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agp 8x card

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January 25, 2007 12:43:00 PM

I want to buy an AGP 8X video card but I can't decide what to buy.I curently have a Geforce 4 MMX on an Athlon XP 1800+, 512 Mb of RAM and an AGP 4X motherboard.Can anyone suggest a decently priced card ?

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January 25, 2007 12:55:34 PM

What does 'decently priced' mean?

You could try looking at the 6600GT cards.
January 25, 2007 12:57:42 PM

actualy more like 9600
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January 25, 2007 1:02:07 PM

Not to be rude, but you won't see much performance since you're still using AGP 4x. Either get an AGP 8x mobo and then card, or upgrade all together. Otherwise, I don't think your purchase will be well justified.

I have a Pentium 4 2.0A GHz @ 2.66 with an ATI 9600XT on an AGP 4x motherboard with 1 gig of DDR 266MHz. I've ran the card on an AGP 8x and noticed a slight increase in performance. Overall, todays graphic cards will be held back by the slow bus of AGP 4x. This computer now serves as a CS:S, BF2, BF2142 server.

Just my $.02.
January 25, 2007 1:12:43 PM

Quote:
Not to be rude, but you won't see much performance since you're still using AGP 4x.

He won't notice a difference between 4X and 8X, even in benchmarks.
January 25, 2007 1:15:54 PM

*scratches head*

Then wth is the point of having AGP 8x is AGP 4x was sufficient enough???
January 25, 2007 1:20:54 PM

To sell new hardware.

It's true, there isn't all that much difference.

IRT to the original poster, you would get a huge improvement over that MX card with even something like the 6600 or as said a 9xxx series card. You could even get a 7600gs for $125 though I don't really think that would be worth the price in that machine. [or that 7300 linked above for $80 after rebate, or here's a 6600gt for $90 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
January 25, 2007 1:21:45 PM

I've had the same problem and the guys at my favourite local computer shop recommended a $45 GeForce MX 4000. That was the best card they could think of that still made sense on AGP 4x, even after I told them I was willing to spend up to $300.

There are cards like X1950Pro that support AGP but they won't work at their full potential on 4x. The CPU may also bottleneck them.
January 25, 2007 1:27:11 PM

Not to be rude, but you dont know a damn thing. Its been proven many times over that 4x and 8x make little if any difference.

I have a 1950pro agp on a 4x slot, and I get great marks.
January 25, 2007 1:27:15 PM

All respect, I think they are wrong and I've used cards at 4x and gotten good results.

Here are the AGP charts from 2005 that show cards you should look at. Find a game you like to play and check out the results. Then, you can look at the latest chart comparing the 7300gt and the 6600gt, using the game Prey.
January 25, 2007 1:43:06 PM

The only situation where you may see a difference (and likely a very small one) were if you were using one of the more powerful AGP cards, like the X1950 Pro or 7800GS, at high res. and settings maxed out (which you can't really do with 512Mb RAM). Definitely no difference in framerates if you're looking at practically any budget graphics card.
January 25, 2007 1:50:59 PM

Quote:
*scratches head*

Then wth is the point of having AGP 8x is AGP 4x was sufficient enough???

What's the point of PCI-E 16X then? No card uses all 16 lanes.

Don't know why, maybe they put it out "in case" something needed the lanes.

They get people to buy more expensive hardware that way, like the SLI mobos with "true" 16 lanes on both slots. Even though they make no difference compared to 2 x 8X, people will pay the extra few bucks.
January 25, 2007 2:01:48 PM

Quote:
Not to be rude, but you dont know a damn thing. Its been proven many times over that 4x and 8x make little if any difference.

I have a 1950pro agp on a 4x slot, and I get great marks.


Well, thank you for enlighting me.
January 25, 2007 2:02:54 PM

Quote:
*scratches head*

Then wth is the point of having AGP 8x is AGP 4x was sufficient enough???

What's the point of PCI-E 16X then? No card uses all 16 lanes.

Don't know why, maybe they put it out "in case" something needed the lanes.

They get people to buy more expensive hardware that way, like the SLI mobos with "true" 16 lanes on both slots. Even though they make no difference compared to 2 x 8X, people will pay the extra few bucks.

Technology is gay!!! (in that case)
January 25, 2007 2:15:47 PM

Maybe PCI Express has all that capability because the industry won't be introducing another new bus system for quite a long time, so they created the potential for immense bandwidth. It is ironic though. Think about all the yuppies and well-heeled hipsters buying Core 2 Duo Mac Powerbooks so that they can blog, write emails, and move music onto their iPod. Who knows? Maybe PCI Express will never see its full bandwidth potential, but perhaps they create these industry standards to protect against potential limitations.
January 25, 2007 2:24:38 PM

I think AMD is going to move up to DDR3 and PCI Express Gen 2 this year... unless I read the article wrong.
January 25, 2007 2:33:24 PM

Someone said 9xxx. Don't get a 9000! I was able to pick up a Radeon 9550 for $30 or 40 after rebate that I use on a 4x board, PSU=300w. This is a slightly slower version of the 9600 that some people are able to open back up to 9600. C&C Generals is the most that I've thrown at it and it had no problems.

Be careful that your PSU has enough juice, especially if you're thinking of the X1950Pro. Sounds like you'll need at least a good 380 watt PSU to get that one to work.

The other idea is to find a used x800/850. 9800Pros can be had real cheap and they would be a good match to your present system.
January 25, 2007 2:35:46 PM

I looked arround the used video boards adds and I came across a 9550 GT for about 60 $.Should I buy it or get a new 9600\5500 256Mb.
January 25, 2007 2:50:54 PM

An x800XX and another 512mb stick O' ram would be my ideal upgrade for that rig King O' Crunk; yet it also depends upon the games you play.
January 25, 2007 3:16:02 PM

I agree with mr. blacken on adding another 512MB in there, but IMO with your CPU anything more than a 9800pro wouldn't really be worth it.
January 25, 2007 3:51:22 PM

Kaotao is right. The XP is going to fall short with most card above the 9xxx series.
January 25, 2007 4:12:16 PM

Quote:
Kaotao is right. The XP is going to fall short with most card above the 9xxx series.


Just to clarify that, his current XP may not get much boost from a higher card, but I have many 3200+ machines that run great with 6800gt and 7900gt cards, though the 7900's are definately reaching the end of those cpu's resources.
January 25, 2007 4:52:03 PM

The OP's got an 1800+. If he had a 3200+, I'd say go for it.
January 25, 2007 5:08:13 PM

Quote:
The OP's got an 1800+. If he had a 3200+, I'd say go for it.


That's what I said.

IRT topic, you could also find a 2500+ on ebay and maybe boost your system a bit more, if the board will support it. But, there is a point of diminishing returns on this current machine, so you have to decide if $200-250 is worth it to upgrade it, or to put it towards a new machine.

ADDED: I mean, if the MB would support it, one might consider this. Then add the $90 for a 7300gt or 6600gt, and another 512M for $50, and for 200 bucks you get a pretty nice boost in performance.
January 25, 2007 6:13:40 PM

Ok, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying.
January 25, 2007 7:02:41 PM

If you can afford it, now is as good time to build a new system, prices are lovely and low on almost everything, and your old system is pretty much at the end of its life anyways ;p
if ya cant then go for an 9800, as anything more would be bottlenecked by your CPU.
January 26, 2007 4:04:56 AM

Quote:
if ya cant then go for an 9800, as anything more would be bottlenecked by your CPU


Any AGP card more powerful than a ATi 9800 will be bottlenecked by his CPU? Prove it.
January 26, 2007 4:16:41 AM

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/10/agp-platform-ana...

Or you could draw on your own experiences of building computers, which should tell you that upgrading a graphics card in an old system never performs as well as the same graphics card in a new system with higher specs.
Not all games are going to be bottlenecked by CPU preformance but enough are that it should be a vaild concern. Also in that article the CPU is a XP 2500+ which as you should know is much less likly to prove a bottleneck than a 1800+.
January 26, 2007 11:53:48 AM

It's very much game/engine dependant too. But, you said that too.

In this first article, we wanted to see if an Athlon XP 2500+ would bottleneck today's newest AGP cards. It would seem that the answer is a resounding "sometimes". Depending on the game, some will bottleneck early, and others will give powerful cards like the X1950 PRO some legroom before limiting the maximum frame rate.

Because of everything already said in this thread, I would personally stick to something in the 6 series or mid 7 series nvidia cards, or the equivalent ATI product for that machine. I would also weight if any further platform upgrade would be good for my particular needs, like adding another 512M of ram and perhaps upgrade the processor if it is possible on that motherboard.

For less than $200 as I have shown above I think you could get a fairly decent upgrade in performance. It would of course depend on each individuals needs and if they were planning to build a completely new machine in the next year or so. For me, based on the games I like to play, the upgrade would be worth it for the cost. Your mileage may vary.
January 27, 2007 4:42:21 AM

Thanks for the help guys.I guess I'm gonna have to save a few bucks an get me a 6600 GT.
January 27, 2007 2:19:57 PM

None.

Buying a 16x SLI/XFIRE motherboard over a 8x SLI/XFIRE board simply because of that is a complete waste of money.

For example the 650i only offers 8x SLI the 680i offers 16x SLI, but the 680 is a £100+ more expensive, if the 16x is the only reason you would choose the 680i over the 650i then you have just thrown £100+ down the drain.
January 27, 2007 3:28:17 PM

Quote:
Thanks for the help guys.I guess I'm gonna have to save a few bucks an get me a 6600 GT.


You could try the 7300GT AGP. $113.99

($83.99 after $30.00 Mail-In Rebate)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150198


On the note about the 4x vs 8x. I had an AMD Barton 2500+ on a NF7s board (8x) and my buddy had a Asus (Somethen or other 4x) and we both had 9700Pro's back then. The benchmarks were identical nearly. As a matter of fact in some cases he beat me but I think thats because his cpu ran the test better overall.
There was nearly NO difference between systems with him being forced to run at 4x and me at 8x. The best benchmark at that time for us that "MIGHT" take advantage of the 8x was 3dmark 03.

I think the whole thing is is when your running any game and sock the resolutions up and turn on the pretty lights and just overall mustard, its only then that there "MIGHT" be a difference. Most games then didnt have (that I know of) textures that exceeded the 128mb's on the 9700pro. I dont know 100% and maybe someone here does, but I think the "ONLY" time that 8x even becomes (marginal) any benefit difference is when the textures are bigger than the ram on the card and it access's the data across the AGP bus at either 4x as apposed to 8x.

Don't sweat your 4x at all. It's absolutely nothen to worry about. :) 
a b U Graphics card
January 27, 2007 3:52:44 PM

Yeah, AGP 4X vs. 8X is not the issue. I've done alot of testing with a 6800U on the same rig but setting the bios to 4x. The difference is less than 1 fps average from what I found.

Anyway, the issue is most AGP 4X only mobo's also have a slower CPU and ram paired with them. That's where the bottleneck comes in which in this case XP1800+ /PC2100 will hurt performance. But that cpu and ram on an AGP 8X mobo would still hurt performance the same.

I'm still amazed how many people think AGP 4X will kill the performance compared to running 4X, yet they don't look at the bigger picture like a just what a slow AXP or a P4 Willy will do to the performance.
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