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stupid station logos burnin on HD broadcast?

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Anonymous
May 16, 2004 1:07:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

The local affiliate Digital broadcasts of CBS NBC And ABC insist on putting
their transparent logo on the bottom right of the screen which NEVER goes
away.

Will this burn in on my HD TV set?

If so, could there be a "class action" lawsuit to prevent this? I mean if
this can be proven to damage your screen, would not they be liable for that
damage?

Really becoming a pet peeve of mine.

thanks

Mango


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Anonymous
May 16, 2004 2:10:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

"Mango" <Mango_masher@puny.com> wrote in message
news:2go0nqF4rg8sU1@uni-berlin.de...
> The local affiliate Digital broadcasts of CBS NBC And ABC insist on
putting
> their transparent logo on the bottom right of the screen which NEVER goes
> away.
>
> Will this burn in on my HD TV set?
>
> If so, could there be a "class action" lawsuit to prevent this? I mean if
> this can be proven to damage your screen, would not they be liable for
that
> damage?
>
> Really becoming a pet peeve of mine.
>
> thanks
>
> Mango
>
>

Theoretically, YES. In actual practice, I haven't seen it. I guess it
would depend on how many channels you watch, and for how many hours per
week. I'm surprised I don't have the History channel logo burned into my
set yet. :)  Interesting point. I've never thought of the logo damaging
the display equipment. But it certainly could do that, just like any other
image displayed for long periods of time. -Dave
May 16, 2004 2:10:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote in message news:2go0uhF4svipU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Mango" <Mango_masher@puny.com> wrote in message
> news:2go0nqF4rg8sU1@uni-berlin.de...
> > The local affiliate Digital broadcasts of CBS NBC And ABC insist on
> putting
> > their transparent logo on the bottom right of the screen which NEVER goes
> > away.
> >
> > Will this burn in on my HD TV set?
> >
> > If so, could there be a "class action" lawsuit to prevent this? I mean if
> > this can be proven to damage your screen, would not they be liable for
> that
> > damage?
> >
> > Really becoming a pet peeve of mine.
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Mango
> >
> >
>
> Theoretically, YES. In actual practice, I haven't seen it. I guess it
> would depend on how many channels you watch, and for how many hours per
> week. I'm surprised I don't have the History channel logo burned into my
> set yet. :)  Interesting point. I've never thought of the logo damaging
> the display equipment. But it certainly could do that, just like any other
> image displayed for long periods of time. -Dave

Most of these logos are semi-transparent, which should
prevent any burn-in (unless by some miracle, the background
behind the logo stays black or another single color for many,
many hours at one time).

The "logos" that drive me nuts are the ones that completely
replace the lower portion of the screen (e.g. SpikeTV,
when they first came on the air).

Rick
Anonymous
May 16, 2004 7:56:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

On Sat, 15 May 2004 22:10:24 -0400, "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:

>
>"Mango" <Mango_masher@puny.com> wrote in message
>news:2go0nqF4rg8sU1@uni-berlin.de...
>> The local affiliate Digital broadcasts of CBS NBC And ABC insist on
>putting
>> their transparent logo on the bottom right of the screen which NEVER goes
>> away.
>>
>> Will this burn in on my HD TV set?
>>
>> If so, could there be a "class action" lawsuit to prevent this? I mean if
>> this can be proven to damage your screen, would not they be liable for
>that
>> damage?
>>
>> Really becoming a pet peeve of mine.
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Mango
>>
>>
>
>Theoretically, YES. In actual practice, I haven't seen it. I guess it
>would depend on how many channels you watch, and for how many hours per
>week. I'm surprised I don't have the History channel logo burned into my
>set yet. :)  Interesting point. I've never thought of the logo damaging
>the display equipment. But it certainly could do that, just like any other
>image displayed for long periods of time. -Dave
>


It will probably have bunny ears on it when it does get burned in.
No, not rabbit ears...
Anonymous
May 16, 2004 8:12:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

Burn in? Probably if watched long enough. But that might be beyond the
life of your TV which makes it a not a problem.

As far as a class action suit, it's about as good of a case as the one where
fat people are sueing McDonalds for making them overweight. Bottom line is
that you are in control over your TV set, not the TV stations.

"Mango" <Mango_masher@puny.com> wrote in message
news:2go0nqF4rg8sU1@uni-berlin.de...
> The local affiliate Digital broadcasts of CBS NBC And ABC insist on
> putting
> their transparent logo on the bottom right of the screen which NEVER goes
> away.
>
> Will this burn in on my HD TV set?
>
> If so, could there be a "class action" lawsuit to prevent this? I mean if
> this can be proven to damage your screen, would not they be liable for
> that
> damage?
>
> Really becoming a pet peeve of mine.
>
> thanks
>
> Mango
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.676 / Virus Database: 438 - Release Date: 5/3/2004
>
>
Anonymous
May 16, 2004 11:15:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

>>Will this burn in on my HD TV set?


I'm not as worried about burn in as I am annoyed at stations like FOX
KTTV-DT here in LA where they have TWO HUGE station ID's on all the time
and they are well within the main part of the frame (not at the edge).
Absolutely ridiculous!
Anonymous
May 16, 2004 2:02:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

Gary, I disagree. If Mcdonalds was putting a food addivte that would hurt
100% of the people...you bet they could be sued. If a tv station is
broadcasting a banner that can be shown to burn in 100% of the tv sets...you
dont think they are liable for damage?....I would think they would be and I
think that it could be proven, easily in a court of law.

Mango


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Anonymous
May 16, 2004 4:15:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

> The "logos" that drive me nuts are the ones that completely
> replace the lower portion of the screen (e.g. SpikeTV,
> when they first came on the air).
>
> Rick
>

What about the logos that go ANIMATED all over the frickin' screen in the
middle of the best part of your favorite shows? Yeah, like I really want to
watch my show with dancing dinosaurs IN THE FOREGROUND. -Dave
Anonymous
May 16, 2004 4:16:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

$Y75.548@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> Burn in? Probably if watched long enough. But that might be beyond the
> life of your TV which makes it a not a problem.
>
> As far as a class action suit, it's about as good of a case as the one
where
> fat people are sueing McDonalds for making them overweight. Bottom line
is
> that you are in control over your TV set, not the TV stations.
>

Does that mean we can turn the bug off to prevent burn-in? -Dave
May 16, 2004 5:40:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Rick wrote:
> Most of these logos are semi-transparent, which should
> prevent any burn-in (unless by some miracle, the background
> behind the logo stays black or another single color for many,
> many hours at one time).
>
> The "logos" that drive me nuts are the ones that completely
> replace the lower portion of the screen (e.g. SpikeTV,
> when they first came on the air).
>
> Rick
>
>

If you can see the logos, they WILL burn in both CRT and plasma
technology. They may not do it as quickly as solid logos, but they will
eventually.
I don't understand why they don't move the damn things around instead of
leaving them in one spot.
Clay
Anonymous
May 16, 2004 8:58:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

>Most of these logos are semi-transparent, which should
>prevent any burn-in (unless by some miracle, the background
>behind the logo stays black or another single color for many,
>many hours at one time).

It's not a miracle. It may be considered a curse by some. It's
called "letterboxing". The station "bug" is likely to show up in
a corner which is not covered by a wide-screen movie when viewed
on a 4:3 aspect ratio TV (that is, not HDTV), and therefore the
background for the "bug", or most of it, is black all the time. I
don't know whether the opposite issue also occurs: watching 4:3
programming transmitted on HDTV on a 16:9 monitor. The bug might
be inserted outside the area of the screen used by programming.

I think modern monitors are better than this, though. How many
(computer) monitors end up having the Windows toolbar burned into
them? (Screensavers may not help if you spend a lot of time in
front of the computer actually using it.)

Gordon L. Burditt
Anonymous
May 16, 2004 8:58:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

Gordon Burditt wrote:
> I think modern monitors are better than this, though. How many
> (computer) monitors end up having the Windows toolbar burned into
> them? (Screensavers may not help if you spend a lot of time in
> front of the computer actually using it.)

But that toolbar is easily moved to any side of the screen...

Laurel


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Anonymous
May 16, 2004 9:44:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

On Sun, 16 May 2004 10:02:53 -0500, "Mango" <Mango_masher@puny.com>
wrote:

>Gary, I disagree. If Mcdonalds was putting a food addivte that would hurt
>100% of the people...you bet they could be sued. If a tv station is
>broadcasting a banner that can be shown to burn in 100% of the tv sets...you
>dont think they are liable for damage?....I would think they would be and I
>think that it could be proven, easily in a court of law.
>
>Mango
>


Of course, the fact that 100% of the TV sets aren't susceptible to
burn-in might hurt your cause...
Anonymous
May 16, 2004 9:44:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

Previously in misc.consumers, Bob Ward <bobward@email.com> proclaimed
:

>On Sun, 16 May 2004 10:02:53 -0500, "Mango" <Mango_masher@puny.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Gary, I disagree. If Mcdonalds was putting a food addivte that would hurt
>>100% of the people...you bet they could be sued. If a tv station is
>>broadcasting a banner that can be shown to burn in 100% of the tv sets...you
>>dont think they are liable for damage?....I would think they would be and I
>>think that it could be proven, easily in a court of law.
>>
>>Mango
>>
>
>
>Of course, the fact that 100% of the TV sets aren't susceptible to
>burn-in might hurt your cause...
>


....as are 100% of monitors manufactured in the last 10 years.




__________________________________________________________________________

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__________________________________________________________________________
Remove "die spammers" to email
Anonymous
May 16, 2004 9:44:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

Bob Ward <bobward@email.com> wrote in message news:<h2afa0tr948gota7c5safp8hogb0u5ppsd@4ax.com>...
>
>
> Of course, the fact that 100% of the TV sets aren't susceptible to
> burn-in might hurt your cause...

Also, if burn-in does turn out to be a problem you would have more
luck suing the manufacturer of the TV set than you would suing the
broadcasters :-)

In any case, the engineers who developed the current generation of TV
sets were aware that burn-in would be a bad thing, and they have taken
steps to prevent it. Hopefully these are successful steps. (And
there are relatively simple ways to test the success, e.g., by leaving
the same image on a prototype set on 24/7 for months at a time to see
if burn-in is happening.)

In most cases, as others have pointed out, the bugs are usually
semi-transparent. Not only that, not every station's bug is in the
same place (indeed some stations don't even put them in the lower
right hand corner) and bugs go away when a commercial is on (and also
if you are playing a DVD or watching an on-demand movie...)
Anonymous
May 16, 2004 10:10:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

On Sun, 16 May 2004 12:12:20 -0700, "SuperEeyore"
<monkeylove@lanset.com>

>Gordon Burditt wrote:
>> I think modern monitors are better than this, though. How many
>> (computer) monitors end up having the Windows toolbar burned into
>> them? (Screensavers may not help if you spend a lot of time in
>> front of the computer actually using it.)
>
>But that toolbar is easily moved to any side of the screen...
>
Or you can auto-hide it.
Anonymous
May 16, 2004 10:12:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

On Sun, 16 May 2004 12:15:13 -0400, "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net>

>> The "logos" that drive me nuts are the ones that completely
>> replace the lower portion of the screen (e.g. SpikeTV,
>> when they first came on the air).
>>
>> Rick
>>
>
>What about the logos that go ANIMATED all over the frickin' screen in the
>middle of the best part of your favorite shows? Yeah, like I really want to
>watch my show with dancing dinosaurs IN THE FOREGROUND. -Dave
>

Yes, and apparently visual distraction isn't enough for these folks -
some networks have added sound to make sure you don't miss their
animations.
Anonymous
May 16, 2004 11:30:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

On Sun, 16 May 2004 12:12:20 -0700, "SuperEeyore"
<monkeylove@lanset.com> wrote:

>Gordon Burditt wrote:
>> I think modern monitors are better than this, though. How many
>> (computer) monitors end up having the Windows toolbar burned into
>> them? (Screensavers may not help if you spend a lot of time in
>> front of the computer actually using it.)
>
>But that toolbar is easily moved to any side of the screen...
>
>Laurel

I'm going on six years with my current monitor - no signs of burn-in
yet.
Anonymous
May 16, 2004 11:37:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

> But that toolbar is easily moved to any side of the screen...

That's pretty advanced for the majority of computer users <grin>
--
Don in Upstate NY
May 17, 2004 3:27:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

Mango wrote:

> The local affiliate Digital broadcasts of CBS NBC And ABC insist on
> putting their transparent logo on the bottom right of the screen which
> NEVER goes away.

> Will this burn in on my HD TV set?

> If so, could there be a "class action" lawsuit to prevent this? I mean
> if this can be proven to damage your screen, would not they be liable for
> that damage?

> Really becoming a pet peeve of mine.

> thanks

> Mango


In the real world I've only seen one true case where an image was burned
into the screen so badly it was detectable.
That was because the tv monitor was on 24/7 with a clock always in the same
position.

While it is theoretical possible this burn in may happen, chances are very
slim that it will.
As you have the power to turn off the set and switch channels, this will
lessen the likelihood of a burn in.
Even though the logo may appear to remain in the same position during the
broadcast, during the commercials it is off, so that in itself will probably
keep a burn in from happening.

I'm watching it now and they do in fact change the location and even the
size of the logo.
It it not visible in commercials. Wonder why?
May 17, 2004 3:36:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

No...but you can set your brightness and contrast to the proper levels to
assure you no burn in.
I promise you that, in any "class action suit" the stations will be able to
prove that sets properly set up will not show burn in.


"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote in message
news:2gpie6F5asjjU1@uni-berlin.de...
> $Y75.548@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> > Burn in? Probably if watched long enough. But that might be beyond the
> > life of your TV which makes it a not a problem.
> >
> > As far as a class action suit, it's about as good of a case as the one
> where
> > fat people are sueing McDonalds for making them overweight. Bottom line
> is
> > that you are in control over your TV set, not the TV stations.
> >
>
> Does that mean we can turn the bug off to prevent burn-in? -Dave
>
>
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 7:49:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

> Gary, I disagree. If Mcdonalds was putting a food addivte that would hurt
> 100% of the people...you bet they could be sued. If a tv station is
> broadcasting a banner that can be shown to burn in 100% of the tv sets...you
> dont think they are liable for damage?....I would think they would be and I
> think that it could be proven, easily in a court of law.

No, of course they're not liable. They are within the specs of the
ATSC or NTSC broadcasting specs. If you're too stupid to change the
channel, turn the brightness down, or turn the TV off, that's your
problem. For all we know, you have your PVR on pause with the
brightness and contrasts cranked up for 24 hours a day.

The thought process by people like you in this country is incredible.
You're TOLD (most likely in your TV manual) by the manufacturer of the
TV and by people on this newsgroup that a problem might exist, and the
FIRST thing you think of it blaming it on someone else.
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 7:50:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote in message news:<2gpie6F5asjjU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> $Y75.548@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> > Burn in? Probably if watched long enough. But that might be beyond the
> > life of your TV which makes it a not a problem.
> >
> > As far as a class action suit, it's about as good of a case as the one
> where
> > fat people are sueing McDonalds for making them overweight. Bottom line
> is
> > that you are in control over your TV set, not the TV stations.
> >
>
> Does that mean we can turn the bug off to prevent burn-in? -Dave

Yes, see that "Channel" and "OFF" button on your remote?
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 8:06:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

> >What about the logos that go ANIMATED all over the frickin' screen in the
> >middle of the best part of your favorite shows? Yeah, like I really want
to
> >watch my show with dancing dinosaurs IN THE FOREGROUND. -Dave
> >
>
> Yes, and apparently visual distraction isn't enough for these folks -
> some networks have added sound to make sure you don't miss their
> animations.

Next step . . . do away with programming completely and run ADS for
programming 24 hours a day, interspersed with commercials of course.
:)  -Dave
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 8:12:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

"Curmudgeon" <gary@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:vjWpc.28194$z41.18970@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> No...but you can set your brightness and contrast to the proper levels to
> assure you no burn in.
> I promise you that, in any "class action suit" the stations will be able
to
> prove that sets properly set up will not show burn in.
>

Ummmm . . . thinking of a gentle way to say this, but you don't know what
you are talking about, then. Most people don't know how to adjust
brightness and contrast correctly. I do, as I am PAID to know (among other
things) how to properly adjust brightness and contrast. BUT, you can set
brightness and contrast correctly OR NOT. Won't matter. Any image that is
visible on a TV can be burned into that TV, if that image is displayed long
enough. -Dave
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 8:14:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

>
> I'm watching it now and they do in fact change the location and even the
> size of the logo.
> It it not visible in commercials. Wonder why?
>

Because it's OK to piss off billions of TV viewers, but NOT OK to piss of
their few advertisers. -Dave
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 10:56:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

> >
> > Does that mean we can turn the bug off to prevent burn-in? -Dave
>
> Yes, see that "Channel" and "OFF" button on your remote?

Of course!!! Turn it off and leave it off! No burn-in problem. What a
BRILLIANT idea!!! I wonder why I didn't think of it? -Dave (come to think
of it, I'll never drive the car again . . . that way, nobody will rear-end
me ever again. Safety first!)
May 17, 2004 12:22:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

>
> ...as are 100% of monitors manufactured in the last 10 years.
>
Wrong, I've seen a few lcd's with window's login burned in. and a 42"
plazma with a "network monitoring" layout nicely burnt in as well. The
latest crt's are safer but lcd and plazma start all over again with the burn
in problems of the past.
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 12:23:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

Oh, well, you know what I think your "thought process" is incredible. Its
ok for a station to continually post a logo on my TV set which can cause
burn in. OH, and yes I have adjusted the controls, but who in gave them the
right to do that? and why don't they do in their other channels?....Maybe
you shouldn't just follow the corporate world in lock step and maybe you
should challenge them a bit just because they exert their might to cram
something down our throats because they have the power.

Enjoy your logos and all the other stuff the clutters up the HD screen.
After all one only buys the HD screen to enjoy the picture, which, by the
way, the broadcasters are all more than too happy to screw it. But don't
question it...cus...well....that's the corp. way...and they know best...yeah
right!....

Mango


"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5db363e0.0405170249.18085fb2@posting.google.com...
> > Gary, I disagree. If Mcdonalds was putting a food addivte that would
hurt
> > 100% of the people...you bet they could be sued. If a tv station is
> > broadcasting a banner that can be shown to burn in 100% of the tv
sets...you
> > dont think they are liable for damage?....I would think they would be
and I
> > think that it could be proven, easily in a court of law.
>
> No, of course they're not liable. They are within the specs of the
> ATSC or NTSC broadcasting specs. If you're too stupid to change the
> channel, turn the brightness down, or turn the TV off, that's your
> problem. For all we know, you have your PVR on pause with the
> brightness and contrasts cranked up for 24 hours a day.
>
> The thought process by people like you in this country is incredible.
> You're TOLD (most likely in your TV manual) by the manufacturer of the
> TV and by people on this newsgroup that a problem might exist, and the
> FIRST thing you think of it blaming it on someone else.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Anonymous
May 17, 2004 12:41:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

"jb" <jaybruceReMoVe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:IC_pc.15616252$Of.2605560@news.easynews.com...
>
> >
> > ...as are 100% of monitors manufactured in the last 10 years.
> >
> Wrong, I've seen a few lcd's with window's login burned in. and a 42"
> plazma with a "network monitoring" layout nicely burnt in as well. The
> latest crt's are safer but lcd and plazma start all over again with the
burn
> in problems of the past.
>
How difficult would it be for someone to build a device that filters these
logos out?
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 12:41:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

> >
> How difficult would it be for someone to build a device that filters these
> logos out?
>
>

Not difficult at all. But warding off the resulting lawsuits would be a
real bitch. :)  -Dave
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 1:18:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

Mango wrote:
>
> The local affiliate Digital broadcasts of CBS NBC And ABC insist on putting
> their transparent logo on the bottom right of the screen which NEVER goes
> away.
>
> Will this burn in on my HD TV set?

Very old and some new plasma displays have burn-in. Most
new sets, even HD sets, do not.
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 5:13:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

In article <2gra34F5tnadU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net>
wrote:

> Next step . . . do away with programming completely and run ADS for
> programming 24 hours a day, interspersed with commercials of course.

You forgot the most profitable step: charge more for receiving it.
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 5:13:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

<bearclaw@cruller.invalid> wrote in message
news:bearclaw-2CBFC1.06134717052004@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <2gra34F5tnadU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Next step . . . do away with programming completely and run ADS for
> > programming 24 hours a day, interspersed with commercials of course.
>
> You forgot the most profitable step: charge more for receiving it.

I didn't forget it, it's already been done, multiple times. I was just
suggesting a new way for the networks to make money, something they haven't
tried YET. :)  -Dave
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 5:57:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

In article <2grse0F64tb3U1@uni-berlin.de>, "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net>
wrote:

> <bearclaw@cruller.invalid> wrote in message
> news:bearclaw-2CBFC1.06134717052004@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com...
> > In article <2gra34F5tnadU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Next step . . . do away with programming completely and run ADS for
> > > programming 24 hours a day, interspersed with commercials of course.
> >
> > You forgot the most profitable step: charge more for receiving it.
>
> I didn't forget it, it's already been done, multiple times. I was just
> suggesting a new way for the networks to make money, something they haven't
> tried YET. :)  -Dave
>
>

Actually, they have--they're called home shopping networks. Pure profit,
virtually no production costs.
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 5:57:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

>
> Actually, they have--they're called home shopping networks. Pure profit,
> virtually no production costs.

Oh Yeah! Forgot about that. So that's the shape of things to come, eh?
Pretty soon all we're going to have for programming is hundreds of 24/7
shopping channels, selling televisions so you can watch shopping channels.
:)  -Dave
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 7:41:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:

>> >What about the logos that go ANIMATED all over the frickin' screen in the
>> >middle of the best part of your favorite shows? Yeah, like I really want
>to
>> >watch my show with dancing dinosaurs IN THE FOREGROUND. -Dave
>> >
>>
>> Yes, and apparently visual distraction isn't enough for these folks -
>> some networks have added sound to make sure you don't miss their
>> animations.
>
>Next step . . . do away with programming completely and run ADS for
>programming 24 hours a day, interspersed with commercials of course.
>:) 

I take it you haven't seen the TV Guide Channel.
;-)



joemooreaterolsdotcom
Anonymous
May 17, 2004 9:15:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

On Mon, 17 May 2004 04:12:08 -0400, "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:

>
>"Curmudgeon" <gary@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:vjWpc.28194$z41.18970@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>> No...but you can set your brightness and contrast to the proper levels to
>> assure you no burn in.
>> I promise you that, in any "class action suit" the stations will be able
>to
>> prove that sets properly set up will not show burn in.
>>
>
>Ummmm . . . thinking of a gentle way to say this, but you don't know what
>you are talking about, then. Most people don't know how to adjust
>brightness and contrast correctly. I do, as I am PAID to know (among other
>things) how to properly adjust brightness and contrast. BUT, you can set
>brightness and contrast correctly OR NOT. Won't matter. Any image that is
>visible on a TV can be burned into that TV, if that image is displayed long
>enough. -Dave
>

For some values of "TV", sure - but certainly not ALL.
Anonymous
May 18, 2004 1:07:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

> > > Does that mean we can turn the bug off to prevent burn-in? -Dave
> >
> > Yes, see that "Channel" and "OFF" button on your remote?
>
> Of course!!! Turn it off and leave it off! No burn-in problem. What a
> BRILLIANT idea!!! I wonder why I didn't think of it? -Dave (come to think
> of it, I'll never drive the car again . . . that way, nobody will rear-end
> me ever again. Safety first!)

Ridiculous analogy. A more astute one would be "Even though I know
it's dangerous to drive without wearing my seatbelt, I'll continue to
not wear one, and when I get injured, I'll blame the car company and
start a class action lawsuit".
Anonymous
May 18, 2004 3:01:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

I posted this once before in relation to a similar thread, but it seems
appropriate to post again here...

My stepfather has a 5 year-old Pioneer Elite 510, a fairly expensive
set, which he has also had professionally calibrated. I went over to
his house about 6 months ago and pulled off the glare screen to clean it
for him. After putting it back on, we all saw something in the lower
1/4 of the screen that I at first thought was some kind of smudge or
dirt I missed. After taking the glare screen off again to clean it, it
became evident that it was burn-in on the screen itself, bad enough to
be evident when the set is completely off. Once we new that and looked
close enough, it was fairly easy to see that it was the local news
station's "banner" that is often across the bottom of the screen,
containing their logo, name, and occasional headlines or weather info.

Now, this is a fairly expensive set, and as it has been calibrated, and
I've seen the picture myself, I'm 100% confident that the contrast or
black level settings are not overly high. And certainly my stepfather
doesn't watch this one news station 24 hours a day. Yet, this "banner"
is now permanently etched into his screen.

So anyone thinking that it's not possible, or even probable, for station
logos to cause screen burn-in are kidding themselves.
Anonymous
May 18, 2004 10:02:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

thank you.....now...don't you feel just a little pissed that it happened due
to some stupid jerk at the station?

Mango
"Morbius" <ive_been_mugged@takethisout.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b13ef723d01b8a8989684@news1.prserv.net...
> I posted this once before in relation to a similar thread, but it seems
> appropriate to post again here...
>
> My stepfather has a 5 year-old Pioneer Elite 510, a fairly expensive
> set, which he has also had professionally calibrated. I went over to
> his house about 6 months ago and pulled off the glare screen to clean it
> for him. After putting it back on, we all saw something in the lower
> 1/4 of the screen that I at first thought was some kind of smudge or
> dirt I missed. After taking the glare screen off again to clean it, it
> became evident that it was burn-in on the screen itself, bad enough to
> be evident when the set is completely off. Once we new that and looked
> close enough, it was fairly easy to see that it was the local news
> station's "banner" that is often across the bottom of the screen,
> containing their logo, name, and occasional headlines or weather info.
>
> Now, this is a fairly expensive set, and as it has been calibrated, and
> I've seen the picture myself, I'm 100% confident that the contrast or
> black level settings are not overly high. And certainly my stepfather
> doesn't watch this one news station 24 hours a day. Yet, this "banner"
> is now permanently etched into his screen.
>
> So anyone thinking that it's not possible, or even probable, for station
> logos to cause screen burn-in are kidding themselves.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.676 / Virus Database: 438 - Release Date: 5/3/2004
Anonymous
May 18, 2004 11:24:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

<bearclaw@cruller.invalid> wrote in message
news:bearclaw-2CBFC1.06134717052004@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com...
| In article <2gra34F5tnadU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net>
| wrote:
|
| > Next step . . . do away with programming completely and run ADS for
| > programming 24 hours a day, interspersed with commercials of course.
|
| You forgot the most profitable step: charge more for receiving it.

You'd think with our new found ability to label all the channels ourselves with
these new-fangled TV sets, that after a while, the networks could take their
station ID bugs off the air! And I am really perturbed by these pop-up ads when
the movie comes back on after 5 minutes of commercials. I just got done watching
5 minutes of commercials, now you want to put them on top of the movie too?
Isn't this against the law? Subliminal advertising within a movie? If McDonald's
started advertising when the movie came back on, who do I sue because I gained
weight?!? I want "food advertising blocking" available on my TV. Yes, rate the
commercials so I can have my TV go BLUE (or screensaver mode with my very own
favorite jpegs) whenever there is a food commercial on the channel I am
watching. Better yet, have my TV go BLUE throughout the 5 minute commercial
break, and come back on when the show starts again! There could be two timers
showing how long the commercial break has been, and how much longer it is
expected to last, while I stare at the blue screen. But the colon on the timer
might burn-into the screen too. Hmm. What about Shopping Network shows with
their timers? Do they burn-in on new TV's?

I do believe the station bugs can be a source of TV burn in, and it would
behoove us (or the TV manufacturers) to start a class-action suit against those
damn bugs before they do some real damage to TV sets everywhere. The new TV sets
have specific warnings about burn-in susceptibility, and I believe the station
bugs violate the warranty of the TV sets being sold nowadays.
Anonymous
May 21, 2004 6:32:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

Steve K. wrote:
>>> Will this burn in on my HD TV set?
> I'm not as worried about burn in as I am annoyed at stations like FOX
> KTTV-DT here in LA where they have TWO HUGE station ID's on all the time
> and they are well within the main part of the frame (not at the edge).
> Absolutely ridiculous!

Isn't the standard FOX bug the one with the rotating b/w FOX and the US flag?
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk ..."
-till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
consul@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com ((remove the INVALID to email))
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 10:45:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Badger <Cferriola@triad.rr.123numbers.com> wrotenews:WaKpc.49104$jU.2882442
@twister.southeast.rr.com:

> Rick wrote:
>> Most of these logos are semi-transparent, which should
>> prevent any burn-in (unless by some miracle, the background
>> behind the logo stays black or another single color for many,
>> many hours at one time).
>>
>> The "logos" that drive me nuts are the ones that completely
>> replace the lower portion of the screen (e.g. SpikeTV,
>> when they first came on the air).
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>
> If you can see the logos, they WILL burn in both CRT and plasma
> technology. They may not do it as quickly as solid logos, but they will
> eventually.
> I don't understand why they don't move the damn things around instead of
> leaving them in one spot.
> Clay
>

I don't understand why they all feel in the last few years they all have to
jump on the same bandwagon and piss off the majority of their viewers?

People ware watching less and less tv every year, and yet these tv people
come up with more and more annoying habits to make sure we watch less and
less tv.

The swooshing "news alert" noises, the digital mouse click noises on NGO
and A&E made me stop watching them.
Scrawl, and the worst, is inserting tiny promo windows of a future show, in
the middle of the damn show you're watching!
I get so mad I've almost thrown my remote at the screen.

Then I say to myself "Self, do I really need this aggrevation? Self?
Wouldn't I be better off building a book case or reading a book or cleaning
my car?". And I usually turn it off.

I stopped watching "Lost" the first episode because of that. A couple of
little annoyances and they lost a customer-eyeball for life.

--
---Mapanari---
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 10:51:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrotenews:2gra34F5tnadU1@uni-berlin.de:

>> >What about the logos that go ANIMATED all over the frickin' screen in
the
>> >middle of the best part of your favorite shows? Yeah, like I really
want
> to
>> >watch my show with dancing dinosaurs IN THE FOREGROUND. -Dave
>> >
>>
>> Yes, and apparently visual distraction isn't enough for these folks -
>> some networks have added sound to make sure you don't miss their
>> animations.
>
> Next step . . . do away with programming completely and run ADS for
> programming 24 hours a day, interspersed with commercials of course.
>:)  -Dave
>
>
>

The sad thing is, that they will still have a significat market share to
stay in business.
I mean, how does HSN and the other 20 all night shopping networks stay in
business?

Some day, the internet broad pipes will be big enough to put free
programing on the net, and broadcast TV and their insane desire to destroy
their own format will be history.

--
---Mapanari---
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 10:52:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

bearclaw@cruller.invalid wrotenews:bearclaw-2CBFC1.06134717052004
@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com:

> In article <2gra34F5tnadU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Next step . . . do away with programming completely and run ADS for
>> programming 24 hours a day, interspersed with commercials of course.
>
> You forgot the most profitable step: charge more for receiving it.
>


Or do what the liberals did in many states with insurance car laws...make
laws mandating that you have to pay for it, wether you need it or want it or
not.
--
---Mapanari---
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 10:56:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrotenews:2grse0F64tb3U1@uni-berlin.de:

>
> <bearclaw@cruller.invalid> wrote in message
> news:bearclaw-2CBFC1.06134717052004@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com...
>> In article <2gra34F5tnadU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Next step . . . do away with programming completely and run ADS for
>> > programming 24 hours a day, interspersed with commercials of course.
>>
>> You forgot the most profitable step: charge more for receiving it.
>
> I didn't forget it, it's already been done, multiple times. I was just
> suggesting a new way for the networks to make money, something they
haven't
> tried YET. :)  -Dave
>
>
>

I'm still waiting with baited breath for the "Fox Execution Live" channel.

Executions live from around the world! Today, 42 Chinese are shot in the
head while rich white American wait patiently in nearby hospitals for their
already picked out organs to be transplanted! See beating hearts and
quivering livers ripped out of still shivering bodies!

Tomorrow, at 10pm EST, 9 am Congo time, watch 400 Congolese ex Hutu
soldiers rape and disembowel UN refugee camp women and children! Brought
to your by Proctor and Gamble, the man's manly soap maker of fine soaps for
effeminet men!



--
---Mapanari---
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 10:56:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,misc.consumers,misc.legal (More info?)

This discussion has been addressed many times with absolutely no resolution
other than not watching any programmes which include the banners, logos,
etc. To Absolutely assure that you do not incur the "Burn In". However, in
the real world, the broadcasters, media producers, etc apply their
technologies to include the logos in the products they produce. We just have
to live with it and modify our viewing habits to miminize damage to our
products.
"Mapanari" <whosthat@anonmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96AC13C252FD1mapi@216.168.3.64...
> "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrotenews:2grse0F64tb3U1@uni-berlin.de:
>
>>
>> <bearclaw@cruller.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:bearclaw-2CBFC1.06134717052004@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com...
>>> In article <2gra34F5tnadU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Next step . . . do away with programming completely and run ADS for
>>> > programming 24 hours a day, interspersed with commercials of course.
>>>
>>> You forgot the most profitable step: charge more for receiving it.
>>
>> I didn't forget it, it's already been done, multiple times. I was just
>> suggesting a new way for the networks to make money, something they
> haven't
>> tried YET. :)  -Dave
>>
>>
>>
>
> I'm still waiting with baited breath for the "Fox Execution Live" channel.
>
> Executions live from around the world! Today, 42 Chinese are shot in the
> head while rich white American wait patiently in nearby hospitals for
> their
> already picked out organs to be transplanted! See beating hearts and
> quivering livers ripped out of still shivering bodies!
>
> Tomorrow, at 10pm EST, 9 am Congo time, watch 400 Congolese ex Hutu
> soldiers rape and disembowel UN refugee camp women and children! Brought
> to your by Proctor and Gamble, the man's manly soap maker of fine soaps
> for
> effeminet men!
>
>
>
> --
> ---Mapanari---
August 8, 2005 11:03:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 06:45:47 -0000, Mapanari <whosthat@anonmail.com>
wrote:

>Badger <Cferriola@triad.rr.123numbers.com> wrotenews:WaKpc.49104$jU.2882442
>@twister.southeast.rr.com:
>
>> Rick wrote:
>>> Most of these logos are semi-transparent, which should
>>> prevent any burn-in (unless by some miracle, the background
>>> behind the logo stays black or another single color for many,
>>> many hours at one time).
>>>
>>> The "logos" that drive me nuts are the ones that completely
>>> replace the lower portion of the screen (e.g. SpikeTV,
>>> when they first came on the air).
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>>
>>
>> If you can see the logos, they WILL burn in both CRT and plasma
>> technology. They may not do it as quickly as solid logos, but they will
>> eventually.
>> I don't understand why they don't move the damn things around instead of
>> leaving them in one spot.
>> Clay
>>
>
>I don't understand why they all feel in the last few years they all have to
>jump on the same bandwagon and piss off the majority of their viewers?
>
>People ware watching less and less tv every year, and yet these tv people
>come up with more and more annoying habits to make sure we watch less and
>less tv.
>
>The swooshing "news alert" noises, the digital mouse click noises on NGO
>and A&E made me stop watching them.
>Scrawl, and the worst, is inserting tiny promo windows of a future show, in
>the middle of the damn show you're watching!
>I get so mad I've almost thrown my remote at the screen.
>
>Then I say to myself "Self, do I really need this aggrevation? Self?
>Wouldn't I be better off building a book case or reading a book or cleaning
>my car?". And I usually turn it off.
>
>I stopped watching "Lost" the first episode because of that. A couple of
>little annoyances and they lost a customer-eyeball for life.


I was watching the news on the plane crash in Toronto the other day
and the bottom third of the screen was populated with logos, graphics
and news crawls so badly that you couldn't see the plane at all.
Are they out of their minds?
Thumper
August 8, 2005 11:03:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 06:51:43 -0000, Mapanari <whosthat@anonmail.com>
wrote:

>"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrotenews:2gra34F5tnadU1@uni-berlin.de:
>
>>> >What about the logos that go ANIMATED all over the frickin' screen in
>the
>>> >middle of the best part of your favorite shows? Yeah, like I really
>want
>> to
>>> >watch my show with dancing dinosaurs IN THE FOREGROUND. -Dave
>>> >
>>>
>>> Yes, and apparently visual distraction isn't enough for these folks -
>>> some networks have added sound to make sure you don't miss their
>>> animations.
>>
>> Next step . . . do away with programming completely and run ADS for
>> programming 24 hours a day, interspersed with commercials of course.
>>:)  -Dave
>>
>>
>>
>
>The sad thing is, that they will still have a significat market share to
>stay in business.
>I mean, how does HSN and the other 20 all night shopping networks stay in
>business?
Lots and lots of shoppers.
Thumper
>Some day, the internet broad pipes will be big enough to put free
>programing on the net, and broadcast TV and their insane desire to destroy
>their own format will be history.
!