Consensus on Purevideo vs. AVIVO

juggernautspot

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Hey guys got another question for you all. Don't know if this has already been discussed, looked around a bit but have to go to work and figured I would give it a shot so when I get back some answers could be waiting (hopefully).

Ok, I currently just build a new C2D build kick bottoms I am loving the increase in performance, but one problem. To save money I kept my 7600gt gpu, but gaming on my 1680x1050 monitor causes my card to choke up a bit when trying to run the games at their best. I would love to upgrade to the x1950xt to get the extra performance out of my games, but I have one big concern.

That is AVIVO, not only is my computer used for gaming, very little school work, but also HD movies. Currently w/ Purevideo decoders installed everything looks/runs great on my 7600gt, but I haven't heard such great things w/ regards to AVIVO. Like lesser image quality (not by a significant amount), and that it basically only accelerates H.264 files nothing else.

It is of massive importance that if I go ahead and buy this card (x1950xt) that AVIVO will allow me to use hardware acceleration on MPEG2, VC-1, H.264, and whatever else I might have missed.

If anybody can point me in the right direction, or have personal first hand experience in the matter any comments would be awesome.

I am struggling w/ the upgrade decision, as I know more dx10 cards are on the horizon, but dx10 probably won't be needed/used for at least another year or more. What are your guys opinions, upgrade now to the x1950xt and hold on to it for 1-2 years, wait a while longer and see what affordable dx10 cards come out (>$300). Decisions decisions.

Thanks again guys.
 

juggernautspot

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Read both of these already, but I guess I am more interested in whether or not AVIVO actually accelerates anything but H.264.

Maybe I should just get a 7950gt and call it good, then I would still be w/ my beloved purevideo, but games would be nice on the x1950xt.
 
READ the reviews.

CPU useage shows you what is accelerated, and ATi has less CPU useage than nV's GF7 series, the GF8 series now matches the ATi X1K CPU useage. Here's the X1K vs GF7 numbers;
http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=253&Itemid=27&limit=1&limitstart=8

As for the image quality they are basically equal, with both doing different things better. Read Cleeve's review and decide which features you're most likely to use. Even the one difference noted in Cleeve's review (Sharpening) is actually a feature that can be enabled in ATi's MediaCentre player, but their implementation isn't the same and it's not extended to other players.
 

juggernautspot

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READ the reviews.

CPU useage shows you what is accelerated, and ATi has less CPU useage than nV's GF7 series, the GF8 series now matches the ATi X1K CPU useage. Here's the X1K vs GF7 numbers;
http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=253&Itemid=27&limit=1&limitstart=8

As for the image quality they are basically equal, with both doing different things better. Read Cleeve's review and decide which features you're most likely to use. Even the one difference noted in Cleeve's review (Sharpening) is actually a feature that can be enabled in ATi's MediaCentre player, but their implementation isn't the same and it's not extended to other players.

In doing some more research I found a site that seems to contradict what the link you posted said.

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?id=2161&cid=11&pg=1

anymore ideas or opinions, should I just use the 7600gt until the mind range dx10 cards come out ~March?

Thanks again guys for putting up with my madness.
 

kmjohnso

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That review says the H.264 and VC-1 gpu acceleration is slightly better on the 7600GT that the x1600. H.264 comparisons will be different depending on the compression ratio. ATI does better with lower and Nvidia does slightly better with higher. Neither does particularly well at reducing CPU load. If you buy a x1950xt you will likely be on par with you 7600gt, for video encoding. Image quality should be the same. Gaming is where you would see the difference. Do you plan on gaming on watching HD?
 

juggernautspot

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I do about the same amount of both, my only concern is that AVIVO will only hardware accelerate the H.264 files and not VC-1 & MPEG2, that would be a big problem.

I have heard that "use hardware acceleration" option in some programs in disabled when using an ATi card, that is what I am mainly worried about, but as the links show AVIVO does reduce the stress on the CPU pointing me to the direction that even though the option in the program is disabled the card is accelerating the decoding of the file.

Maybe my logic is wrong? Should I just wait, looking at some reviews of the x1950xt mainly (http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.aspx?articleid=908&cid=2) i see that the x1950xt outperforms the x1900xt in every test done, but when looking at this review (http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/VGA/HIS_X1950XT_IceQ3/index.htm) I see that the x1950xt only beats out the x1950 pro by a few frames.

This is the problem, when comparing the x1900xt to other cards, and comparing the x1950 pro to other cards in tomshardware vga charts @ 1600x1200 resolution for games there is a very large difference between the 2 cards (x1900xt vs. x1950 pro) which card does the x1950xt actually compare too. If it is the x1950 pro then I will stick with Nvidia, but if it is the x1900xt ATi looks to be the best bet.

Again sorry for the rambling and nonsense, I just built my new system and am looking at spending no more that $300 for a new card to compliment it.

Thanks for all of your time and help. I won't reply for a while again, because I am unfortunately off to work again.
 

kmjohnso

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I would say the x1950xt is slighltly better than the x1900xt, due to higher memory clocks. If you are questioning your purchase, just wait. Things only get faster/cheaper.
 
I do about the same amount of both, my only concern is that AVIVO will only hardware accelerate the H.264 files and not VC-1 & MPEG2, that would be a big problem.

Where did you read it ONLY accelerates H.264 and not MPEG2 ? Seriously re-read even the review you posted, you are skimming and missing alot. MPEG 1 & 2 decoding acceleration has been included going back many generations for both ATi, Matrox, nVidia and S3 and MP4 acceleration was added in the past few years, the focus on H.264 is because it's the recent addition, along with improving de-interlacing features too.

I have heard that "use hardware acceleration" option in some programs in disabled when using an ATi card,

That's one application, by the company that helped develop PureVideo. :roll: That's a CyberLink issue, and they said they'd fix it, while telling consumers that 'some drivers' work. Which really means, they have only enabled the recognition of hardware acceleration of X1K cards in the drivers their hardware recognizes. And then with both not using hardware acceleration then the AVIVO software outperforms nVidia's Purevideo. Since they know and acknowledge that fact you'd think they would've tried another app like Showtime or WMP. Review like that one that KNOW they have an issue yet still proceed make me wonder what the motivation is, a little guidance? Why not solicit an explanation from Cyberlink or dig a little deeper first?

Again sorry for the rambling and nonsense, I just built my new system and am looking at spending no more that $300 for a new card to compliment it.

For ~$300 either wait for the GF8800GTS 320MB to launch at that price or else get a cheap X19xx or GF79xx series card (don't pay over $200 for that generation).
 

rechicero

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I have another concern, and I think it's important. It looks like all the image improvement algorithms (and fit-screen algorithms) of PowerDVD or WinDVD are disabled when you activate AVIVO hardware accel. So, you can't use almost none of the functions of these programs. Is it the same with NVIDIA?

I don't understand how an issue as big as this wasn't worth mentioning in the recent article...
 

rechicero

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Ah, and by the way, if we forget the issue I've talked about above, the quality of AVIVO is outstanding. With Nero Showtime the upscaling of DVDs is incredible. I've compared it with 720p and I can't tell the difference in a 42" HD plasma display.
 

rechicero

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You'd have to be more specific about which features are disabled, and then the source. Also like Cleeve mentioned in his review, sometimes you have to dig a little in both solutions in order to enable all the features.

Yeah, I know. The problem is that a lot of options are disabled when you check the hardware accel. They turn "grey" when you activate hardware acceleration.

In WinDVD

Smart Stretch, all Video Effects

In Power DVD

CLEV, CLPV, Read-It-Clearly

The problem is simple, if you activate Hardware accel, all these options go "grey", disabled. If you disable Hardware accel, you can use them. So, you have to choose: hardware accel or software goodies.

I can live without CLEV and similar image enhance effects, but Smart Stretch-CLPV is a must have if you have 4:3 sources and a 16:9 display. And I'd like to use the Read-It-Clearly feature too... English is not my native language and I like to watch almost everything with english subtitles.

And thanks for answering! ;-)

PS: I insist, other than that, the quality of AVIVO is far better than any medium range DVD I've seen (as Pioneer 696) and probably as good as (or better) than the high-end 600-900$ DVD players.
 

juggernautspot

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Where did you read it ONLY accelerates H.264 and not MPEG2 ? Seriously re-read even the review you posted, you are skimming and missing alot. MPEG 1 & 2 decoding acceleration has been included going back many generations for both ATi, Matrox, nVidia and S3 and MP4 acceleration was added in the past few years, the focus on H.264 is because it's the recent addition, along with improving de-interlacing features too.

I have read that AVIVO only accelerates H.264 files, sometimes MPEG2, and currently can not do VC-1 files from a forum on a site that I can not list here. Lets say this AVIVO problem has many of them complexed.

For ~$300 either wait for the GF8800GTS 320MB to launch at that price or else get a cheap X19xx or GF79xx series card (don't pay over $200 for that generation).

Great advice here, I have heard these will be out around March? Is this correct?

PS: I insist, other than that, the quality of AVIVO is far better than any medium range DVD I've seen (as Pioneer 696) and probably as good as (or better) than the high-end 600-900$ DVD players.

My concerns do not extend to medium range DVDs but purely HD video instead. Does this change the performance of the decoders?

READ the reviews.

In reading the reviews I have seen that Purevideo decoders offer slightly more video quality, less CPU usage, and (with personal experience) accelerate all of the file types listed previously [all HD files as that is the only video files I am concerned with atm]. I am not interested in reviews but peoples personal experiences with the two decoders and what the outcomes have been. A company can say something will do said function but in reality does it hold up, that is what I am asking, not purely for someone to recite and shorten the Purevideo vs. AVIVO reviews.

I am aware that with time all of these issues will be panned out, but I am a true blooded American, we want things now not tomorrow. That being said it looks as if it is in my best interest to wait it out until the dx10 cards become more main stream. Until then I found a handy little utility called ATiTool that will allow me to overclock my 7600gt relatively easily. Will be tinkering with that to get some added performance out of the card I already have.

Thanks again guys for all of your time and thoughts, being new to this whole thing I truly appreciate your input. Everyday I learn something from someone in this great online community.
 

mpjesse

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I am not interested in reviews but peoples personal experiences with the two decoders and what the outcomes have been. A company can say something will do said function but in reality does it hold up, that is what I am asking, not purely for someone to recite and shorten the Purevideo vs. AVIVO reviews.

Well, my personal experience with PureVideo is that it SUCKS. My advice: don't waste your money.
 

kmjohnso

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And I love VIVO. Makes things look very nice with PowerDVD 7, and that with an x850 XT. Imagine how bloated an opinion I might have with the x1950xtx... but I'm holding off until my I can't play my games at acceptable levels.
 
In WinDVD

Smart Stretch, all Video Effects

Don't use WinDVD anymore, can't speak to it unfortunately.

In Power DVD

CLEV, CLPV, Read-It-Clearly

Well the first two are related to the software layer playback, and actually they are not supposed to be available on any solution when playing back protected HD content, it's not just AVIVO/AMD-ATi that has this issue. It's even in PowerDVD's FAQ;
PowerDVD supports CLPV and CLEV on regular DVDs. We will provide CLPV and CLEV support on Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD in later versions.

I can live without CLEV and similar image enhance effects, but Smart Stretch-CLPV is a must have if you have 4:3 sources and a 16:9 display. And I'd like to use the Read-It-Clearly feature too... English is not my native language and I like to watch almost everything with english subtitles.

Never bothered with 'read-it-clearly' because the times I do need subtitles usually they are incorporated into the movie stream itself, which is affected by the edge recognition and enhacement in both AVIVO and PureVideo. Interesting that it would be disabled though.

PS: I insist, other than that, the quality of AVIVO is far better than any medium range DVD I've seen (as Pioneer 696) and probably as good as (or better) than the high-end 600-900$ DVD players.

Yeah I think this is an area too often missed, I think that both PureVideo and AVIVO offer far better quality playback than any upscaling DVD you'd find in Best Buy etc. Only truely dedicated systems would surpase the interlacing portion, but would not be as flexible IMO for other enhacements. And with M$' external HD-DVD selling for so cheap and supported on HDCP compliant setups, it's really attractive to start using all these enhacements to their fullest (although likely not as impactful as cleaning up crappy transfers of some DVDs).
 

rechicero

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CLEV, CLPV, Read-It-Clearly

Well the first two are related to the software layer playback, and actually they are not supposed to be available on any solution when playing back protected HD content, it's not just AVIVO/AMD-ATi that has this issue. It's even in PowerDVD's FAQ;
PowerDVD supports CLPV and CLEV on regular DVDs. We will provide CLPV and CLEV support on Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD in later versions.

No, no, I was referring to DVD playback. I see you have PowerDVD. When you mark the check box of Hardware Acceleration in Power DVD, what happens with the CLEV option just beneath? Try it without any content active.

In my machine, this option goes grey. Disabled no matter the content. In fact, you can't change the hardware acceleration check box if you are replaying some content...
 
No, no, I was referring to DVD playback. I see you have PowerDVD. When you mark the check box of Hardware Acceleration in Power DVD, what happens with the CLEV option just beneath? Try it without any content active.

In my machine, this option goes grey. Disabled no matter the content. In fact, you can't change the hardware acceleration check box if you are replaying some content...

I'll take a look, but I think IIRC that may be related to the 'overlay issues' with PowerDVD.
 
I have read that AVIVO only accelerates H.264 files, sometimes MPEG2, and currently can not do VC-1 files from a forum on a site that I can not list here.

Why can't you list it here? Post this information, because the hardware itself has accelerated it for years for all companies, and some fanboi on some forum saying otherwise will not change that, and it makes it look like FUD.

Lets say this AVIVO problem has many of them complexed.

Let's not an say you tried. :roll:

Either back up this FUD with fact or else stop unwittingly (hopefully) spreading it by repeating stuff you read from a site, you can't link to, which is obviously feeding people false information if they say there's no MPEG2 support at all.

Also, like I said BOTH have their various issues, but without additional information to back up these claims that go against all the other imperical evidence, and the stated support of the IHVs, then this just sounds like someone feeding you BS on that other site.

The GTS-320 should be out in a few weeks (likely early March), and that would be the best solution as it has better functions than the X1K and GF7 series, and has a more programmable core so would even have a better future path, and also likely the only thing to give you an improvement over your current situation. Of course if you're worried about 1080P HDCP you may want to look into whether or not they added dual-link HDCP support yet.

I am not interested in reviews but peoples personal experiences with the two decoders and what the outcomes have been. A company can say something will do said function but in reality does it hold up, that is what I am asking, not purely for someone to recite and shorten the Purevideo vs. AVIVO reviews.

You aren't interested in reviews and then you say you want people's personal experience because the companies can lie. Well guess what so do alot of people. Reviewers have far more to lose by lying than individuals in a forum, that's why we said read credible reviews, they are going to be the best source of unbiased information. Also, fully READ the reviews and don't fill in the blanksbecause they don't mention something don't assume it is or isn't there, find out.

I am aware that with time all of these issues will be panned out, but I am a true blooded American, we want things now not tomorrow.

What does American have to do with that? If you want it TODAY and not tomorrow, then move to Taipei, as Taiwan is far ahead fo the US for getting their hands on tech early.

Until then I found a handy little utility called ATiTool that will allow me to overclock my 7600gt relatively easily. Will be tinkering with that to get some added performance out of the card I already have.[/quote]

Since you already have a GF7600GT, then stick with it if you don't need to upgrade for games. It has access to ALL of the features that PureVideoHD offer offers the GF7 series, it's only the GS that's crippled. Keep the GT and then move to the next gen cards when you NEED it, since the accleration is dependant on core logic right now the difference between a fast GF7600GT and a 10mhz slower GF795GT would favour the GF7600. So unless you get a GTO or GTX, you're likely harming your situation as the portion dedicated to HD acceleration is not doubled in the GF7900 vs 7600. Andat the price of a GTO or GTX, get a GF8800 series card which will offer far more (although some of it's features are currently broken to [easier to make a work around though with it's level of programmability]).

No real reason to move to AVIVO from a GT unless there's something you know you need, and moving to another GF7 seems pointless, so it seems there's really only one path for you IMO.