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What gets released first.. AMD Barcelona or Intel's Penryn

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What gets released first.. AMD Barcelona or Intel''s Pernryn

Total: 77 votes

  • Intel''s 45 nano meter Core2Due follow on
  • 36 %
  • Amd''s 65 Nano Barcelona
  • 42 %
  • The \"loser\" will paper launch within days (hours) of the winner of the race...
  • 24 %
January 16, 2007 2:54:45 AM

AMD's Barcelona has been demoed (kinda) running task manager.

But Intel's 45 nano Penryn is also up and running.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5657

Which chip do you think will actually be released first?
January 16, 2007 2:57:39 AM

Quote:
AMD's Barcelona has been demoed (kinda) running task manager.

But Intel's 45 nano Penryn is also up and running.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5657

Which chip do you think will actually be released first?


Neither, Via's C3000 will beat them all!! Long Live VIA!!1one
January 16, 2007 3:02:47 AM

Quote:
Neither, Via's C3000 will beat them all!! Long Live VIA!!1one


HELL YEAH!! I would love to see via release a cpu that stomps intel and amd procs into the ground, sadly i dont see it happening.

I would say Penryn will be out first, intel is going to fight like hell to stay on top this time around.
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January 16, 2007 3:17:51 AM

not to hijack or anything... but apt aren't you the one that had "My soon to be comp" in your sig forever? did you get it finally?
January 16, 2007 3:19:17 AM

Barcelona, surely. 45nm is demoed, but not in production. The Barcelona architecture is being worked out and the 65nm process is being proven and tested in the Athlon 64s now.

Just seems to me like Barcelona will reach the market quite a bit ahead.
January 16, 2007 3:22:31 AM

I dont think Intel wants to kill their core productions and convert the 65nm fabs into trash that fast just to trow out penryn for fanboys..

money guys remember.. for companies MONEY FIRST, fanboys LATER.
January 16, 2007 3:23:58 AM

Quote:
not to hijack or anything... but apt aren't you the one that had "My soon to be comp" in your sig forever? did you get it finally?


Yeah, i had that im my sig for a month or two. My pc is kinda built, no case yet, and ive only done a little stability testing so far. When i get my case it'll become my main computer (my main one right now is a macbook.). I used some of my budget on CD's and upgrades to a couple of my mac's, so i couldnt get the case with the rest of my stuff. After my Tuniq Tower 120 comes in to replace my scythe infinity i might order the case.
January 16, 2007 3:56:50 AM

AMD's Barcelona will come out first I recon. I doubt Intel is really worried about beating Barcelona to market with Penryn.
January 16, 2007 4:11:41 AM

You never did tell me if you would marry me or not... :x
-cm
January 16, 2007 4:15:37 AM

Quote:
You never did tell me if you would marry me or not... :x
-cm


Have you found the secrect message yet?
January 16, 2007 4:24:43 AM

<cocks eyebrow>
-cm
January 16, 2007 4:34:28 AM

Quote:
AMD's Barcelona will come out first I recon. I doubt Intel is really worried about beating Barcelona to market with Penryn.


I voted Intel because of their resources, but I see your point. Why run when you're a mile ahead?
January 16, 2007 5:29:05 AM

This is the way I see it.

Barcelona quad for servers is released first. Then the follow on Conroe replacement Wolfdale arrives about 1 month later. 2 weeks after that the dual core desktop version of Barcelona comes out.

Availability: Barcelona is not a paper launch but very limited availability

Wolfdale comes out with about the same force as the Conroe did.

Barcelona 2 core arrives with higher availability than the quad core version unless they disable 2 cores of the Quad core version and sell it as a 2 core version.
January 16, 2007 6:12:28 AM

Bah! Conjecture, conjecture. It's all moot.
-cm
January 16, 2007 7:04:09 AM

Barcelona is going to compete with the Kentsfield and Yorkfield quad cores from Intel.

The Athena dual core based on teh Barcelona will be competing with Conroe and Yorkfield.
January 16, 2007 7:19:13 AM

Well at the moment they don't have a mid range to high end part that does compete the Conroe.

The Athena processor I believe is the code name for the cut down Barcelona that will be AMD's answer to the Conroe processor.
January 16, 2007 7:33:53 AM

Barcelona is the new AMD core otherwise known as the K8L
January 16, 2007 7:42:34 AM

Right now that is about the only thing they can do. When the E4300 launches that is going to cause AMD to drop prices again. If the performance hit that they took in Q4 continues in the much slower Q1 with them already announcing price cuts then I'm thinking they might be going back into the Red unless ATI can prop them up but it is looking like ATI won't be helping them in Q1 because the R600 has pushed out its launch until the end of Q1.
January 16, 2007 7:58:19 AM

If Barcelona lives up to its hype then they will have something that will compete against the 5300 series of Xeon's. This just wont happen if they can't get their 65nm process down. The Barcelona might be the best CPU design since slice bread. Yes, I know I mixing my metaphors. :)  Bu t if they can't produce the Brisbanes in volume, then as each week goes by were we don't see any of the Brisbane cores I'm going to say there will be a week by week push of significant Barcelona production.

Also, remember that the Barcelona core is over 200mm, that just reduces their production numbers both because of the limited number you can fit on a wafer and the yield issue is going to affect them worse than Intel. Intel will always be able to produce more Quad core processors per wafer because they will be able to produce a higher number of good parts per wafter because they parts are starting out smaller.

I mean you can't tell me that AMD can't make put to X2 parts together and make quad core that way. They already have the HT links to do that with and the latency thing seen with the 4x4 would be greatly reduced. I don't know if it is pride and all the bull about Intel's clued together approach has painted them into a corner or just a limitation in their processor packaging technology.

Okay, I got my venting done. :) 
January 16, 2007 10:51:44 AM

I think Barcelona will be released before Penryn, by 1/2 to 1 full quarter.

I have a feeling AMD will enjoy the shortest reign as performance king in CPU history, who knows. :wink:
January 16, 2007 12:50:03 PM

If the last rumors about the A0 Penryn booting Windows are true, then Penryn is very likely that will appear on the market before K8L.
I think that K8L has no theoretical chances to outperform Penryn. Basicly, clock for clock, one will be marginaly faster than the other, but Penryn will be clocked much higher. I also think that Penryn will be faster clock for clock, but who knows.
January 16, 2007 5:45:10 PM

I do not believe that Barcelona will give AMD the performance crown. Remember it is only another revision of K8. I fear that AMD is making the mistake of sticking with an architecture too long, such as Intel stuck with NetBurst too long. K8 has been an excellent architecture, but it's time for AMD to move on and redesign not rework an architecture.
January 16, 2007 11:36:57 PM

Redesigning new architechure (spelling?) is remarkable for the expense involved. AMD is trying to save money methinks, hoping that they can eek the last squeeze of performance from the K8.
-cm
January 16, 2007 11:51:30 PM

Quote:
Redesigning new architechure (spelling?) is remarkable for the expense involved. AMD is trying to save money methinks, hoping that they can eek the last squeeze of performance from the K8.
-cm


AMD is looking to improve IPC efficiency, not overcome Intel's architecture. I really could care less which one comes out first. Since they were said to be running at about 2.2 IPC, if they can increase that to 2.7 (do we HAVE TO go through this again), then that translates into a nice increase in BIPS.

They don't have to be faster than Intel for at least 2 more years based on the "NetBurst Era." I can't wait until Barcelona sticks its head back up. We should at least get a clock speed and a "real" bench or two.

I expect better than 70% better than Opteron just because of the extra cores. There are FOUR now. With the additional "ambiguation" and dedicated stack and 2x128bit loads, 2x128 bit SSE4A, etc WOW, who knows what that thing will do at 2.5GHz whenever it comes out.
January 17, 2007 12:04:39 AM

You realize that Intel is about, oh, 10x as large as AMD, and therefore, AMD cannot afford to be behind as long as Intel was with Netburst?
January 17, 2007 12:39:10 AM

Quote:
I think Barcelona will be released before Penryn, by 1/2 to 1 full quarter.

I have a feeling AMD will enjoy the shortest reign as performance king in CPU history, who knows. :wink:


Perhaps --- I will predict Barcelona will be a quarter late, and if Penryn does beat it to market, will be a dollar short for the performance crown.

You don't seem too confident on AMD delivering Barcelona on time Jack. Is this based on history of prior AMD delays or is the 65nm process the real issue here?
January 17, 2007 12:41:09 AM

I think AMD is trying to be the "small nimble competitor" from the Dilber comic strip, but that they have lost thier nimbleness to the big lumbering giant for the moment. Sad.
-cm
January 17, 2007 12:42:58 AM

Quote:
You realize that Intel is about, oh, 10x as large as AMD, and therefore, AMD cannot afford to be behind as long as Intel was with Netburst?


Indeed. The 'new' AMD, with a reputation for high performance, cannot survive 3 years of mediocrity. It doesn't have the market penetration of Intel or the 'brand name' that Intel has.

AMD could of course survive as a 2nd tier CPU supplier like old times, but that does us enthusiasts no good at all.

I'll be damned if AMD cannot catch up to Intel in the next 3 years, we need solid competition in a 2 horse race.
January 17, 2007 1:59:29 AM

Quote:
AMD's Barcelona has been demoed (kinda) running task manager.

But Intel's 45 nano Penryn is also up and running.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5657

Which chip do you think will actually be released first?


Oh come on,

4x4 = paper launch
65nm = paper launch
R600 = delayed till mid-March
K8L = ???
January 17, 2007 2:26:08 AM

Quote:
I think Barcelona will be released before Penryn, by 1/2 to 1 full quarter.

I have a feeling AMD will enjoy the shortest reign as performance king in CPU history, who knows. :wink:


Perhaps --- I will predict Barcelona will be a quarter late, and if Penryn does beat it to market, will be a dollar short for the performance crown.

You don't seem too confident on AMD delivering Barcelona on time Jack. Is this based on history of prior AMD delays or is the 65nm process the real issue here?

No I am not..... for a simple reason, AMD has a history of screwing up big launches and delaying them. K6 was on time, K7 was delayed, K8 was delayed, AM2 was essentially on time (just an IMC change) but Socket F was delayed.... AMD has a history of pushing out.... not that this is a bad thing --- I would prefer a company get it right rather than rush to market.

65 nm has plenty of time between now and Barcelona launch to shore up -- it looks sickly now, but in a few months will be humming along I suspect.

Yeah, what Jack said. Intel is simply on a tear right now and if it's in their grasp to release Penryn before Barcelona...you bet the'll step on the gas to do it. So, I voted Penryn before Barcelona.
January 17, 2007 4:50:17 AM

Quote:
If the last rumors about the A0 Penryn booting Windows are true, then Penryn is very likely that will appear on the market before K8L.
I think that K8L has no theoretical chances to outperform Penryn. Basicly, clock for clock, one will be marginaly faster than the other, but Penryn will be clocked much higher. I also think that Penryn will be faster clock for clock, but who knows.


The rumors are indeed true, Intel put as top bullet highlights that Penryn booted XP, Vista, Linux, and Mac OSX on first silicon:
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/Penryn-fact-boo...

It is not looking good for AMD this year.

For what it is worth, The Inquirer ran a story 18 months back on Intels 45 nano claiming amazing things from the process...

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=25512

Intel 45 nanometre process is good to go
Leakage problem solved

By Charlie Demerjian: Thursday 18 August 2005, 13:54

EARLIER WE POINTED OUT that the 45nm shrink of Merom is going to be called Penryn, the Moldavian term for moldy Apple(1). The interesting thing is not about the chip itself, but the process. Since the 65nm process is on the verge of release, it means that this coming IDF, they will probably start talking about the 45nm process.
Think happy thoughts here people, from what several sources have told the INQ, the leakage problem is solved, and I mean solved, not lessened. This will be a massive gain for Intel, and unless AMD and IBM can match it, it will pretty much hand it the mobile space, not to mention anything else where power matters.

From what we have been told, the 65nm process is better than 90nm in leakage, but it is an advance, not an answer by any means. Sadly, the process breakthroughs can't be backported to 65 in a way that would do the same there. There are some other 45nm breakthroughs, and I am not using that word in lightly, in the yield area that will get sucked into 65nm. Expect improvements on this process over time, and then a huge leap at 45.

What does this mean? It means that until 45nm, Yonah will survive, the power draw of Merom is a little high for most low power laptop configs. Merom will get to 9W in a ULV dual core part, but Yonah is down at 5.5W, single core though. When Penryn hits, expect the power draw on the low end to go way down, and Yonah to be laid to rest.

So, if you hear gushingly good things about 45nm coming from IDF, believe it. If you hear anyone pooh-poohing Intel and its process tech because of the debacle that was 90nm, just point and laugh. This one will be very very good. ยต

(1) I completely made that up, but do read a little into it.
January 17, 2007 4:58:17 AM

I almost started to look up what Penryn really meant, and I hoped it wasn't moldy Apple. LOL

You have a point, though. Apple would LOOOVE the 45nm CPU, especially if the power consumption is as low as the 18 month Inq. claims. That would be a huge boost to Apple's iTV or whatever it's called, and even it's Mac and laptop lines.

I would love to see this CPU in action, but I doubt I can get a pass to where ever it's being held to watch it run it's paces. I can make calls though...LOL. I still do know people up in Oregon. :D 
January 17, 2007 5:00:14 AM

The next IDF is supposed to happen in Shanghai China. There is no plan that I have heard for a IDF in the States this year.
January 17, 2007 6:06:22 AM

Hi NMDante, do you work in 11X? what are you guys running these days?
January 17, 2007 6:12:04 AM

Quote:
Redesigning new architechure (spelling?) is remarkable for the expense involved. AMD is trying to save money methinks, hoping that they can eek the last squeeze of performance from the K8.
-cm


AMD is looking to improve IPC efficiency, not overcome Intel's architecture. I really could care less which one comes out first. Since they were said to be running at about 2.2 IPC, if they can increase that to 2.7 (do we HAVE TO go through this again), then that translates into a nice increase in BIPS.

They don't have to be faster than Intel for at least 2 more years based on the "NetBurst Era." I can't wait until Barcelona sticks its head back up. We should at least get a clock speed and a "real" bench or two.

I expect better than 70% better than Opteron just because of the extra cores. There are FOUR now. With the additional "ambiguation" and dedicated stack and 2x128bit loads, 2x128 bit SSE4A, etc WOW, who knows what that thing will do at 2.5GHz whenever it comes out.
What about the 6 IPC of K8L?
Can you tell us something more about that?
!