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More info?)
"Shoetcase" - it's another, fairly recent, ill-educated Southern thing.
STUPID is now universally said as SHTUPID, and in fact applies to most words
beginning "ST (vowel)"
A similar (Southern) anomoly is that, almost without exception, most words
ending in "T" are now spoken with the final "t" missing.
I'm just a few years younger than you, NO advanced education after grammar
school, just a graduate of the university of life. I speak with a Northern
accent, modified by 40+ years living in/close to London. Despite that, I
occasionally use my 40-year-old French when on the Continent, was amazed to
be told that I spoke French in a pure French accent (pity my vocabulary is
so limited).
However, I had darn good English teachers (one English, the other Scottish,
both Oxford MA's) and a life-long passion for reading.
PS wouldn't dream of setting myself up as a custodian of the English
language, nor criticise incorrect grammar or usage in a "put-down" way. I
leave that to the bug, but I am pleased that her adversarial contributions
have ceased since she has been adequately and comprehensively squashed on
the point she set herself up as the final arbiter. "Fora" indeed!!
Sincerely, Len
"johnf" <john_f@bigpond.net.a> wrote in message
news:%23lTYt6RDFHA.148@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Yep, I agree with all that, my reference to 'The Bill' was not to do with
> rhyming slang - which I normally have no problem with, more so to do with
> the speed at which they speak (or mumble) the odd dialect.
> At 70 yrs.+, My brain probably doesn't absorb as fast any more
>
> Funnily, my wife was Dutch & I lived & worked there for 10 years, but
> never had any reason to contemplate which 'brand' of English was taught at
> school (incidently, English was completely banned during WW2 by the
> Germans, naturally, which put all Dutch falling into that age/schooling
> group at a disadavantage).
> The only clue I've been able to pick up was that my son once correcting
> the English teacher who pronounced 'suitcase' as "shoetcase" - (that's the
> closest I can get to the teacher's pronunciation).
>
> --
>
> johnf
>
>> John - understanding The Bill (allegedly, Cockney English?) The BBC did
>> a course in Cockney rhyming slang, for "Eastenders", for the Americans.
>> The trick is knowing phrase origins, since "rhyming" is often a
>> misnomer in actual Cockney-speak.
>> Examples - "going up the apples", originates from "apples and pears" =
>> stairs (so translates to "going upstairs") "Me farmers are playing me
>> up" - "farmers" = Farmer Giles, = piles (haemorrhoids, US hemorrhoids)
>> so "my piles are painful" altho I prefer the idiomatic "playing me up",
>> it's more emotive. (yeah, have probs!)
>>
>> A real quirk, constantly used - ".....pain in the 'arris".
>> 'Arris = "Aristotle", rhyme for "bottle", shortened from "bottle and
>> glass", so actual meaning, "pain in the arse" (US, ass). There's an
>> English "North/South divide" with pronunciation.
>>
>> Spoken in the South, "glass" is pronounced "glarse". "butter" as
>> "batter" ...I'm a Northerner living in the South. I take a bath, not a
>> "barth". (hard a, as in "cat").
>>
>> Just be glad that you're not watching TV detective "Taggart". It's
>> based in Glasgow, primarily Glaswegian actors. Trying to cope with the
>> very thick accent AND Scots dialect words... it's another language.
>> And, for utterly complete incomprehensibility - Geordie (Newcastle
>> dialect)? GBH on the eardrums!
>>
>> Learning English, real problem is not vocabulary, but the spoken form.
>> Germans and the French have great difficulty with "W" words (Germans
>> make "we", "vee", the French, "zee") because the "We" vocal sound
>> doesn't exist in their language. How much more difficult for non-Aryan
>> races? Same problem in reverse for Brits learning other languages.
>>
>> All Scandinavia, Belgium and Holland are mainly multi-lingual. English
>> as a second language is often taught from primary school. Belgium and
>> Holland are routinely tri-lingual, which makes practical sense when you
>> look at their geography. One Belgian co-worker I know was fluent in 6
>> languages.
>> Purest spoken English I ever heard was from groups of people (not one
>> individual) from Sweden and Holland - flawless, fluent, not a trace of
>> accent. The "Queen's English" (used to be BBC English) - defined as
>> "English as spoken by the educated Southern gentleman".
>>
>> Regards, Len.
>>
>> "johnf" <john_f@bigpond.net.a> wrote in message
>> news:%23ipGlkPDFHA.3376@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>> What can I say? I wonder how the Japanese learn their English, with
>>> which most non-rural people are now very fluent - probably as a
>>> compulsory school course - but to what or who's standard??
>>> Find that out & you'll probably have an answer,
>>> Geez, I live in OZ, can converse or write in slanguage or correct
>>> English, American, Canadian etc., understand 100% in any of those,
>>> but sometimes get lost trying to follow some of the dialogues on TV in
>>> "The Bill"
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> johnf
>>>
>>>> Hi John,
>>>>
>>>> I wish I still had the AVI files that I had to transcribe. It was a
>>>> public broadcast program within England about usage of computers being
>>>> introduced into schools throughout London. Several of the interviews
>>>> were with teachers, parents and lots of students, especially those in
>>>> kindengarden and middleschool. This was about 4 to 4 and half years
>>>> ago. They showed it on Japanese TV, but needed all the interviews and
>>>> stuff transcribed so the translaters could put up the subtitles or do
>>>> the dubbing.
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> "johnf" <john_f@bigpond.net.a> wrote in message
>>>> news:%23$hdnSPDFHA.1012@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Sorry to butt in, but please post a few examples for fun & let's see
>>>>> if we can sort this discrepancy out a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> johnf
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting insights you provided with your information. I used to
>>>>>> have a hard copy dictionary around, but it was too big to keep
>>>>>> lugging around, especially when moving to another country. I now
>>>>>> use web based dictionaries and noticed how each reacts to word
>>>>>> searches. I don`t know if the online site I`m using is British
>>>>>> English or American English. I know us Americans can easily
>>>>>> slaughter a written language, but I think the Brits in London are
>>>>>> slaughtering the spoken language.
>>>>>> I did some transcribing work for a little while, had to transcribe
>>>>>> some video images of interviews in London, and I being a native
>>>>>> English speaker (used to different accents of English as well,
>>>>>> British, Scottish, Indian, European, etc) couldn`t beleive what was
>>>>>> being said out of the peoples mouths. I know we Americans sometimes
>>>>>> have some strong accents when speaking, but I couldn`t beleive what
>>>>>> was being spoken from these Brits was English. Anyway, sorry to
>>>>>> waste more of your time, just wanted to thank you for the insight.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:OhHRhzoCFHA.624@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> PS That MS UK dictionary which is what Australians get.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
http://www.uscricket.com
>>>>>> "David Candy" <.> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:%23nHw6voCFHA.2960@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> This is a MS newsgroup. Who gives a F what webster, oxford, or
>>>>>> Macquarrie thinks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is what MS says
>>>>>>
>>>>>> forum
>>>>>>
>>>>>> forum fo$B!V(Brem or f$BO$(B,
>>>>>> noun originally a market-place, especially that in Rome where public
>>>>>> business was transacted and justice dispensed; the courts of law as
>>>>>> opposed to Parliament (rare); a meeting to discuss topics of public
>>>>>> concern; a publication, regular meeting, etc serving as a medium for
>>>>>> debate: fo'rums or fo'ra plural.
>>>>>> [Latin forum, related to foras out of doors]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (c) Larousse plc. All rights reserved
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MS uses The Chambers Dictionary is the product of a long line of
>>>>>> dictionary-making. With the publication of each succeeding edition,
>>>>>> the dictionary$BCT(B editors have kept abreast of the contemporary
>>>>>> changes
>>>>>> in the language and the requirements of its users. For the current
>>>>>> edition, careful attention has been taken to ensure that the
>>>>>> language and requirements of the 1990s are well served.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Hertigage Illustrated Dictionary of the English Language:
>>>>>> International Edition (Americian Hertigage Publishing Company:1975)
>>>>>> says pretty much the same as MS. They note where usuage is not
>>>>>> common to ALL english and americian speaking countries. They make
>>>>>> no mention of any country specific notes. So both are correct in
>>>>>> all countries. EG for Petrol that say Chiefly British - means
>>>>>> gasoline (whatever that is - I suppose it must be petrol - dunno
>>>>>> the dictionary doesn't say gasoline is petrol, it says it's GAS +
>>>>>> OL + INE) --
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
http://www.uscricket.com
>>>>>> "Yabbadoo" <lsdolby@ignore.ntlwor.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:BdCMd.695$RF4.624@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
>>>>>>> Will, do you actually HAVE a Webster's, or is your knowledge, like
>>>>>>> mine, general knowledge? (I know a bit about Webster 'cos I was
>>>>>>> reading about his
>>>>>>> work a while ago. I enjoy words, and tracing their origins). If so,
>>>>>>> please look up "Forum" - I'd like to know HIS spelling/definition
>>>>>>> of the plural (i.e whether he has both forms) - it's bugging me!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As you know I'm a Brit, but worked for US multinationals for best
>>>>>>> part of 35
>>>>>>> years. It plays havoc, occasionally, with my spelling. It's only in
>>>>>>> very recent times that a few US and English spellings have become
>>>>>>> acceptably interchangeable in written English (but missing "u"'
>>>>>>> words are still a no-no - "benefitted", in particular, springs to
>>>>>>> mind.) Just noticed is 03.45 - time for bed! .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, Len
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Will Denny" <willdenny@mvps.org> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:OrHRdemCFHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>> Curious - as you say. As a norm Webster seems to have omitted a
>>>>>>>> few letters along the way - including a lot of 'u's!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Will Denny
>>>>>>>> MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
>>>>>>>> Please reply to the News Groups
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Yabbadoo" <lsdolby@ignore.ntlwor.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:b3AMd.1057$SC2.113@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>>>>>>>>> Before you leap on it, there's another typo in my post 4 Feb
>>>>>>>>> (thread "re CalcPlus") - missed the "r" in "comfortable". Need to
>>>>>>>>> service my keyboard, keys getting sticky, also late at night -
>>>>>>>>> again..
>>>>>>>>> Plus - you might note that, in the post I was replying to, BAR
>>>>>>>>> used the word "benefited".
>>>>>>>>> That's the English spelling. American spelling is "benefitted".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Aren't dictionaries wonderful sources of information? (well,
>>>>>>>>> English ones, anyway). Unlikely that Webster would give a
>>>>>>>>> non-American alternative, given his documented/published
>>>>>>>>> objective in compiling it was
>>>>>>>>> to "simplify" English for an exclusively American readership##.
>>>>>>>>> Curiously, many of his "simplifications" removed (what he deemed
>>>>>>>>> to be) superfluous letters - in "benefitted" he added one!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ##( I don't possess a Webster's, this is conjecture on my part).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apols for typo. Len.
>
>
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