Me <--- Noob - My first build 0_0 How do things look?

[architecture1]

Primary Uses: FormZ, Sketchup, Photoshop (files up to a Gig), Gaming, Playing DVD's (not so much editing them)
After a whopping 2 days of research, I have the following:


GIGABYTE 965P-DQ6 (rev.2.0) Motherboard

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6700 CPU

Corsair TWIN2X2048-8500C5 DDR2 800 (2 Gigs Total)

OCZ ProXStream 1000W PSU

Thermaltake Armor LCS VE2000BWS Case (Liquid Cooled)

Gigabyte GeForce 7950 GT GV-NX795T512H-RH Video Card

Western Digital Raptor WD1500AD SATA/150NCQ 150GB 16MB Cache Hard Drive

undecided on Optical Drive

Would Windows Vista be a mistake?



Does this make sense to do, or should I give up? My goal is to upgrade to Quad Core when it becomes more affordable. Other future plans are doubling the Memory and adding an external or another internal Hard Drive.

I don't mind getting smacked around for mistakes as long as you let me know what the mistake is.

 

[zjohnr]

Speaking for myself, I'm just confused about where you're coming from and where you want to go. Would you mind posting some details about your current system?

At the moment I'm just not sure why you've starting off with an e6700 and DDR2-1066 RAM and a 1000W PSU. The apps you outlined don't seem to demand the hardware you're thinking about.

Also ... all that high cost hardware and yet no 8800GTX video card?

-john, the ostensibly clueless redundant legacy dinosaur

 

[architecture1]

I forgot to note that I plan to add a second Gigabyte GeForce 7950 GT GV-NX795T512H-RH Video Card shortly after I get things up and running. Once I get the hang of the LCS I'd like to upgrade the liquid cooling.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[architecture1]

zjohnr,

I'm comming from a really old computer that runs on coal and wood (j/k but close).

I want to be able to run a couple of applications at once, such as Photoshop (monster file) and FormZ animation rendering.

I might be taking the wrong approach, but my initial thoughts were to get a little bit ahead of the curve so I won't have to upgrade as much later.

What is the cost and performance difference between the Gigabyte GeForce 7950 GT GV-NX795T512H-RH Video Card and the 8800GTX? Is the 8800GTX better? Is that the substitution you would recommend, given the sytem?

Thx

 

[zjohnr]

I want to be able to run a couple of applications at once, such as Photoshop (monster file) and FormZ animation rendering.

I might be taking the wrong approach, but my initial thoughts were to get a little bit ahead of the curve so I won't have to upgrade as much later.

Well, here's my thoughts and speculations for what they're worth.

Some of the components you picked ... the really fast RAM and the intent to go with water cooling ... seem to scream that you're going to overclock and do it with a vengeance! Yet at the same time you're getting an E6700 which runs faster at stock speeds rather than getting, say, an E6600 and overclocking it. No reason per se not to buy the E6700. I'm just used to people having limited funds and deciding to spend less in one area so they can spend more in another area.

As for buying ahead ... I'm just not sure how well that works in practice. Usually you pay a big premium to buy extra performance now. And if you're not going to use it now, you can usually get even better performance for less money by just buying what you need now and then upgrading later. That seems particularly true for CPUs and DDR2 RAM at the moment. In particular, Intel is expected to cut prices around May of this year when they also introduce some new CPU's.

So possibly for now, just go with the E6600 and get 4GB of just DDR2-800 RAM? You won't be able to use more than 3GB of the RAM with XP, but Vista should be able to see it all. The extra RAM is likely to help speed up your photoshop large file processing more than buying a slightly faster CPU would. (I think ... I'm sure if I'm wrong about that others will point it out).

As for Vista ... it sounds like you'd want to go there so you can address 4GB or more of memory. But probably best to not jump in immediately. Wait and see what luck other people have with it?

What is the cost and performance difference between the Gigabyte GeForce 7950 GT GV-NX795T512H-RH Video Card and the 8800GTX? Is the 8800GTX better? Is that the substitution you would recommend, given the sytem?

Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to give advice on video cards due to gross incompetence in that area. But I'm sure someone else will jump in. I was just confused because these days some flavor of the 8800 card is often included in system configs with the hardware you picked out.

-john, the ostensibly clueless redundant legacy dinosaur

 

[architecture1]

I am a sponge in your presence, zjohnr. Thx for the wisdom on the E6600, RAM, and Vista. I'll keep my eyes open for 8800 card advice.

 

[zjohnr]

Thx for the wisdom on the E6600, RAM, and Vista.

No problem ... and possibly no wisdom. Wait and see what "the others" have to say once they weigh in.

BTW, do you have a budget number in mind or is the money not really an issue for you you?

-john, the ostensibly clueless redundant legacy dinosaur

 

[yakyb]

I forgot to note that I plan to add a second Gigabyte GeForce 7950 GT GV-NX795T512H-RH Video Card shortly after I get things up and running. Once I get the hang of the LCS I'd like to upgrade the liquid cooling.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

i wouldnt bother with SLI just get a 8800 gts from the outset you'll be set for the next couple of years that way where a with the 2x7950 gt you'll be one step behind in anything you play

 

[Apple_Fritters]

I'm in agreement with zjohnr. I'm not sure if you were going to over clock or not, but some of these components are overkill unless you do.



GIGABYTE 965P-DQ6
Gigabyte 965P-S3 will save you $90

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6700
Core2Duo E6600 will save you $190

Corsair TWIN2X2048-8500C5 (2 Gigs Total)
Corsair DDR2-800 will save you $130 w/ rebate

OCZ ProXStream 1000W PSU
I don't do power supplies.

Thermaltake Armor LCS VE2000BWS Case (Liquid Cooled)
Cases are a personal preferance, but you don't need watercooling.
This case won't be quiet either, it has 5 fans.
Regular versions of this case are $100 less

Gigabyte GeForce 7950 GT
Let's drop this card for now. ~$250 saved.

Western Digital Raptor WD1500AD
Very speedy harddrive, costs around $200. Keeper.

You have an extra $760 to spend.

$200 for another Raptor.
$550 for 8800GTX

And you can still overclock this setup if you want, just buy a quality heatsink.

 

[architecture1]

Originally I was thinking that I would over clock, but I think my reason for overclocking might be misguided. Zjohnr was speaking of overclocking as a means of saving money, making complete sense. I, being a noob, was thinking it would simply make any gaming, 3D, or Multimedia perform far better (but i don't really know).

Regarding the Video Card, BFGTech 8800 GTX Water Cooled Edition Video Card looked like it would be a step up.

What I would like to do is position myself with a good basis for upgrading in the future, but I'm not sure if I am putting together components that might not work well together. I am not as concerned with cost, unless I can save money in a way that makes a better system.

Thx.

 

[Apple_Fritters]

With a good heatsink, the system I recommended will hit 3.6GHz on a 400MHz FSB. That will make you very happy.

Some people OC because they have small budgets, others OC because they have big budgets. Go figure.

The best upgrades to the above configuration would be Quad cores and an even faster video card than the GTX. But I'd wait atleast a year or two.

If you get Vista (not this year), then buy another 2Gig of RAM.

 

[sillywabbit]

Since you plan on upgrading to Quad Core, i would save some cash and start with a cheaper chip. I would get the 6400 and overclock it for now saving yourself about $300. Either bank that $300 for the Quad Core in the future or use it in other areas of your computer.

 

[architecture1]

Here is a revision:


GIGABYTE 965P-DQ6 (rev.2.0) Motherboard

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6600 CPU (overclocked)

Corsair TWIN2X2048-8500C5 DDR2 800 (2 Gigs Total)

OCZ ProXStream 1000W PSU

Thermaltake Armor LCS VE2000BWS Case (Liquid Cooled)

BFGTech 8800 GTX Water Cooled Edition Video Card

Western Digital Raptor WD1500AD SATA/150NCQ 150GB 16MB Cache Hard Drive

undecided on Optical Drive

Windows XP



Anticipated Upgrades:

Quad Core

Windows Vista (after bugs are worked out)

2 more Corsair TWIN2X2048-8500C5 DDR2 800 (to bring Memory total to 4 gigs)

2nd BFGTech 8800 GTX Water Cooled Edition Video Card (to bring # of Video Cards to 2)

2nd Western Digital Raptor WD1500AD SATA/150NCQ 150GB 16MB Cache Hard Drive (to bring total hard drive space to 300GB)



Is there anything that I am lacking, or anything that could be inefficient within the system? I'm okay with overkill for the 3D work or Gaming needs at this time, as long it I am not using components that will amount to no real change in performance. Budget is not as big a concern, but I love to hear about how i can save money in light of my future plans for the computer.


Thx. You guys rock.

 

[zjohnr]

I'm tempted to start one of those long, rambling replies that, in the end, never really ever say what I thought I was going to say. But I'll try to take the more prudent course and try just asking some questions first to try to better understand what it is you want and why you want it.

First question. You apparently have your heart set on going with water cooling. Why?

Now, a large part of the reason I'm confused about this is because I personally would not touch a water cooling system if I had another (adequate) choice. And with today's processors there are plenty of more than adequate air cooling solutions available.

So, why the strong desire to go with water and (overly) complicate your life? Especially for a first build ... :?: :!: :?: :?


-john, the ostensibly clueless redundant legacy dinosaur

 

[architecture1]

I'd say i chose liquid cooling for the following reasons:


I believe some of the web pages that liquid cooling is more effective in lowering temperatures of components. I'm still not 100% certain.

It seems challenging...new and interesting.... I guess there's something exciting about the prospect of having a really effective cooling system. I'm a designer and a perfectionist. Right or wrong, I think i might consider it to be a step down if I don't use liquid.

Curiosity is a factor. New frontier 4 me.

Perhaps the Noob factor has prevailed. I will admit, I don't really know what maintenence means when it comes to liquid. I think I could use a little bit of a reality check from somebody that has had problems with liquid cooling. Perhaps I'm "drinking the sweet antifreeze" and nobody's around to tell me why I shouldn't, lol.

I am really motivated, but not really informed. I can't tell you how much I appreciat this kind of forum and all the input.

 

[zjohnr]

It is also my understanding that liquid cooling is more effective than air. That would be why people move to liquid cooling when they've reached the limits of what can be done with air cooling, no? It's the "move on to" part of this that I'm focusing on.

Liquid cooling seems a bit much to take on for a first build. We all learn to walk. Many of us later in life then also learn to dance. I think there are few, if any, of us who learned to dance while learning to walk.

I'm suggesting you consider whether you've decided to "move on" to liquid cooling when you don't even know yet how well air cooling would work for you. Another approach could be to take this project in steps. Start with air cooling and get your system up and running that way. Once you've got that experience under your belt you'll be in a better position to decide about moving over to liquid cooling.

And if/when you do move to liquid you'd start from a base level of knowing that your system components work. This is no small thing. You'll also have a better idea of what it is like to work inside a case to route power and data cables and to install/remove components. I'm guessing these things can only get more complicated when you also have to install and work around coolant tubing and a pump and a radiator.

-john, the ostensibly clueless redundant legacy dinosaur

 

[zjohnr]

Another question. Are you thinking of using SLI? I notice you list a 2'nd video card as one of your anticipated upgrades so it looks like that's the direction you want to move in.

Unfortunately, the Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 motherboard does not officially support SLI. It supports CrossFire which is ATI's version of SLI. So if you installed two Nvidia 8800 GTX video cards into the GA-965P-DQ6 what you'd get is two separate video cards rather than the co-processing monster you might be anticipating.

If you are thinking of going with a motherboard which officially supports Nvidia SLI, then at the moment you'll need to go with one using an Nvidia chipset. For example, you might want to consider the EVGA 122-CK-NF68-AR nForce 680i SLI ATX motherboard.

-john, the ostensibly clueless redundant legacy dinosaur

 

[architecture1]

The cooling comments make sense.

About the Video Card, who is the king of the ring these days? Is it undoubtedly Nvidia or is ATI equivalent. What does the future bring?

 

[zjohnr]

About the Video Card, who is the king of the ring these days? Is it undoubtedly Nvidia or is ATI equivalent.

I don't game so I don't really know anything about high-end video cards. At the moment I think the Nvidia 8800 is the top card. However, ATI has their version of a DX10 capable video card coming out ... sometime this year. (Don't really know when it is expected). A lot of people are very curious to see how it will perform in comparison to what Nvidia has.

Maybe take a look at some of the basic video overview articles like this Tom's article? The Best Gaming Video Cards for the Money: January 2007. FWIW, there is a table giving a rough performance comparison ranking of a lot of the currently available cards on the last page of that article. It might be useful to you.

-john

 

[architecture1]

I'm going to think a bit more about the water cooling and overclocking in general. You have brought up many important areas i need to consider in my configuration. I'm also going to do a bit more research on video cards to see what makes the most sense; I may even change out my mobo if it seems that Nvidia is the way to go. Thx !

 

[architecture1]

I am going to try overclocking, never done it before. I have decided to pass on Liquid cooling for now. This is the revised system. All comments welcome, except regarding the WD Raptor and Samsung SH cause I just bought those. Everything else is on the drawing board.


Motherboard
GigaByte GA-965P-DQ6 (rev. 2.0)
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2422&ModelName=GA-965P-DQ6

CPU
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6600 CPU
http://indigo.intel.com/compare_cpu/default.aspx?familyID=1&culture=en-US

Graphics Card
GigaByte GV-NX795T512H-RH
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2390

Memory
Corsair TWIN2X2048-8500C5 DDR2 800 (2 Gigs Total)
http://www.corsair.com/corsair/products/specs/TWIN2X2048-8500C5.pdf

Hard Drive
Western Digital Raptor WD1500AHFDRTL SATA 150GB 16MB Cache Hard Drive
http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=190

Case
Thermaltake Armor VA8003BWS
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/product/Chassis/fulltower/armor/va8003bws.asp

PSU
PC Power & Cooling SILENCER® 750 QUAD
http://www.pcpower.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=S75Q

Optical Drive
Samsung SH-S183L
http://www.samsung.com/Products/OpticalDiscDrive/DVDWriter/OpticalDiscDrive_DVDWriter_SH_S183L.asp?page=Specifications

OS
Windows XP
www.microsoft.com


Future Upgrades

Quad Core
(2) R600
(additional) 2 Gigs RAM
(additional) WD Raptor X
Liquid Cooling
Windows Vista

 

[slavadon]

I am going to try overclocking, never done it before. I have decided to pass on Liquid cooling for now. This is the revised system. All comments welcome, except regarding the WD Raptor and Samsung SH cause I just bought those. Everything else is on the drawing board.


Motherboard
GigaByte GA-965P-DQ6 (rev. 2.0)
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2422&ModelName=GA-965P-DQ6

CPU
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6600 CPU
http://indigo.intel.com/compare_cpu/default.aspx?familyID=1&culture=en-US

Graphics Card
GigaByte GV-NX795T512H-RH
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2390

Memory
Corsair TWIN2X2048-8500C5 DDR2 800 (2 Gigs Total)
http://www.corsair.com/corsair/products/specs/TWIN2X2048-8500C5.pdf

Hard Drive
Western Digital Raptor WD1500AHFDRTL SATA 150GB 16MB Cache Hard Drive
http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=190

Case
Thermaltake Armor VA8003BWS
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/product/Chassis/fulltower/armor/va8003bws.asp

PSU
PC Power & Cooling SILENCER® 750 QUAD
http://www.pcpower.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=S75Q

Optical Drive
Samsung SH-S183L
http://www.samsung.com/Products/OpticalDiscDrive/DVDWriter/OpticalDiscDrive_DVDWriter_SH_S183L.asp?page=Specifications

OS
Windows XP
www.microsoft.com


Future Upgrades

Quad Core
(2) R600
(additional) 2 Gigs RAM
(additional) WD Raptor X
Liquid Cooling
Windows Vista

The most glaring bad choice to me is the WD Raptor X. Either get 2 now so you can RAID them or don't get any, which would be my recommendation. For the price you'd pay for 2 of them you could get two 500 GB seageate 7200.10. Sure, they'd be slightly slower, a few seconds of load time, but you'd end up with 700 GB more space. Meh, I got my raptor and I'm disappointed with it, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I regret the space I lost by buying an "ultra fast drive of uberness." Oh...you already bought the Raptor. Well it's not too late to make your second drive a 500 GB Seagate 7200.10. That might be the best compromise anyway. OS and games on the raptor, movies and music on the Seagate.

Another poor choice is probably that 7950 GT. I don't really understand where you're going in the graphics card department. What size screen are you using that you NEED 2 R600s or G80s? Anything less than 1600x1200 is a waste, and 1600x1200 probably won't see a huge increase.

Anyway, even if you go with a CF or SLI setup, don't buy that 7950 GT. Buy a Radeon X 1900 (1950) XT or Radeon X 1900 (1950) PRO. ATI dominated the final series of DX 9 gfx cards, and either of those cards will cost you 200ish and outperform the 270ish 7950. You might even consider a cheaper solution, since you'll only be using it for a month or two until the R600 comes out.

You'll find that the best air cooling, a Tuniq Tower 120, will cover all of your OCing CPU needs if you're new. Liquid and other exotic types of cooling are for extreme enthusiasts, and usually for bragging rights as much as performance increases. The one spot you might wish you had liquid cooling is in an SLI or CF config of two high end DX 10 cards...Those are going to be hot and you're going to want to point some side fans at them and make sure your airflow is adjusted correctly for them.

Everything else looks good.