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8800 GTX or wait for r600?

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January 17, 2007 3:46:38 AM

So I am ready for build execution. But the more research I do, the more I wonder whether I should wait for better things. the r600 release is soon, but how soon? No one seems to know. The GTX is awesome, but seems like with r600 comming to market, price drops are inevitable. And since direct3d10 drivers aren't even available, I'm thinking I should wait. Any suggestions? Thanks.

More about : 8800 gtx wait r600

January 18, 2007 11:40:14 PM

Quote:
So I am ready for build execution. But the more research I do, the more I wonder whether I should wait for better things. the r600 release is soon, but how soon? No one seems to know. The GTX is awesome, but seems like with r600 comming to market, price drops are inevitable. And since direct3d10 drivers aren't even available, I'm thinking I should wait. Any suggestions? Thanks.


I think that's basically the same question everyone is asking. Unless there is something forcing you to act, the smart money is definitely to wait as selection will go up and prices likely will go down. But you already knew that. :wink:
January 19, 2007 12:13:08 AM

Quote:
I think that's basically the same question everyone is asking. Unless there is something forcing you to act, the smart money is definitely to wait as selection will go up and prices likely will go down. But you already knew that. :wink:


I second John C. Wait till either A)Prices drop
B)Something better comes out

If you are not pressed to have the newest card right now, then the safest and probably smartest choice is to wait.
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January 19, 2007 3:40:04 PM

I am in exactly the same situation as you and I'm definately going to wait (which is a real pisser as I have an Antec 900 and a Raptor X in the cupboard waiting for it and all the other bits which I may as well also wait for now).

So thirded.
January 19, 2007 6:22:01 PM

Dang it, I knew I was right, but as you say, its hard to do when you have components just sitting on your desk. I got a Galaxy 850 psu for christmas, and all I get to do is look at it!! Which i guess isn't all that bad :D  So any firm dates on release of r600?
January 19, 2007 9:18:20 PM

As far as I know, the release dates are all over the place. So no, sorry. :cry: 
January 19, 2007 9:37:22 PM

Sort of interesting note, I found the PNY 8800 GTX for 550 on amazon no tax or shipping costs. Not bad price considering no rebate! (I hate rebates). If I do get a 8 series it will be from amazon. Also, there appears to be a new version of GTX with "AC3" cooling. anyone know anything about this?
January 21, 2007 2:59:22 AM

I think AC3 is supposed to be a n advanced form of passive cooling. Other than that I don't know much about it.
January 21, 2007 4:53:19 AM

Fudo and the boys at the INQwell seems to think it's anywhere from mid-February to the end of March, probably around CeBit time is when we will see DAAMIT's 720M transistior monster to compete with G80. Don't forget that nVidia's G80 high-end refresh (G86) is just around the corner. Personally I'm waiting for G84 or the 320MB 8800 GTS. Even still for a midrange part, 64 unified DX10 shaders (no doubt tweaked - probably giving at least 7800 GTX equivalent performance at minimum) and 256MB of GDDR3 for $189 sounds really sweet to me and other gamers on a budget. And hopefully you won't need a Core 2 Quad QX6700 to properly keep it feed it either.

Sorry I rambled off there a bit but yeah I fourth that - better and much more powerful (or at least cheaper) stuff is JUST around the corner. Paitence is truly a virtue here if you don't want to flush your money down the crapper.
January 21, 2007 5:50:18 AM

In another post I relayed my conversation with ATI last week. The physics implementation will be out week 1 of Feb. Vista/DX10 comes out Jan 30. It would be my opinion that the R600 would be coming out the same time or a little later. That way there is "FREE/complementary" hype. In short I WOULD WAIT. For how long you wait depends on what you have now, and what you can live with.

I have an X1900xtx and bought an x1600pro for physics so I may be biased. but I asked the same question a couple of months ago. When I see the results of Vista, DX10 and physics I will make some final decisions. By then competition between the 2 cards should be in full swing.

I would also wait to check out all the benchmarks then you could make an informed decision rather than an emotional one.

Do I like ATI better? yes, but I buy what is best at the time of need. I still have a 7800GT I bought when it was the Hot item.

Who knows, I may sell the 1600Pro and keep the x1900xtx as a physics card if it makes a difference in physics but 1 person at ATI told me it would not make any noticable difference. My current setup does all I need it to do and really can not see even needing to do anything until CRYSIS comes out in around SEPT. If I can wait that long should get a great deal or the 2nd generation of the R600.

just my 2 cents worth.
January 21, 2007 5:53:20 AM

Like everyone else.. I agree it's better to wait. Yes, the 8800 series are fantastic cards for running DX9 now, but they're very expensive and can't even take advantage of DX10 without Vista and the games that utilize them. The 7600/7800/7900 cards are plenty fast for DX9 games at 1920x1200 and lower resolution with medium to high settings. Wait for R600 - it may blow away 8800GTX, and it may not. No one really knows. Either way, at it's release, all cards will drop in price since there will be DX10 competition on the market (and hopefully the 8600 series too).. prices will stabilize to conform to performance specs for respective GPUs. nVidia has been capitalizing on inflated prices for people who will pay over $400 for their new cards since they're the only DX10 option on the market - hopefully ATI will try to undercut their prices with their R600 series, leading to lower prices with better performance for consumers.
January 21, 2007 7:30:49 AM

Of course they won't cut prices. They're making too much money milking us for all we're worth selling $600 graphics cards. For chrissakes one of the local computer shops (http://www.worldofcdrom.com) wants $599 for just a 8800 GTS! $399 for 7800 GS!
January 21, 2007 4:12:19 PM

Then don't buy local.

On line is where you will find real-world competitive pricing.
January 21, 2007 4:45:01 PM

I agree on that on-line would be the best place to buy anything that has to do with computers(newegg). My local shop sells the 8800GTS for $600 canadian. Still, its really only worth $480 Canadian.

Edit: They will cut prices when competition comes in, it's the way the market works. (hope ati will release mid-range dx10 to keep prices down on the 8600Ultra :D )
January 21, 2007 4:57:55 PM

Wait it out, its not like you have 10 DX10 games teasing you to play.
January 21, 2007 8:30:49 PM

Most of my comment is just common sense, but take it for what it's worth to you:

You can play the waiting game forever. You can wait another three to six months for the 8800 GTX to drop in price a bit. But note that cards aren't dropping in price as fast as they used to. I paid $600 for my 7800 GTX fifteen months ago and it is still selling for $370+ today. However, by the time the card as dropped, you may think you want whatever the hottest card is at *that* time. So then you'll have the same situation you have today -- do I buy for a lot now or wait again for the next price drop?

Playing the "what will the next competitor's card bring" game is somewhat along the same line. Nobody can really tell you for sure today if the next ATI card is going to blow the 8800 GTX out of the water (or the 8900, which will probably be the competing card by the time ATI makes their release). If we could so easily know that, there wouldn't be much of a point for all of the benchmarks and reviews being done once the card *does* come out. Until then, it's all just complete guessing. Educated guessing in some respects, but guessing nonetheless.

I would suggest that the first thing you need to do is decide if money is an issue for you. Are you looking for highest performance without regard to price? Or is there a price limit that you must stick to?

If price is no concern, then decide if you want the 8800 GTX today or if you're willing to wait a little while for the 8900 GTX or the r600. If you aren't patient (I'm not) or you need something high-end immediately, then maybe you should buy the 8800 GTX.

If price IS a concern, then you need to find your price range and then decide if you want to spend that amount on, say, the GTS today or the GTX in a couple months when it drops a little.

It's all subjective and different for each person. The guiding factor may be what you want to do with the card today and what you want to do with the card in the future. I tend to build a new machine every year, but it's not on some sort of schedule. I usually just end up buying a game and finding out that the graphics or performance could be enormously cooler if I upgraded my year old card again -- and that leads to me building a whole new box.

So, for example, if you play a lot of videogames you need to list what games you play today and what their requirements are for maxing out the graphics/resolutions to your satisfaction. Then add to the list what games you are looking forward to buying and playing over the next twelve to eighteen months and what the requirements for really enjoyable playing on those will be. That will help guide you quite a bit.

NEVER buy a piece of hardware just to be the big kid on the block or have bragging rights. People who buy quad cores for videogames are wasting their money and not really impressing anyone. People who spend $600 on a videocard just to say they have the latest card won't be the cool guys in three more months when everyone has bought a 8900 GTX or in nine more months when everyone is buying a 9900 GTX.

Also, you will find that you can usually buy your parts online which means while you'll have to pay shipping you probably won't have to pay taxes. I'm happy to spend $10 on shipping to save $60 in taxes. You should take a look at places like newegg.com and definitely start out with PriceWatch.com (but be sure to heed the comments of customers of each company listed before purchasing -- I have never had any problems with a company listing on pricewatch, but some people have. You also need to keep aware of whether the bargain deal you are getting through pricewatch is for a new retail item, OEM item, or whitelabel/recertified/reburbished item).

As for DX10, I wouldn't put much concern in that for the time being. Yes, Windows Vista will support DX10. In fact, it's really the only reason one would want to bother with it. But just as many of us found that the majority of our games which worked on XP didn't even install on XP 64bit (much less actually run), there are going to be plenty of similar problems on Vista with older and existing games. And there won't be a lot of DX10 games for some time now. Crysis will be DX10. Vanguard:SOH is supposedly eventually going to be DX10 (or maybe Sigil just means it will work on Vista, but not exploit DX10 in the future - I don't know). But I don't know of any other games really expected to aim for it in the near future.

So, while DX10 is a great thing to have supported by your card, it's hardly a reason alone to buy a particular card. Unless you really really really really really are looking forward to Crysis and Crysis alone.
January 21, 2007 8:46:14 PM

Excellent advice!! Good points and solid logic. I have been sort of thinking the same thing. There may be a $50 dollar price drop or whatever when r600 is released, but if you wait, you're missing out on using that hardware for a month or two. Besides, with no solid release dates, who is to say that waiting will pay off anyway. And as you say, it just depends on the person. I think I will be buying my GTX from Amazon in the next week or so. I have to do a little more research on everything else. By the way, I metioned this before, but the PNY 8800 GTX on Amazon is a killer deal because there is NO tax and NO shipping costs from there. Especially good if you're in california like me. Also, 550 is good consider no rebates. Some of the other ones after rebates are like $520 but after tax and shipping, it could easily be $560. (and thats assuming you'll even get the rebate...those bastards) So from what i've seen, for the cheapest GTX = Amazon!
January 21, 2007 9:39:34 PM

My question is what kind of system do you got now? If you can play all or most games now, then what is the point of upgrading. I always upgrade my computer if i notice slowing performances or find a game icant play. I got an aging computer, but there isnt anything out there that DEMANDS a top rig.. for me anythow. I run Oblivion just fine. Rushing in sometimes and paying top dollar for something that doesnt really support much doesnt always make sense, when if you wait more games and cheaper, better cards will be out.

But if you're struggling now by all means upgrade. But i dont think 1-2months will kill you if your rig is half decent.
January 21, 2007 10:02:26 PM

Quote:
Excellent advice!! Good points and solid logic. I have been sort of thinking the same thing. There may be a $50 dollar price drop or whatever when r600 is released, but if you wait, you're missing out on using that hardware for a month or two. Besides, with no solid release dates, who is to say that waiting will pay off anyway. And as you say, it just depends on the person. I think I will be buying my GTX from Amazon in the next week or so. I have to do a little more research on everything else. By the way, I metioned this before, but the PNY 8800 GTX on Amazon is a killer deal because there is NO tax and NO shipping costs from there. Especially good if you're in california like me. Also, 550 is good consider no rebates. Some of the other ones after rebates are like $520 but after tax and shipping, it could easily be $560. (and thats assuming you'll even get the rebate...those bastards) So from what i've seen, for the cheapest GTX = Amazon!


Page Computers is selling the eVGA 8800GTX for $532

After shipping

Somethings up with the URL links here...
January 21, 2007 10:10:54 PM

Chaos makes a good point. If you're talking about going with a $600 card today versus a $600 card in a year from now, that's purely up to you and what your games/software/habits demand from a card (as to whether you really can wait or not).

On the other hand, if you're debating whether to buy a card today or in two or three months but you really want something suped-up right now, then I say you should seriously consider looking into the eVGA NVIDIA upgrade program. That way you can buy a top of the line card today and exchange it for a top of the line card in a couple months (within 90 days) for the cost of shipping and the difference between the card prices.

I am not a very patient person when it comes to buying new toys, so I am probably going to go with that method. I just don't see myself being patient enough to wait 30-90 days for the next version of the 8800 to come out with whatever tweaks, revisions and improvements it provides.
January 21, 2007 10:14:47 PM

I'm gonna represent NVidia here and say...

BUY NOW! BUY OUR PRODUCT NOW OR YOU WILL DIE! DON'T WAIT! BUY IT NOW!!!!!111!!11one!!

-cm
January 21, 2007 10:25:20 PM

Oh, how appropriate your VISA avatar is!
January 21, 2007 10:28:24 PM

Subliminal messages.

GO BUY THINGS. BUY THINGS NOW. BUY BUY BUY. USE YOUR VISA/MASTERCARD. BUY THINGS WITH VISA/MASTERCARD.
*cough* Did you hear something?
-cm
January 21, 2007 10:47:54 PM

R600. Its been designed around the idea of giving nVidia a run for its money.
January 21, 2007 10:52:21 PM

Does the Nvidia upgrade program only work with EVGA stuff or with other brands (I'm guessing only with EVGA). Has anyone here actually used it? If so, worth the work?
January 21, 2007 11:49:36 PM

Its called the Step-up program... and it ain't all that.

Basically if you buy a card now... like the 8800GTX... thats as far as you can go. The Stepup program will not apply to you.

If you buy the GTS version you can get the GTX version within 90 Days of purchase provided you sign up on time... there are available cards... and you meet thier "Criteria".

If you think you are going to buy a GTX card and wait until the 8900GTX comes out you will be dissapointed because eVGA will not trade out cards fresh on the market that are in high demand.

Step-Up Rules
January 22, 2007 12:59:34 AM

I see. OK, thanks for the clarification.
January 22, 2007 1:10:09 AM

Quote:
R600. Its been designed around the idea of giving nVidia a run for its money.


That implies that NVIDIA wasn't designing their card to be competitive with ATi. Obviously they're aware of having to be competitive with them and intend to. Not to mention, the reiteration of the 8800 will be out around the same time as the ATi card, so they'll probably be a step ahead.

I think comfort with brand (past experiences, etc) is probably more important. As well as price. I don't think NVIDIA users typically cry in their beer about how they wish only they had chosen ATi instead and I don't ATi users do the same.
January 22, 2007 1:16:09 AM

Quote:

Basically if you buy a card now... like the 8800GTX... thats as far as you can go. The Stepup program will not apply to you.

If you buy the GTS version you can get the GTX version within 90 Days of purchase provided you sign up on time... there are available cards... and you meet thier "Criteria".

If you think you are going to buy a GTX card and wait until the 8900GTX comes out you will be dissapointed because eVGA will not trade out cards fresh on the market that are in high demand.

Step-Up Rules


I just read their rules for the program the other day and I don't recall it saying anything about only being able to upgrade within the next 90 days to cards that were already on the market when you purchased your current card. In fact, a lot of their marketing of the program appears to be toward the "I bought a card one day and a couple months later, something better came out" crowd.

Whether or not the card is widely available or in demand when you decide to trade it in isn't really relevant. They indicate you may be subject to a wait period until it is in stock. If the card doesn't become available, you may not be able to trade up at all. But there's nothing indicating that they're going to say "oh, gee, this is really popular right now so we're not going to send you one".

I don't have any personal experience with the program, of course. I'm just speaking as to what I've previously read about it.

Quote:
Unreleased or future products may not become available or have limited availability for the Step-up™ Program. In the event of limited availability, product will be distributed on a first come first serve basis at the sole discretion of EVGA


Of course, that doesn't gaurantee anything. But I don't see anything alarming about it. And, of course, they reserve the right to change the program whenever they damn well feel like it. So... in that respect...

Still, I'm not going to be concerned about it because most people don't take advantage of that program and when the 8900s (or whatever) roll out in February or March, everyone will have already spent their wad on the 8800. So it's not like there's going to be twenty million people clammering for a few thousand 8900s.
January 23, 2007 1:01:08 AM

That's such a stupid damn system... People who shell out a ton of money for a card should be top dogs for a year AT LEAST.
-cm
January 23, 2007 7:48:08 AM

Quote:
That's such a stupid damn system... People who shell out a ton of money for a card should be top dogs for a year AT LEAST.
-cm


I totally agree its like the consumer cannot win . Spend 600 dollars + and wait

3 months to look like a complete idiot .

Also i would definately wait for the R 600 i have feeling the 8800 wont quit cut it with the dx 10 games later this year and mind you i am talking 1600 x 1200 being the minimum with everything maxed AA , AF etc :) 
January 23, 2007 10:15:03 AM

Quote:

I totally agree its like the consumer cannot win . Spend 600 dollars + and wait

3 months to look like a complete idiot .


If you want to win as a consumer you buy cards like the x1900xt for 215 dollars that run every game currently on the market perfectly with decent eye candy at reasonable resolutions. If you want to brag/future proof/get rid of loose cash or have other special circumstances you buy 600 dollar graphics cards that will depreciate by half within a year.
January 23, 2007 11:16:45 AM

I sort of disagree, the 8800 GTX will be up to the job, but the drivers wont. In the end your statement is right but the issue is with the driver team. DX10 isn't that much work for a card that supports the features so performance hit shouldn't be that bad.

Nvidia's sub par drivers are terrible in Vista and my confidence is low that they will work it out any time soon. My guess would be 6 months or more.
January 24, 2007 6:51:30 PM

It will be the same as the 7800-7900 deal. The 7800 was still a great card when the 7900 came out, but people who spent lots of money on it had to live with the knowledge that their beloved beast was now COMPLETELY OUTCLASSED by a better version of their card. In essence, they bought cards that were not up to their potential, and they paid for it. This is a new-ish trend, it didn't happen with the 6800's (it did with the FX line though) and it's something NVidia (ATI is guilty too) does. It blindsides the people who are willing to pay TOP DOLLAR for good hardware and cheats them. I don't think people who are like this are particularly bright, but that doesn't mean that companies have the right to SCREW them. It's ridiculous.
-cm
January 24, 2007 9:04:39 PM

i had the same question , i thought i would get a midrange card to last me till R600 is out.Then i woke up one morning and wanted to play my current games fast so i got myself 8800GTS.Its about the same price as ATI`s best at the moment and you get DX10 support for later.I like it,its fast , you can OC it and get even faster.Ok,there arent any DX10 games out but who cares?If you were to choose between X1950 and 8800GTS what would you get?And anyway you might wait for R600 then Nvidia will have something even faster in a few months and so on.You might end up waiting ages .
January 24, 2007 10:49:55 PM

I used to work for a farmer named "Cal".
-cm
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