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AGP card DX 10 coming soon ?

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January 16, 2007 5:36:48 PM

Anyone hear if their are plans for an AGP card with Direct X 10.

This would be very cool.

Heard anything ?

More about : agp card coming

January 16, 2007 5:44:56 PM

The outlook does not look bright.
January 16, 2007 6:03:34 PM

I´d be surprised. Then again, i like surprises.

I think PCIe 2.0 is already on its way (meaning we will see it sometime mid or end of this year) i somewhat doubt that there will be any performance cards for AGP. Maybe some mid range cards though.
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January 16, 2007 6:05:33 PM

Wasn't AGP 2.0 coming out...? I thought I heard that somewhere...? Maybe they changed it from AGP 2.0 to PCIe 2.0 :lol: 
January 16, 2007 6:09:07 PM

It´s just a big plot to steal the consumers money anyway. I´m 100% confident that any card can work in any slot. 8)
January 16, 2007 6:19:02 PM

the outlook also didn't look too bright for the future of AGP back on the move to PCI-E, yet you still see top end cards ported to AGP...

I think there will be DX10 AGP cards, however they will be few and far between, and nowhere near as fast as their PCI-E counterparts. I predict it will also be some time before you see them, probably around 6 months after the release of its PCI-E counterpart. Take for example the X1950. after being out for some time, they finally released its AGP cousin, however diluted.

HOWEVER, I do not believe it is cool if they do. the longer legacy devices are kept around, the slower it is for better technologies to progress and the more things are bloated down to support dying tech. how much more effort does it take to make a PCI-PCI-E bridge and plug something into a 1x slot?

In all due respect, PCI should have died last year. Serial and Parallel should have died in the home (still needed for some schools, fabrication and industrial applications) 5 years ago, and IDE should be on its last legs. AGP also has no right to continue in my opinion as there is next to no support for it anymore. aside from ASRock, there is no more support for AGP mobo's left in the enthusiast market. better performance can be had going with a cheap mobo and proc upgrade than continuing to extend the life of a dead standard. If DX10 is something that is appealing to you, save yer $$ and get an upgrade worthwhile.
January 16, 2007 6:22:24 PM

the 1950pro agp is not a diluted version of its pci-e couterpart.

It is the exact same thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 16, 2007 6:28:05 PM

Quote:
the outlook also didn't look too bright for the future of AGP back on the move to PCI-E, yet you still see top end cards ported to AGP...

I think there will be DX10 AGP cards, however they will be few and far between, and nowhere near as fast as their PCI-E counterparts. I predict it will also be some time before you see them, probably around 6 months after the release of its PCI-E counterpart. Take for example the X1950. after being out for some time, they finally released its AGP cousin, however diluted.

That's not a very pretty picture so like I said, the outlook does not look bright.

And georgelawton's right. The AGP version of the X1950Pro isn't a diluted version of it's PCI-E cousin. Ditto for the 7600GT and it's AGP variant.
January 16, 2007 6:28:25 PM

Quote:
It´s just a big plot to steal the consumers money anyway. I´m 100% confident that any card can work in any slot. 8)


you wanna try that and let us know :D 
January 16, 2007 6:28:26 PM

Quote:
The outlook does not look bright.

I would say, it's totally dark.

Don't expect to see any next-gen AGP cards.
January 16, 2007 6:42:06 PM

I would say no, but I'd hate to repeat history. The 6800 was "definitely (according to some) the end", then we got the 7800. That was an overpriced last flail at a dying market, until we got the 7600GT, and more recently the X1950.

Will you ever get an 8800GTX on AGP? No, probably not. Will you, sometime in the future, get an 8300GS(or equivalent)? Quite possible, in my opinion.

Synergy6
January 16, 2007 6:44:50 PM

Not likely, and if they do the AGP cards will be released later and probably be more expensive. Seriously just get a new mobo you won't regret it.
January 16, 2007 6:57:59 PM

I doubt many manufacturers will bother. Dx10 requires having Vista which costs as much as $200(legally :)  ) just for premium, depending if you buy retail or oem.

For the most part, any gamers who aren't willing or financially able to upgrade from an old agp mobo+ card also probably aren't going to be willing to spend the cash to upgrade to vista either, so there isn't going to be a huge demand in the marketplace.

With PCIe 2.0 coming out in the very near future, I think Agp is in it's final days. Even if someone decides to come out with an agp dx 10 card, it will most likely be done as an afterthought, and will end up being a low- end watered down version of whats available on pcie 2.0.
January 16, 2007 7:09:34 PM

I thought having a DX 10 card with DX 10 drivers from the manufactuer will work in XP.
January 16, 2007 7:20:03 PM

Unless cracked, you won't see DX10 unless you have Microsoft Vista.
a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2007 7:21:49 PM

Quote:
The outlook does not look bright.

I would say, it's totally dark.

Don't expect to see any next-gen AGP cards.

I would say the only light is dim and not worth considering.

I expect low end DX10 cards for the proffesional workstation market.

Even then it might be the last of a generation, and very expensive for what you get.

Something to consider is the effect of the bus on communications. Considering aall the things expected from DX10 itself a bridge and the limited access of AGP may remove alot of benefits.
January 16, 2007 7:23:24 PM

Quote:
I thought having a DX 10 card with DX 10 drivers from the manufactuer will work in XP.


Dx10 is Vista only. You can run a dx10 card with xp (like everyones been doing with the 8800s) but you cant use any dx10's features without vista.

Also, you can run a dx9 card in vista no problem, but you wont be able to play any dx10 versions of games or play any games at all that are dx10 only (which don't exist yet anyway.)

According to microsoft, dx10 was created to work with the new driver model that comes with Vista, and they are unable (or unwilling) to tweak things to make dx10 run on xp. Theres no such thing as a dx10 driver for xp.
January 16, 2007 7:25:08 PM

I think it unlikely that there will be any AGP DX10 cards and if so they will be very expensive.

I mean I can't talk because I'm currently using AGP and at only 4x at that due to my 4 year old machine.

But seriously, it's time to upgrade, I know I will be at some time this year. Possibly when R600 and Nvidias next gen DX10 (presumably 8900 series if they follow their naming scheme) come out.
January 16, 2007 7:35:20 PM

Are you sure PCIe 1.0 cards will work in a mobo with PCIe 2.0 slots?
January 16, 2007 7:46:23 PM

Quote:
Are you sure PCIe 1.0 cards will work in a mobo with PCIe 2.0 slots?


Quote:
When asked about the cost effectiveness of PCIe 2.0, a PCI-SIG representative claimed "A PCI Express 1.1 x8 link (8 lanes) yields a total aggregate bandwidth of 4GBytes/s, which is the same bandwidth obtained from a PCI Express 2.0 x4 link (4 lanes) that adopts the 5GT/s signaling technology. This can result in significant savings in platform implementation cost while achieving the same performance level. Backward compatibility is retained as existing 2.5 GT/S adapters can plug into 5.0 GT/S slots and will run at the slower rate. Conversely, new PCIe 2.0 adapters running at 5.0 GT/S can plug into existing PCIe slots and run at the slower rate of 2.5 GT/S." Both 2.5GT/s and 5GT/s signaling are retained in the 2.0 specification


from This article.
January 16, 2007 7:58:45 PM

Yep ,,They sure will...
Look , they are selling every agp x1950pro they make, its always out of stock !!! they sell out in a hour !!!!!!! and thats just a x1950pro ..
DX-10 card will sell 2x times faster , why , it just will..
AGP people are power hungry , even if they can't use it fully !
Its just a fast power fix ...
AGP people will buy without giving it much thought...
That makes them the #1 best customer !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
a b U Graphics card
January 16, 2007 8:15:35 PM

Well I kinda infered AGP would be a bottleneck, but for the non-traditional things (like physics, procedural stuff, replication, etc.), not for the usual graphics stuff. Also not sure what latency would add.
January 16, 2007 8:51:10 PM

I hope there are no AGP DX10 cards. It's time to phase AGP out. I bit the bullet and upgraded. Consumers pay more for AGP cards anyhow. I'm afraid the AGP format is going nowhere and I hope it stays that way. PCI Express FTW!
January 16, 2007 9:36:16 PM

Just give me a second to fetch my bone saw so i can adjust my Tseng Labs Vesa card to accomodate one of those tight PCIe slots... :twisted:
January 16, 2007 9:51:34 PM

Thanks for the PCIe 1-2 info.
I just wasn't 100% sure.
a c 355 U Graphics card
January 16, 2007 9:51:56 PM

Quote:
Anyone hear if their are plans for an AGP card with Direct X 10.



Just let AGP die already.

In fact, the floppy drive needs to die as well.
January 16, 2007 10:27:47 PM

Quote:
Quote:


According to microsoft, dx10 was created to work with the new driver model that comes with Vista, and they are unable (or unwilling) to tweak things to make dx10 run on xp.


It's there way of getting people to buy vista. I'm sure if they wanted to, they could do it for xp.
February 23, 2007 12:25:23 PM

I preddicted this first.

I'll be first in line.
a b U Graphics card
February 23, 2007 12:56:08 PM

Quote:
It´s just a big plot to steal the consumers money anyway. I´m 100% confident that any card can work in any slot. 8)


This is a classic FUBAR.

I think this might be along the track you were mentioning... :) 
February 23, 2007 1:39:19 PM

Do the 8600 max out, or come close to maxing out, the AGP bandwidth?
Synergy6
a b U Graphics card
February 23, 2007 2:09:14 PM

Quote:
Anyone hear if their are plans for an AGP card with Direct X 10.



Just let AGP die already.

In fact, the floppy drive needs to die as well.

What about serial and parallel ports as well? I think USB, SATA and firewire have pretty much taken control of any external peripheral connections by this point...
February 23, 2007 4:27:22 PM

Does any AGP video card actually max out the bandwith of 8x AGP?

I don't really care either way if they make a DX10 card for AGP. By the time the games are "DX10 Only" they will be rolling out the succesor to the PCI-e slot. I mean, there are hardly any games that are even "DX9 Only". That all being said, I am still running an AGP x800gto, and I am quite happy with the performance. I have not had a reason to go spend a small fortune trying to upgrade my whole system to take advantage of DX10 or PCI-E.

Really, its all just a ploy to get you all to spend money on Vista. Which is funny to me, because I think Windows XP is a very good and stable OS, figuring you know how to do simple things like remove spyware, clean your registry, defrag, etc... In fact, I haven't had a system generated crash for over a year or so. The only time I have crashed is when I tried to OC my cpu a little to hard. So way to go, Vista people. :lol: 
a b U Graphics card
February 23, 2007 5:06:36 PM

I am going to have to completely agree with this post. There really isn't a reason to go to vista at this point. XP provides some great features that are also available on vista now. Everyone is telling you that its pertinent to upgrade to vista, or the world will come to a screeching halt. I'm sorry...no it won't. Maybe once games play really well on vista with the hardware that is SUPPOSED to be vista-ready, (and they have patched most of the initial major issues...i.e. SP1) I will go ahead and upgrade. I did the same thing from W2k when XP came out...I waited and was happy I did.
February 23, 2007 5:32:40 PM

:lol:  That's some hilarious shite right there.
February 23, 2007 5:35:22 PM

I have always been one of those people to say, "If it ain't broke...".

That being said, I haven't even seen Vista in action. It may be cool and new stuff is always exciting, but I just don't feel the need... yet. I am sure there will be a day when I actually get Vista. But for me, it's not an option until I fully upgrade my system. I know it would run on my current PC, but it is going to run worse than XP. And everything I play runs great, so why waste the money? There isn't even any DX10 games yet (that I am aware of). You would think they would want to have one or two at Vista launch. Other than DX10, what are the other big improvements of Vista?

I really am curious, though... Does any card actually max out AGP 8x bandwith? :?:
February 23, 2007 7:48:20 PM

Quote:
Anyone hear if their are plans for an AGP card with Direct X 10.

This would be very cool.

Heard anything ?

The important question would be.. why?
February 23, 2007 8:18:50 PM

Quote:

The important question would be.. why?


I presume this requires a deeper answer than "so that AGP systems can support DX10". Or maybe not.
Synergy6
February 23, 2007 8:31:06 PM

*Shrugs* This feels like one of those, "hey what if <Insert hypothetical scenario here> ". Then again, I don't know.
February 23, 2007 8:51:16 PM

As far as i know there will not be any DX10 AGP cards made.AGP is dying and all the new technology is being designed and built around PCI EXPRESS.As far as video cards are concerned anyways.Sorry to burst your bubble of hope.

Dahak

AMD X2-4400+@2.6 S-939
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COOLERMASTER MINI R120
February 23, 2007 9:33:28 PM

Really.

Linky.

However, being that it is the INQ and that TGGA suspects they will be low-end (8300-8400s) I'll stick with my original assessment that the outlook still does not look bright.
February 23, 2007 10:14:46 PM

Quote:
As far as i know there will not be any DX10 AGP cards made.AGP is dying and all the new technology is being designed and built around PCI EXPRESS.As far as video cards are concerned anyways.Sorry to burst your bubble of hope.


Considering most recent and "high" end AGP cards are just PCI-E cards with bridge chips for AGP, surely this is irrelevant.
Synergy6
February 23, 2007 11:10:26 PM

Sure,but the newest and greatest that are coming out right now require a wider bandwidth than agp provides.So I don't believe we'll see and agp version of the 8800gtx or gts.

Dahak
February 24, 2007 9:10:34 AM

Show me anywhere then that says they will be producing agp video cards that will support dx10.I would be very surprised if they came out with one.

Dahak
February 24, 2007 10:02:39 AM

I don't think the DX 10 cards are coming out for AGP. Even though the rumors that some video cards on AGP are actually bottlenecked by an AGP 8X interface is somewhat bs, you need to look at the max amount of power an AGP 8X slot can deliver. The PCI Express Interface can carry a max of up to 75 watts, which is if I remember correctly, more than the AGP 8X interface can supply. Look at the 8800GTX right now, it requires two 6 pin power connectors for it to function. Take the 75 watts from the PCI Express interface and then add the two 6 pin power connectors and you can get a ballpark idea of how many connectors would be required on an 8800GTX if it was built for an AGP 8X interface.

Another problem that faces AGP8X is the bandwidth. Given a lot of reviews, and taking a somewhat educated guess at how much bandwidth the 8800GTX uses in a PCI-Express X16 slot is probably tapping or eating up the highest amount of bandwidth the X16 slot can provide. I could be wrong though, it's just the PCI-Express X16 slot can send information both ways, while the AGP8X slot can only do it one way. (Something about have a one way lane or something.)

Also one last thing, regarding DX 10, it's vista exclusive. Unless Microsoft is either A. Forced to port Direct X 10 to Windows XP or B. Unless Some genius technicians, programmers and engineers get to together, tear apart the Vista driver model, Direct X10 and find someway to reverse engineer and design Direct X10 for Windows XP's driver model. Otherwise I wouldn't count on it. (Given all thats going for Microsoft, the only real thing going for them in Vista is slightly improved performance and Direct X10, other than that, no need to jump ship and shift over to Vista. That's my opinion though. I know in a couple of years I will have to move over to Vista due to Game Developers starting to make Direct X10 more mainstream as they start to phase out Direct X9.
February 24, 2007 11:58:18 AM

Quote:
The important question would be.. why?

That's the real question....

It's not like mainstream platform are made for AGP, C2Ds, and good AM2 mobos are all PCI-E.

Only low-end Asrocks have AGP. See the keyword? Low-end.

Also, AGP bandwidth is not an issue, nor a bottleneck, I don't understand the stupid comments.
February 24, 2007 12:03:48 PM

I believe there is a place for a mid-range agp dx10 card, something along the lines of an 8600.

I have two machines that I would still put a little more money into. Both machines are dead ends and not worth replacing their agp motherboards, but can still play a lot of titles. A skt478 p4 northwood with a 6800gt and a skt939 opty175 with an 850xt. Both machines are still viable but are becoming graphically bottle necked.

I'm not sure about the p4 but I would buy an 8600gt for the opty to play LAN Crysis with my mates. Re. the Vista license it could follow me to my next build and would not be lost money.
February 24, 2007 1:40:12 PM

Quote:
i believe there is a good chance of it happening. people have been saying AGP will end but then ATI brought out the x1950pro and at least in europe gainward had their 7800GS i believe it was called although they were really 7900 GPU's.

there is still a chance. however, if DX10 really lives up to the hype, anyone building a new comp would be foolish to stick with AGP if only for the range of products available to them.

It doesn´t really matter. If one of the big two thinks that there is a large enough crowd stupid enough to buy dx10 cards for AGP, they will cater to that crowd of anachronists. It´s all about money.
February 24, 2007 1:41:11 PM

Quote:
That's the real question....

It's not like mainstream platform are made for AGP, C2Ds, and good AM2 mobos are all PCI-E.

Only low-end Asrocks have AGP. See the keyword? Low-end.


Core2Duos and "good" AM2 may be the mainstream on this forum, and what's being produced, but they're not the majority of what is sitting in homes worldwide today.

Synergy6
February 24, 2007 2:15:36 PM

Maybe so,

but most computers from Dell, HP etc are modern AMDs or Intels with PCI-E slots. I don't see new PCs from them with AGP slots anymore.
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