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Please help me figure this out.

Last response: in Networking
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September 2, 2006 5:36:36 PM

I have a SMSWBR14G router conneced to 3 PC's on the lan.. I have 2 ISP's cause one of em offers a LAN (ie I can connect to other users of the same ISP in my city) The other ISP is cause I get amazing download speeds.. Basically I have the other ISP for internet surfing and downloading.. My friend is also connected to my network and we use the LAN providing ISP for gaming purpose and downloading stuff on local hubs..

NOw my question to you is, is it possble to set up the network in such a fashion so that I wldnt have to replace the wires every time i wanted to use a different ISP..

The problem is my friend at times requires the web for work, so every time that happens I have to reconfigure my router to different setting change wires reboot.. It becomes really tideous coz he is quite demanding lol..

I wanna know if there is any hardware that will lemme use both the ISp at the same time.. Or anything else that will lemme control this process through software..

Right now I have 2 lan cards on my comp.. every time I have to make a switch I plug one of the ISp wan port to my comp other to the router.. UNless I want to use the same service as my friend is at that point of time. In which case i just use the router..

I am really sorry If i have missed out any bit of crucial information which will help you give me a solution.. But I need one at the earliest coz this is driving me crazy..

More about : figure

September 2, 2006 10:00:38 PM

There are several routers that allow for 2 WAN (isp) connections. They are capable of doing load balancing. They are not cheap though. One is a Netgear FVS538 VPN Bussines Class Router.
September 3, 2006 4:10:58 AM

You're gonna have to help me understand this network thing the ISP has. I'm not understanding why you couldn't do the same thing with any ISP, assuming the person you want to connect to has the same ISP.

To answer your original question I'd need to know how the "network" thing works as far as IP addresses you get, etc. What I'd probably end up doing is using two routers. One for each ISP. Set the router connected to the "Internet ISP" as your default gateway. On that same router, set a static route for whatever subnet is used for the "Local ISP" and set the gateway to the IP address you assigned to the "Local ISP" router. I know none of that is going to make sense, but maybe if you could provide a copy of the output from ipconfig /all from both ISPs I could help you more. A link to the website of the ISP that has this special local connection thing would be helpful too.
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September 3, 2006 6:39:42 AM

@Blue68F100

Thanks for the quick response. I did consider the dual wan port router but in the end I figured that the extra cost is just not worth it. If nothing works I might trade in my router for the dual port router u suggested, also I wld like to know whether using that router will enable me to chose the ISP for my connection. Forgive me, for my understanding on the subject is limited, I was under the impression that dual wan port router basically add up the speed to provede a higher bandwidth line.. The only programs benefiting from such connections are download managers and anything else that uses more than one connection to connect.. Can I assign a computer to connect using just one of the ISP's only, using this router? That way I will more or less achieve what I want.

@Fredweston

I am sorry for not having provided those details earlier..

ISP 1 Iqara boradband (Internet providin ISP.. gr8 service gr8 speeds)

IP 203.109.79.***
subnet 255.255.255.128
Default Gateway 203.109.79.129

Prefered DNS 203.187.192.12
Alternate DNS 203.187.192.15

ISP 2 Sify broad band (The LAN w/Internet providing ISP-crappy service and speed)

IP 10.40.183.164
Subnet MasK 255.255.255.0
Default Gatewat 10.40.183.1
Primary DNS 202.144.115.4
Secondary DNS 202.144.10.50


Now with the sify connection I can change my IP range to a suitable range to connect to local hubs without any restrictions but for the internet I have to stick to the IP address they provided.. While that is not possible with Iqara. Iqara generates a static IP which is registered to the mac address of the LAN card and modem..

I have asked the Iqara help desk abt the LAN, they say its against company policies and that it has been blocked in the backend... I have tried pinging my friends IP to get only request times out response.. I know I shd try doing it by changing my IP range but I have no clue abt the IP ranges Iqara provides.

The only way to access they sify website, as far as i know, is thru an IP. Also this IP can only be accessed once you get a connection from their end. I think the web site is there on a local machine.

Iqara ---- www.iqara.net
September 3, 2006 7:57:46 AM

Ok.



Router 1 is connected to Iqara. You would configure the WAN side for whatever IP address they give you, or DHCP if that's what they want you to use. Everything else on this router is normal so far.

Router 2 connects to Sify, and you change the LAN IP to 192.168.1.2 and disable the DHCP server so it doesn't conflict with Router 1. For the WAN on router 2, you put in whatever static IP you normally use.

Now back on Router 1, you add a static route that looks something like this:
10.0.0.0/8 gateways to 192.168.1.2. This says that any traffic destined for any IP address 10.x.x.x gets forwarded to Router 2.

This should work. If you only have 1 computer then you really shouldn't need a second router. Just plug the modem from Sify into one of the LAN ports on Router 1 and use static addressing instead of dynamic, and specify two IPs on the PC like so:

192.168.1.10/255.255.255.0 default gateway 192.168.1.1
10.40.183.164/255.255.255.0 with no default gateway

Then add a static route from the command prompt:
route add 10.0.0.0 mask 255.0.0.0 10.40.183.1 -p

If you have more than one PC at either location, then you may need the second router depending on how many PCs Sify allows you to have connected.
September 3, 2006 7:22:49 PM

I cannot quite express my gratitude. Thanx a lot for your troubles but you will have to bare my ignorance a little more...

I forgot to mention one more detail. Sify does not have a modem just a cat5 cable.. I have to use a dialer to get connected to the net.. I think that cable comes from a local switch/hub, not sure..

Now the solution you gave will it work even if there is no modem for sify??
I didnt quite understand the part abt adding a static route. How do I go abt doing that in my router??

OH and I have to change my Ip range evry now and then while connected to sify coz sify doesnt allow connetion between same IP ranges..

eg 10.12.152.* cannot connect to another PC with 10.12.152.* one of the PC's will have to change the IP to another range like 10.10.248 or something.. NOw that you know I have to change my IP's every now and then wat sort of steps will I have to take to ensure falwless connectivity..

Quote:
This should work. If you only have 1 computer then you really shouldn't need a second router. Just plug the modem from Sify into one of the LAN ports on Router 1 and use static addressing instead of dynamic, and specify two IPs on the PC like so:

192.168.1.10/255.255.255.0 default gateway 192.168.1.1
10.40.183.164/255.255.255.0 with no default gateway

Then add a static route from the command prompt:
route add 10.0.0.0 mask 255.0.0.0 10.40.183.1 -p


will I have to make changes in that step everytime I change my IP range??

When u say that 'add two addresses' (if only one pc is there) on the PC, you mean I have to have alternate address on my LAN card??

Also if its not a lot to ask for, coz i know this is almost like spoon feeding for which I am really embarrassed, can you walk me through the procedure a lil more explicitly. Thanx once again for the response and helping me out.
September 4, 2006 4:40:56 PM

I'm a little confused when you say the Sify just comes in on a cat5 cable. That cable has to come from somewhere, and it has to be less than 300' away. Are you in an apartment complex or dorm or something?

Regarding the IP range, I'm not sure how their infrastructure is laid out, but I'd just try to pick something obscure that nobody else would be using. If you have to change your IP range, then you would have to change your IP addressing.

If you only have one PC, then it's not too bad. Actually, you don't even need a router now that I think about it. Just connect your Internet ISP to one network card and Sify to the other. On the Internet NIC, set it up however you normally would. On the Sify NIC, use whatever IP you normally would but don't put anything in for a default gateway. Instead, create a static route for whatever network you're on and point it to Sify's router.

Something like:

route add 10.0.0.0 mask 255.0.0.0 10.40.183.1

This sets up your Internet like normal, and tells your computer than any traffic destined for 10.x.x.x needs to be routed through Sify.

Again, I'm not sure what you mean when you say you have to constantly change the IP range you use. How do you determine what your default gateway will be when you change the IP range? For the numbers you initially gave, the above should work.
September 5, 2006 6:07:27 AM

Sify offers a MB's based plan.. I am not exactly sure my self how their system works but i shall try to explain in brief.. The cat 5 wires are distributed via 'network switches'. These switches are placed no more than 300' distance from one another. The layout is primitive I know but thats how they distribute there internet service.. I do stay in a apartment complex and to avail sify' service I have to use a dialer found on their web site.

Now the IP range comes into play only when accessing local HUB's.. I have to change both the IP and default gateway.. Suppose I am using 10.12.37.* as my ip then the default gatewaty will be 10.12.37.1 . Thats how we change the IP ranges to access HUb's. To access a hub on address 10.12.37.169:411 I will have to chose a different IP range like 10.12.152.* and gateway 10.12.152.1 .. The network traffic isint monitored on the lan and does not affect the internet usage plan in anyway.. To use internet I have to stick to the IP sify has provided and cannot change that..

I have 3 computers on the lan.. 2 of mine and 1 of my friends.. Hence the router.. Since we share the internet cost,I have no choice but to abide by his wishes :cry: 
September 5, 2006 3:36:37 PM

So are you saying the dialer is only used if you want to access the Internet?

Quote:
To access a hub on address 10.12.37.169:411 I will have to chose a different IP range like 10.12.152.* and gateway 10.12.152.1


Honestly, I don't see how they're making this work. I can't figure out how they're working their routing. I guess I can't really help you any more. :( 
September 5, 2006 3:56:19 PM

Lolz looks like I am really confusing you wid every consequent post.. Iqara offers me the standard unlimited broadband plan (512kbs).. Sify, since my only interest is its LAN, I have opted for the least or bare minimum they are offering. That happens to be the limited of MB's plan.. My best guess is that the dialer logs the traffic used and converts em into MB's something like that..

OK forgetting all the lil complications I mentioned, can you tel me how using just one router can I use the services of both my ISP's.. One being primarily only for internet and the other one for the LAN.. I am really sorry for the lack of technical jargon in defining wat I already have..

I really appreciate your help.. Thanx again.

I really hate having to switch wires every time I wanna use a different service..
September 5, 2006 6:36:37 PM

Well, I can tell you how you can do it without physically changing cables. As far as the whole deal with having to change IP ranges, you're on your own. :) 

Get a router with a built in 4 port switch. I am going to assume a Linksys router since those are pretty standard, so any router IP you see, if your router IP is different, substitute yours.

Now take your Internet modem and connect it to the WAN port on the router.

Connect your three PCs to the LAN ports on the router.

Connect your Sify cable to the fourth LAN port on the router.

I'm assuming that you automatically get an IP from your Internet ISP, if so then you don't need to do anything special to set up the router to use it. On the other hand, if they give you a static IP or if you have to use a username and password, then you will need to log in to the router from one of your PCs (see instruction manual on how to do this) and set up the WAN configuration manually.

Now, go into the router and disable the DHCP server. Technically you should be able to leave this on, but since I'm not sure how the whole Sify thing works, I'm not sure if the router would broadcast DHCP information onto the Sify network. So, to be safe we'll turn it off.

Now on each of your PCs we need to set up the IP addresses manually.

For each PC, we'll assign two IP addresses. The first IP address will be for the Internet ISP. Use 192.168.1.X with subnet mask 255.255.255.0 and default gateway 192.168.1.1. X should be a number between 2 and 254 and must be different for each PC. Also configure the DNS addresses as 203.187.192.12 and 203.187.192.15 (addresses you initially said you were using).

At this point, you should be able to get on the Internet from all the PCs.

Now, again on each PC, we're going to configure a secondary IP address. Use whatever IP address and subnet mask you would normally use to connect to Sify. Obviously each PC will need a unique IP address, and I'll leave it to you to decide what you need to use. Note that with the Sify IP address, we're not configuring a default gateway. This is so the default route points to the Internet ISP.

Finally, on each PC, add a static route to tell it to send traffic destined for 10.0.0.0/8 out over Sify.

[code:1:0147e606ba]route add 10.0.0.0 mask 255.0.0.0 10.40.183.1[/code:1:0147e606ba]

I'm going based on the 10.40.183.164 address you gave earlier. Just change the 10.40.183.1 address in the code above to whatever default gateway you need to use.

Now you should be able to get on the Internet, and access the Sify network. The static route will disappear when you reboot your PC. If you want to make it persistent, add "-p" to the end of the command. You'll need to remove that route and add a new one on each PC each time you change IP ranges.

Hope that helps.
September 6, 2006 1:22:18 PM

Just one question. When you refer to the second IP address does it mean the alternate IP address tab that comes in the ip config??? I know you must be really frustrated trying to explain this to the likes of anewb like me and I am extemely sorry for that.. But am I on the right track...

Here is my IP config after folloowing the steps u gave..



I know I have messed up some where :oops:  [/img]
September 6, 2006 3:26:25 PM

It should be "route add", not "add route". The solution I was giving uses only one NIC card, it looks like you are trying to use two. You shouldn't be using DHCP at all on any computers, specify the IPs manually.

And no, you don't want the alternate configuration. Click the advanced button and you will see a screen that lets you add additional IP addresses. You can't use it if you have DHCP enabled, so you will need to turn that off first.
September 18, 2006 4:52:10 AM

Sorry I couldn't let you know about my status before on account of the downtime I was facing with sify. Anyways the networks workinh now.


@Fred Dude you are a genius man it helped, but there is a slight problem. My comp is detecting a network on the lan port after I add the ip adresses like you asked me to, in the tcp/ip settings. I was able to connect to one hub, but i cldnt swap files or do anything nor was I able to connect to the internet. I was told at that time more than 4 hubs were working. Anyways I also noticed that on adding the static route my Lan card was showing the sify IP and gateway as deafult in the (double click icon---->status)


Is there something wrong that I am doing?? Thanks a lot for your help I wouldnt have been able to progress so far. On a side note can you suggest some books I can read on Networking, I'd like to learn
September 21, 2006 5:08:33 PM

Umm, I'm not sure why it would show the Sify gateway as default since you shouldn't have made it the default gateway anywhere.

And what do you mean by your PC is "detecting a network"?
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