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HDTV picture quality

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Anonymous
April 24, 2004 7:11:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Hi,

I need some advice.

I just bought a 50" Hitachi Ultravision HDTV (50V500). I also subscribed to
Rogers HDTV. I find the picture quality for the 19 HDTV channels very good.
I am less enthused with the digital channels, and much less with the analog
channels. I find these, especially the analog ones to be very choppy. For
example if I watch a hockey game, on either the analog or digital stations,
all the straight lines (like the top of the boards, the blue line, a hockey
stick) have zig-zags or like saw teeth in them.

I thought this was my Rogers signal being too weak. The Rogers guy came,
checked the signal at the box and said it was quite good. Nevertheless, he
replaced a splitter with a "better" one, installed a booster, and said the
signal could not be improved and that he thought it was "good". I find it's
still awful, at least for the digital and analog channels. I find my 27"
CRT TV looks better (analog).

No doubt the size of the HDTV has something to do with it. It's 50", not
27", so any imperfections are accentuated. BUT, this is an expensive TV
with a lot of potential, and I expected better. I hate to think I will have
to dedicate this TV only to DVDs and HDTV, and watch hockey games on my
smaller 27" TV.

Any suggestions? I was wondering if the TV is defective in some way, any
thoughts? It does look reasonable (although not great) on some DVDs, great
on others; I guess it depends on the quality of the DVD. HDTV stations are
excellent. As for the digital stations being not so good, I guess digital
may mean that only the transmission of the signal is digital and that the
source was analog. So garbage in, garbage out.

I can watch the digital stations through S-Video, Composite, or Component.
The Rogers guy said that I would get a better picture for the digital
stations if I don't go through Component, and leave Component only for the
HDTV channels. I think he may be right. When I compare the digital
stations when looking at them through Composite video and then S-Video, I
find no difference, but the TV store tells me I should use Composite video
for these stations because if I use S-Video, I'm bypassing the TV's filters,
which will result in a more choppy picture. Any thoughts?

The analog stations look much better on Antenna input than any other type of
cable.

By the way, I used Monster cable all through the system.

Thanks for any advice, and hopefully solutions.

More about : hdtv picture quality

Anonymous
April 24, 2004 7:11:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Trust your eyes, not the salesman. BTW, from my experience with my own set
I'd also say the cable tech was right.
YMMV

"D. Roy" <dgroy*nospam*@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:isvic.143$2A3.106@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> Hi,
>

> I can watch the digital stations through S-Video, Composite, or Component.
> The Rogers guy said that I would get a better picture for the digital
> stations if I don't go through Component, and leave Component only for the
> HDTV channels. I think he may be right. When I compare the digital
> stations when looking at them through Composite video and then S-Video, I
> find no difference, but the TV store tells me I should use Composite video
> for these stations because if I use S-Video, I'm bypassing the TV's
filters,
> which will result in a more choppy picture. Any thoughts?
>
> The analog stations look much better on Antenna input than any other type
of
> cable.
>
Anonymous
April 25, 2004 3:25:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"D. Roy" <dgroy*nospam*@rogers.com> wrote in
news:isvic.143$2A3.106@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:

> Hi,
>
> I need some advice.
>
> I just bought a 50" Hitachi Ultravision HDTV (50V500). I also
> subscribed to Rogers HDTV. I find the picture quality for the 19 HDTV
> channels very good. I am less enthused with the digital channels, and
> much less with the analog channels. I find these, especially the
> analog ones to be very choppy. For example if I watch a hockey game,
> on either the analog or digital stations, all the straight lines (like
> the top of the boards, the blue line, a hockey stick) have zig-zags or
> like saw teeth in them.
>
> I thought this was my Rogers signal being too weak. The Rogers guy
> came, checked the signal at the box and said it was quite good.
> Nevertheless, he replaced a splitter with a "better" one, installed a
> booster, and said the signal could not be improved and that he thought
> it was "good". I find it's still awful, at least for the digital and
> analog channels. I find my 27" CRT TV looks better (analog).
>
> No doubt the size of the HDTV has something to do with it. It's 50",
> not 27", so any imperfections are accentuated. BUT, this is an
> expensive TV with a lot of potential, and I expected better. I hate
> to think I will have to dedicate this TV only to DVDs and HDTV, and
> watch hockey games on my smaller 27" TV.

There are a number of factors that may influence this. If you're
connecting to your TV's component inputs, then you need to know exactly
what the cable box puts out for SDTV analog and digital signals. That
may be controllable in the box's own onscreen firmware. I can't really
tell you about Rogers because I get my feed from Star Choice and my TV is
only 27." But, BECAUSE my TV can do 1080i in a "letterbox" format by
scanning only part of the screen, that's what I set for my default
output. My receiver, however, has a 4:3 override setting that affects
the SDTV digital signals from the satellite. By setting that to 480p, I
get essentially a progressive scan 480-line output from the box. My TV
line-doubles that, so the picture is pretty well seamless except for a
few artifacts such as those you mention on near-horizontal edges. I'm
not sure there is any REALLY good way to eliminate these aliasing
artifacts. They are even there (but not nearly as visible) in my cheap
old 20" analog TV that has only a composite input. The better your
setup, the more you will see certain artifacts in SDTV signals, both
digital and analog. It's part of the price you pay for all that HD
capability and the only reason you're seeing it is because your TV
doesn't mask it.

> Any suggestions? I was wondering if the TV is defective in some way,
> any thoughts? It does look reasonable (although not great) on some
> DVDs, great on others; I guess it depends on the quality of the DVD.
> HDTV stations are excellent. As for the digital stations being not so
> good, I guess digital may mean that only the transmission of the
> signal is digital and that the source was analog. So garbage in,
> garbage out.

Yep...spent most of yesterday afternoon grinding my teeth about an off-
focus camera in Camden Yards in Baltimore!


--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667

Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
Related resources
Anonymous
April 26, 2004 1:08:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"D. Roy" <dgroy*nospam*@rogers.com> wrote in
news:KJVic.6925$swh.6161@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:

> Thanks This does help a lot.
>
> I'm not too concerned about burn in. This HDTV is a rear projection
> LCD, the technology cannot result in burn in. In fact, I purposely
> chose this type of projection system to ensure my kids would not burn
> in the screen when playing x-box.
>
> For the digital stations I use an input other than my input 1 which a
> reserve for HDTV-only viewing (much like you it sounds like) and which
> is connected to the Rogers box with component cables. This other
> input that I use for the digital and timeshifting stations is
> connected with S-Video, but what do you think about this argument that
> you should use composite and not S-Video, since S-Video bypasses the
> TV's noise filters?

Component is best. S-Video is 2nd best and composite is low man on the
totem pole. The reason composite video NEEDS the fancy comb filter is to
try to help the separation of chroma from luminance. S-Video does not
have this problem as they are transmitted separately. Similarly
component video does not have it as even the chroma is broken into
separate color signals.

> Also, for the analog stations, although I could watch them on the same
> video input that I use for the digital stations, I find the reception
> is better when I look at them through the Antenna input.

That's probably just adding noise, which is one way to make a poor signal
look a bit better.


--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667

Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
Anonymous
April 26, 2004 9:24:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"D. Roy" <dgroy*nospam*@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:isvic.143$2A3.106@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> Hi,
>
> I need some advice.
>
> I just bought a 50" Hitachi Ultravision HDTV (50V500). I also subscribed
to
> Rogers HDTV. I find the picture quality for the 19 HDTV channels very
good.
> I am less enthused with the digital channels, and much less with the
analog
> channels. I find these, especially the analog ones to be very choppy.
For
> example if I watch a hockey game, on either the analog or digital
stations,
> all the straight lines (like the top of the boards, the blue line, a
hockey
> stick) have zig-zags or like saw teeth in them.
>
I have a 50" Sony Grand Wega LCD (KF50WE610) also hooked up to Rogers HDTV.
While watching SD hockey I don't get a zig-zags patterns but I do get
shimmering along the boards. I must say after seeing a couple of HD hockey
games it only amplifies how horrible SD hockey is on these (LCD and probably
DLP) sets.

> No doubt the size of the HDTV has something to do with it. It's 50", not
> 27", so any imperfections are accentuated. BUT, this is an expensive TV
> with a lot of potential, and I expected better. I hate to think I will
have
> to dedicate this TV only to DVDs and HDTV, and watch hockey games on my
> smaller 27" TV.
>
I saw what analog looked like before purchasing mine so I knew what to
expect but it's still hard to get use to.

> Any suggestions? I was wondering if the TV is defective in some way, any
> thoughts? It does look reasonable (although not great) on some DVDs,
great
> on others; I guess it depends on the quality of the DVD. HDTV stations
are
> excellent. As for the digital stations being not so good, I guess digital
> may mean that only the transmission of the signal is digital and that the
> source was analog. So garbage in, garbage out.
>
I doubt very much your TV is defective. If possible try to see the same
model at a store showing a SD hockey game to see if the PQ is the same.

> I can watch the digital stations through S-Video, Composite, or Component.
> The Rogers guy said that I would get a better picture for the digital
> stations if I don't go through Component, and leave Component only for the
> HDTV channels. I think he may be right. When I compare the digital
> stations when looking at them through Composite video and then S-Video, I
> find no difference, but the TV store tells me I should use Composite video
> for these stations because if I use S-Video, I'm bypassing the TV's
filters,
> which will result in a more choppy picture. Any thoughts?
>
As far as hook-up goes, I split the signal with one to the TV antenna input
for Analog and the other to the SA 3250HD STB for HD and find that Analog is
clearer using this method.
!