D/D359M3B - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/product/prod [...] 6821104101
$7

Firewire Card: SYBA PCI to Firewire 1394a 3+1 ports controller card Model SD-NEC-4F – Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6815124003
$10 (note the more expensive postage on the open box version!!!)

Monitor: 17” something-or-other
$100

HD – Storage: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822148140
$95

HD – Apps: Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JD 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive – OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822135106
$44

Total Price: $926



Athlon build

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2.0GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819103735
$135

Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-M55plus-S3G Socket AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813128010
$95

Case and PSU - Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450Watt SmartPower 2.0 ATX 12V V2.0 for AMD & Intel systems Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/product/prod [...] 6811129155
$99

RAM: Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820134046
$220

Video Card: none – onboard, upgrade later if it becomes necessary / desireable

CD/DVD drive: LG Black 18X DVD+R … 2M Cache IDE Super-Multi DVD Burner - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6827136103
$30

Floppy: MITSUMI Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive Model D359M3D/D359M3B - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/product/prod [...] 6821104101
$7

Monitor: 19” something or other
$150

HD – Storage: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822148140
$95

HD – Apps: Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JD 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive – OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822135106
$44

TOTAL PRICE: 875 (+p&p)


Processor choice based on best bang for your buck rating at: http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu. [...] &chart=195

All other choices made on basis of advice from another posting, or reading reviews on newegg - looking at products with a LOT of reviews - 5 stars from 13 people being less reliable than 4 starts from 145say.

ISSUES: (What I want advice about)

The Intel system is set to be more powerful, and much better at multi-tasking. However, it is slightly over-budget and I can only squeeze in a cheapo 17" monitor. The Mobo wont go to quad-core, I am not intending to make major upgrades on this in the near future. (maybe piecemeal sale-time additions of: a video card; extra HD's to make a RAID system etc.)

The Athlon set-up is less powerful for now, but they have just introduced AM2, so I thought in a year or two I can upgrade to an FX or whatever, and for now I can get a decent sized monitor and a system that will most probably serve my needs no problems.

Please fire away with comments, criticisms and (hopefully) suggestions about how to get more bang for my $900

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819115005

CPU - go with e6300
RAM - go with any brand name value DDR2-533
MOBOs with onboard video & ieee - see:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813130078 (4 back usb)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813121050 (6 back usb)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813121052 (6 back usb)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813121048 (6 back usb)

I suggest the 6400, it appears to be significantly faster for the audio encoding as well as for everything else. I would also suggest either the one of these mobo.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813121048
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813130078

I think $135 for a mobo with onboard video is a lot of money. The advantage of the Intel mobo is it has 3 PCI slots and both the Intel and MSI have onboard firewire, which gives you an extra $10 savings. The Intel mobo would be $25 less, $15 for the mobo and $10 for the card and would give you 2 free PCI slots given one will be taken with your audio card. The MSI mobo would give you an additional $20 savings but you'd lose a PCI slot, which would put you in the same situation with the Gigabyte mobo given one slot would be taken with you sound card and a 2nd with the firewire card. In addition, with the onboard firewire you would also have a front port. Even if you have to drop to a 17" from a 19" monitor, given what you have to do, I think it would be a reasonable trade off for thei increase in the CPU. Personally, I'd go with the Intel, which is more expandable with 3 PCI and 3 PCI Express x1

What software are you going to be using ?

Thank you very much for the advice everyone.

achilles and gandy I thought the (little bit extra) for the 6400 seemed worth it as i won't be overclocking (I am happy to go that much over budget). I will check out those mobo's. Do you think the savings merit the loss in GHz?

g-paw Yeah I thought the 6400 was worth the extra $30, given that I don't want to overclock and that it seems to be excellent for multi-tasking and audio tasks. I will not be using a PCI slot for a sound card (the audio interface serves as my sound card).

Johnny: I will be using Ableton and Reason (although I should really get onto using protools). I do very little synthesised / midi stuff, it's mostly all live instrumental recordings that I arrange and edit.

UPDATE: whoopsy just found this on spoofee -

XFX PVT73PUDJ3 GeForce 7600GS 256MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail

available from best buy for $70

http://www.buy.com/prod/XFX_GeForc [...] adid=17662

now that seems pretty cheap to me. given that it's $100 at New Egg. It also seems to run quiet, and should be fine for heat given that I will not be too demanding of it. I guess that means that I can go for the overclockable geoforce Mobo's, and that might just about even out cost-wise. Let's see (reaches for calculator)...

now that I found that cheap video card deal, I can go for a less expensive mobo of the same quality (minus the onboard graphics).I want a good quality, reliable and upgradable (moreso for AMD than for Intel) mobo.

For the Intel system:

GIGABYTE GA-965P-S3 LGA 775 Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813128017
at $109


This means that I save $25, and spend an extra $70 on video - total price difference: an increase of $45.

The intel system has a new total of $970 + p&p


I wasn't convinced by the reviews on many other Mobo's apart from the one suggested by g-paw - the Intel BOXDP965LTCK http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813121035

This was the same price, but had firewire, so I would save another $10, making the alternative total $960 + p&p

It also gives me the option of not getting the video card at all, leaving a possible low cost of $890 - the best I have acheived for the Intel system so far! Nice thinking g-paw. Now do i want to upgrade to CS:S or not...

And for the AMD [b], i think this looks a better mobo (for only slightly more money): GIGABYTE GA-M57SLI-S4 Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail at $119, so that's a $14 increase, added to the $70 card, is $84 up, making the [b] new total $959 +p&p

So both systems have gotten more expensive, but the price gap between them has been significantly reduced. Any thoughts?

Of these 2 mobo I would go with the Intel because of the onboard firewire. If you get the Sonata II case, it has a front firewre connection so with the Intel you could have both front and rear connection.

Ok so here is the final project - just to have it clearly listed.

1. Intel build

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Conroe 2.13GHz 2M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819115004
$220

Mobo: Intel BOXDP965LTCK LGA 775 Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813121035
$109

RAM: Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820134384
$195 (dropped OCZ, due to voltage worry on Intel Mobo)

Video Card: XFX PVT73PUDJ3 GeForce 7600GS 256MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
http://www.buy.com/prod/XFX_GeForc [...] ...rd_Dual
$60 (at best buy with new google user discount - see spoofee.com a few days ago)

Case and PSU - Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450Watt SmartPower 2.0 ATX 12V V2.0 for AMD & Intel systems Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/product/prod [...] 6811129155
$99

CD/DVD drive: LG Black 18X DVD+R … 2M Cache IDE Super-Multi DVD Burner - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6827136103
$30

Floppy: MITSUMI Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive Model D359M3D/D359M3B - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/product/prod [...] 6821104101
$7

Monitor: 17” something-or-other
$100

HD – Storage: [b] Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822148140
$95

[b]HD – Apps: Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JD 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive – OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822135106
$44


TOAL PRICE: $959

IT all looks good however I would seriously consider dropping the 667 for some 533 since you aren't overclocking. Would knock $20 or so off your budget - not a lot but every little bit helps!

I think most people here over-estimate the importance of raw CPU power. I'd dump the graphics card (you really don't need it) stick with the gigabyte S3G & x2 3800, and spend the money on a second big hard drive (OS & apps on the small one, one big one for data and the other for backups and scratch disks). Or maybe more memory.

errr, Real time audio and synthesis loves raw cpu power.
When working with audio you really don't want to be going over 70% usage.

Looks good. Like I said in an early post, when you have the money I'd get an hdd and enclosure for an external drive but then when it comes of to data, especially music, I'm certifiably paranoid.

A question... you plan on using onboard sound for a music production system? I would think the sound card would be one of the most important components here....

With audio processing or other uses, do you use any digital memory cards? If so. for ony $12 more you can swap the Mitsumi floppy for a Mitsumi combined floppy and digital memory reader.
This is a small increase that provides more flexibility.

http://www.newegg.com/product/prod [...] 6821104104

I know you won't listen but I'll throw out the option of getting an Intel-powered Mac Mini and a couple of FireWire drives for storage space.

You can get Live and Reason for OS X, and if you don't want Mac OS you can run it as a PC through bootcamp. Chuck in as much RAM as you can afford, and the CPUs are plenty powerful enough for 'real' recording.

The only time you really need CPU is for running masses of plugins, and if you say you're doing instrument recordings rather than synthesized sounds then just go for quick disks and a lot of RAM.

If you go for a PC, just get the cheapest Core 2. You need nothing more powerful.

I would certainly go for the Mini - it's plenty powerful and is silent and small to boot.

[quote="rockyjohn"]With audio processing or other uses, do you use any digital memory cards? If so. for ony $12 more you can swap the Mitsumi floppy for a Mitsumi combined floppy and digital memory reader.
This is a small increase that provides more flexibility.

http://www.newegg.com/product/prod [...] 6821104104[/quote


http://forumz.tomshardware.com/har [...] 16#1447116
] Thanks, didn't know they made these